Its 2013, and unbeleivable graphics have came out. Bethesda and Zenimax have taken hold of these amazing capablities and made us an online game with them. Elder Scrolls Online. After seeing what EQ Next will look like, and its gameworld looking like last years Guildwars 2 gameworld in graphics, there will be no one in the way to make this the most realistic MMORPG of the year, and in fact, all time. I hope and have no doubt we will see more MMORPG's start to follow this amazing graphic outlook to push these games to look even more real and enjoyable. Just wanted to say Thankyou ESO!
ESO Screenshot
Eq Next Screenshot
There seems to be a lot of confusion about the difference between art style vs graphics in this thread.
People seem to get a real hard-on when you show them a screenshot with shiny armor and sun shining through trees, but other than that the ESO screenshot doesn't offer much that hasn't been done in other games graphically.
The EQ:N screenshot seems underwhelming at first glance until you start to notice the subtleties: the smokey haze in the cavern that masks the detail in the background, the heat distortion, the burning embers floating around and the burnt out embers falling to the ground as ash.
Also the two screen shots provided by the OP are two completely different environments, so lets compare similar enviroments:
EQ:N Forest Screen:
ESO Lava Lands:
EQ:N Lava:
So the EQ:N forest has the same rays of sun shining through the trees but more than that is the feeling of actually being in a forest: The haze of humidity and the sun cutting through the haze, the sunlight being tinted green as it passes through the canopy of the trees, the open area beyond the forest being washed out by the sudden brightness of full sunlight, the light illuminating the tops of trees making them appear to be a brighter green than the underside of the trees.
The ESO lava really seems bland in comparison(specifically the lava flow coming down the hill which looks like something you would see in WoW) to the EQ:N lava since the only real effect it seems to have on the evironment is an unrealistic glow. On the other hand the EQ:N screen shows the same subtleties I already mentioned: heat distortion, embers both burning and burnt-out and the smokey haze.
Really it comes down to a difference of art style and clearly EQ:N has the superior graphics. As a PS2 player I can confidently state that the Forgelight Engine can be absolutely beautiful and as EQ:N continues to be polished it will absolutely blow ESO away graphically. So please don't confuse art style and graphics as they are two completely different entities.
That has got to be the most biased comparisons I have ever heard to then end up claiming EQN has better graphics. You just said it yourself to not confuse art style with graphics, yet you are doing that in the same post. Such as the lava comparison. Eye candy isn't always better. You have to remember, EQN is a more colorful type of game in comparison to ESO. The light rays are in ESO as well, just not as aggressive.
I can continue to point out all the errors in your comparisons, however, it becomes very obvious you have no clue when you compare any of these graphics to WoW. I don't even think WoW is slightly able to be compared graphic wise to either of these games.
Here is a good picture of ESO using all the same effects just to a lesser extent since it's going for a more realistic look.
From a visual perspective, both engines have fairly decent graphics. Which is actually better is too hard to tell at this point.
Few last things to keep in mind is EQN is in very early development stages. Almost concept level. Any company can make a visually appealing presentation and take visually appealing pictures from a game. As for ESO, we don't know if these pictures are even done with the highest possible settings. Really, you should take all these things into consideration when trying to state which is better.
As I said before though, it's really a dumb argument. Both are fairly good either way, there really shouldn't be any reason to even compare graphics at all.
Art style is an entirely different matter, and that is simply based on preference.
Am i the only one who dislikes "Realistic" art styles?
They age really poorly, will look like crap within a few years compared to other games, and even when freshly released these games usually just don't look appealing to me, i absolutely love my stylized graphics and am glad EQN is going with them.
I'll still try ESO, but so far It looks quite poor to me visually.
Seen Age of Conan lately? 5-years-old and still looks better than most MMOs.
This "ages badly" thing is a left-over from the late 90's and early 2000's when both, CPUs and GPUs were changing drastically very quickly.
Last 5 years? Not so much...changes have been gradual and incremental. Check-out any of the top games from 2008 (Dead Space, Crysis Warhead, GT IV, etc.) they all still look great even compared to the latest single player PC games.
I wish people would just stop repeating this tired old marketing hype excuse for cartoony styles which are just a choice, nothing else.
AoC had higher than average spec requirements when it launched.
The graphics are so meh, that it is only an iota above unplayable.
Why are you listing single player games? They are designed to be run on high end hardware. That proves nothing in regards to MMOs! Cartoon art styles stand the test of time. Sorry, but that is just a cold hard fact! Maybe some time in the future there won't be any noticeable difference between high end realistic graphics from one year to the next, but it won't be anytime soon.
Wasn't it obvious from my post why I was listing single player games? No? I'll spell it out: hardware is not changing as quickly and drastically today as it was changing 10 years ago. The idea that attempts at photorealism using the best available PC hardware "don't age well" is a left-over notion from the days when the desktop PC hardware industry was changing quickly. Single-player, multiplayer... same hardware. Even something as neat and cutting edge as an Oculus Rift, has nothing to do with enhancing photorealism...it's just a monitor strapped to your head.
If anything that extra "hardware" consideration that dictates how far an MMO can go vs. what a single player game can do, bandwidth, is even more stagnant. The last 5 years hasn't been about going faster and faster. It has been about making the same Cable/DSL 20-30 Mbit speeds more accessible and widespread.
If you haven't noticed, the past little while has been all about tablets and cell-phone HW, integrated graphics for low power consumption in tablets and notebooks and cellular data stream speeds--none of which have anything to do with what a home desktop PC can render.
Capice?
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Am i the only one who dislikes "Realistic" art styles?
They age really poorly, will look like crap within a few years compared to other games, and even when freshly released these games usually just don't look appealing to me, i absolutely love my stylized graphics and am glad EQN is going with them.
I'll still try ESO, but so far It looks quite poor to me visually.
