Hope this is sarcasm... cause the themepark model works very, very well - depending on the game and the payment model.
Haha, seriously? Didn't work for WAR, or SWTOR, or AoC, or TSW, or Rift, or LotRO, or any of the other recent flops. When a game merges servers and forces itself to go FTP after a month or so, and developers get fired, it did poorly.
How many sandbox MMOs are there that prove that model works?
One? EvE? And, by the way, their 500k peak subscribers is still... let's see.... 6 times less than what you say was the peak WoW subscriber count in the west (3 million.)
Don't be ignorant.
We're not talking about sandboxes. DAoC, EQ, AC, those games grew over time because they weren't built around linear scripted content that you burn through and then leave. They had heavy social elements, which built human ties that kept you on the game. Same for sandboxes like UO, and SWG.
How many AAA sandbox MMOs have there been? Two. UO, and SWG, and both were massive successes of their time, and didn't start failing until themepark features were added.
And Eve, which started out as a nothing MMO, is the second biggest MMO in the west, and its a sandox, and its STILL GROWING. Meanwhile, SWTOR, 300 million budget, died instantly.
SWG was no massive success. It was average for it's time. But the IP also gave it an initial jump start it might not have had if it were any other game besides SW. But I remember very vividly asking guildies where everyone was. And the answer was EQ2. The game was not dead but the decline in population was noticeable. I'm going to tell you something else about this massive success. It was a failure. SWG was a ticking time bomb. That game was set up around a balance of players. Certain balance of Brawlers, Scouts, Politicians, Artisians, Entertainers, Sharp Shooters, etc. But then there was the Jedi. The game was set so that only the very most hardcore elite of the player base would ever take on such a horrific grind. Well, that must have been the thought. But I don't think SoE ever imagined the entire population of SWG wanting to be Jedi. But that's what it turned into. And SWG would not be able to support that kind of shift that was happening. So like it or not, SWG was going to change one way or another. If left alone, it was going to fail from the inside out.
And that brings us to EVE. The biggest contributor to EVE's success is CCP's ability to re monetize the mediocre player base to fund the whole game. They capitalized on the fact that their player base wants multiple accounts and figured out a way to spread that expense across the whole population. That's great for EVE, but don't be looking at the next sandbox for that model. Any game coming out now is having difficulty keeping each player subbed to one account forget about multiples. So then, what does that mean for EVE? Well, if we had a game where one player only needs one account, how many Subs would EVE really have now? Eves' number of active original players is much lower than its subscriptions due to this. What is EVE's current subscription count at? I read somewhere it's around 250K. I read that here so I have no idea if that's true or not but if it is then out of all those subs, you merged them into the single account for the player that uses multiples, what would that number be? I'd bet they would be lucky to have a high 5 figure active population. Maybe low 6. That would spell failure in any other MMO to be released today. 100K subs or less? Please. EVE is just the most successful niche game, but it's not the success story people here love to make it into. Certainly, whatever success they do have in the industry is about as un repeatable as WoW's
Hey all, I know that I'm new to the forums/site, I've been mostly reading the GW2 forums, I really love GW2 atm, but I've had trouble leveling because there isn't enough people to do events with, and the full realms I can't get into.
But anyways, I just wanted to say that MoP has probably been my least favorite with Cata being the second.)
I just can't stand the asian style music and all the asian type names for the bosses, I am in no way racist, but the asian style themes are just not my thing, I really loved Wrath and BC..MoP has just been a huge let down for me.
For all of those people that wait with glee of Wow's impending doom will have a long wait. The game is still going strong and more fun that ever. I was skeptical but MoP has been fun as hell and the best expansion since BC. I don't get all the hate on this site towards WOW. I guess it's popular to feel superior and hate on the popular and successful. I've tried alot of other mmo's but something keeps me coming back to WoW. That's the mark of a successful game.
Originally posted by LizardKing89 For all of those people that wait with glee of Wow's impending doom will have a long wait. The game is still going strong and more fun that ever. I was skeptical but MoP has been fun as hell and the best expansion since BC. I don't get all the hate on this site towards WOW. I guess it's popular to feel superior and hate on the popular and successful. I've tried alot of other mmo's but something keeps me coming back to WoW. That's the mark of a successful game.
At any other point in the game's history, I'd be inclined to agree with you, but with current impending business decisions being made by the parent company that owns Blizzard. I can say, I'd be very surprised if we don't see an all out cash shop in WoW very soon.
also, lol@the numbers when EQ Next hits the shelves
People have been saying that the last 8 years.
"lol@the numbers when Vanguard hits the shelves."
"lol@the numbers when Age of Conan hits the shelves."
"lol@the numbers when LOTRO hits the shelves."
"lol@the numbers when hits the shelves."
