While the game may not be completely "free" the money you give your internet provider does not go towards the development of the game you are playing. I can assure you that the game was not "free" to make either
Why not completely deprive the term of any meaning whatsoever, in any context?
Everything costs some amount of time and/or effort, so nothing is free.
A man who is free is still bound by the constraints of his character, his capabilities, and other things like physics, so he's never truly free.
Or we could avoid being silly and agree that we can call free men "free" and free games "free", and ignore the extreme technicalities surrounding them.
Nothing really rocks and nothing really rolls and nothing's ever worth the cost.
Satisfying our Bad Jim Steinman Lyric requirement for the decade. Now returning you to Pointless Philosophies 110.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Whether or not I am playing an MMO, I am having an internet connection in my house. It is part of my monthly expenses regardless of what I am using it for. And for bills that I have to pay, it is the least amount each month by nearly half the cost of the next closest item, Dish....
With that logic you could add in the cost of the power usage while playing an MMO as well, because that isn't free, and the hardware/software/input/output device of your PC that allows you to thus play an MMO and factor the amount it cost by the % of total time on the machine running that you were on an MMO to get your real cost to see how much your gaming addiction(er..MMO) actually cost you over a set period through not sub/microtransaction fees, but I regress to much work for something I'm going to have regardless of the game being online/offline and since I'm not an accountant or counting my pennies to pay my bills anytime in future I'll just say a free MMO is a free game.
I agree, and just want to add if I didn't have the internet I would be down the pub ,cinema.,restauraant etc etc agreed I might have a better social life ,but im saving a fortune by have internet
Yea lets see how long Free internet last. Remember net Zero which was FREE internet. Yea that didnt last long, anyone that access the internet for more than 40 hours a month they started charging money for. Why? Because Labor is not free. Take a network engineer for example a good one will cost you $50K to $90K a year. How do you pay them with no money coming in because you are not charging for internet services? Well you dont. And the cost to get the required skills to become a Network Engineer is not free either. Often companies do not hire IT people without 1 Experience or 2 a college Education. Both are not FREE. Sorry but Free is just a scam to get customers and then do a bait and switch on them. Just like going to a car dealer after you bought a car but you putting 50K miles on your car a year and them saying sorry I know we said Free oil changes for 5 years but you are getting an oil change every other month. Its one thing to give a little old lady who drives 2K miles a year a free oil change its completely another to give someone who needs one every other month free oil changes. Just like internet just like F2P games. Its not a smart move period.
It will I guess, you "pay" for it with your whole net (and tv) traffic is going through Google (and not only those parts your web browsing presence when you're logged in to a Google account).
Those give plenty of data to mine, and Google lives on ads and targeting, with fiber they could enhance their targeting algorythms, etc. No such thing as (truly) free lunch
I can play an MMO completely and totally for free. I have unlimited bandwidth on an Internet connection that I pay for anyhow, therefore the MMO doesn't cost me anything extra. My computer is on 24/7/365, therefore it doesn't cost me any more in power.
It's not an illusion. It's free.
Measure the amp draw on your computer while playing and at rest. It's not free :P
That's about as ridiculous as saying "your body burns more calories while you're moving, therefore you have to eat more food".
Downloading an MMO costs bandwidth. Many people have to pay bandwidth or the internet company to download things. Many people have a bandwidth cap, especially those in Australia and parts of Europe. Some people, even in the US, have to pay extra for the amount needed to download. And to be able to play a game online, you have to pay the internet company money each month to do so.
Therefore, MMOs aren't actually free, even if they say they are. The MMO itself may be free, but to play it, it isn't. This is also true for digital download games (but you have to pay for those anyway), or games that require an always online connection (which costs a lot of bandwidth, especially for those of us in Australia).
So free is an illusion, as people have to pay money to play an MMO or anything else that requires an internet connection.
So that makes p2p and b2p games even more expensive. Huh, whoda thunk it?
This is yet another thread where people who hold unpopular opinions to go extreme lengths to justify their beliefs. "Oh, it's not really free because your computer is using electricity!" Seriously, that's the best you can do? Even if that's so, then a F2P game is still cheaper than a P2P game, so we're back to square one.
I can play an MMO completely and totally for free. I have unlimited bandwidth on an Internet connection that I pay for anyhow, therefore the MMO doesn't cost me anything extra. My computer is on 24/7/365, therefore it doesn't cost me any more in power.
It's not an illusion. It's free.
Measure the amp draw on your computer while playing and at rest. It's not free :P
I have this friend who pays his internet, electricity and water bills mining bitcoins. Did he find the holy grail?
Originally posted by austriacus Originally posted by DamonVileOriginally posted by Cephus404I can play an MMO completely and totally for free. I have unlimited bandwidth on an Internet connection that I pay for anyhow, therefore the MMO doesn't cost me anything extra. My computer is on 24/7/365, therefore it doesn't cost me any more in power.It's not an illusion. It's free.