Seen Age of Conan lately? 5-years-old and still looks better than most MMOs.
This "ages badly" thing is a left-over from the late 90's and early 2000's when both, CPUs and GPUs were changing drastically very quickly.
Last 5 years? Not so much...changes have been gradual and incremental. Check-out any of the top games from 2008 (Dead Space, Crysis Warhead, GT IV, etc.) they all still look great even compared to the latest single player PC games.
I wish people would just stop repeating this tired old marketing hype excuse for cartoony styles which are just a choice, nothing else.
This might be true for singleplayer games, but It's not for MMOs, stylized graphics will always age better, MMOs still have the ugliest ground textures possibly imaginable, even newer games like FFXIV.
I'm sticking to the statement, It's not marketing hype, maybe It's not truth, but It's definitely my preference.
Nothing wrong with it being your preference. I don't have an anti-cartoon bias...quite the opposite. But it's not an "ages better because HW in 5 years will make today's photorealism look sick." It's an artistic decision that is neither better nor worse - it just is. It appeals to some and not others.
Southpark could have gone with FF-like CGI you know...but they didn't and their style works well for them.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Its 2013, and unbeleivable graphics have came out. Bethesda and Zenimax have taken hold of these amazing capablities and made us an online game with them. Elder Scrolls Online. After seeing what EQ Next will look like, and its gameworld looking like last years Guildwars 2 gameworld in graphics, there will be no one in the way to make this the most realistic MMORPG of the year, and in fact, all time. I hope and have no doubt we will see more MMORPG's start to follow this amazing graphic outlook to push these games to look even more real and enjoyable. Just wanted to say Thankyou ESO!
Yet Age of Conan is still better looking than then both.. so no ESO is not the most realistic looking AOC still is..
hmm, the OP must disagree. It's all a matter of opinion when it comes right down to it. You should go post a topic in the AoC forum that it's the best! It would be a battle unlike any other seen or discussed on this forum. OOH-RAH!
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Its 2013, and unbeleivable graphics have came out. Bethesda and Zenimax have taken hold of these amazing capablities and made us an online game with them. Elder Scrolls Online. After seeing what EQ Next will look like, and its gameworld looking like last years Guildwars 2 gameworld in graphics, there will be no one in the way to make this the most realistic MMORPG of the year, and in fact, all time. I hope and have no doubt we will see more MMORPG's start to follow this amazing graphic outlook to push these games to look even more real and enjoyable. Just wanted to say Thankyou ESO!
ESO Screenshot
Eq Next Screenshot
There seems to be a lot of confusion about the difference between art style vs graphics in this thread.
People seem to get a real hard-on when you show them a screenshot with shiny armor and sun shining through trees, but other than that the ESO screenshot doesn't offer much that hasn't been done in other games graphically.
The EQ:N screenshot seems underwhelming at first glance until you start to notice the subtleties: the smokey haze in the cavern that masks the detail in the background, the heat distortion, the burning embers floating around and the burnt out embers falling to the ground as ash.
Also the two screen shots provided by the OP are two completely different environments, so lets compare similar enviroments:
EQ:N Forest Screen:
ESO Lava Lands:
EQ:N Lava:
So the EQ:N forest has the same rays of sun shining through the trees but more than that is the feeling of actually being in a forest: The haze of humidity and the sun cutting through the haze, the sunlight being tinted green as it passes through the canopy of the trees, the open area beyond the forest being washed out by the sudden brightness of full sunlight, the light illuminating the tops of trees making them appear to be a brighter green than the underside of the trees.
The ESO lava really seems bland in comparison(specifically the lava flow coming down the hill which looks like something you would see in WoW) to the EQ:N lava since the only real effect it seems to have on the evironment is an unrealistic glow. On the other hand the EQ:N screen shows the same subtleties I already mentioned: heat distortion, embers both burning and burnt-out and the smokey haze.
Really it comes down to a difference of art style and clearly EQ:N has the superior graphics. As a PS2 player I can confidently state that the Forgelight Engine can be absolutely beautiful and as EQ:N continues to be polished it will absolutely blow ESO away graphically. So please don't confuse art style and graphics as they are two completely different entities.
That has got to be the most biased comparisons I have ever heard to then end up claiming EQN has better graphics. You just said it yourself to not confuse art style with graphics, yet you are doing that in the same post. Such as the lava comparison. Eye candy isn't always better. You have to remember, EQN is a more colorful type of game in comparison to ESO. The light rays are in ESO as well, just not as aggressive.
I can continue to point out all the errors in your comparisons, however, it becomes very obvious you have no clue when you compare any of these graphics to WoW. I don't even think WoW is slightly able to be compared graphic wise to either of these games.
Here is a good picture of ESO using all the same effects just to a lesser extent since it's going for a more realistic look.
From a visual perspective, both engines have fairly decent graphics. Which is actually better is too hard to tell at this point.
Few last things to keep in mind is EQN is in very early development stages. Almost concept level. Any company can make a visually appealing presentation and take visually appealing pictures from a game. As for ESO, we don't know if these pictures are even done with the highest possible settings. Really, you should take all these things into consideration when trying to state which is better.
As I said before though, it's really a dumb argument. Both are fairly good either way, there really shouldn't be any reason to even compare graphics at all.
Art style is an entirely different matter, and that is simply based on preference.
Sorry but... Elder Scrolls looks NOTHING like in those screenshots in the real game.
I just saw 5 long video leaks. Mid settings.. and OH BOY.
If that was anyway representative... Elder Scrolls Online is THE singlemost ugly MMO I have EVER seen.
Sorry. I was such a fan, from the screenshots. But the REAL game... Grey, grey and oh look more grey and brown. 1000 hobos dressed in grey sackcloth, MINDLESS hackfest... OMG OMG OMG...
