Not only they are easy, they are dumbed down to the extreme and, worst of all, they all show a regression, feature and options wise, from their predecessors.
Initially, MMORPG were conceived as a virtual extension of Role Playing, that is they catered to players that looked after an immersive RPG online experience - it was like an exclusivity for people that loved RPG and gaming and prioritized this hobby among their other hobbies. They were conceived to last for years and a subscription made sense as they were exclusive products for an exclusive audience.
A certain gaming company decided to expand their potential market base, catering to solo players that wanted to have their solo RPG experience in an online environment.
Catering to solo players for an online, social environment, that's crazy, right? The morally dubious ambition of making money on the short-term does not have anything to do with logic, much less with satisfying your target market (which is not the same as your potential market base). The current crap is just the consequence of a series of contradictions motivated by the rush of making money on the short-term (especially after Blizzard succeded in dragging a public alien to the RPG ethos). More or less:
- Trying to adapt RPG to people that don't want to know or don't understand what RPG is about --> No RPG anymore, just monster-slashing arcades.
- We design online games for people that don't like to be social --> dumb down the game to cater to the solo players. PVE and PVP segregation. Instances, compartmentalization.
- Catering to the "i don't have time for games" fallacy --> dumb-down, remove systems, be convenient to the point of having barebones of a game and a collection of minigames. And a chat.
- Catering to the "participation trophies", "Mommy: you're the best little Tommy!", "i deserve to have/see everything in the game" mindset --> Massive stupidization.
.... .... ....
Essentially, what we have now is the McDonalds model applied to MMORPG: directed to the masses for easy and rapid consumption, simple enough to not choke with it, in the best of cases it'll leave a sweet taste in your mouth that'll be quickly forgotten. You know, cause I'm a very important guy that don't have time to sit calmly and enjoy a properly cooked meal, much less bother to chew properly or even think about the menu! Rinse and repeat.
The perfect model for a hypocrite and entitled society with delusions of grandeur, that while always in a rush doesn't know where is going to.
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
it makes me laugh people go on and on about how easy game is!dev ask ,DID YOU CHEAT YOUR WAY TO MAX LEVEL!gamer?wtf of caurse everybody cheat in gaming!dev cover his eyes!
check the secret world,want to test someone skill for say doing puzzle?look no further!the thing is this stuff goes both ways,i got this quest in tsw this week basicly it was asking me a password the hint?its his wife name!i assume the dead women beside him is his wife!buzzer!wrong! first try I cheated.but when I read an ariticle about it I found out what was really going on!that war thingy going on between the tree faction?ya it include misdirection !I don't talk max level stuff here very low level.so imagine this at end game!understanding what you read is just not enough here .you got to research.they even supply the browser , I taught it was for show lol.the issue here is the first site showing if almost always the site with the solution.and I think the first page should be reserved for actual tsw wanted you to see.or maybe there is and I didn't see how it works yet!
but anyway ,game are rarely too easy out of the box ,like the coordinate thingy press f9 and you get it.but people got annoyred by it because a swarm of zombie were trying to kill them will they were trying to find whatemacallit!ya I call it cheating!it is possible true.but don't come complain game is too easy when you aren't using the ingame tool.you have only your self to blame!
but then after that we d get but its too hard!want to be spooked?try this
there is this quest called :in to the darkness in tsw !go try it for fun.dont cheat with gamma headlight or gun flare!now do the quest!ya very very spooky!it will bring the mood of the game.
this is why I love this game!if you play full mood.you cant play for very long in this game.you have to limit your self . I would say 2 to 3 hours max.not because the game isn't good but because the mood is dark I don't suggest more then 3 hour per day!
Most new MMO's still come with challenging gameplay. And if you can't find it in PVE, you can always find it in PVP. But some things have changed though imo.
- MMO mechanics are not new anymore. So we don't need much time anymore to get used to a game. which makes a new MMO feel a lot more familiar now. The odd thing is, that some players really like that, while other players think the opposite. The latter is looking for something new and original. This is not good or bad, just preference imo.
- The newer MMO's are more forgiving when you make mistakes. I don't know if this is a bad thing. For me personally it doesn't really matter. I don't need a harsh penalty to make me not want to die. I refuse to die in any game. And I only PUG once with ppl that zerg.
- Newer MMO's got rid of most of the inconveniences. Some players crave for long travel times in a huge world. No matter if that means they travel the same road back to a city 100 times. Other players don't have that time (or patience) anymore and prefer to skip that. Again something I don't see as bad or good, just preference.
