So give people the option to develop their own LFD type tool and markers, or at the very least optional. Just don't make it a default assumption that everyone has to put up with if they want to use the minimap for basic maneuvering.
It is already optional. No one forces you to use it. The fact that many do .. is just showing how popular the LFD choice is.
This isn't a legitimate argument. People use it because it's the quickest path from point A to B. As humans, our psyche is developed that way; the path of least resistance is the most optimal. I'm sure there are many that use the LFD and would rather not, but it just makes their life that much harder because so many people already are.
Get rid of it and people will still have no issues creating groups. Simple as that.
Let's also be clear, I care almost nothing for story, lore or roleplaying, but I am definitely sick and tired of games becoming trivialized idiot-proof garbage that appeal to young children and morons. Why can't games be difficult again? If it's too difficult for people they'll either learn and adapt or fall away. That's ok with me.
You can have combat challenging without asking people to go through easy but tedious mapping exercises.
In fact, hard mode raiding is difficult. Has nothing to do with mapping.
So give people the option to develop their own LFD type tool and markers, or at the very least optional. Just don't make it a default assumption that everyone has to put up with if they want to use the minimap for basic maneuvering.
It is already optional. No one forces you to use it. The fact that many do .. is just showing how popular the LFD choice is.
LFD might be to some extent, but most modern mmos don't even give an option to turn off markers in the minimap, so that part is not an option. This gets especially annoying when they insist on showing the shortest path, again with no option to shut it off. Much of the hate for minimaps comes from the insistence that everyone wants to use it for everything when a lot people just want a way to get their basic bearings and can figure out the rest on their own. Even LFD becomes non-optional if the only realistic way you are ever going to find a group is by using it, so again, no to non-player generated insta travel outside of cities; if the players want it bad enough, they can take the time to implement themselves without making it functionally mandatory for everyone.
No mini map would make things feel more dangerous, real and mysterious. Just a compass. I got lost all of the time in EQ, and had a hell of a time finding my corpse if I died in a forest... good stuff.
Dungeon mini maps shouldn't exist either but you should be able to have some kind of bread-crumb trail to help you know where you have been.
I would say a compass with a basic minimap of the environment immediately around you. In the dungeon, maybe limit to what you can see with your available light source. Minimaps in their most basic form are a necessary evil when you are relying solely on forward vision and limited sound for the majority of your situational awareness.
Let's also be clear, I care almost nothing for story, lore or roleplaying, but I am definitely sick and tired of games becoming trivialized idiot-proof garbage that appeal to young children and morons. Why can't games be difficult again? If it's too difficult for people they'll either learn and adapt or fall away. That's ok with me.
You can have combat challenging without asking people to go through easy but tedious mapping exercises.
In fact, hard mode raiding is difficult. Has nothing to do with mapping.
So get someone else to do the mapping for you, and get a copy from them. I'm a full proponent of letting people make sellable, customized maps in game. Provides added depth to the game for those who want it, and an easy avenue for information in game for that don't care.
Now, if you want to do away with Neverwinter style ground trail, I'm all for that. And what I'm even more for is quests that aren't necessarily direction based. Instead of saying, "Hey this evil necromancer lives in that cave. go kill him!" Why not have NPC's say, "There's a necromancer raiding the dead in this region, we have to put a stop to it!" You get the quest to kill the necro but you have to figure out where he is, so you find other NPC and notes or corpse trails that demonstrate or hint at the fact that there was a crypt inside cave in the area. And you put two and two together and understand that corpses are kept in crypts, and you want to find that cave! Yay! This way, the map is still useful as a map, for identifying where you're going, but it isn't solving quests for you which I believe was the actual issue and not the existence of maps.
What if the player don't want to figure out where he is, but only want the combat challenge?
The popularity of LFD instanced dungeons seem to indicate that people would even do away the following of the arrow, and like to jump to where the action is.
LFD was a long progression of factors, I'll gladly detail it:
A tale of LFD in WoW
In the beginning groups were found by yelling in general chats, then the group would meet up somewhere and proceed to the dungeon. It was slow, but people accepted it.
RNG became excessively annoying for many players, lucky people would run something a few times and have what they needed, while others could spend months seeking a simple upgrade. This was a seed planted into the minds of the player base at this early stage.
Warlocks had the ability to summon. How nice, players figured that letting the lock and couple people go first could just summon the others. This turned into, "I don't fell like running, you go." People accepted it, but warlocks grew tired.