I am still in shock over how BAD the game looks in real. And it't NOT because some idiot turned it all down to low.
Sorry... I just feel sick simply watching it. ALl days I ranted against EQN disney and pro TESO... but seeing this converted me. Like totally,. Better colourful Disney than this overly depressing GREYfest. It was like all life and colour had been drained and sucked out of the world. How did they even DO those high rez screenshots which... look like a totally different game, for heavens sake!
sigh
I am so gonna get bashed for this...
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Sorry but... Elder Scrolls looks NOTHING like in those screenshots in the real game.
I just saw 5 long video leaks. Mid settings.. and OH BOY.
If that was anyway representative... Elder Scrolls Online is THE singlemost ugly MMO I have EVER seen.
Sorry. I was such a fan, from the screenshots. But the REAL game... Grey, grey and oh look more grey and brown. 1000 hobos dressed in grey sackcloth, MINDLESS hackfest... OMG OMG OMG...
I am still in shock over how BAD the game looks in real. And it't NOT because some idiot turned it all down to low.
Sorry... I just feel sick simply watching it. ALl days I ranted against EQN disney and pro TESO... but seeing this converted me. Like totally,. Better colourful Disney than this overly depressing GREYfest. It was like all life and colour had been drained and sucked out of the world. How did they even DO those high rez screenshots which... look like a totally different game, for heavens sake!
sigh
I am so gonna get bashed for this...
1. Don't get so caught-up in the hype and you won't be so disappointed.
2. I saw the same videos - 1600 X 900 @ Medium preset is ugly. Period. I play everything at 1920 X 1200 Ultra... I'll just have to wait and see what it really looks like with my usual settings.
3. Muted earth tones is TES. If you've ever actually played any TES games without visual mods, you'd know that (as I said way back in post # 63 of this thread.) They've never been known for "pretty" nor "photorealism."
4. No reason to bash you: you believed the hype in this thread and now you know better... Welcome back to reality.
PS: just saw your new thread in the EQN forum. Cya back here when the next thing in EQN pisses you off lol.
Personally, I've always liked them both. I don't need to bash one to like the other one. I guess I'm a polygamerist.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
do you not understand what the MMO RPG stands for in MMORPG?...Massive..TESO is massive..Multiplayer..Its Mulitplayer..its Online and its a RolePlaying Game.
Frankly I don't see how EQNext can justify calling them selves a roleplaying game with less than immersive characters..I mean..I guess when i was watching Saturday morning Cartoons as a child I was in fact roleplaying ..yea?
Ultima online was a mmorpg and some very strong and great RP comminutes where built there. Whole city's where build races created ( even though races were apart of the game. ) there were allot of freedoms in that game.
I know most of the current generation my not have play UO but it was unlike most standard games
Originally posted by kingotnw The EQN screen shot looks far more appealing to me anyways. I like exaggerated features in gaming. If I want things to look like the do in real life, all I need to do is look around me.
personally, if i am going to play a game like EQN that is supposedly more like a simulated world than it is a video game, i would think having realistic graphics would be much more fitting and immersive for that type of world.
nevermind everquest having cartoon graphics is no different than if TESO had cartoon graphics, it just doesn't fit either franchise.
Its 2013, and unbeleivable graphics have came out. Bethesda and Zenimax have taken hold of these amazing capablities and made us an online game with them. Elder Scrolls Online. After seeing what EQ Next will look like, and its gameworld looking like last years Guildwars 2 gameworld in graphics, there will be no one in the way to make this the most realistic MMORPG of the year, and in fact, all time. I hope and have no doubt we will see more MMORPG's start to follow this amazing graphic outlook to push these games to look even more real and enjoyable. Just wanted to say Thankyou ESO!
ESO Screenshot
Eq Next Screenshot
There seems to be a lot of confusion about the difference between art style vs graphics in this thread.
People seem to get a real hard-on when you show them a screenshot with shiny armor and sun shining through trees, but other than that the ESO screenshot doesn't offer much that hasn't been done in other games graphically.
The EQ:N screenshot seems underwhelming at first glance until you start to notice the subtleties: the smokey haze in the cavern that masks the detail in the background, the heat distortion, the burning embers floating around and the burnt out embers falling to the ground as ash.
Also the two screen shots provided by the OP are two completely different environments, so lets compare similar enviroments:
EQ:N Forest Screen:
ESO Lava Lands:
EQ:N Lava:
So the EQ:N forest has the same rays of sun shining through the trees but more than that is the feeling of actually being in a forest: The haze of humidity and the sun cutting through the haze, the sunlight being tinted green as it passes through the canopy of the trees, the open area beyond the forest being washed out by the sudden brightness of full sunlight, the light illuminating the tops of trees making them appear to be a brighter green than the underside of the trees.
The ESO lava really seems bland in comparison(specifically the lava flow coming down the hill which looks like something you would see in WoW) to the EQ:N lava since the only real effect it seems to have on the evironment is an unrealistic glow. On the other hand the EQ:N screen shows the same subtleties I already mentioned: heat distortion, embers both burning and burnt-out and the smokey haze.
Really it comes down to a difference of art style and clearly EQ:N has the superior graphics. As a PS2 player I can confidently state that the Forgelight Engine can be absolutely beautiful and as EQ:N continues to be polished it will absolutely blow ESO away graphically. So please don't confuse art style and graphics as they are two completely different entities.
That has got to be the most biased comparisons I have ever heard to then end up claiming EQN has better graphics. You just said it yourself to not confuse art style with graphics, yet you are doing that in the same post. Such as the lava comparison. Eye candy isn't always better. You have to remember, EQN is a more colorful type of game in comparison to ESO. The light rays are in ESO as well, just not as aggressive.
I can continue to point out all the errors in your comparisons, however, it becomes very obvious you have no clue when you compare any of these graphics to WoW. I don't even think WoW is slightly able to be compared graphic wise to either of these games.
