Originally posted by kartool People just write macros so they end up turning those 30+ skills into 8 different buttons anyway. Go play some TSW and tell me how shallow limiting the number of abilities makes a game. I don't know why anyone would want half a screen of action bars anyway. More buttons does not mean deeper game play. If a combat system is good it doesn't need to be hot mess of abilities. Take Arkham Asylum/City for example - the combat is pretty basic, but it's also very satisfying because it's well designed.
MMOs have always been about so much more than combat. It's bad enough that the current trend is to place a hyper focus on combat, but all of the other myriad things that were so great about MMOs are being marginalized if not outright left out.
Today I will pose this question. Is the new trend of MMOs, action oriented, fewer skills, and less hotbars? If you look at the old juggernauts of the MMO world, EQ 1, EQ 2, and Vanilla WoW, you literally were able to use all of your skills (usually 30+) at any given point. You were not limited to 8, 10, or 12. Fast forward 10 - 12 years later and you see games like GW2 with this action styled dodging and rolling around, while only being able to use a set amount of your skills during a single combat period.
Is this the way MMOs are leaning? What I think to be a more casualized, less intensive, easier learning style? Are MMO companies attempting to make combat more fun? Or are they instead trying to make it easier for the younger (or older) gamer?
I look forward to hearing back from all of you,
Talint
I'll tell you a story, just recently I came back to EQ2 to check on my character. Not sooner than I got back into the game I was bombarded with a skill reset and a default hotbar. Now instead of trying to relearn everything I forgot about the skill system, synergies and rotations, I rolled another class. I honestly believe that if it were someone else, they would have took a look at the mess on their plate and promptly logged out/uninstall.
Simple does not always mean preskool easy. In this day and age if you already know your game is going to be F2P, why on earth would you create a convoluted system of skills with marginal damage/heal increases and minute duration changes? It would serve nothing more than being a hurdle if players wanted to come back.
Think about it. It's no surprise to anyone except you it seems that most new B2P or F2P games are releasing with simplified UIs. Hell even WoW learned this trick and adapted to it with the release of it's latest expansion. Their game was getting a bit top heavy, so they shaved a little off the top. There is a reason gamers rarely pick up a RPG again after a long hiatus (especially if they've finished about 60% but had to drop it for some reason), but play games with more intuitive controls for years on end.
I want a mmo with characters that respond more through situational awareness and intuitive controls rather than this:
I mean yeah sure I COULD learn to operate that, but honestly there are more complicated things in my life I could be diverting more energy to.
Well the problem is that simple is good for learning and getting started, but bad for longevity. I agree that ergonomic UIs are the best for not scaring off the new player, but isn't there some way to have the complexity and choice there for players who want it? Let me duplicate abilities or have bad specials on my bar if I want it. Can't I put equipment on the bar if it's clickable?
Not really, It all depends on how the game is set up. Example: Take chess and checkers. Even though checkers can have a bigger board (up to 12x12) and more pieces (up to 30) than chess (8x8 board and 16 pieces), chess is more complicated and uses more strategy.
Board = hotbars
Pieces = skills
And since we don't know how the game is played nor how the rules are set, throwing stones at this point seems a bit premature.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Originally posted by kartool People just write macros so they end up turning those 30+ skills into 8 different buttons anyway. Go play some TSW and tell me how shallow limiting the number of abilities makes a game. I don't know why anyone would want half a screen of action bars anyway. More buttons does not mean deeper game play. If a combat system is good it doesn't need to be hot mess of abilities. Take Arkham Asylum/City for example - the combat is pretty basic, but it's also very satisfying because it's well designed.
half a dozen hot bars? does everyone on this forum keep saying the typical thing everytime they attack back? nobody said they want a million hot bars, 4 weapoin and 4 class abilities is limiting and some of us want some more diversity..
so annoying how these same guys keep jumping in screaming NOBODY WANTS 8 HOT BARS!! WAHHHH
Originally posted by kartool People just write macros so they end up turning those 30+ skills into 8 different buttons anyway. Go play some TSW and tell me how shallow limiting the number of abilities makes a game. I don't know why anyone would want half a screen of action bars anyway. More buttons does not mean deeper game play. If a combat system is good it doesn't need to be hot mess of abilities. Take Arkham Asylum/City for example - the combat is pretty basic, but it's also very satisfying because it's well designed.
MMOs have always been about so much more than combat. It's bad enough that the current trend is to place a hyper focus on combat, but all of the other myriad things that were so great about MMOs are being marginalized if not outright left out.
I agree with you, but I still don't think 30 skills for the sake of having 30 skills or because WoW had 30 skills is a good thing. I also think the golden age of MMOs has come and gone. MMOs will continue to be about instant gratification with less and less thought put into the community aspect of the genre. I remember back in the day when you wouldn't want to turn off general chat because of that feeling of community or missing something interesting going on somewhere. These days the first thing people do is shut off general chat.
The genre got popular. It's kind of what's happened with zombies now and vampire before them. Shit gets watered down in order to be palatable for the masses.
One thing people are forgetting, is no matter how fun they manage to make an action combat game, it will alienate a large demographic of MMO players who like to play the hang back classes that debuff, heal, or take a more tactical approach rather than just in your face dps with dodging and jumping around. That sort of gameplay just isn't appealing to a lot of people who play MMOs, and in the past you could be a more action combat type of class or opt out with other classes. Now everyone will be thrust into that sort of role.
I don't trust any western developer when they say their game is going to have action combat. They often times neglect things like height, hitboxes in general, and weapon reach. If my attacks don't actually connect with the enemy, why do I still do damage?