In general I think that the main difference is that MMO's are not new anymore and there are not many secrets to discover anymore because of that.
Most new MMO's still come with challenging gameplay. And if you can't find it in PVE, you can always find it in PVP. But some things have changed though imo.
- MMO mechanics are not new anymore. So we don't need much time anymore to get used to a game. which makes a new MMO feel a lot more familiar now. The odd thing is, that some players really like that, while other players think the opposite. The latter is looking for something new and original. This is not good or bad, just preference imo.
- The newer MMO's are more forgiving when you make mistakes. I don't know if this is a bad thing. For me personally it doesn't really matter. I don't need a harsh penalty to make me not want to die. I refuse to die in any game. And I only PUG once with ppl that zerg.
- Newer MMO's got rid of most of the inconveniences. Some players crave for long travel times in a huge world. No matter if that means they travel the same road back to a city 100 times. Other players don't have that time (or patience) anymore and prefer to skip that. Again something I don't see as bad or good, just preference.
In general I think that the main difference is that MMO's are not new anymore and there are not many secrets to discover anymore because of that.
I agree with most except for the size of games. If you really look at the older games, the world size were really small - slow travel just made them look bigger.
First I think it should take longer to level. Most would respond to this with "then i have to grind all day." I think that the grind is needed. I prefer the grind over the, overly repeated but with a different color, quests/missions. Or at least enemies at you level should be a real challenge still.
Also each class should be more distinct and the class should always grow over time with different paths. there still needs to be a twist on some of the classes. Why cant a healer summon and summon a creature and send it out to assist in heals? Why cant melee characters use all weapons. MAYBE not only should there be character/class skills but a large chart of skills for each weapon to chose from and some you have to complete special training or quests to achieve.
Auction houses are nice but personal shops are better. They create the need for searches and travels for items. This makes the game more involved.
There needs to be more elements in the game such as actual 1 v 1 arenas, pet raising/training, casinos, or social areas were the chat only work if you are in that space.
With guilds there should always be battles over the control of territory. And guilds should become more powerful by completing guild jobs and quests. Guild also should grow based on the money put into them, like a company. Using experience to level a guild is to simple and you basically just play and watch it advance (no real involvement).
I have not read all comments, so excuse me if i repeat something.
Blatant advertisement for his own game aside, this is just idiotic for one main reason, people like casual games!!! Why should it be such a bad thing that MMO's were pulled out of the dark corner and shared with everyone, things change, evolve and move on, that is just the way of things.
I don't agree for one second that people that play casually don't stop to smell the roses, enjoy the scenery or take an interest in the lore, that is a very jaded view from someone trying to make a specific point to promote his own work as something on the opposite end of the scale.
OK, you may not agree with me or even like the idea of it, but WoW has had and still has millions of paying players. I played EvE for a while and never bought into the comments about it being a more 'hardcore' game, i had two accounts, was part of a fair sized corp at the time, spent time in 0.0 hunting in packs but the game was never difficult it just sucked the time out of my life which is why i left.
I used to dungeon run and raid in Vanilla WoW but for the same reasons i switched to casual play and i was far happier for it, both in game and in life. I can work all week, dropping in for an hour when i get the chance of an evening and then drop in for a few hours when relaxing at the weekend and i don't miss out on anything, if i want to quest, i quest, if i want to run a dungeon or raid i can do so through LFG if my guild is short of people, so i pay my money every month and get entertained as and when i feel like it.
To me, a game should be just that, a game, not a way of life or something i have to dedicate several hours at a time to just to complete a single quest. That is not to say that there isn't a place for the hardcore and those that enjoy it, it just isn't for me or millions of others.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
So, because you and Millions of others wanted MMOs to be changed it's OK that our MMO hobby got radically changed .just .to .please .your group??
No, it's not OK, no matter how you attempt to justify it.
Just realize that this genre was once the home of Players that wanted to spends hours and hours playing their MMOs because they loved them, because "Gaming" to them was more than just a "one hour" diversion and still IS.
We didn't like your Sports, or your Console Games, we didn't like your Golf and the Country Clubs, We didn't like to wander are Shopping or.... We liked our MMO Gaming circa UO and EQ and there was some stuff we wanted changed, but not THAT MUCH changed.
I didn't invade your real life hobbies and demand chages just to suit my tastes, but Blizzard invited You and millions of others into Our Hobby and YOU DID demand changes. It would have been great if you had accepted what was here without complaint or critisizm. Instead the "Masses" wanted most things changed and they didn't care what the original Players wanted at all.