Measure the amp draw on your computer while playing and at rest. It's not free :PI have this friend who pays his internet, electricity and water bills mining bitcoins. Did he find the holy grail?
Unless he got in early, he's not still doing that. Not without some serious investment in dedicated hardware to mine the bitcoins. Enough have been mined that the rest are going to take a really, really, really long time to find.
Man, I wish I had started mining to stupid things when I first heard about it.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I can play an MMO completely and totally for free. I have unlimited bandwidth on an Internet connection that I pay for anyhow, therefore the MMO doesn't cost me anything extra. My computer is on 24/7/365, therefore it doesn't cost me any more in power.
It's not an illusion. It's free.
Measure the amp draw on your computer while playing and at rest. It's not free :P
I have this friend who pays his internet, electricity and water bills mining bitcoins. Did he find the holy grail?
No
Someone posted the no such thing as a free lunch thing here. People should give it a read. It sort of comes down to how small do you think.
Downloading an MMO costs bandwidth. Many people have to pay bandwidth or the internet company to download things. Many people have a bandwidth cap, especially those in Australia and parts of Europe. Some people, even in the US, have to pay extra for the amount needed to download. And to be able to play a game online, you have to pay the internet company money each month to do so.
Therefore, MMOs aren't actually free, even if they say they are. The MMO itself may be free, but to play it, it isn't. This is also true for digital download games (but you have to pay for those anyway), or games that require an always online connection (which costs a lot of bandwidth, especially for those of us in Australia).
So free is an illusion, as people have to pay money to play an MMO or anything else that requires an internet connection.
I can play an MMO completely and totally for free. I have unlimited bandwidth on an Internet connection that I pay for anyhow, therefore the MMO doesn't cost me anything extra. My computer is on 24/7/365, therefore it doesn't cost me any more in power.
It's not an illusion. It's free.
except it is only free for you because someone else is paying, and paying alot or the companies would not let you play for free. So, essentially, you are someone that is allowed to play to keep the actual paying customers company and give them a "mmo" experience. You are actually a non-paid employee of the company - filling the role of Goofy at Disney world. The company is saving money because they do not have to pay you, they just let you play for free.
Wouldn't you be paying for internet whether or not you are playing MMO's and downloading them? I also live in Australia and I find the internet services to be pretty cheap with at least a 100gig limit per month for around 50ish dollars, even if I do go over my download limit I certainly don't run outside and shake my fists at those MMO developers for stealing my money for a game that is advertised as free.
If you can't afford a decent bandwidth than I'd propose to limit what you download or cut back on playing MMO's that require a lot of bandwidth until you can afford it.
Downloading an MMO costs bandwidth. Many people have to pay bandwidth or the internet company to download things. Many people have a bandwidth cap, especially those in Australia and parts of Europe. Some people, even in the US, have to pay extra for the amount needed to download. And to be able to play a game online, you have to pay the internet company money each month to do so.
Therefore, MMOs aren't actually free, even if they say they are. The MMO itself may be free, but to play it, it isn't. This is also true for digital download games (but you have to pay for those anyway), or games that require an always online connection (which costs a lot of bandwidth, especially for those of us in Australia).
So free is an illusion, as people have to pay money to play an MMO or anything else that requires an internet connection.
I can play an MMO completely and totally for free. I have unlimited bandwidth on an Internet connection that I pay for anyhow, therefore the MMO doesn't cost me anything extra. My computer is on 24/7/365, therefore it doesn't cost me any more in power.
It's not an illusion. It's free.
except it is only free for you because someone else is paying, and paying alot or the companies would not let you play for free. So, essentially, you are someone that is allowed to play to keep the actual paying customers company and give them a "mmo" experience. You are actually a non-paid employee of the company - filling the role of Goofy at Disney world. The company is saving money because they do not have to pay you, they just let you play for free.
No one is holding a gun to their head, they are paying of their own free will, that has nothing to do with me. For me, the game is 100% free.
Originally posted by ElderRat Originally posted by Cephus404Originally posted by TheScavengerDownloading an MMO costs bandwidth. Many people have to pay bandwidth or the internet company to download things. Many people have a bandwidth cap, especially those in Australia and parts of Europe. Some people, even in the US, have to pay extra for the amount needed to download. And to be able to play a game online, you have to pay the internet company money each month to do so.Therefore, MMOs aren't actually free, even if they say they are. The MMO itself may be free, but to play it, it isn't. This is also true for digital download games (but you have to pay for those anyway), or games that require an always online connection (which costs a lot of bandwidth, especially for those of us in Australia).So free is an illusion, as people have to pay money to play an MMO or anything else that requires an internet connection.
