I did not hear much on this topic,so they are not going to have crafting tiers anymore,just tie it into leveling?
Well how is crafting going to play any roles then,this does not make sense.It sounds only like a corner cutting idea to do less work in designing the game.They remove the added crafting and they remove the added items/gear needed for each level,instead only having to make a lot less items and gear for tiers.Not that it wasn't much different in EQ2,after all ,everyone went for the top tiered gear,no different than Wow.
No matter it does not sound like a design to IMPROVE what they have already done before,it sounds just like corner cutting.This is like a double dagger,my other game FFXIV did the same thing,they took a greater FFXI system and dumbed it down,really disappointed me.It seems more and more like developers are going this route,making their games much easier and cheaper to design,instead of giving us better games to play.
Players will get VERY bored if they have little choice,example you know you only have one real spell to look forward to as a Wizard and really only one build and only one specific item to back up the weapon and style you are using.This is exactly what i see happening,each class will have one specific build that is just better and everyone will copy it.This was also mentioned in the panel by a person from the crowd and they sort of came off as saying,they are not perfect and will be constantly looking at the system.Then they went on to say,they can add one item that might change the entire scope,i don't buy that for a second because that one item might not pertain your build,only to ONE specific build,so maybe 2% of all the players.
This could all be a mess of listening to a panel that really was quite fake,we might not really know until the game is actually released.That is why that added guy joined the panel,i am sure he sat back and heard some mistakes the panel were leading to ,so he wanted to come up and give another side of the story to make sure everything comes off as positive rather than leave the crowd wondering if good or bad.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I give them credit for trying something new, it's brave. Ultimately, it will likely fail. GW2 tried this same thing in a few different ways and look at how fast it's dying off. Creating a game like this has to be crazy because you can spend years in development and have it fail in no time.
I wish they could find a way to release playable versions earlier while patching content, I mean how long has EQN been in development? AND it's STILL a year or two away? Nobody has any idea what the state of MMO games will be in that time and how much it has changed from the start of development for this game.
I know it's been beat down and people are getting tired of hearing it, but if you wanna be so "different" and "fresh" then why start by copying such atrocious graphics and combat? It's WoW meets Super heros with Ninja Gaiden hack-n-slash combat. That's some seriously terrible combos. A Disney Lion dressed in WoW armor fighting like he's in Diablo 3 or something... I had extremely high hopes for this game, but no. -(
I'd like more information on what these tiers actually mean, they haven't really explained anything about that yet other than that they exist and you meet goals to rise in tier.
Does a tier increase mean an all around increase in effectiveness? Does it just allow you to access new/ugpraded skills? They haven't really explained what going from tier 1 to tier 2 actually does.
I feel like there is potential for a horizontal leveling system if itemization really does scale on a massive scale. Being able to upgrade your abilities through your equipment will become the new form of leveling. Consider how the power of players increased so much between level 60 during kunark, and level 60 at the end of Velious (for those oldschool EQ players). Things that took 50 people in kunark could be killed with only 2 or 3 groups after Velious. Items matter.
I still don't understand the point of no raiding. This sounds like they tried to one-up WoW and instead of dumbing down raids and making them accessible to every casual 10 year old on the planet who can queue up into a 10 man instance, they just opted out altogether so as to not "alienate" players who can't coordinate their efforts together to accomplish hard raid-oriented objectives.
What about alienating adults who like a challenge? What about alienating guild leaders and members who enjoy the exclusivity of being in a guild where players work well together to overcome bigger obstacles? What about exclusivity?
Every year I'm more convinced that the damage WoW did to the genre is irreversible. The MMO where skill and coordinated player efforts are necessary is apparently dead for good.
That example is still vertical progression, it's just vertical gear progression.
That's not the goal of EQN. They don't ever want you to log in one day and go to, say, oasis of marr, and just walk around one shotting mobs or not being hurt by their attacks. Whether that's caused from +levels or +gear, they don't want that.
The gear tiers are going to be more about character customization (looks, skills, abilities, etc), it'll give you more tools to work with, not "better" tools to work with.
It sounds like EQN took the idea of tiered raid progression and made it the whole game lol. Which I think is pretty smart when considering to many classes and the mods to equipment. It's been stated that content will be "scaled" to tiers so there is a form of verticle progression.
No "end game" means you're not funneled into the latest 5% of the game. Any MMO that does this gets an A in my book. An MMO shouldn't have a definitive "end". I think the "endgame" will be the various Rallying Calls that build out the world. So not a standard end game but certainly the "latest" content.