So Sir, I will say it one more time. It was not OK to say MMO needed to be changed. It wasn't your Hobby, or you would have like it to begin with as it was.
Just think on that point a second or two.... if something is so "wrong" in your eyes that it needs massive change to make it fit what you think "should be", then why are you involved with it in the first place????
Do I blame you personally Shadoed? No I do not. I do however blame collectively everyone that has played MMOs and has Designed MMOs and demanded radical change.... it would be much better for everyone involved to create a new genre rather than compromise an existing one.
I think there is a differentiation between too easy and too simple. To me, easy refers to the difficulty level required to achieve certain tasks, where as simplicity refers to shallowness within game systems, and perhaps a lack of systems.
That said, I think most mmo are not necessarily too easy, but much too simple. I don't think it's a matter of themepark over sandbox, but rather an overall vision of what kind of players developers attract. Frankly, there are a lot more casual players than there are hardcore, so it's obvious why developers pander toward a particular audience.
Now a days there are a lot of kids playing that's why they should up the players age so nobody from age 18 below could play it these kids complains a lot even kid minded people
I'm just posting dont have to listen to me I'm just a normal guy with some normal thoughts
Ok, I must admit, not all of MMOs became easy. Just look at some of Asian/F2P MMOs. They are very, very, very hard. Only problem is that when you spent thousands of dollars, they become so easy.
I don't think that i said that MMO's or WoW in particular 'had' to be changed or 'i wanted' it changed, i was just lucky that the game changed to suite my new style of playing and the reason it changed was that the demand was there for it to change. If the overwhelming demand had been for the game to move to a more hardcore style of play i am sure Blizzard would have gone in that direction and i would have gone to find something else.
Gaming has been my hobby too since the 70's and i have enjoyed fantasy stuff since my parents got me the D&D red starter box, played Elite for days on end on the BBCB micro (hence my love for 'Earth & Beyond' and 'Eve') and was introduced to MUD back then, had my Sinclair Spectrum and spent happy hours wading through The Hobbit and Valhalla, moved on to my Atari ST and completed Dungeon Master after much toil and dying endlessly and when WoW came out i loved it from the off. In summary, i know what it is to love my gaming and i still do, it is as much my passion as yours, i just enjoy it in a different way these days but you think i should be locked out of my passion because it doesn't fit with the way you want things as well?
As for 'demanding changes' that is the natural course of any game and you even said yourself that you would have made changes. As i said above if the hardcore element had been the louder voice then i am sure Blizzard would have gone in that direction, but it wasn't, there were more casual players playing the game that seemed to want it to move in a particular direction and i am sure for commercial reasons that is why they went that way, i have loved the game good and bad and do not demand it moves in one direction or the other, i love it for what it is. Others it would seem though would have had it sit and go stale for years on end so as not to upset the status quo, well things just don't work that way in a commercial environment that games like this are these days, never have and never will.
Again, i do understand how you feel but this particular game has changed in a way that you don't like, so move on to something that does suit your play style. My father is a die hard AO fan, has been through WoW and been a successful raider, but will go back to AO time and again because it suits his play style much better. What i am saying is that i am sorry you feel that others spoiled your fun, but sometimes you can't keep the playground to yourself, others have the right to enjoy themselves too it is just unfortunate that it was not a game that you wanted to take part in.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
Seriously!? Since 2005 players complain about the described development and recommended to stop dumbing down MMOs and their mechanics. Now, Red 5s Mr. Kern hits the playback button to point to Firefall? Thanks for the advertorial.
So, because you and Millions of others wanted MMOs to be changed it's OK that our MMO hobby got radically changed .just .to .please .your group??
No, it's not OK, no matter how you attempt to justify it.
Just realize that this genre was once the home of Players that wanted to spends hours and hours playing their MMOs because they loved them, because "Gaming" to them was more than just a "one hour" diversion and still IS.
We didn't like your Sports, or your Console Games, we didn't like your Golf and the Country Clubs, We didn't like to wander are Shopping or.... We liked our MMO Gaming circa UO and EQ and there was some stuff we wanted changed, but not THAT MUCH changed.
I didn't invade your real life hobbies and demand chages just to suit my tastes, but Blizzard invited You and millions of others into Our Hobby and YOU DID demand changes. It would have been great if you had accepted what was here without complaint or critisizm. Instead the "Masses" wanted most things changed and they didn't care what the original Players wanted at all.