Summoning stones were introduced so that the responsibility of travel was not solely on the warlock and so that groups without a warlock could do the same. And the people rejoiced.
Tanking was a challenging and bitter role, you not only had to corral all the mobs, but you had to put up with people giving you the blame for just about everything. Fewer and fewer people went into the tanking role.
Now, RNG with an already low tank populace is a bad mixture. Tanks get burnt out because they get their gear and their offset gear, but others still need to run those dungeons. Ugh! Tanks were dropping like flies and finding a group would take most of your evening.
Early solution was to reduce RNG and introduce badges! Players loved it, you get loot if you put in dozens of hours! But it was a temporary stop gap.
Tanking was made easier and the need for careful pulls was reduced. This was an attempt to attract people to the tanking role. It helped. More people tanked, but it cause the next issue: more tanks competing for fewer raids spots. New tanks were pissed.
Finally the dungeon finder is born, tanks and healers get insta queues while dps had to wait JUST 20-40 minutes! And they were happy, because that's how bad it was to find a group without LFD.
More time passed and wait times went up as tanks didn't have any incentive to keep doing dungeons, they added more rewards for selecting tank or healer. They added cross realm LFD, they added group bonuses for pugging, they added a small amount of high level badges for completion upon daily.
All this combined into people who just wanted to get quick points (like severely geared raiders who didn't need or want to do the dungeons) to do them. So they only wanted to go faster and faster so they could be out of there sooner. It became a vicious cycle of buffing players, nerfing content, giving more and more incentive to do things. And it drove people to run faster and faster on the treadmill. In Blizzard's attempt to give people things to do, they gave them way too much to do. And because dailies reset each day, they had to do them NOW. So everything became about speed.
It snowballed into something that they couldn't control.
Vanilla WoW was slower paced, the gaps between tiers was smaller and this was really crucial to minimizing gear chasing.
It was easy to be a non-raider, non-crazed dungeon runner in Vanilla WoW. You could get a set of blues and feel pretty good about where you were compared to others. You could PvP without getting decimated by someone in T2 (actually vanilla pvp was a ton of fun because it was woefully unbalanced, but not due to gear).
Nowadays, the difference between blues and a raid set is tens of thousands of dps. Just too much inflation. The treadmill settings just kept going higher. And that's why LFD got nuts, too much to do, not enough time, too many things required, treadmill asking more of you constantly.
Let's also be clear, I care almost nothing for story, lore or roleplaying, but I am definitely sick and tired of games becoming trivialized idiot-proof garbage that appeal to young children and morons. Why can't games be difficult again? If it's too difficult for people they'll either learn and adapt or fall away. That's ok with me.
You can have combat challenging without asking people to go through easy but tedious mapping exercises.
In fact, hard mode raiding is difficult. Has nothing to do with mapping.
So get someone else to do the mapping for you, and get a copy from them. I'm a full proponent of letting people make sellable, customized maps in game. Provides added depth to the game for those who want it, and an easy avenue for information in game for that don't care.
Ask someone else, or have to buy it .. is a chore. I prefer to have it bake into the game.
If i want to buy stuff, i prefer to spend the time to optimize gear, not to find out how to get from point A to B. Plus, i don't want the travel time anyway. Just port me to the dungeon.
Originally posted by YoungCaesar Who would like an MMORPG with these characteristics? It would help tons with immersion and making it a real world, an unnescesary hassle for others... No ingame map with a marker for your toon so you can actually get lost, altho you would get a compass or something and a regular map
Unnecessary ? I did that text based RPG drawing maps on graph paper stuff and I don't think having a mini-map / quest marking system makes a game "better". So, yeh I would prefer that
I sometimes make spelling and grammar errors but I don't pretend it's because I'm using a phone
I'd definitely remove the minimap, it's really hard not to stare at and many games don't let you disable it.
Originally posted by Tazlor Am I the only one who realizes we live in a real world? I never understood this want for a living, breathing world online. Step outside and you've got a living, breathing world.
I don't know about you but many people don't really have too much interesting stuff in their "real world". It's not like we can drop our jobs and hop on a train and go to Finland to stare at fjords or something. But in video games, we can. It's also why people appreciate photographs and videos of things they haven't been to. Some people live in industrialized cities and some even worse. It's not like everyone lives in a house by the lake. I never understood this argument, it's like people assume everyone has a great amazing lush life and if they just went outside they could graze across a plain and hunt rabbits... Games are a form of escapism for a reason. Sometimes, also, to make friendships, since many people can't find like minded in real life.