At first I was amazed by the features of this game and then "No Vertival Progression" sat in. The concept of growing is core to RPG. It dates back through everything sucessful to D&D. Vertical Progression is the driving force of the genre, which leads to social aspects, adventure, and longevity.
I predict the game to die quickly after an initial awe. There will be no driving force.
I don't like how power gamers try to define an exclusive and in this case extremely shallow notion of "RPG" which then would be binding for every roleplaying game in the world. I feel very sorry for such people who obviously never had the chance to experience real roleplaying.
I am glad that "EverQuest Next" is no longer focusing on the mindless pseudo-roleplaying plague of powergaming!
Others just shoot the zombies which are chasing us. Whereas I try to talk to them.
If the brainless realized that it is dead, maybe, just maybe, it would lay itself down to rest...
Originally posted by tkreep UO and SWG did fine without levels
Odd i played SWG a lot and it had vertical character progression driven by exp ie levels. They were Vertical not horizontial this is the topic being disscussed not if their is an arbitrary term used called levels.
OP is right mmorpgs are made by their effective use of Vertical content .. not the other way around.
Really what level were you in SWG?
The last character i made was a level 120ish SP Commando/TKA and you? Wow i played the game you?
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Originally posted by tkreep UO and SWG did fine without levels
UO had levels..they were called skills
SWG had levels (they even had exp) they were called skills.
I personally do prefer the SWG model, where you can pick and choose your skills and such in advancement trees and mix and match. EQN seems like it kind of has that..kind of.
Originally posted by tkreep UO and SWG did fine without levels
Odd i played SWG a lot and it had vertical character progression driven by exp ie levels. They were Vertical not horizontial this is the topic being disscussed not if their is an arbitrary term used called levels.
OP is right mmorpgs are made by their effective use of Vertical content .. not the other way around.
Really what level were you in SWG?
The last character i made was a level 120ish SP Commando/TKA and you? Wow i played the game you?
You played the game post NGE...they added levels with NGE. Before NGE they had different sort of levels where you'd apply exp to skills of your choice for different classes. (Yes that still counts as levels..just with more player input)
Originally posted by Jetrpg Originally posted by nilden Originally posted by Jetrpg Originally posted by tkreep UO and SWG did fine without levels
Odd i played SWG a lot and it had vertical character progression driven by exp ie levels. They were Vertical not horizontial this is the topic being disscussed not if their is an arbitrary term used called levels.
OP is right mmorpgs are made by their effective use of Vertical content .. not the other way around.
Really what level were you in SWG?
The last character i made was a level 120ish SP Commando/TKA and you? Wow i played the game you?
You played the game post NGE...they added levels with NGE. Before NGE they had different sort of levels where you'd apply exp to skills of your choice for different classes. (Yes that still counts as levels..just with more player input)
Why are people so down on a possible lack of vertical progression?
Most games lately have it, yes, and it takes like a week to get to the level cap.
Pretend you skipped that part. It was nothing anyway.
Hell the game still has vertical progression anyway. You'll still be getting stronger. Getting new skills, stronger skills, better gear, usual stuff. You just don't do it by leveling in the newbie zone for an hour, then the area connected to the newbie zones for the next two hours etc.
The process if anything will be more involved, since once people get into the game I bet they'll be wanting to tier up in many different classes. That probably won't be some quick endeavor.
And hey here's a wacky one for you: After the game has been out for a while, new players might actually still be able to find groups!
The Driving Force of the RPG games that I play is not just the system itself where I unlock almost everything when i level up, and gain stats and skill points/learning points/etc to increase certain useful and useless skills, the other factors of an RPG is story itself and the quests that I can do. We are getting tired of one of the main components of an RPG and replace it with something that resembles for freedom and choices, where leveling up your main numerical value that unlocks shit, instead it's the skills that you choose and the choices you make. The Story and Quests are becoming more dynamic in the mmorpg along with the consequences of our actions and other people's actions, who know when some brigands been harassing the goblin army and the goblin army going to start raiding ALL the towns, including the ones you just built. When that goblin army invaded your city, you will be thinking "wtf!?" and/or "why are the goblins over here wrecking our base and shit"... That's the beginning of your very own quests and your own detective case to solve, liberating your city from the pillaging of your town and eliminating everyone of them until they retreat, find out who, why, what, and where made them attack us, and how to stop it from happening again. The quest that you fated to pick up and solve along with the rest of the citizens of that town. It's like a walking dead episode, except your in it, and your actions have pros and cons among the team that you surround yourself with and yourself.