So Sir, I will say it one more time. It was not OK to say MMO needed to be changed. It wasn't your Hobby, or you would have like it to begin with as it was.
Just think on that point a second or two.... if something is so "wrong" in your eyes that it needs massive change to make it fit what you think "should be", then why are you involved with it in the first place????
Do I blame you personally Shadoed? No I do not. I do however blame collectively everyone that has played MMOs and has Designed MMOs and demanded radical change.... it would be much better for everyone involved to create a new genre rather than compromise an existing one.
You can blame others all you want, but things that truly work stands the test of time for ALL types of people. If they called the gaming you hate Casual Gamers Assembled genre, you know what would happen? Nothing, because no matter HOW YOU LABEL a game, people will play what they like. You claim the change is SO RADICAL, but at it's core, it still mimics an MMORPG.
Dumb Gamer => "Dang, CGA's have everything I want in a game and plays oddly similar to some of the MMOs...but I'll pass...because it's not called an MMO..." Your loss...
Dumb Developer => "Wow, CGA's are making a big hit. My ideas truly follow its line of thinking and direction 100%. But you know what, I guess I'll try to incorporate it into the MMORPG genre style. What? You mean you don't like what I created and not going to play it, MMORPG crowd? Say it ain't so..." Very much so, my friend...
Don't get mad a people for playing a game that fits them and don't get mad at developers who poured their time into developing a product others want to play. If you want to be upset, be upset at yourself and others like you for not being able to convince the people or developers that the gaming you enjoy is still worth putting time into.
Do you know why though? the "I don't have the time crowd." The same crowd that does not like Wpvp, long dungeons, tough raids, complex crafting, and progression.
They loooove jumping puzzles though.
I am getting so sick of the "I don't have the time" crowd. We get it, you are so busy with real life that you don't have time to play games. Okay, so then don't play them. They are and always have been something you do in your FREE TIME. So I don't understand why people bitch and say they don't have the time to experience all the game has to offer. Like yeah, so don't then if you don't have the time. Getting so sick of this complaint in the MMO genre.
Do you know why though? the "I don't have the time crowd." The same crowd that does not like Wpvp, long dungeons, tough raids, complex crafting, and progression.
They loooove jumping puzzles though.
I am getting so sick of the "I don't have the time" crowd. We get it, you are so busy with real life that you don't have time to play games. Okay, so then don't play them. They are and always have been something you do in your FREE TIME. So I don't understand why people bitch and say they don't have the time to experience all the game has to offer. Like yeah, so don't then if you don't have the time. Getting so sick of this complaint in the MMO genre.
No, you obviously don't get it.
Not having a lot of free time to spend playing games is not the same as having 0 free time to play games. And when a person has limited free time available they typically want to get right into the action and do something fun, not sit around waiting for group queues or other mundane activites.
It's like this, say you like to go to the shooting range on the weekend because --- you like to shoot guns. Crazy concept, right?
Now, say there are usually 45 people at the range who just show up for the day and rent a pistol for a small fee and begin shooting straight away (casuals). However, there are also about 5 people who always spend at least 30 minutes cleaning and polishing their privately owned weapons before they start firing at targets and occasionaly they will berate another shooter (player) at the gun range (in the game) for not taking the time to properly prepare themselves and their firearm before shooting (playing).
Most people with a CASUAL HOBBY just want to fire off a few rounds at some targets down range for an hour or two- not learn about ballistics, gun safety protocol, or the history of firearms. They'll jump through those hoops if necessary (safety protocol), but if they could avoid it they most likely would.
The hardcore players aren't wrong for enjoying the depth and nuances in a game or for wanting more of them, but they are wrong for expecting everyone else to accede to their demands and either play the game the way they do or leave.
Do you know why though? the "I don't have the time crowd." The same crowd that does not like Wpvp, long dungeons, tough raids, complex crafting, and progression.
They loooove jumping puzzles though.
I am getting so sick of the "I don't have the time" crowd. We get it, you are so busy with real life that you don't have time to play games. Okay, so then don't play them. They are and always have been something you do in your FREE TIME. So I don't understand why people bitch and say they don't have the time to experience all the game has to offer. Like yeah, so don't then if you don't have the time. Getting so sick of this complaint in the MMO genre.
There is a difference between 'Casual' and 'I don't have time', a very marked difference.
I consider myself a casual gamer these days, after having sunk lots of time into Eve 0.0 mining runs and WoW raids i decided that i wanted to dictate the time i play a game and not the other way around, that is the difference.