Besides, many of these worlds house things we absolutely do not have in real life. You don't get a medieval fantasy world, or a world like EQ with dragons and lizards, or a world like EVE where you pilot spaceships, or a utopian world like Star Trek. Not to mention, these are the games in which you can die over and over and bend some rules.
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW Currently playing: GW2, EVE Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
Originally posted by YoungCaesar Who would like an MMORPG with these characteristics? It would help tons with immersion and making it a real world, an unnescesary hassle for others... No ingame map with a marker for your toon so you can actually get lost, altho you would get a compass or something and a regular map
Unnecessary ? I did that text based RPG drawing maps on graph paper stuff and I don't think having a mini-map / quest marking system makes a game "better". So, yeh I would prefer that
I did maps on graph paper for Might & Magic too. So? I would rather not. It is not challenging, not fun and a chore.
A min-map, and quest marking system would make the game better for me, and i play such games.
Let's also be clear, I care almost nothing for story, lore or roleplaying, but I am definitely sick and tired of games becoming trivialized idiot-proof garbage that appeal to young children and morons. Why can't games be difficult again? If it's too difficult for people they'll either learn and adapt or fall away. That's ok with me.
You can have combat challenging without asking people to go through easy but tedious mapping exercises.
In fact, hard mode raiding is difficult. Has nothing to do with mapping.
So get someone else to do the mapping for you, and get a copy from them. I'm a full proponent of letting people make sellable, customized maps in game. Provides added depth to the game for those who want it, and an easy avenue for information in game for that don't care.
Ask someone else, or have to buy it .. is a chore. I prefer to have it bake into the game.
If i want to buy stuff, i prefer to spend the time to optimize gear, not to find out how to get from point A to B. Plus, i don't want the travel time anyway. Just port me to the dungeon.
It's 5 minutes. If society has degraded to the point where you can't take 5 minutes occasionally to ask for help or look on the market for a player made map, we are in serious trouble. As for the teleporting, again, make it available as a player driven service; if enough people want it, someone will create a character that does nothing but sell that service. Not only does hardbaking it into the game cheapen the overall experience, but it limits the game as much not having those features at all. Not everyone wants the same thing markers on their maps and the presence of dev provided insta teleports effectively destroys any effort anyone makes to anything but the dungeons. That's fine for some games, but as a default, it's just as limiting not having any teleports at all; what you gain in short term player base you lose in long term sustainability, and yes, long term sustainability is an important factor when you start talking dev run servers vs a single player game on your own hard drive.
I played games with no map whatsoever, like Meridian 59 and Lineage.
But the thing is that no map didn't actually make the game more fun. There were other things that did, like darkness that actually stopped you from seeing anything without some kind of light (which made you easy to spot for everyone), large explorable worlds, difficulty that were challenging and so on.
If you want to re-introduce old features then there are a lot better things to bring back then the old "lost" thing.
Most games you can tailor your UI, just turn map off, and no one is forcing you to use instant travel. If you don't want to quick travel then don't. These are moot points just personal preferences.
Most games you can tailor your UI, just turn map off, and no one is forcing you to use instant travel. If you don't want to quick travel then don't. These are moot points just personal preferences.
Until they aren't options anymore. If the only way to get a group invite is to use quick travel, its not an option. If the only way to use the minimap is to have it filled with a bunch of, to you, useless markers, its not an option. That is where the difficulty comes in. The features are not bad in and of themselves, but the second you hardbake them into the game as dev implemented features, they are no longer options.
I'm all for NO mini-map .. and NO instant travel unless your class skill has it like Druid/Wizzard porting.. I'm all OK for maps that unlock discovered locations like GW2 does..
Originally posted by Tazlor Am I the only one who realizes we live in a real world? I never understood this want for a living, breathing world online. Step outside and you've got a living, breathing world.
A virtual world sounds good, but it is not necessarily more fun.
Personally i prefer a good game than a living breathing virtual world. If i want such a thing, i would be playing Second Life.
The only reason i am on this forum is that MMOs have been becoming better games over the year. I wouldn't waste my time if they are all like UO and EQ.
Please don't lump UO in with EQ. UO has fast travel, tons of solo gameplay, radar and support for map-related tools, and is designed around casual gameplay. It was also the first NA/EU MMO with a cash shop, the first to off Kronos/REX/PLEX type tokens, and doesn't have grindwalls, level restrictions or other barriers in front of mounts or housing. It's built on the foundation of everything that today's EQers despise.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by YoungCaesar Who would like an MMORPG with these characteristics? It would help tons with immersion and making it a real world, an unnescesary hassle for others... No ingame map with a marker for your toon so you can actually get lost, altho you would get a compass or something and a regular map
Not me.