I can play an MMO completely and totally for free. I have unlimited bandwidth on an Internet connection that I pay for anyhow, therefore the MMO doesn't cost me anything extra. My computer is on 24/7/365, therefore it doesn't cost me any more in power.It's not an illusion. It's free.except it is only free for you because someone else is paying, and paying alot or the companies would not let you play for free. So, essentially, you are someone that is allowed to play to keep the actual paying customers company and give them a "mmo" experience. You are actually a non-paid employee of the company - filling the role of Goofy at Disney world. The company is saving money because they do not have to pay you, they just let you play for free.
People keep bringing stuff like this up as if it's a revelation or something. Nobody things that everyone is playing for free. Even games that operate only on donations have some players that pay to play, and some players that don't.
You haven't presented an argument against F2P, you've only provided a very creative description of one aspect of F2P.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Since my free time is more limited than my available entertainment cash, I don't care if a game is free or not. I do care if it is worth the time. I will not play a crappy game for free, or 2/3 of a game for free, or some heavily limited micro-transaction mess just because there is no sub. "Well, it's free" is the excuse most boosters of the various "F2P" games pull out to excuse the many faults and shortcomings of the cheaply-made F2P games that have flooded the market. For me, that excuse is worth precisely nothing. To me, so-called F2P is a big turn-off, and I usually avoid them.
Originally posted by TheScavengerDownloading an MMO costs bandwidth. Many people have to pay bandwidth or the internet company to download things. Many people have a bandwidth cap, especially those in Australia and parts of Europe. Some people, even in the US, have to pay extra for the amount needed to download. And to be able to play a game online, you have to pay the internet company money each month to do so.Therefore, MMOs aren't actually free, even if they say they are. The MMO itself may be free, but to play it, it isn't. This is also true for digital download games (but you have to pay for those anyway), or games that require an always online connection (which costs a lot of bandwidth, especially for those of us in Australia).So free is an illusion, as people have to pay money to play an MMO or anything else that requires an internet connection.
I can play an MMO completely and totally for free. I have unlimited bandwidth on an Internet connection that I pay for anyhow, therefore the MMO doesn't cost me anything extra. My computer is on 24/7/365, therefore it doesn't cost me any more in power.It's not an illusion. It's free.
except it is only free for you because someone else is paying, and paying alot or the companies would not let you play for free. So, essentially, you are someone that is allowed to play to keep the actual paying customers company and give them a "mmo" experience. You are actually a non-paid employee of the company - filling the role of Goofy at Disney world. The company is saving money because they do not have to pay you, they just let you play for free.
People keep bringing stuff like this up as if it's a revelation or something. Nobody things that everyone is playing for free. Even games that operate only on donations have some players that pay to play, and some players that don't.
You haven't presented an argument against F2P, you've only provided a very creative description of one aspect of F2P.
who was arguing against free to play - I was arguing that those who think they play for free are actually working for free.
Originally posted by TheScavenger Here in Australia (I'm staying here temporarily, for this year)...I actually had to pay what came out to be 43 AU dollars, because Age of Conan took up all the bandwidth from its huge download+updates I had to do. Not sure what that comes out in USD, but that was quite a lot of money for a "free" game.
You don't get unlimited bandwidth in Australia? That's pretty rough... it's pretty standard here in the states.
Holly crap, didn't know people pay for bandwidth. I thought everyone paid a fixed fee every month. Guess I will not move in Australia after all...
Yeah, Australia has it bad when it comes to internet. Their economy sucks too. The only one's who have it worse are the Islamics.
Our economy is top notch, can travel anywhere shit cheap. Out internet (until NBN is finished) does suck.
Usually when things are cheap that's a sign that the economy is bad. Just saying... everything is cheap in Mexico. Not saying your economy is bad, but pointing out how cheap something is doesn't help.
Originally posted by TheScavenger Here in Australia (I'm staying here temporarily, for this year)...I actually had to pay what came out to be 43 AU dollars, because Age of Conan took up all the bandwidth from its huge download+updates I had to do. Not sure what that comes out in USD, but that was quite a lot of money for a "free" game.
That 43 dollars is between you and your ISP. Funcom gave you the game for free and the medium you choose to receive the game cost you money not the game itself.
You could have gone to a friend's house and copied the game from them and in that way the medium of receiving the game would have cost you nothing. Unless of course you want to say that you had to pay for petrol in your car to get to your friend's house etc. And why stop there, what about food? You can't play a game if you have not eaten right? Dont blame the game blame your ISP for capping your Internet.
Comments
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I agree, and just want to add if I didn't have the internet I would be down the pub ,cinema.,restauraant etc etc agreed I might have a better social life ,but im saving a fortune by have internet
I've made a mistake of reading through the thread.
Now that's 20 minutes of my life I'm not getting back.
I wonder who's going to pay for that. I'm charging $40/h, by the way.