I never hyped any of these games. Vanguard, really?
I never jumped on board with the TOR/GW2 hype either.
Well Age of Conan at least is great now, took them 5 years but it's way too bloody / gory / brutal for WoW players and their cartoon stylized preference.
These threads always make me laugh. Oh no, the game lost this many subs but still has more players than most of the competition combined...it's so dead!
Anyone who knows anything about MMOs will tell you that subs gradually go down (well for the good ones anyways), then they get a boost with new content or expansions, then they slowly fall again...I'm sure ANY developer would love to launch with half the subs WoW has after 10 years...
These threads always make me laugh. Oh no, the game lost this many subs but still has more players than most of the competition combined...it's so dead!
Anyone who knows anything about MMOs will tell you that subs gradually go down (well for the good ones anyways), then they get a boost with new content or expansions, then they slowly fall again...I'm sure ANY developer would love to launch with half the subs WoW has after 10 years...
ya but...but...all the current "subscribers" are Asian accounts who only play for 1 hour for 3 cents....
Nobody can escape the cracks of time. Blizzard doesn't need to change a thing. The game is almost 10 years old. Its already reached all the success it needs to. Let it age in peace like Everquest and remain a fond memory to many of us. And for the people that still play it and don't want to play a different mmo - good for them. As long as they are still having fun, then that's perfectly fine.
well said statement, also keep in mind even if went down too 1 mill players, it still be making them money. an by then they just swap things around too cash in on those left playing. also if/when it hits that point, blizzard next MMO will be out an the cycle will continue.
No, from 12M to 7.7M means that 4.3 million people are unemployed and can't afford to pay for MMOs. When they find work again, they will sub to WoW again.
If WoW went down to 1M subs, then the next best MMO would have 1k subs, and everyone else would be playing F2P for free.
Those of you who think WoW is Dying are the same ilk that didn't believe in Global Warming. BTW the reason the Republicans denied GW was because they feared that the Oil and Coal companies would be held financially responsible for it.
Keep ringing that bell, because WoW is sticking around for another 10 years. The last WoW gamer hasn't been born yet. Your kids, grandkids, and great grandkids will play WoW, before anything else replaces it.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
These threads always make me laugh. Oh no, the game lost this many subs but still has more players than most of the competition combined...it's so dead!
Anyone who knows anything about MMOs will tell you that subs gradually go down (well for the good ones anyways), then they get a boost with new content or expansions, then they slowly fall again...I'm sure ANY developer would love to launch with half the subs WoW has after 10 years...
ya but...but...all the current "subscribers" are Asian accounts who only play for 1 hour for 3 cents....
This. Not to mention that at 7.7 mil, even if that were the true number of concurrent players - it still isn't nearly "more than most of the competition combined". Every MMO that takes a lot of time and effort is competing with one another, and I can name a handful of games whose numbers WoW cannot touch.
No, from 12M to 7.7M means that 4.3 million people are unemployed and can't afford to pay for MMOs. When they find work again, they will sub to WoW again.
Or maybe they're tired of the game. I have the money to pay for WoW, but I wouldn't go back with all the games on my pc and/or MMOs coming out in the near future. With all the improvements being made in the genre, it'd be like going back to Runescape when I was playing WoW.
Comparing sub losses to "dying" is like saying that the Apple iPod line is "dead" because their sales have dropped off severely compared to when it came out and several years after. Don't be ridiculous, guys. People are just trying other things, some will come back periodically, but the fad is over. WoW still has great content, the best raiding in the business, incredibly competitive PVP, and almost 8 million subs. I bet you any MMO out there would kill for 1/8th of that number. Oh, that's right, almost all the other MMOs are F2P now, so they don't have subs. That is 7,700,000 guaranteed sources of income for Blizzard from their WoW franchise month after month going forward barring future decreases, etc. I bet the expansion settles at around 6.5-7million subs before picking another 1.5 million when the new expansion comes out.
Originally posted by Prenho The thing I want to see the most is WoW going to oblivion. i will make party if it happens.It will help the MMO genre.
How?
Dangerous and fun subject to talk about . Because it will stop carbon copies made by mmo industry ? First thing came to my mind
Actually, I would bet the copies would increase. "Guys! Guys! our #1 Themepark MMO competitor is dead! Time for us to move in and take the market!!" x 1000
Originally posted by Prenho The thing I want to see the most is WoW going to oblivion. i will make party if it happens.It will help the MMO genre.
How?