Here is a good picture of ESO using all the same effects just to a lesser extent since it's going for a more realistic look.
From a visual perspective, both engines have fairly decent graphics. Which is actually better is too hard to tell at this point.
Few last things to keep in mind is EQN is in very early development stages. Almost concept level. Any company can make a visually appealing presentation and take visually appealing pictures from a game. As for ESO, we don't know if these pictures are even done with the highest possible settings. Really, you should take all these things into consideration when trying to state which is better.
As I said before though, it's really a dumb argument. Both are fairly good either way, there really shouldn't be any reason to even compare graphics at all.
Art style is an entirely different matter, and that is simply based on preference.
Sorry but... Elder Scrolls looks NOTHING like in those screenshots in the real game.
I just saw 5 long video leaks. Mid settings.. and OH BOY.
If that was anyway representative... Elder Scrolls Online is THE singlemost ugly MMO I have EVER seen.
Sorry. I was such a fan, from the screenshots. But the REAL game... Grey, grey and oh look more grey and brown. 1000 hobos dressed in grey sackcloth, MINDLESS hackfest... OMG OMG OMG...
I am still in shock over how BAD the game looks in real. And it't NOT because some idiot turned it all down to low.
Sorry... I just feel sick simply watching it. ALl days I ranted against EQN disney and pro TESO... but seeing this converted me. Like totally,. Better colourful Disney than this overly depressing GREYfest. It was like all life and colour had been drained and sucked out of the world. How did they even DO those high rez screenshots which... look like a totally different game, for heavens sake!
sigh
I am so gonna get bashed for this...
Ya, I saw the same videos as well. Medium is not high. If i remember correctly they said they are going to have the graphics in TESO scale pretty far so lower end users are able to play as well. Do you know what that means? That means, that there can be a very large difference in graphic quality between medium and high. I said it in my last post, and you ignored it. I said, don't jump to conclusions based on pictures and videos that are not at the highest settings.
As for the tones of the game, it looks exactly like any TES game I ever played. You must not be familiar with the series very well if the tones of the world surprised you.
As for a mindless hackf fest, I already told you on the other forum, it is like that because they are spamming the freaking attack button and really not doing anything else. What else do you expect when someone plays a game like that? Last but no least, the combat is pretty much like passed TES games, so again, you must not have ever played a TES game. In this case, what the heck where you even expecting?
Again converted this and converted that, why the heck can't you simply wait for BOTH! It really isn't that hard to do you know, you do not have to choose either or. Wahhh this is bettter .... wahhhh no this is better ... wahhh no this has to many greys! .. .wahhh no this is tooo colorful!. Give me a freaken break here >.>
Why do the screenshots look so different? Because the settings scale the games graphics pretty far compared to most games. TERA has a really good example of this. If you put that game at the lowest graphics, it's one of the ugliest games ever. Medium it look like any other game. At High the game looks amazing. I imagine it's going to be somewhat the same for TESO. If you want ALL the eye candy, you are probably going to need a somewhat decent computer.
As for bashing, no I am not bashing you entirely, instead, please try to be a little more realistic. Your expectations of TESO obviously through you way off. Again, I really am not sure what you where expecting.
I really don't understand what problems people have.
There are two games on their way, one you like and praise and one you hate and bash in every thread. Aren't you happy you have choice. It could be worse, you could have no choice at all. Just pick the graphics you like and be happy.
No complaining will change the direction that developers chose.
And lots of people have problems with using tough words like realistic and stylized. So many people mess those up. Realism is not in high resolution textures. The second the game abandons full color pallette and goes with all gray it becomes stylized.
I really don't understand what problems people have.
There are two games on their way, one you like and praise and one you hate and bash in every thread. Aren't you happy you have choice. It could be worse, you could have no choice at all. Just pick the graphics you like and be happy.
No complaining will change the direction that developers chose.
And lots of people have problems with using tough words like realistic and stylized. So many people mess those up. Realism is not in high resolution textures. The second the game abandons full color pallette and goes with all gray it becomes stylized.
You sir win this thread....
I think the OP is more like "I like the graphics of game X therefore all games should look like game X"... I say, stick with game X and don't bother with trying to convince the world that game Y is bad.
How about reserving judgement until release? ESO's grittier look is certainly far more appealing to me than what little I have seen of EQN, but there is no doubt that SOE have come up with some interesting concepts that will quite literally change the gaming landscape. And what's wrong with a little variety? After a few hours in Tamriel on my Khajiit, a quick foray into Norrath with a cartoon Kerran might be just what the doctor ordered.
I finally managed to watch the new footage in 1080p quality. I think it looks a lot like Skyrim, only a bit more colourful and with less polygons. You have to consider that the game probably still lacks most of the shaders. I think the gameplay looks pretty generic but for beta footage the graphics look flawless. At least you can say that the art design looks like The Elder Scrolls and is not alienating its players with graphics that look like Disney or the Clone Wars TV-series, like EQN does.
Whar if your claim is right and eso is very realistic and all we, the players dont want realism but escape from it?
First, no one voted you spokesman for the players and what they want. Second, having realistic art style and playing to escape reality are two different things. Both games offer escape-magic is real, you fight monster, etc=escape. Everyone has the right to their opinion on what art style they prefer and the right to post it here on forum. Don't see how anyone is wrong with their preference, so argument seems kind of pointless about it.
That said, I would've preferred a more realistic art style with EQN and they could have and still kept the gfx reasonable to play on lower systems or do destructables (as art style has nothing to do with gfx use, but they want the WoW crowd and if we want to play EQN for all their new, interesting features, we will have to accept it.
Whar if your claim is right and eso is very realistic and all we, the players dont want realism but escape from it?