I don't play games for a real world. i play games to escape from one.
Reading a map is trivial, easy, no challenge, and not my idea of fun gameplay. Heck, back in the Might & Magic days, i had to draw my own map. That does not really make the game more fun.
I would much rather jump to deep combat.
If all your looking for in an MMO is combat there will never be one that will satisfy, combat is just one piece of the puzzle. Aren't there already plenty of instant action level in 3 days click to travel around the world MMO's out today?
Most games you can tailor your UI, just turn map off, and no one is forcing you to use instant travel. If you don't want to quick travel then don't. These are moot points just personal preferences.
Until they aren't options anymore. If the only way to get a group invite is to use quick travel, its not an option. If the only way to use the minimap is to have it filled with a bunch of, to you, useless markers, its not an option. That is where the difficulty comes in. The features are not bad in and of themselves, but the second you hardbake them into the game as dev implemented features, they are no longer options.
This exactly. It's a gameplay style devs have to design for. It's like how you can't just NOT use the compass in Skyrim and Oblivion, the games are unplayable that way.
Imagine doing modern MMO quests without the markers, they don't give you instructions or directions.
Yes, I know, I want to impose MY idea of fun on everyone else, but that's where the fun and value comes from. You can't have players who are valued for their navigation skill if mini maps are simply a toggle. People will just take the path of least resistance.
"No minimap" was made obsolete by the internet. Translated, it means, "You have to look up the map online constantly. Enjoy the hassle, sucker!"
Slow travel was obsolete the moment it was imagined. A movie doesn't show you hours of travel because that's bad entertainment. A game should use the same smart travel a movie uses: after one scene there's a long enough travel sequence to get the impression of traveling, followed by establishing shots to give you the impression of the new location you've traveled to. Anything more than that (which takes ~2 minutes tops) is excessive. Travel is one of the most shallow mechanics in a game, so it should only last as long as it has a purpose to last (the purposes being (a) the impression of traveling, and (b) establishing the new location.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
"No minimap" was made obsolete by the internet. Translated, it means, "You have to look up the map online constantly. Enjoy the hassle, sucker!"
Slow travel was obsolete the moment it was imagined. A movie doesn't show you hours of travel because that's bad entertainment. A game should use the same smart travel a movie uses: after one scene there's a long enough travel sequence to get the impression of traveling, followed by establishing shots to give you the impression of the new location you've traveled to. Anything more than that (which takes ~2 minutes tops) is excessive. Travel is one of the most shallow mechanics in a game, so it should only last as long as it has a purpose to last (the purposes being (a) the impression of traveling, and (b) establishing the new location.)
............. When I say minimap I actually mean a map thats shows your location with a marker, making any kind of exploring obsolete.. Of course everyone can just look at the map online, so there should be an ingame map but WITH NO MARKER TRACKING YOUR EVERYMOVE... got it?
Your second paragraph is whats wrong with these generation of MMORPG gamers... they want quick gratification, like the game is a giant lobby youre just waiting in line to get into a battleground or a dungeon. IF there is no insta travel and theres open world pvp its give a whole nother layer to travelling you dont get in your "themeparks"...
Comments
This isn't a legitimate argument. People use it because it's the quickest path from point A to B. As humans, our psyche is developed that way; the path of least resistance is the most optimal. I'm sure there are many that use the LFD and would rather not, but it just makes their life that much harder because so many people already are.
Get rid of it and people will still have no issues creating groups. Simple as that.
You can have combat challenging without asking people to go through easy but tedious mapping exercises.
In fact, hard mode raiding is difficult. Has nothing to do with mapping.
LFD might be to some extent, but most modern mmos don't even give an option to turn off markers in the minimap, so that part is not an option. This gets especially annoying when they insist on showing the shortest path, again with no option to shut it off. Much of the hate for minimaps comes from the insistence that everyone wants to use it for everything when a lot people just want a way to get their basic bearings and can figure out the rest on their own. Even LFD becomes non-optional if the only realistic way you are ever going to find a group is by using it, so again, no to non-player generated insta travel outside of cities; if the players want it bad enough, they can take the time to implement themselves without making it functionally mandatory for everyone.