Dangerous and fun subject to talk about . Because it will stop carbon copies made by mmo industry ? First thing came to my mind
I'd say years of those kind of games already did that, if you look around you'll see many of the recently announced MMO's are going in different directions. Make no mistake though, whichever design comes out on top of this next crop, will be copied for another decade.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
WoW still has great content, the best raiding in the business, incredibly competitive PVP, and almost 8 million subs. I bet you any MMO out there would kill for 1/8th of that number. Oh, that's right, almost all the other MMOs are F2P now,
Do you realese wow numbers from china and other asian countries (excluding korea ) is payperhour ? wow has 7.7m players /accounts now but not subs . Subs = 15$ (euro etc ) monthly fee playing player .
It is impressive how everyone repeating this blizzard PR without thinking/ questioning .
These threads always make me laugh. Oh no, the game lost this many subs but still has more players than most of the competition combined...it's so dead!
Anyone who knows anything about MMOs will tell you that subs gradually go down (well for the good ones anyways), then they get a boost with new content or expansions, then they slowly fall again...I'm sure ANY developer would love to launch with half the subs WoW has after 10 years...
ya but...but...all the current "subscribers" are Asian accounts who only play for 1 hour for 3 cents....
This. Not to mention that at 7.7 mil, even if that were the true number of concurrent players - it still isn't nearly "more than most of the competition combined". Every MMO that takes a lot of time and effort is competing with one another, and I can name a handful of games whose numbers WoW cannot touch.
You must be counting Runescape, because 7.7M is more than the total playing any of the WoW killers on the failed shelf( Next to GW2 ).
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
OMG DOWN to 8 MILLION!! that's still more than 4 x the amount of ALL the MMOs currently on the market. Love it or hate it or love to hate it or hate that you once loved it. WoW isn't going anywhere. If EQ can last 14 years and 18 plus expacks then your grand kids will be playing WoW with you in the nursing home. Peace haters
No, from 12M to 7.7M means that 4.3 million people are unemployed and can't afford to pay for MMOs. When they find work again, they will sub to WoW again.
Or maybe they're tired of the game. I have the money to pay for WoW, but I wouldn't go back with all the games on my pc and/or MMOs coming out in the near future. With all the improvements being made in the genre, it'd be like going back to Runescape when I was playing WoW.
No. They are just too poor Kenney. Here is some good stock advice, don't waste your time and money on the next round of failed WoW killers. Or if you insist on wasting your time and money. Make room on your shelf for more games you got tired of playing.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
I know alot of players have left in 5.3 for one single quest. There's a quest (anyone player that's done it knows exactly which one I'm talking about) called Glory To The Horde or The Lion Roars. These quests require you to PvP in a PvE questline. What this has done is made PvPers sign up specifically for these battlegrounds to kill the PvE player with no gear and they get slaughtered. They do this because the bonus for doing random battlegrounds is negated in full, and then some, but the utter number of kills you can get in these battlegrounds by killing PvE players. Whoever thought of this quest idea, I don't think works for Blizzard anymore lol.
Originally posted by Gravarg I know alot of players have left in 5.3 for one single quest. There's a quest (anyone player that's done it knows exactly which one I'm talking about) called Glory To The Horde or The Lion Roars. These quests require you to PvP in a PvE questline. What this has done is made PvPers sign up specifically for these battlegrounds to kill the PvE player with no gear and they get slaughtered. They do this because the bonus for doing random battlegrounds is negated in full, and then some, but the utter number of kills you can get in these battlegrounds by killing PvE players. Whoever thought of this quest idea, I don't think works for Blizzard anymore lol.
A PvE quest that requires PvP...isn't a PvE quest....just want to point that out.....
Love it or hate it, WoW is pretty much the barometer for the entire genre. These players don't appear to be moving to other traditional MMO's so the big question is what genre / games are they migrating to?
None, They have left subscription gaming until the recession is over. This is why we see so many games failing to take gamers away from WoW or bring new people into gaming. WoW's numbers are falling because the number of gamers is falling.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Comments
SWG was no massive success. It was average for it's time. But the IP also gave it an initial jump start it might not have had if it were any other game besides SW. But I remember very vividly asking guildies where everyone was. And the answer was EQ2. The game was not dead but the decline in population was noticeable. I'm going to tell you something else about this massive success. It was a failure. SWG was a ticking time bomb. That game was set up around a balance of players. Certain balance of Brawlers, Scouts, Politicians, Artisians, Entertainers, Sharp Shooters, etc. But then there was the Jedi. The game was set so that only the very most hardcore elite of the player base would ever take on such a horrific grind. Well, that must have been the thought. But I don't think SoE ever imagined the entire population of SWG wanting to be Jedi. But that's what it turned into. And SWG would not be able to support that kind of shift that was happening. So like it or not, SWG was going to change one way or another. If left alone, it was going to fail from the inside out.