First, no one voted you spokesman for the players and what they want. Second, having realistic art style and playing to escape reality are two different things. Both games offer escape-magic is real, you fight monster, etc=escape. Everyone has the right to their opinion on what art style they prefer and the right to post it here on forum. Don't see how anyone is wrong with their preference, so argument seems kind of pointless about it.
That said, I would've preferred a more realistic art style with EQN and they could have and still kept the gfx reasonable to play on lower systems or do destructables (as art style has nothing to do with gfx use, but they want the WoW crowd and if we want to play EQN for all their new, interesting features, we will have to accept it.
I was about to ask if anyone has ever met an Elf in person lol. I thought i was escaping from reality with just about any game regardless of the graphics or art direction :-).
Please stop calling TES:O a MMORPG. The developers themselves have stated its a co-op rpg.
Thanks.
100 time this.
Plus it feels like the world of ESO is full of instances. It's 2013 and you can't be more themparkish than that unless you're making a F2P game.
I was first a fanboy of ESO coz i thought they were going more for an open world sandbox mmorpg just like the way we play the elder scrolls series.
Elderscroll started to dumb down from morrowind. Now that it is online, they are dumbing it down for the wow players. That's how low it became. I can't believe they use the same ol hotbar system that you can find in every single tab target mmorpg's.
Its 2013, and unbeleivable graphics have came out. Bethesda and Zenimax have taken hold of these amazing capablities and made us an online game with them. Elder Scrolls Online. After seeing what EQ Next will look like, and its gameworld looking like last years Guildwars 2 gameworld in graphics, there will be no one in the way to make this the most realistic MMORPG of the year, and in fact, all time. I hope and have no doubt we will see more MMORPG's start to follow this amazing graphic outlook to push these games to look even more real and enjoyable. Just wanted to say Thankyou ESO!
ESO Screenshot
Eq Next Screenshot
This represents now
This represents the future
These two things will not be the same five years from now, which is the reason why "realistic" is a temporary plus for an MMO. SoE even stated that they went with a stylized look that will last 15-20 years with graphical improvements. Not to mention the destructible world part.
Also, Not only will the NPCs in EQN be voice with facial animations, so will the players. With a more realistic look those animations would look bad, or not as good.
I will be playing ESO as well when it comes out because it looks really fun. There is more to an MMO than graphics though so hopefully ESO delivers on other aspects.
Can we use ENB + Mods for TESO ? if no then graphics gets dated within 2 years. 2014 there is a high chanse of a line of GPU's comming. Games developt for PC can be tuned up a notch again.
I rather have a GW2 / WoW / EQN engine so its still feels good in 6 years then a realistic mmo that is mostly horrible in 2 years.
I can't agree with you more. Elder Scrolls was and is really good and successful series. I can't wait for ESO to come out and these graphics are like the top of the cream as well.
Please stop calling TES:O a MMORPG. The developers themselves have stated its a co-op rpg.
Thanks.
100 time this.
Plus it feels like the world of ESO is full of instances. It's 2013 and you can't be more themparkish than that unless you're making a F2P game.
I was first a fanboy of ESO coz i thought they were going more for an open world sandbox mmorpg just like the way we play the elder scrolls series.
Elderscroll started to dumb down from morrowind. Now that it is online, they are dumbing it down for the wow players. That's how low it became. I can't believe they use the same ol hotbar system that you can find in every single tab target mmorpg's.
ROFL, you have no idea what you are talking about. First of all, it isn't full of instances and doesn't feel like it is. Where in the world are you getting your info from?
Second, it is most certainly an MMORPG. The difference between a mutliplayer and a massive multiplayer is the number of players involved. ESO, is a massive mutliplayer game because it involves a massive amount of players.
Third, your statement on it can't be more themeparkish is based on false information to begin with. Course, I am not saying it will not be a themepark, but it certainly isn't nearly as bad as you are letting on. It will be as much as a themepark as Skyrim is.
Fourth, a hotbar doesn't automatically make it the same system lol. Also, there is nothing wrong with assigning keys to skills. It is exactly like an elder scrolls game, accept now you have a few extra abilities that can be used by assigning them to a hotbar. Not sure why that is such a big deal to you. It adds more choices and personality to the game.
Originally posted by dustyhayes Cartoony graphics & aesthetics tend to age better, just look at WoW & GW1, WoW still looks better than GW1.
Not from my view point. WoW almost reminds me of PS1 graphics, maybe a little better. GW1 looks more along the line of PS2 graphics.
I really am not even sure how anyone uses the excuse that cartoon graphics & aesthetics age better. What makes them age better? That really makes no sense.
I think the only game that has aged extremely well is crysis, and that is not cartoony in anyway. Even though that game is old, it still looks better then most games today.
I mean let me put it another way, if a game looks photorealistic , how can those graphics ever age bad? Unless reality itself starts to look better, that isn't going to happen. So we could technically say, photorealistic graphics & aesthetics age better.
Course those type of graphics can't be put into an mmo as of yet. The point though is to prove, cartoon graphics aging better is a load of crap. It's just what people want to say to justify it. To convince themselves and everyone else around them, that it's ok.
Originally posted by dustyhayes Cartoony graphics & aesthetics tend to age better, just look at WoW & GW1, WoW still looks better than GW1.
Not from my view point. WoW almost reminds me of PS1 graphics, maybe a little better. GW1 looks more along the line of PS2 graphics.
I really am not even sure how anyone uses the excuse that cartoon graphics & aesthetics age better. What makes them age better? That really makes no sense.
I think the only game that has aged extremely well is crysis, and that is not cartoony in anyway. Even though that game is old, it still looks better then most games today.
I mean let me put it another way, if a game looks photorealistic , how can those graphics ever age bad? Unless reality itself starts to look better, that isn't going to happen. So we could technically say, photorealistic graphics & aesthetics age better.