Originally posted by tkreep UO and SWG did fine without levels
Odd i played SWG a lot and it had vertical character progression driven by exp ie levels. They were Vertical not horizontial this is the topic being disscussed not if their is an arbitrary term used called levels.
OP is right mmorpgs are made by their effective use of Vertical content .. not the other way around.
Really what level were you in SWG?
The last character i made was a level 120ish SP Commando/TKA and you? Wow i played the game you?
You played the game post NGE...they added levels with NGE. Before NGE they had different sort of levels where you'd apply exp to skills of your choice for different classes. (Yes that still counts as levels..just with more player input)
Correct, and hit the nail on the head. .
I played the game PRE CU and the last character i had was a 120 sp leveled commando /tka. Sp etc what they are all what could be concidered a arbitrary construct to indicate vertical advancement in these cases obtained in similar fashion. As i originally stated you don't have to call them levels but they still were they same thing. Now the format is different i 100% agree.
You guys seem to be stuck on the TERM level vs the concept of levels. I could make wow change every where it says level to Yippyaws , it would still have levels, i could take pre-cu SWG change all of its SPs to levels and it would play the same and still be accurate to the concept of each.
I will offer normally levels give stat boosts also (other math factors in-game) but they don't need to , in fact many games that use the term level provide no statistic boost or game formula advantage (just as SWG didn't) yet they are still levels.
This is basic logic and reasoning.
Thus when the op stated the game will horizontally advance not vertically you cannot site SWG as it also vertically advanced Proof linked. (Thats not to say there was no horizontal advancement , as there is some of that in wow even.)
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Its not Vertical levels but instead its Horizontal levels via Tiers. No matter what they call it, its still levels just not in the traditional sense.
If you think about it, both EQ games already have Horizontal "tiers" in that you have to level up to get the next tier of spells, take the Wizard's Ball of Fire spell from EQ2.
Ball of Fire tier 1 you get at level 23
Ball of Fire tier 2 you get at level 37
Ball of Fire tier 3 you get at level 51
Ball of Fire tier 4 you get at level 65
Ball of Fire tier 5 you get at level 77
Ball of Fire tier 6 you get at level 87
So instead of making you gain several levels to get tier 1 Ball of Fire, you have to "tier up" to get it.
I suspect it will take a while to get from one tier to the next... kinda like gaining 10 to 15 levels worth of time....
I suspect it will not take any substantial time to progress. Seems pretty pointless for a game that wants to pull in a casual type of gamer to require too much time to progress. That is the trend these days and I imagine they won't be so "innovative" as to ask anyone to put in much time or effort.
You should check out Progress Quest; it is the most hxc time progression game you will ever play.
Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.
Originally posted by tkreep UO and SWG did fine without levels
Post build completion as well as post purchase of the best crafted goods for that build, there was little in the way of progression in SWG. AT best you'd find a skill tape or dot weapon, few that I knew really went out of their way to find them though, it was something that just happened while doing everyday higher ranked hunting. (nothing like raiding or gear progression).
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I played the game PRE CU and the last character i had was a 120 sp leveled commando /tka. Sp etc what they are all what could be concidered a arbitrary construct to indicate vertical advancement in these cases obtained in similar fashion. As i originally stated you don't have to call them levels but they still were they same thing. Now the format is different i 100% agree.
You guys seem to be stuck on the TERM level vs the concept of levels. I could make wow change every where it says level to Yippyaws , it would still have levels, i could take pre-cu SWG change all of its SPs to levels and it would play the same and still be accurate to the concept of each.
I will offer normally levels give stat boosts also (other math factors in-game) but they don't need to , in fact many games that use the term level provide no statistic boost or game formula advantage (just as SWG didn't) yet they are still levels.
This is basic logic and reasoning.
Thus when the op stated the game will horizontally advance not vertically you cannot site SWG as it also vertically advanced Proof linked. (Thats not to say there was no horizontal advancement , as there is some of that in wow even.)