Of course i want to experience all a game has to offer, i just don't want it to dictate how i lead my life. If i have a free day i can get just as involved as i used to get and lose myself in the game completely for 10-12 hours at a time, but i will also have days when i only have an hour or two to chill out, but i still want to enjoy my time in the game without having to commit several hours to it.
For all the talk of WoW being too casual these days there are still things in there that i will never be able to achieve and some thing i will miss out on due to my play style and i accept that, but for me personally i have come to a perfect balance between my lifestyle and my gaming life. Plain and simple, i make just a big a financial contribution to the game as the next guy so whether you like it or not i deserve to enjoy it in my own way and if the game takes a direction further down the road that doesn't suit my play style then it will be time to move on to something that does.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
So, I see my neighbour started to do some business out there, making good money. So, why to invent hot water or discover America, I'll just do what my neighbour doing. Later then, everyone in da hood started same shit like me and my neighbour. Even later, I failed my business. Followed by others. We all failed, but neighbour still doing good. F**K you neighbour for ruining my business!!!
The blame going around in this thread is beyond hilarious "WoW killed the genre", "Developers dumbed down the games..its their fault" lololololol you people are living in a dream world.
Do you know what the problem is?
Do you really want to know who is at fault for the death of MMOs?
the answer....is you.
Yea that's right, the problem with MMOs is us, the players.
For every person that complained about too much grind, that things take too long or are too hard, guess what....you got what you wanted. I hope we are enjoying ourselves, because we only have ourselves to blame for the sad state of MMOs. Every time you come to these forums to whine or to praise games just remember....you reap what you sow.
And I can just feel the denials popping up already, "NAH AH...I always wanted challenging content and game mechanics", "I didn't do anything, it was everyone else that wanted that crap!!! not me!!!".
Comments
Not only they are easy, they are dumbed down to the extreme and, worst of all, they all show a regression, feature and options wise, from their predecessors.
Initially, MMORPG were conceived as a virtual extension of Role Playing, that is they catered to players that looked after an immersive RPG online experience - it was like an exclusivity for people that loved RPG and gaming and prioritized this hobby among their other hobbies. They were conceived to last for years and a subscription made sense as they were exclusive products for an exclusive audience.
A certain gaming company decided to expand their potential market base, catering to solo players that wanted to have their solo RPG experience in an online environment.
Catering to solo players for an online, social environment, that's crazy, right? The morally dubious ambition of making money on the short-term does not have anything to do with logic, much less with satisfying your target market (which is not the same as your potential market base). The current crap is just the consequence of a series of contradictions motivated by the rush of making money on the short-term (especially after Blizzard succeded in dragging a public alien to the RPG ethos). More or less:
- Trying to adapt RPG to people that don't want to know or don't understand what RPG is about --> No RPG anymore, just monster-slashing arcades.
- We design online games for people that don't like to be social --> dumb down the game to cater to the solo players. PVE and PVP segregation. Instances, compartmentalization.
- Catering to the "i don't have time for games" fallacy --> dumb-down, remove systems, be convenient to the point of having barebones of a game and a collection of minigames. And a chat.
- Catering to the "participation trophies", "Mommy: you're the best little Tommy!", "i deserve to have/see everything in the game" mindset --> Massive stupidization.
.... .... ....
Essentially, what we have now is the McDonalds model applied to MMORPG: directed to the masses for easy and rapid consumption, simple enough to not choke with it, in the best of cases it'll leave a sweet taste in your mouth that'll be quickly forgotten. You know, cause I'm a very important guy that don't have time to sit calmly and enjoy a properly cooked meal, much less bother to chew properly or even think about the menu! Rinse and repeat.
The perfect model for a hypocrite and entitled society with delusions of grandeur, that while always in a rush doesn't know where is going to.
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
it makes me laugh people go on and on about how easy game is!dev ask ,DID YOU CHEAT YOUR WAY TO MAX LEVEL!gamer?wtf of caurse everybody cheat in gaming!dev cover his eyes!
check the secret world,want to test someone skill for say doing puzzle?look no further!the thing is this stuff goes both ways,i got this quest in tsw this week basicly it was asking me a password the hint?its his wife name!i assume the dead women beside him is his wife!buzzer!wrong! first try I cheated.but when I read an ariticle about it I found out what was really going on!that war thingy going on between the tree faction?ya it include misdirection !I don't talk max level stuff here very low level.so imagine this at end game!understanding what you read is just not enough here .you got to research.they even supply the browser , I taught it was for show lol.the issue here is the first site showing if almost always the site with the solution.and I think the first page should be reserved for actual tsw wanted you to see.or maybe there is and I didn't see how it works yet!