Course those type of graphics can't be put into an mmo as of yet. The point though is to prove, cartoon graphics aging better is a load of crap. It's just what people want to say to justify it. To convince themselves and everyone else around them, that it's ok.
It's amazing how often people keep bringing that "cartoons age better" thing up. I've tried my best to debunk it several times but I've just given up. It's just one of those things I guess.
If we were talking about the best attempt at photorealism a home PC could manage in 1996 vs. the same in 2006, there was something to that back then. But for the last 5 years or more, the distinction is between best and bester.
Crysis is an excellent example and so is GT IV and Dead Space, both 2008 games that still look great... as does Age of Conan.
It's just an artistic decision to go with one style vs. another one--nothing more. Wildstar and EQN chose to go one way and ESO chose another way. People are just pissed at EQN because traditionally that franchise went for cutting edge graphics with an emphasis on realism. Wildstar gets a pass because they're a brand new IP. If ESO had done the same the crying and cussing would never stop here either.
I'm OK with either style as long as it's done well... although I do tend to enjoy the ESO style more. But it's not a deal breaker for me either way.
As far as I remember, WOW was the first MMO to go cartoony and it worked for them because we were already used to that style in the Warcraft RTS games. I'm actually surprised that more MMOs didn't copy their art style--especially with the resurgence of all things comic book in the past 10 years and all the cartoons for adult TV shows spawned by the Simpsons.
Whatever... but age better? Nope, that's not it lol. As if cartoons didn't age... look at Steamboat Willie, Felix the Cat or even Snow White.. now look at Shreck, Monsters Inc and Toy Story... I see aging there
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
It's amazing how often people keep bringing that "cartoons age better" thing up. I've tried my best to debunk it several times but I've just given up. It's just one of those things I guess.
If we were talking about the best attempt at photorealism a home PC could manage in 1996 vs. the same in 2006, there was something to that back then. But for the last 5 years or more, the distinction is between best and bester.
Crysis is an excellent example and so is GT IV and Dead Space, both 2008 games that still look great... as does Age of Conan.
It's just an artistic decision to go with one style vs. another one--nothing more. Wildstar and EQN chose to go one way and ESO chose another way. People are just pissed at EQN because traditionally that franchise went for cutting edge graphics with an emphasis on realism. Wildstar gets a pass because they're a brand new IP. If ESO had done the same the crying and cussing would never stop here either.
I'm OK with either style as long as it's done well... although I do tend to enjoy the ESO style more. But it's not a deal breaker for me either way.
As far as I remember, WOW was the first MMO to go cartoony and it worked for them because we were already used to that style in the Warcraft RTS games. I'm actually surprised that more MMOs didn't copy their art style--especially with the resurgence of all things comic book in the past 10 years and all the cartoons for adult TV shows spawned by the Simpsons.
Whatever... but age better? Nope, that's not it lol. As if cartoons didn't age... look at Steamboat Willie, Felix the Cat or even Snow White.. now look at Shreck, Monsters Inc and Toy Story... I see aging there
Ya, I always seem to be surprised by what people say. Every time I think people can't make any less sense, they always prove me wrong -.-
Sometimes when I read through these forums a lot of my responses in real life are ... "WHAT!? O.o .... What!? o.O ... How ... How does this make any sense????"
If we really think about it, cartoon aesthetics are subject to more aging compared to realistic, because realism will always remain the same thing, it never aesthetically changes unless there is some type of improvement in technology that greatly enhances the realism. Cartoons however, actually change in style over time. Just as you pointed out the difference between Felix the Cat and current cartoons.
I don't know why people can't just simply be happy. I think both ESO and EQN look good. But nope, people love to bicker back and fourth, even if what they say is borderline stupid.
Comments
That has got to be the most biased comparisons I have ever heard to then end up claiming EQN has better graphics. You just said it yourself to not confuse art style with graphics, yet you are doing that in the same post. Such as the lava comparison. Eye candy isn't always better. You have to remember, EQN is a more colorful type of game in comparison to ESO. The light rays are in ESO as well, just not as aggressive.
I can continue to point out all the errors in your comparisons, however, it becomes very obvious you have no clue when you compare any of these graphics to WoW. I don't even think WoW is slightly able to be compared graphic wise to either of these games.
Here is a good picture of ESO using all the same effects just to a lesser extent since it's going for a more realistic look.
http://media.pcgamer.com/files/2012/10/Elder-Scrolls-Online-Flame-Atronach.jpg (Keep in mind it's an older picture, things probably look even better now.)
From a visual perspective, both engines have fairly decent graphics. Which is actually better is too hard to tell at this point.
Few last things to keep in mind is EQN is in very early development stages. Almost concept level. Any company can make a visually appealing presentation and take visually appealing pictures from a game. As for ESO, we don't know if these pictures are even done with the highest possible settings. Really, you should take all these things into consideration when trying to state which is better.
As I said before though, it's really a dumb argument. Both are fairly good either way, there really shouldn't be any reason to even compare graphics at all.
Art style is an entirely different matter, and that is simply based on preference.
Wasn't it obvious from my post why I was listing single player games? No? I'll spell it out: hardware is not changing as quickly and drastically today as it was changing 10 years ago. The idea that attempts at photorealism using the best available PC hardware "don't age well" is a left-over notion from the days when the desktop PC hardware industry was changing quickly. Single-player, multiplayer... same hardware. Even something as neat and cutting edge as an Oculus Rift, has nothing to do with enhancing photorealism...it's just a monitor strapped to your head.
If anything that extra "hardware" consideration that dictates how far an MMO can go vs. what a single player game can do, bandwidth, is even more stagnant. The last 5 years hasn't been about going faster and faster. It has been about making the same Cable/DSL 20-30 Mbit speeds more accessible and widespread.