How much of your time was spent in SWG pre-cu actually building a template? It didn't take long at all for most builds outside of Jedi. Unless you count the early BH grind which was nerfed somewhat fairly early on. Games like EQ and WOW are based all around vertical progression, SWG wasn't.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by tkreep UO and SWG did fine without levels
Post build completion as well as post purchase of the best crafted goods for that build, there was little in the way of progression in SWG. AT best you'd find a skill tape or dot weapon, few that I knew really went out of their way to find them though, it was something that just happened while doing everyday higher ranked hunting. (nothing like raiding or gear progression).
yeah mandalorian gear just popped out of no where.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I played the game PRE CU and the last character i had was a 120 sp leveled commando /tka. Sp etc what they are all what could be concidered a arbitrary construct to indicate vertical advancement in these cases obtained in similar fashion. As i originally stated you don't have to call them levels but they still were they same thing. Now the format is different i 100% agree.
You guys seem to be stuck on the TERM level vs the concept of levels. I could make wow change every where it says level to Yippyaws , it would still have levels, i could take pre-cu SWG change all of its SPs to levels and it would play the same and still be accurate to the concept of each.
I will offer normally levels give stat boosts also (other math factors in-game) but they don't need to , in fact many games that use the term level provide no statistic boost or game formula advantage (just as SWG didn't) yet they are still levels.
This is basic logic and reasoning.
Thus when the op stated the game will horizontally advance not vertically you cannot site SWG as it also vertically advanced Proof linked. (Thats not to say there was no horizontal advancement , as there is some of that in wow even.)
How much of your time was spent in SWG pre-cu actually building a template? It didn't take long at all for most builds outside of Jedi. Unless you count the early BH grind which was nerfed somewhat fairly early on. Games like EQ and WOW are based all around vertical progression, SWG wasn't.
Your now arguing the EXTENT of vertical progression not the absents of it. Note the thread's title and op's position for context.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Its an RPG without vertical progression (for character) yet it's more addictive than anything comparable.
Got to catch them all...
This is same EQN is doing (and similar to GW1)
You start as basic class - your progression is finding all other classes, skills. Surely some will be very hard to find. That's your high level goal.
Regardless like this anyone can play together and contribute, some will simply be a bit more versatile.
If this statment is true i can fight as well at the start of the game as the end correct... Otherwise there is vertical progression (levels of the pokemon that actually do the work). Ill grant you the character has no vertical progression if you grant men you enjoy playing the game without the use of pokemon.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Originally posted by Lobotomist You know Pokemon ?Its an RPG without vertical progression (for character) yet it's more addictive than anything comparable.Got to catch them all...This is same EQN is doing (and similar to GW1)You start as basic class - your progression is finding all other classes, skills. Surely some will be very hard to find. That's your high level goal.Regardless like this anyone can play together and contribute, some will simply be a bit more versatile.
There is horizontal progression in Pokemon and it is equally important.
That's the key really, regardless whether its horizontal or vertical character progression, how important it is to the gameplay is what matters to me.
In EVE the horizontal skill progression is a key component to the game, therefore I enjoy playing it. GW1 and GW2 both had progression curves that were almost unnecessary, or at the very least quite optional and therefore held my interest for only a short time frame.
Costumes, fluff pets, titles, collectibles etc., none of those holds any real interest to me because they are not important to modifying the gameplay so my hope is EQN is more like EVE and not the later examples I provided.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
At first I was amazed by the features of this game and then "No Vertival Progression" sat in. The concept of growing is core to RPG. It dates back through everything sucessful to D&D. Vertical Progression is the driving force of the genre, which leads to social aspects, adventure, and longevity.
I predict the game to die quickly after an initial awe. There will be no driving force.
There is still character growth. So there's plenty of advancement for characters to achieve.
The difference is that the progression doesn't trivialize the world or segregate the community. So the basis for your comment is not only wrong, but the exact opposite is true.
I predict this will be the healthiest MMORPG to date. With more driving forces behind adventuring, longevity and social structure.
And no, the core of DnD is story telling and social aspects. That's what made table top DnD special. It was a way to bring people together, socialize and play.
Comments
I did not hear much on this topic,so they are not going to have crafting tiers anymore,just tie it into leveling?
Well how is crafting going to play any roles then,this does not make sense.It sounds only like a corner cutting idea to do less work in designing the game.They remove the added crafting and they remove the added items/gear needed for each level,instead only having to make a lot less items and gear for tiers.Not that it wasn't much different in EQ2,after all ,everyone went for the top tiered gear,no different than Wow.
No matter it does not sound like a design to IMPROVE what they have already done before,it sounds just like corner cutting.This is like a double dagger,my other game FFXIV did the same thing,they took a greater FFXI system and dumbed it down,really disappointed me.It seems more and more like developers are going this route,making their games much easier and cheaper to design,instead of giving us better games to play.