Yea lets see how long Free internet last. Remember net Zero which was FREE internet. Yea that didnt last long, anyone that access the internet for more than 40 hours a month they started charging money for. Why? Because Labor is not free. Take a network engineer for example a good one will cost you $50K to $90K a year. How do you pay them with no money coming in because you are not charging for internet services? Well you dont. And the cost to get the required skills to become a Network Engineer is not free either. Often companies do not hire IT people without 1 Experience or 2 a college Education. Both are not FREE. Sorry but Free is just a scam to get customers and then do a bait and switch on them. Just like going to a car dealer after you bought a car but you putting 50K miles on your car a year and them saying sorry I know we said Free oil changes for 5 years but you are getting an oil change every other month. Its one thing to give a little old lady who drives 2K miles a year a free oil change its completely another to give someone who needs one every other month free oil changes. Just like internet just like F2P games. Its not a smart move period.
It will I guess, you "pay" for it with your whole net (and tv) traffic is going through Google (and not only those parts your web browsing presence when you're logged in to a Google account).
Those give plenty of data to mine, and Google lives on ads and targeting, with fiber they could enhance their targeting algorythms, etc. No such thing as (truly) free lunch
That's about as ridiculous as saying "your body burns more calories while you're moving, therefore you have to eat more food".
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
So that makes p2p and b2p games even more expensive. Huh, whoda thunk it?
This is yet another thread where people who hold unpopular opinions to go extreme lengths to justify their beliefs. "Oh, it's not really free because your computer is using electricity!" Seriously, that's the best you can do? Even if that's so, then a F2P game is still cheaper than a P2P game, so we're back to square one.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
I have this friend who pays his internet, electricity and water bills mining bitcoins. Did he find the holy grail?
I have this friend who pays his internet, electricity and water bills mining bitcoins. Did he find the holy grail?
Unless he got in early, he's not still doing that. Not without some serious investment in dedicated hardware to mine the bitcoins. Enough have been mined that the rest are going to take a really, really, really long time to find.
Man, I wish I had started mining to stupid things when I first heard about it.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
No
Someone posted the no such thing as a free lunch thing here. People should give it a read. It sort of comes down to how small do you think.
except it is only free for you because someone else is paying, and paying alot or the companies would not let you play for free. So, essentially, you are someone that is allowed to play to keep the actual paying customers company and give them a "mmo" experience. You are actually a non-paid employee of the company - filling the role of Goofy at Disney world. The company is saving money because they do not have to pay you, they just let you play for free.
Currently bored with MMO's.
This doesn't make a lot of sense to me..
Wouldn't you be paying for internet whether or not you are playing MMO's and downloading them? I also live in Australia and I find the internet services to be pretty cheap with at least a 100gig limit per month for around 50ish dollars, even if I do go over my download limit I certainly don't run outside and shake my fists at those MMO developers for stealing my money for a game that is advertised as free.
If you can't afford a decent bandwidth than I'd propose to limit what you download or cut back on playing MMO's that require a lot of bandwidth until you can afford it.
No one is holding a gun to their head, they are paying of their own free will, that has nothing to do with me. For me, the game is 100% free.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
except it is only free for you because someone else is paying, and paying alot or the companies would not let you play for free. So, essentially, you are someone that is allowed to play to keep the actual paying customers company and give them a "mmo" experience. You are actually a non-paid employee of the company - filling the role of Goofy at Disney world. The company is saving money because they do not have to pay you, they just let you play for free.
People keep bringing stuff like this up as if it's a revelation or something. Nobody things that everyone is playing for free. Even games that operate only on donations have some players that pay to play, and some players that don't.
You haven't presented an argument against F2P, you've only provided a very creative description of one aspect of F2P.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
who was arguing against free to play - I was arguing that those who think they play for free are actually working for free.
Currently bored with MMO's.
Yeah, Australia has it bad when it comes to internet. Their economy sucks too. The only one's who have it worse are the Islamics.
Our economy is top notch, can travel anywhere shit cheap. Out internet (until NBN is finished) does suck.
You don't get unlimited bandwidth in Australia? That's pretty rough... it's pretty standard here in the states.
Usually when things are cheap that's a sign that the economy is bad. Just saying... everything is cheap in Mexico. Not saying your economy is bad, but pointing out how cheap something is doesn't help.
That 43 dollars is between you and your ISP. Funcom gave you the game for free and the medium you choose to receive the game cost you money not the game itself.
You could have gone to a friend's house and copied the game from them and in that way the medium of receiving the game would have cost you nothing. Unless of course you want to say that you had to pay for petrol in your car to get to your friend's house etc. And why stop there, what about food? You can't play a game if you have not eaten right? Dont blame the game blame your ISP for capping your Internet.
here's a shocking relevation:
Nothing in life is free.