but anyway ,game are rarely too easy out of the box ,like the coordinate thingy press f9 and you get it.but people got annoyred by it because a swarm of zombie were trying to kill them will they were trying to find whatemacallit!ya I call it cheating!it is possible true.but don't come complain game is too easy when you aren't using the ingame tool.you have only your self to blame!
but then after that we d get but its too hard!want to be spooked?try this
there is this quest called :in to the darkness in tsw !go try it for fun.dont cheat with gamma headlight or gun flare!now do the quest!ya very very spooky!it will bring the mood of the game.
this is why I love this game!if you play full mood.you cant play for very long in this game.you have to limit your self . I would say 2 to 3 hours max.not because the game isn't good but because the mood is dark I don't suggest more then 3 hour per day!
Most new MMO's still come with challenging gameplay. And if you can't find it in PVE, you can always find it in PVP. But some things have changed though imo.
- MMO mechanics are not new anymore. So we don't need much time anymore to get used to a game. which makes a new MMO feel a lot more familiar now. The odd thing is, that some players really like that, while other players think the opposite. The latter is looking for something new and original. This is not good or bad, just preference imo.
- The newer MMO's are more forgiving when you make mistakes. I don't know if this is a bad thing. For me personally it doesn't really matter. I don't need a harsh penalty to make me not want to die. I refuse to die in any game. And I only PUG once with ppl that zerg.
- Newer MMO's got rid of most of the inconveniences. Some players crave for long travel times in a huge world. No matter if that means they travel the same road back to a city 100 times. Other players don't have that time (or patience) anymore and prefer to skip that. Again something I don't see as bad or good, just preference.
In general I think that the main difference is that MMO's are not new anymore and there are not many secrets to discover anymore because of that.
I agree with most except for the size of games. If you really look at the older games, the world size were really small - slow travel just made them look bigger.
First I think it should take longer to level. Most would respond to this with "then i have to grind all day." I think that the grind is needed. I prefer the grind over the, overly repeated but with a different color, quests/missions. Or at least enemies at you level should be a real challenge still.
Also each class should be more distinct and the class should always grow over time with different paths. there still needs to be a twist on some of the classes. Why cant a healer summon and summon a creature and send it out to assist in heals? Why cant melee characters use all weapons. MAYBE not only should there be character/class skills but a large chart of skills for each weapon to chose from and some you have to complete special training or quests to achieve.
Auction houses are nice but personal shops are better. They create the need for searches and travels for items. This makes the game more involved.
There needs to be more elements in the game such as actual 1 v 1 arenas, pet raising/training, casinos, or social areas were the chat only work if you are in that space.
With guilds there should always be battles over the control of territory. And guilds should become more powerful by completing guild jobs and quests. Guild also should grow based on the money put into them, like a company. Using experience to level a guild is to simple and you basically just play and watch it advance (no real involvement).
I have not read all comments, so excuse me if i repeat something.
Blatant advertisement for his own game aside, this is just idiotic for one main reason, people like casual games!!! Why should it be such a bad thing that MMO's were pulled out of the dark corner and shared with everyone, things change, evolve and move on, that is just the way of things.
I don't agree for one second that people that play casually don't stop to smell the roses, enjoy the scenery or take an interest in the lore, that is a very jaded view from someone trying to make a specific point to promote his own work as something on the opposite end of the scale.
OK, you may not agree with me or even like the idea of it, but WoW has had and still has millions of paying players. I played EvE for a while and never bought into the comments about it being a more 'hardcore' game, i had two accounts, was part of a fair sized corp at the time, spent time in 0.0 hunting in packs but the game was never difficult it just sucked the time out of my life which is why i left.
I used to dungeon run and raid in Vanilla WoW but for the same reasons i switched to casual play and i was far happier for it, both in game and in life. I can work all week, dropping in for an hour when i get the chance of an evening and then drop in for a few hours when relaxing at the weekend and i don't miss out on anything, if i want to quest, i quest, if i want to run a dungeon or raid i can do so through LFG if my guild is short of people, so i pay my money every month and get entertained as and when i feel like it.
To me, a game should be just that, a game, not a way of life or something i have to dedicate several hours at a time to just to complete a single quest. That is not to say that there isn't a place for the hardcore and those that enjoy it, it just isn't for me or millions of others.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
@ Shadoed...
So, because you and Millions of others wanted MMOs to be changed it's OK that our MMO hobby got radically changed .just .to .please .your group??