If you haven't noticed, the past little while has been all about tablets and cell-phone HW, integrated graphics for low power consumption in tablets and notebooks and cellular data stream speeds--none of which have anything to do with what a home desktop PC can render.
Capice?
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Nothing wrong with it being your preference. I don't have an anti-cartoon bias...quite the opposite. But it's not an "ages better because HW in 5 years will make today's photorealism look sick." It's an artistic decision that is neither better nor worse - it just is. It appeals to some and not others.
Southpark could have gone with FF-like CGI you know...but they didn't and their style works well for them.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
hmm, the OP must disagree. It's all a matter of opinion when it comes right down to it. You should go post a topic in the AoC forum that it's the best! It would be a battle unlike any other seen or discussed on this forum. OOH-RAH!
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Sorry but... Elder Scrolls looks NOTHING like in those screenshots in the real game.
I just saw 5 long video leaks. Mid settings.. and OH BOY.
If that was anyway representative... Elder Scrolls Online is THE singlemost ugly MMO I have EVER seen.
Sorry. I was such a fan, from the screenshots. But the REAL game... Grey, grey and oh look more grey and brown. 1000 hobos dressed in grey sackcloth, MINDLESS hackfest... OMG OMG OMG...
I am still in shock over how BAD the game looks in real. And it't NOT because some idiot turned it all down to low.
Sorry... I just feel sick simply watching it. ALl days I ranted against EQN disney and pro TESO... but seeing this converted me. Like totally,. Better colourful Disney than this overly depressing GREYfest. It was like all life and colour had been drained and sucked out of the world. How did they even DO those high rez screenshots which... look like a totally different game, for heavens sake!
sigh
I am so gonna get bashed for this...
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
1. Don't get so caught-up in the hype and you won't be so disappointed.
2. I saw the same videos - 1600 X 900 @ Medium preset is ugly. Period. I play everything at 1920 X 1200 Ultra... I'll just have to wait and see what it really looks like with my usual settings.
3. Muted earth tones is TES. If you've ever actually played any TES games without visual mods, you'd know that (as I said way back in post # 63 of this thread.) They've never been known for "pretty" nor "photorealism."
4. No reason to bash you: you believed the hype in this thread and now you know better... Welcome back to reality.
PS: just saw your new thread in the EQN forum. Cya back here when the next thing in EQN pisses you off lol.
Personally, I've always liked them both. I don't need to bash one to like the other one. I guess I'm a polygamerist.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Ultima online was a mmorpg and some very strong and great RP comminutes where built there. Whole city's where build races created ( even though races were apart of the game. ) there were allot of freedoms in that game.
I know most of the current generation my not have play UO but it was unlike most standard games
personally, if i am going to play a game like EQN that is supposedly more like a simulated world than it is a video game, i would think having realistic graphics would be much more fitting and immersive for that type of world.
nevermind everquest having cartoon graphics is no different than if TESO had cartoon graphics, it just doesn't fit either franchise.
Ya, I saw the same videos as well. Medium is not high. If i remember correctly they said they are going to have the graphics in TESO scale pretty far so lower end users are able to play as well. Do you know what that means? That means, that there can be a very large difference in graphic quality between medium and high. I said it in my last post, and you ignored it. I said, don't jump to conclusions based on pictures and videos that are not at the highest settings.
As for the tones of the game, it looks exactly like any TES game I ever played. You must not be familiar with the series very well if the tones of the world surprised you.
As for a mindless hackf fest, I already told you on the other forum, it is like that because they are spamming the freaking attack button and really not doing anything else. What else do you expect when someone plays a game like that? Last but no least, the combat is pretty much like passed TES games, so again, you must not have ever played a TES game. In this case, what the heck where you even expecting?
Again converted this and converted that, why the heck can't you simply wait for BOTH! It really isn't that hard to do you know, you do not have to choose either or. Wahhh this is bettter .... wahhhh no this is better ... wahhh no this has to many greys! .. .wahhh no this is tooo colorful!. Give me a freaken break here >.>
Why do the screenshots look so different? Because the settings scale the games graphics pretty far compared to most games. TERA has a really good example of this. If you put that game at the lowest graphics, it's one of the ugliest games ever. Medium it look like any other game. At High the game looks amazing. I imagine it's going to be somewhat the same for TESO. If you want ALL the eye candy, you are probably going to need a somewhat decent computer.
As for bashing, no I am not bashing you entirely, instead, please try to be a little more realistic. Your expectations of TESO obviously through you way off. Again, I really am not sure what you where expecting.
I hope it's just video recording problem. Because to be honest, I'm not all that impress about the game play demo video.
And I dont' know about you. But having a bad PC to use for an official live demo is werid, so I'm not sure it is a good excuse.
I'm not bashing TESO. I'm just saying the graphic in the live demo look nothing like those in the screenshot.
I really don't understand what problems people have.
There are two games on their way, one you like and praise and one you hate and bash in every thread. Aren't you happy you have choice. It could be worse, you could have no choice at all. Just pick the graphics you like and be happy.
No complaining will change the direction that developers chose.
And lots of people have problems with using tough words like realistic and stylized. So many people mess those up. Realism is not in high resolution textures. The second the game abandons full color pallette and goes with all gray it becomes stylized.
You sir win this thread....
I think the OP is more like "I like the graphics of game X therefore all games should look like game X"... I say, stick with game X and don't bother with trying to convince the world that game Y is bad.
Also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oK8UTRgvJU
What are your other Hobbies?
Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...
I finally managed to watch the new footage in 1080p quality. I think it looks a lot like Skyrim, only a bit more colourful and with less polygons. You have to consider that the game probably still lacks most of the shaders. I think the gameplay looks pretty generic but for beta footage the graphics look flawless. At least you can say that the art design looks like The Elder Scrolls and is not alienating its players with graphics that look like Disney or the Clone Wars TV-series, like EQN does.