Players will get VERY bored if they have little choice,example you know you only have one real spell to look forward to as a Wizard and really only one build and only one specific item to back up the weapon and style you are using.This is exactly what i see happening,each class will have one specific build that is just better and everyone will copy it.This was also mentioned in the panel by a person from the crowd and they sort of came off as saying,they are not perfect and will be constantly looking at the system.Then they went on to say,they can add one item that might change the entire scope,i don't buy that for a second because that one item might not pertain your build,only to ONE specific build,so maybe 2% of all the players.
This could all be a mess of listening to a panel that really was quite fake,we might not really know until the game is actually released.That is why that added guy joined the panel,i am sure he sat back and heard some mistakes the panel were leading to ,so he wanted to come up and give another side of the story to make sure everything comes off as positive rather than leave the crowd wondering if good or bad.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I give them credit for trying something new, it's brave. Ultimately, it will likely fail. GW2 tried this same thing in a few different ways and look at how fast it's dying off. Creating a game like this has to be crazy because you can spend years in development and have it fail in no time.
I wish they could find a way to release playable versions earlier while patching content, I mean how long has EQN been in development? AND it's STILL a year or two away? Nobody has any idea what the state of MMO games will be in that time and how much it has changed from the start of development for this game.
I know it's been beat down and people are getting tired of hearing it, but if you wanna be so "different" and "fresh" then why start by copying such atrocious graphics and combat? It's WoW meets Super heros with Ninja Gaiden hack-n-slash combat. That's some seriously terrible combos. A Disney Lion dressed in WoW armor fighting like he's in Diablo 3 or something... I had extremely high hopes for this game, but no. -(
I'd like more information on what these tiers actually mean, they haven't really explained anything about that yet other than that they exist and you meet goals to rise in tier.
Does a tier increase mean an all around increase in effectiveness? Does it just allow you to access new/ugpraded skills? They haven't really explained what going from tier 1 to tier 2 actually does.
That example is still vertical progression, it's just vertical gear progression.
That's not the goal of EQN. They don't ever want you to log in one day and go to, say, oasis of marr, and just walk around one shotting mobs or not being hurt by their attacks. Whether that's caused from +levels or +gear, they don't want that.
The gear tiers are going to be more about character customization (looks, skills, abilities, etc), it'll give you more tools to work with, not "better" tools to work with.
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No "end game" means you're not funneled into the latest 5% of the game. Any MMO that does this gets an A in my book. An MMO shouldn't have a definitive "end". I think the "endgame" will be the various Rallying Calls that build out the world. So not a standard end game but certainly the "latest" content.
uo had vertical progression and im pretty certain swg had it as well
I don't like how power gamers try to define an exclusive and in this case extremely shallow notion of "RPG" which then would be binding for every roleplaying game in the world. I feel very sorry for such people who obviously never had the chance to experience real roleplaying.
I am glad that "EverQuest Next" is no longer focusing on the mindless pseudo-roleplaying plague of powergaming!
Others just shoot the zombies which are chasing us. Whereas I try to talk to them.
If the brainless realized that it is dead, maybe, just maybe, it would lay itself down to rest...
The last character i made was a level 120ish SP Commando/TKA and you? Wow i played the game you?
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
UO had levels..they were called skills
SWG had levels (they even had exp) they were called skills.
I personally do prefer the SWG model, where you can pick and choose your skills and such in advancement trees and mix and match. EQN seems like it kind of has that..kind of.
You played the game post NGE...they added levels with NGE. Before NGE they had different sort of levels where you'd apply exp to skills of your choice for different classes. (Yes that still counts as levels..just with more player input)
Odd i played SWG a lot and it had vertical character progression driven by exp ie levels. They were Vertical not horizontial this is the topic being disscussed not if their is an arbitrary term used called levels.
OP is right mmorpgs are made by their effective use of Vertical content .. not the other way around.
Really what level were you in SWG?
The last character i made was a level 120ish SP Commando/TKA and you? Wow i played the game you?
You played the game post NGE...they added levels with NGE. Before NGE they had different sort of levels where you'd apply exp to skills of your choice for different classes. (Yes that still counts as levels..just with more player input)
Correct, and hit the nail on the head. .
over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...
Why are people so down on a possible lack of vertical progression?
Most games lately have it, yes, and it takes like a week to get to the level cap.
Pretend you skipped that part. It was nothing anyway.