No, it's not OK, no matter how you attempt to justify it.
Just realize that this genre was once the home of Players that wanted to spends hours and hours playing their MMOs because they loved them, because "Gaming" to them was more than just a "one hour" diversion and still IS.
We didn't like your Sports, or your Console Games, we didn't like your Golf and the Country Clubs, We didn't like to wander are Shopping or.... We liked our MMO Gaming circa UO and EQ and there was some stuff we wanted changed, but not THAT MUCH changed.
I didn't invade your real life hobbies and demand chages just to suit my tastes, but Blizzard invited You and millions of others into Our Hobby and YOU DID demand changes. It would have been great if you had accepted what was here without complaint or critisizm. Instead the "Masses" wanted most things changed and they didn't care what the original Players wanted at all.
So Sir, I will say it one more time. It was not OK to say MMO needed to be changed. It wasn't your Hobby, or you would have like it to begin with as it was.
Just think on that point a second or two.... if something is so "wrong" in your eyes that it needs massive change to make it fit what you think "should be", then why are you involved with it in the first place????
Do I blame you personally Shadoed? No I do not. I do however blame collectively everyone that has played MMOs and has Designed MMOs and demanded radical change.... it would be much better for everyone involved to create a new genre rather than compromise an existing one.
I think there is a differentiation between too easy and too simple. To me, easy refers to the difficulty level required to achieve certain tasks, where as simplicity refers to shallowness within game systems, and perhaps a lack of systems.
That said, I think most mmo are not necessarily too easy, but much too simple. I don't think it's a matter of themepark over sandbox, but rather an overall vision of what kind of players developers attract. Frankly, there are a lot more casual players than there are hardcore, so it's obvious why developers pander toward a particular audience.
Now a days there are a lot of kids playing that's why they should up the players age so nobody from age 18 below could play it
these kids complains a lot 
even kid minded people 
I'm just posting dont have to listen to me
I'm just a normal guy with some normal thoughts 
@ ;Gardavsshade
I don't think that i said that MMO's or WoW in particular 'had' to be changed or 'i wanted' it changed, i was just lucky that the game changed to suite my new style of playing and the reason it changed was that the demand was there for it to change. If the overwhelming demand had been for the game to move to a more hardcore style of play i am sure Blizzard would have gone in that direction and i would have gone to find something else.
Gaming has been my hobby too since the 70's and i have enjoyed fantasy stuff since my parents got me the D&D red starter box, played Elite for days on end on the BBCB micro (hence my love for 'Earth & Beyond' and 'Eve') and was introduced to MUD back then, had my Sinclair Spectrum and spent happy hours wading through The Hobbit and Valhalla, moved on to my Atari ST and completed Dungeon Master after much toil and dying endlessly and when WoW came out i loved it from the off. In summary, i know what it is to love my gaming and i still do, it is as much my passion as yours, i just enjoy it in a different way these days but you think i should be locked out of my passion because it doesn't fit with the way you want things as well?
As for 'demanding changes' that is the natural course of any game and you even said yourself that you would have made changes. As i said above if the hardcore element had been the louder voice then i am sure Blizzard would have gone in that direction, but it wasn't, there were more casual players playing the game that seemed to want it to move in a particular direction and i am sure for commercial reasons that is why they went that way, i have loved the game good and bad and do not demand it moves in one direction or the other, i love it for what it is. Others it would seem though would have had it sit and go stale for years on end so as not to upset the status quo, well things just don't work that way in a commercial environment that games like this are these days, never have and never will.
Again, i do understand how you feel but this particular game has changed in a way that you don't like, so move on to something that does suit your play style. My father is a die hard AO fan, has been through WoW and been a successful raider, but will go back to AO time and again because it suits his play style much better. What i am saying is that i am sorry you feel that others spoiled your fun, but sometimes you can't keep the playground to yourself, others have the right to enjoy themselves too it is just unfortunate that it was not a game that you wanted to take part in.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
You can blame others all you want, but things that truly work stands the test of time for ALL types of people. If they called the gaming you hate Casual Gamers Assembled genre, you know what would happen? Nothing, because no matter HOW YOU LABEL a game, people will play what they like. You claim the change is SO RADICAL, but at it's core, it still mimics an MMORPG.
Dumb Gamer => "Dang, CGA's have everything I want in a game and plays oddly similar to some of the MMOs...but I'll pass...because it's not called an MMO..." Your loss...