I would say a compass with a basic minimap of the environment immediately around you. In the dungeon, maybe limit to what you can see with your available light source. Minimaps in their most basic form are a necessary evil when you are relying solely on forward vision and limited sound for the majority of your situational awareness.
So get someone else to do the mapping for you, and get a copy from them. I'm a full proponent of letting people make sellable, customized maps in game. Provides added depth to the game for those who want it, and an easy avenue for information in game for that don't care.
Nevermind. Allowed myself to get sidetracked off of minimaps and insta travel.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
LFD was a long progression of factors, I'll gladly detail it:
A tale of LFD in WoW
In the beginning groups were found by yelling in general chats, then the group would meet up somewhere and proceed to the dungeon. It was slow, but people accepted it.
RNG became excessively annoying for many players, lucky people would run something a few times and have what they needed, while others could spend months seeking a simple upgrade. This was a seed planted into the minds of the player base at this early stage.
Warlocks had the ability to summon. How nice, players figured that letting the lock and couple people go first could just summon the others. This turned into, "I don't fell like running, you go." People accepted it, but warlocks grew tired.
Summoning stones were introduced so that the responsibility of travel was not solely on the warlock and so that groups without a warlock could do the same. And the people rejoiced.
Tanking was a challenging and bitter role, you not only had to corral all the mobs, but you had to put up with people giving you the blame for just about everything. Fewer and fewer people went into the tanking role.
Now, RNG with an already low tank populace is a bad mixture. Tanks get burnt out because they get their gear and their offset gear, but others still need to run those dungeons. Ugh! Tanks were dropping like flies and finding a group would take most of your evening.
Early solution was to reduce RNG and introduce badges! Players loved it, you get loot if you put in dozens of hours! But it was a temporary stop gap.
Tanking was made easier and the need for careful pulls was reduced. This was an attempt to attract people to the tanking role. It helped. More people tanked, but it cause the next issue: more tanks competing for fewer raids spots. New tanks were pissed.
Finally the dungeon finder is born, tanks and healers get insta queues while dps had to wait JUST 20-40 minutes! And they were happy, because that's how bad it was to find a group without LFD.
More time passed and wait times went up as tanks didn't have any incentive to keep doing dungeons, they added more rewards for selecting tank or healer. They added cross realm LFD, they added group bonuses for pugging, they added a small amount of high level badges for completion upon daily.
All this combined into people who just wanted to get quick points (like severely geared raiders who didn't need or want to do the dungeons) to do them. So they only wanted to go faster and faster so they could be out of there sooner. It became a vicious cycle of buffing players, nerfing content, giving more and more incentive to do things. And it drove people to run faster and faster on the treadmill. In Blizzard's attempt to give people things to do, they gave them way too much to do. And because dailies reset each day, they had to do them NOW. So everything became about speed.
It snowballed into something that they couldn't control.
Vanilla WoW was slower paced, the gaps between tiers was smaller and this was really crucial to minimizing gear chasing.
Lawbringer Pally Boots: 7 str, 20 sta, 13 int, 10 spi, 7 shadow res.
Judgement Pally boots: 13 str, 20 sta, 14 int, 8 spi, 10 fire res.
It was easy to be a non-raider, non-crazed dungeon runner in Vanilla WoW. You could get a set of blues and feel pretty good about where you were compared to others. You could PvP without getting decimated by someone in T2 (actually vanilla pvp was a ton of fun because it was woefully unbalanced, but not due to gear).
Nowadays, the difference between blues and a raid set is tens of thousands of dps. Just too much inflation. The treadmill settings just kept going higher. And that's why LFD got nuts, too much to do, not enough time, too many things required, treadmill asking more of you constantly.
Ask someone else, or have to buy it .. is a chore. I prefer to have it bake into the game.
If i want to buy stuff, i prefer to spend the time to optimize gear, not to find out how to get from point A to B. Plus, i don't want the travel time anyway. Just port me to the dungeon.
Unnecessary ? I did that text based RPG drawing maps on graph paper stuff and I don't think having a mini-map / quest marking system makes a game "better". So, yeh I would prefer that
I sometimes make spelling and grammar errors but I don't pretend it's because I'm using a phone
I'd definitely remove the minimap, it's really hard not to stare at and many games don't let you disable it.
I don't know about you but many people don't really have too much interesting stuff in their "real world". It's not like we can drop our jobs and hop on a train and go to Finland to stare at fjords or something. But in video games, we can. It's also why people appreciate photographs and videos of things they haven't been to. Some people live in industrialized cities and some even worse. It's not like everyone lives in a house by the lake. I never understood this argument, it's like people assume everyone has a great amazing lush life and if they just went outside they could graze across a plain and hunt rabbits... Games are a form of escapism for a reason. Sometimes, also, to make friendships, since many people can't find like minded in real life.