And that brings us to EVE. The biggest contributor to EVE's success is CCP's ability to re monetize the mediocre player base to fund the whole game. They capitalized on the fact that their player base wants multiple accounts and figured out a way to spread that expense across the whole population. That's great for EVE, but don't be looking at the next sandbox for that model. Any game coming out now is having difficulty keeping each player subbed to one account forget about multiples. So then, what does that mean for EVE? Well, if we had a game where one player only needs one account, how many Subs would EVE really have now? Eves' number of active original players is much lower than its subscriptions due to this. What is EVE's current subscription count at? I read somewhere it's around 250K. I read that here so I have no idea if that's true or not but if it is then out of all those subs, you merged them into the single account for the player that uses multiples, what would that number be? I'd bet they would be lucky to have a high 5 figure active population. Maybe low 6. That would spell failure in any other MMO to be released today. 100K subs or less? Please. EVE is just the most successful niche game, but it's not the success story people here love to make it into. Certainly, whatever success they do have in the industry is about as un repeatable as WoW's
Hey all, I know that I'm new to the forums/site, I've been mostly reading the GW2 forums, I really love GW2 atm, but I've had trouble leveling because there isn't enough people to do events with, and the full realms I can't get into.
But anyways, I just wanted to say that MoP has probably been my least favorite with Cata being the second.)
I just can't stand the asian style music and all the asian type names for the bosses, I am in no way racist, but the asian style themes are just not my thing, I really loved Wrath and BC..MoP has just been a huge let down for me.
Does anyone else feel this way..?
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At any other point in the game's history, I'd be inclined to agree with you, but with current impending business decisions being made by the parent company that owns Blizzard. I can say, I'd be very surprised if we don't see an all out cash shop in WoW very soon.
I never hyped any of these games. Vanguard, really?
I never jumped on board with the TOR/GW2 hype either.
Well Age of Conan at least is great now, took them 5 years but it's way too bloody / gory / brutal for WoW players and their cartoon stylized preference.
These threads always make me laugh. Oh no, the game lost this many subs but still has more players than most of the competition combined...it's so dead!
Anyone who knows anything about MMOs will tell you that subs gradually go down (well for the good ones anyways), then they get a boost with new content or expansions, then they slowly fall again...I'm sure ANY developer would love to launch with half the subs WoW has after 10 years...
ya but...but...all the current "subscribers" are Asian accounts who only play for 1 hour for 3 cents....
No, from 12M to 7.7M means that 4.3 million people are unemployed and can't afford to pay for MMOs. When they find work again, they will sub to WoW again.
If WoW went down to 1M subs, then the next best MMO would have 1k subs, and everyone else would be playing F2P for free.
Those of you who think WoW is Dying are the same ilk that didn't believe in Global Warming. BTW the reason the Republicans denied GW was because they feared that the Oil and Coal companies would be held financially responsible for it.
Keep ringing that bell, because WoW is sticking around for another 10 years. The last WoW gamer hasn't been born yet. Your kids, grandkids, and great grandkids will play WoW, before anything else replaces it.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
This. Not to mention that at 7.7 mil, even if that were the true number of concurrent players - it still isn't nearly "more than most of the competition combined". Every MMO that takes a lot of time and effort is competing with one another, and I can name a handful of games whose numbers WoW cannot touch.
Or maybe they're tired of the game. I have the money to pay for WoW, but I wouldn't go back with all the games on my pc and/or MMOs coming out in the near future. With all the improvements being made in the genre, it'd be like going back to Runescape when I was playing WoW.
Dangerous and fun subject to talk about
. Because it will stop carbon copies made by mmo industry ? First thing came to my mind
Actually, I would bet the copies would increase. "Guys! Guys! our #1 Themepark MMO competitor is dead! Time for us to move in and take the market!!" x 1000
I'd say years of those kind of games already did that, if you look around you'll see many of the recently announced MMO's are going in different directions. Make no mistake though, whichever design comes out on top of this next crop, will be copied for another decade.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Do you realese wow numbers from china and other asian countries (excluding korea ) is payperhour ? wow has 7.7m players /accounts now but not subs . Subs = 15$ (euro etc ) monthly fee playing player .
It is impressive how everyone repeating this blizzard PR without thinking/ questioning .
You must be counting Runescape, because 7.7M is more than the total playing any of the WoW killers on the failed shelf( Next to GW2 ).
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
No. They are just too poor Kenney. Here is some good stock advice, don't waste your time and money on the next round of failed WoW killers. Or if you insist on wasting your time and money. Make room on your shelf for more games you got tired of playing.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
A PvE quest that requires PvP...isn't a PvE quest....just want to point that out.....
None, They have left subscription gaming until the recession is over. This is why we see so many games failing to take gamers away from WoW or bring new people into gaming. WoW's numbers are falling because the number of gamers is falling.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.