Hell the game still has vertical progression anyway. You'll still be getting stronger. Getting new skills, stronger skills, better gear, usual stuff. You just don't do it by leveling in the newbie zone for an hour, then the area connected to the newbie zones for the next two hours etc.
The process if anything will be more involved, since once people get into the game I bet they'll be wanting to tier up in many different classes. That probably won't be some quick endeavor.
And hey here's a wacky one for you: After the game has been out for a while, new players might actually still be able to find groups!
I played the game PRE CU and the last character i had was a 120 sp leveled commando /tka. Sp etc what they are all what could be concidered a arbitrary construct to indicate vertical advancement in these cases obtained in similar fashion. As i originally stated you don't have to call them levels but they still were they same thing. Now the format is different i 100% agree.
You guys seem to be stuck on the TERM level vs the concept of levels. I could make wow change every where it says level to Yippyaws , it would still have levels, i could take pre-cu SWG change all of its SPs to levels and it would play the same and still be accurate to the concept of each.
I will offer normally levels give stat boosts also (other math factors in-game) but they don't need to , in fact many games that use the term level provide no statistic boost or game formula advantage (just as SWG didn't) yet they are still levels.
This is basic logic and reasoning.
Thus when the op stated the game will horizontally advance not vertically you cannot site SWG as it also vertically advanced Proof linked. (Thats not to say there was no horizontal advancement , as there is some of that in wow even.)
http://www.swgcharacterbuilder.com/swg-cb.php
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
You should check out Progress Quest; it is the most hxc time progression game you will ever play.
Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.
Post build completion as well as post purchase of the best crafted goods for that build, there was little in the way of progression in SWG. AT best you'd find a skill tape or dot weapon, few that I knew really went out of their way to find them though, it was something that just happened while doing everyday higher ranked hunting. (nothing like raiding or gear progression).
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
How much of your time was spent in SWG pre-cu actually building a template? It didn't take long at all for most builds outside of Jedi. Unless you count the early BH grind which was nerfed somewhat fairly early on. Games like EQ and WOW are based all around vertical progression, SWG wasn't.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You know Pokemon ?
Its an RPG without vertical progression (for character) yet it's more addictive than anything comparable.
Got to catch them all...
This is same EQN is doing (and similar to GW1)
You start as basic class - your progression is finding all other classes, skills. Surely some will be very hard to find. That's your high level goal.
Regardless like this anyone can play together and contribute, some will simply be a bit more versatile.
There is horizontal progression in Pokemon and it is equally important.
yeah mandalorian gear just popped out of no where.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Your now arguing the EXTENT of vertical progression not the absents of it. Note the thread's title and op's position for context.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
If this statment is true i can fight as well at the start of the game as the end correct... Otherwise there is vertical progression (levels of the pokemon that actually do the work). Ill grant you the character has no vertical progression if you grant men you enjoy playing the game without the use of pokemon.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
There is horizontal progression in Pokemon and it is equally important.
That's the key really, regardless whether its horizontal or vertical character progression, how important it is to the gameplay is what matters to me.In EVE the horizontal skill progression is a key component to the game, therefore I enjoy playing it. GW1 and GW2 both had progression curves that were almost unnecessary, or at the very least quite optional and therefore held my interest for only a short time frame.
Costumes, fluff pets, titles, collectibles etc., none of those holds any real interest to me because they are not important to modifying the gameplay so my hope is EQN is more like EVE and not the later examples I provided.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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What if progressing in EQN is harder than traditional leveling?
You need several things to progress to next tier...
http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/08/03/everquest-next-interview/
40 classes. Each class is progresses individually. In order to progress to next tier you need
How do you gain points in a class? You dont get them from leveling
So you might have to find skill challenges around the world to gain points.
Maybe you find some of these point challenges, but with 40 classes, maybe you have not found enough points for the class you want to progress.
So maybe you will run around with 1 armor piece and 1 class point short of moving to next tier for days.
This could happen in EQN.
This could not happen in a traditional mmorpg with levels.
So maybe EQN is a lot harder to progress. Maybe EQN is hardcore
There is still character growth. So there's plenty of advancement for characters to achieve.
The difference is that the progression doesn't trivialize the world or segregate the community. So the basis for your comment is not only wrong, but the exact opposite is true.
I predict this will be the healthiest MMORPG to date. With more driving forces behind adventuring, longevity and social structure.
And no, the core of DnD is story telling and social aspects. That's what made table top DnD special. It was a way to bring people together, socialize and play.
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