Besides, many of these worlds house things we absolutely do not have in real life. You don't get a medieval fantasy world, or a world like EQ with dragons and lizards, or a world like EVE where you pilot spaceships, or a utopian world like Star Trek. Not to mention, these are the games in which you can die over and over and bend some rules.
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
Currently playing: GW2, EVE
Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
I did maps on graph paper for Might & Magic too. So? I would rather not. It is not challenging, not fun and a chore.
A min-map, and quest marking system would make the game better for me, and i play such games.
It's 5 minutes. If society has degraded to the point where you can't take 5 minutes occasionally to ask for help or look on the market for a player made map, we are in serious trouble. As for the teleporting, again, make it available as a player driven service; if enough people want it, someone will create a character that does nothing but sell that service. Not only does hardbaking it into the game cheapen the overall experience, but it limits the game as much not having those features at all. Not everyone wants the same thing markers on their maps and the presence of dev provided insta teleports effectively destroys any effort anyone makes to anything but the dungeons. That's fine for some games, but as a default, it's just as limiting not having any teleports at all; what you gain in short term player base you lose in long term sustainability, and yes, long term sustainability is an important factor when you start talking dev run servers vs a single player game on your own hard drive.
I played games with no map whatsoever, like Meridian 59 and Lineage.
But the thing is that no map didn't actually make the game more fun. There were other things that did, like darkness that actually stopped you from seeing anything without some kind of light (which made you easy to spot for everyone), large explorable worlds, difficulty that were challenging and so on.
If you want to re-introduce old features then there are a lot better things to bring back then the old "lost" thing.
Most games you can tailor your UI, just turn map off, and no one is forcing you to use instant travel. If you don't want to quick travel then don't. These are moot points just personal preferences.
Until they aren't options anymore. If the only way to get a group invite is to use quick travel, its not an option. If the only way to use the minimap is to have it filled with a bunch of, to you, useless markers, its not an option. That is where the difficulty comes in. The features are not bad in and of themselves, but the second you hardbake them into the game as dev implemented features, they are no longer options.
I didnt say no map whatsoever, just one that doesnt have a GPS system marking where YOU are all the time...
And lol at just turning the map off, hey who wants a sandbox? I can just play wow with the map off!!!
Please don't lump UO in with EQ. UO has fast travel, tons of solo gameplay, radar and support for map-related tools, and is designed around casual gameplay. It was also the first NA/EU MMO with a cash shop, the first to off Kronos/REX/PLEX type tokens, and doesn't have grindwalls, level restrictions or other barriers in front of mounts or housing. It's built on the foundation of everything that today's EQers despise.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
This exactly. It's a gameplay style devs have to design for. It's like how you can't just NOT use the compass in Skyrim and Oblivion, the games are unplayable that way.
Imagine doing modern MMO quests without the markers, they don't give you instructions or directions.
Yes, I know, I want to impose MY idea of fun on everyone else, but that's where the fun and value comes from. You can't have players who are valued for their navigation skill if mini maps are simply a toggle. People will just take the path of least resistance.
"No minimap" was made obsolete by the internet. Translated, it means, "You have to look up the map online constantly. Enjoy the hassle, sucker!"
Slow travel was obsolete the moment it was imagined. A movie doesn't show you hours of travel because that's bad entertainment. A game should use the same smart travel a movie uses: after one scene there's a long enough travel sequence to get the impression of traveling, followed by establishing shots to give you the impression of the new location you've traveled to. Anything more than that (which takes ~2 minutes tops) is excessive. Travel is one of the most shallow mechanics in a game, so it should only last as long as it has a purpose to last (the purposes being (a) the impression of traveling, and (b) establishing the new location.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
............. When I say minimap I actually mean a map thats shows your location with a marker, making any kind of exploring obsolete.. Of course everyone can just look at the map online, so there should be an ingame map but WITH NO MARKER TRACKING YOUR EVERYMOVE... got it?
Your second paragraph is whats wrong with these generation of MMORPG gamers... they want quick gratification, like the game is a giant lobby youre just waiting in line to get into a battleground or a dungeon. IF there is no insta travel and theres open world pvp its give a whole nother layer to travelling you dont get in your "themeparks"...
Along these lines....
I would seriously love to see a title come out without Global chat