First, no one voted you spokesman for the players and what they want. Second, having realistic art style and playing to escape reality are two different things. Both games offer escape-magic is real, you fight monster, etc=escape. Everyone has the right to their opinion on what art style they prefer and the right to post it here on forum. Don't see how anyone is wrong with their preference, so argument seems kind of pointless about it.
That said, I would've preferred a more realistic art style with EQN and they could have and still kept the gfx reasonable to play on lower systems or do destructables (as art style has nothing to do with gfx use, but they want the WoW crowd and if we want to play EQN for all their new, interesting features, we will have to accept it.
I was about to ask if anyone has ever met an Elf in person lol. I thought i was escaping from reality with just about any game regardless of the graphics or art direction :-).
There Is Always Hope!
100 time this.
Plus it feels like the world of ESO is full of instances. It's 2013 and you can't be more themparkish than that unless you're making a F2P game.
I was first a fanboy of ESO coz i thought they were going more for an open world sandbox mmorpg just like the way we play the elder scrolls series.
Elderscroll started to dumb down from morrowind. Now that it is online, they are dumbing it down for the wow players. That's how low it became. I can't believe they use the same ol hotbar system that you can find in every single tab target mmorpg's.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
This represents now
This represents the future
These two things will not be the same five years from now, which is the reason why "realistic" is a temporary plus for an MMO. SoE even stated that they went with a stylized look that will last 15-20 years with graphical improvements. Not to mention the destructible world part.
Also, Not only will the NPCs in EQN be voice with facial animations, so will the players. With a more realistic look those animations would look bad, or not as good.
I will be playing ESO as well when it comes out because it looks really fun. There is more to an MMO than graphics though so hopefully ESO delivers on other aspects.
Can we use ENB + Mods for TESO ? if no then graphics gets dated within 2 years.
2014 there is a high chanse of a line of GPU's comming.
Games developt for PC can be tuned up a notch again.
I rather have a GW2 / WoW / EQN engine so its still feels good in 6 years then a realistic mmo that is mostly horrible in 2 years.
ROFL, you have no idea what you are talking about. First of all, it isn't full of instances and doesn't feel like it is. Where in the world are you getting your info from?
Second, it is most certainly an MMORPG. The difference between a mutliplayer and a massive multiplayer is the number of players involved. ESO, is a massive mutliplayer game because it involves a massive amount of players.
Third, your statement on it can't be more themeparkish is based on false information to begin with. Course, I am not saying it will not be a themepark, but it certainly isn't nearly as bad as you are letting on. It will be as much as a themepark as Skyrim is.
Fourth, a hotbar doesn't automatically make it the same system lol. Also, there is nothing wrong with assigning keys to skills. It is exactly like an elder scrolls game, accept now you have a few extra abilities that can be used by assigning them to a hotbar. Not sure why that is such a big deal to you. It adds more choices and personality to the game.
Not from my view point. WoW almost reminds me of PS1 graphics, maybe a little better. GW1 looks more along the line of PS2 graphics.
I really am not even sure how anyone uses the excuse that cartoon graphics & aesthetics age better. What makes them age better? That really makes no sense.
I think the only game that has aged extremely well is crysis, and that is not cartoony in anyway. Even though that game is old, it still looks better then most games today.
I mean let me put it another way, if a game looks photorealistic , how can those graphics ever age bad? Unless reality itself starts to look better, that isn't going to happen. So we could technically say, photorealistic graphics & aesthetics age better.
Course those type of graphics can't be put into an mmo as of yet. The point though is to prove, cartoon graphics aging better is a load of crap. It's just what people want to say to justify it. To convince themselves and everyone else around them, that it's ok.
It's amazing how often people keep bringing that "cartoons age better" thing up. I've tried my best to debunk it several times but I've just given up. It's just one of those things I guess.
If we were talking about the best attempt at photorealism a home PC could manage in 1996 vs. the same in 2006, there was something to that back then. But for the last 5 years or more, the distinction is between best and bester.
Crysis is an excellent example and so is GT IV and Dead Space, both 2008 games that still look great... as does Age of Conan.
It's just an artistic decision to go with one style vs. another one--nothing more. Wildstar and EQN chose to go one way and ESO chose another way. People are just pissed at EQN because traditionally that franchise went for cutting edge graphics with an emphasis on realism. Wildstar gets a pass because they're a brand new IP. If ESO had done the same the crying and cussing would never stop here either.
I'm OK with either style as long as it's done well... although I do tend to enjoy the ESO style more. But it's not a deal breaker for me either way.
As far as I remember, WOW was the first MMO to go cartoony and it worked for them because we were already used to that style in the Warcraft RTS games. I'm actually surprised that more MMOs didn't copy their art style--especially with the resurgence of all things comic book in the past 10 years and all the cartoons for adult TV shows spawned by the Simpsons.
Whatever... but age better? Nope, that's not it lol. As if cartoons didn't age... look at Steamboat Willie, Felix the Cat or even Snow White.. now look at Shreck, Monsters Inc and Toy Story... I see aging there
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Ya, I always seem to be surprised by what people say. Every time I think people can't make any less sense, they always prove me wrong -.-
Sometimes when I read through these forums a lot of my responses in real life are ... "WHAT!? O.o .... What!? o.O ... How ... How does this make any sense????"
If we really think about it, cartoon aesthetics are subject to more aging compared to realistic, because realism will always remain the same thing, it never aesthetically changes unless there is some type of improvement in technology that greatly enhances the realism. Cartoons however, actually change in style over time. Just as you pointed out the difference between Felix the Cat and current cartoons.
I don't know why people can't just simply be happy. I think both ESO and EQN look good. But nope, people love to bicker back and fourth, even if what they say is borderline stupid.