Dumb Developer => "Wow, CGA's are making a big hit. My ideas truly follow its line of thinking and direction 100%. But you know what, I guess I'll try to incorporate it into the MMORPG genre style. What? You mean you don't like what I created and not going to play it, MMORPG crowd? Say it ain't so..." Very much so, my friend...
Don't get mad a people for playing a game that fits them and don't get mad at developers who poured their time into developing a product others want to play. If you want to be upset, be upset at yourself and others like you for not being able to convince the people or developers that the gaming you enjoy is still worth putting time into.
I am getting so sick of the "I don't have the time" crowd. We get it, you are so busy with real life that you don't have time to play games. Okay, so then don't play them. They are and always have been something you do in your FREE TIME. So I don't understand why people bitch and say they don't have the time to experience all the game has to offer. Like yeah, so don't then if you don't have the time. Getting so sick of this complaint in the MMO genre.
I agree.
WOW DID ruin the genre.
No, you obviously don't get it.
Not having a lot of free time to spend playing games is not the same as having 0 free time to play games. And when a person has limited free time available they typically want to get right into the action and do something fun, not sit around waiting for group queues or other mundane activites.
It's like this, say you like to go to the shooting range on the weekend because --- you like to shoot guns. Crazy concept, right?
Now, say there are usually 45 people at the range who just show up for the day and rent a pistol for a small fee and begin shooting straight away (casuals). However, there are also about 5 people who always spend at least 30 minutes cleaning and polishing their privately owned weapons before they start firing at targets and occasionaly they will berate another shooter (player) at the gun range (in the game) for not taking the time to properly prepare themselves and their firearm before shooting (playing).
Most people with a CASUAL HOBBY just want to fire off a few rounds at some targets down range for an hour or two- not learn about ballistics, gun safety protocol, or the history of firearms. They'll jump through those hoops if necessary (safety protocol), but if they could avoid it they most likely would.
The hardcore players aren't wrong for enjoying the depth and nuances in a game or for wanting more of them, but they are wrong for expecting everyone else to accede to their demands and either play the game the way they do or leave.
There is a difference between 'Casual' and 'I don't have time', a very marked difference.
I consider myself a casual gamer these days, after having sunk lots of time into Eve 0.0 mining runs and WoW raids i decided that i wanted to dictate the time i play a game and not the other way around, that is the difference.
Of course i want to experience all a game has to offer, i just don't want it to dictate how i lead my life. If i have a free day i can get just as involved as i used to get and lose myself in the game completely for 10-12 hours at a time, but i will also have days when i only have an hour or two to chill out, but i still want to enjoy my time in the game without having to commit several hours to it.
For all the talk of WoW being too casual these days there are still things in there that i will never be able to achieve and some thing i will miss out on due to my play style and i accept that, but for me personally i have come to a perfect balance between my lifestyle and my gaming life. Plain and simple, i make just a big a financial contribution to the game as the next guy so whether you like it or not i deserve to enjoy it in my own way and if the game takes a direction further down the road that doesn't suit my play style then it will be time to move on to something that does.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
So, I see my neighbour started to do some business out there, making good money. So, why to invent hot water or discover America, I'll just do what my neighbour doing. Later then, everyone in da hood started same shit like me and my neighbour. Even later, I failed my business. Followed by others. We all failed, but neighbour still doing good. F**K you neighbour for ruining my business!!!
The blame going around in this thread is beyond hilarious "WoW killed the genre", "Developers dumbed down the games..its their fault" lololololol you people are living in a dream world.
Do you know what the problem is?
Do you really want to know who is at fault for the death of MMOs?
the answer....is you.
Yea that's right, the problem with MMOs is us, the players.
For every person that complained about too much grind, that things take too long or are too hard, guess what....you got what you wanted. I hope we are enjoying ourselves, because we only have ourselves to blame for the sad state of MMOs. Every time you come to these forums to whine or to praise games just remember....you reap what you sow.
And I can just feel the denials popping up already, "NAH AH...I always wanted challenging content and game mechanics", "I didn't do anything, it was everyone else that wanted that crap!!! not me!!!".
HEAVEN OR HELL
Duel 1
Lets ROCK!
It is been said numerous times. It's in human nature to blame others for our own desires... and failures.
OP:
Guys, I've spent all my working life making themepark MMOs that are boring and dumb down the genre, but this Firefall is the bestest game.
So, on a more positive note, where are the gameplay mechanics etc that are going to revitalise the MMO game?
I sometimes make spelling and grammar errors but I don't pretend it's because I'm using a phone
gameplay > graphics