One thing people are forgetting, is no matter how fun they manage to make an action combat game, it will alienate a large demographic of MMO players who like to play the hang back classes that debuff, heal, or take a more tactical approach rather than just in your face dps with dodging and jumping around. That sort of gameplay just isn't appealing to a lot of people who play MMOs, and in the past you could be a more action combat type of class or opt out with other classes. Now everyone will be thrust into that sort of role.
And thats bad.
There's no reason why these classes can't exist in a game where combat is more action oriented or requires fewer skills. Say for a healer instead of having 5-6 different heals that heal for different amounts you heal like in Skyrim where you hold the mouse button down or activate your healing skill for a period of time. Perhaps a support class has 2-3 skills that can be combined in different ways to do different buffs or debuffs, or stacking a buff on top of another buff creates a third buff or something like that. There are tons of ways to slim down on necessary skills and still make a game fun.
Well the problem is that simple is good for learning and getting started, but bad for longevity. I agree that ergonomic UIs are the best for not scaring off the new player, but isn't there some way to have the complexity and choice there for players who want it? Let me duplicate abilities or have bad specials on my bar if I want it. Can't I put equipment on the bar if it's clickable?
Not really, It all depends on how the game is set up. Example: Take chess and checkers. Even though checkers can have a bigger board (up to 12x12) and more pieces (up to 30) than chess (8x8 board and 16 pieces), chess is more complicated and uses more strategy.
Board = hotbars
Pieces = skills
And since we don't know how the game is played nor how the rules are set, throwing stones at this point seems a bit premature.
Well to make the analogy work you would need to be describing two games of chess in which more or less pieces are used to achieve the same moves.
But what I am talking about is the fatigue and feeling of claustrophobia I have experienced in the games I have played with these small button UIs and a nearly complete focus on combat.
To make another analogy, our character is a puppet, the number of strings determines the interface we have with the puppet. Developers are trying to make it into a sock puppet.
Today I will pose this question. Is the new trend of MMOs, action oriented, fewer skills, and less hotbars? If you look at the old juggernauts of the MMO world, EQ 1, EQ 2, and Vanilla WoW, you literally were able to use all of your skills (usually 30+) at any given point. You were not limited to 8, 10, or 12. Fast forward 10 - 12 years later and you see games like GW2 with this action styled dodging and rolling around, while only being able to use a set amount of your skills during a single combat period.
Is this the way MMOs are leaning? What I think to be a more casualized, less intensive, easier learning style? Are MMO companies attempting to make combat more fun? Or are they instead trying to make it easier for the younger (or older) gamer?
I look forward to hearing back from all of you,
Talint
If you think it's more casual please show us some videos of you speed running GW2 or Neverwinter. Too many of you have absolutely never even touched the new system in depth and just jump onto a pillar to shout "casual" when you yourself only played the game casually and wouldn't know what it's capable of being at the hardcore stage.
I explained in detail why the GW2 system is shallow in this link
"We can start off by looking at the character builds. The Trait system they have is excellent. I love it. The way I can tweak my character's builds for my own playstyle is among the best I've seen. Unfortunately, they still haven't been successful from breaking the Cookie Cutter build issue. Why? The action bar/combat/equipped weapon system destroys it. Turns the whole thing into a button spam.
Looking at my Thief, I enjoy both the full Berzerker build with Dagger/Dagger. And also the Bleed build with Dagger/Dagger.
This is where I noticed an issue. Looking at the 1st 3 abilities, Backstab, Heartseeker and Deathblosm. They exist for any thief using D/D regardless of build. Yet one of those abilities is for condition build thieves and the other 2 aren't So no matter which build I was using, I've got an already limited slot taken by an ability I won't use with that build.
I noticed the same thing using a scepter on my Necro. Depending on the build, I would prefer certain abilities and not use others since different abilities are geared for different builds. But they are tied to the weapon and are always there and they take up slots. So now you really have even fewer effective abilities.
This is a very bad way to design a game. And now it may be that SoE is following suit with EQN? "
First i don't see any skill from the first 3 D/D skills being something for a condition build - #1 deals poison, and direct damage, but poison is useful for reducing enemy healing; #2 direct damage; #3 is useful AoE damage and evasion with some bleeding component.
Second might likes all damage.
Third Necromancer scepter #1 skill cause conditions, #2 skill cause conditions, #3 skill deals more damage and recoup you life force based on how many conditions the enemy have. If this isn't synergetic, what the hell is?
I also have the impression some people (not the person I'm quoting) think all the classes have exactly the same skills from each specific weapon, instead of each weapon giving skills based on their class.
A mesmer greatsword is a ranged weapon, while a warrior greatsword is a melee weapon.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
What I don't "get" is, Why is there so much resistance to having more options? I have nothing against minimalism, especially if it contributes to efficiency. If you have figured out how to run with a single hot bar, that's awesome. Many players have been doing that in WoW and other games for years. But even still, why would you not want the option to add another? I don't get that. There is no logical reason why anyone should be against the idea that if you like 1 bar, run 1 bar, if you like 2 bars, run with 2 bars so long as the game is designed to be functional either way. In this instance, no one comes away feeling like they are getting screwed. But when players are told they are getting 1 bar and that's it. You now have 2 groups. Those that like and those that don't. But those that don't have no options. In the other scenario, everyone has the option to play how they want and some of you guys don't see that. It really is a bad decision to do it this way.
i dont get it either, welcome to the mmo world whatever the new trend is thats why they emulate..
these new elitest mmo gamers do nothing but attack hot bars even tho they know themselves spent years playing hot bar games.
we are saying we want options, you can have your 4 skill slots if you want, thats what we are saying,
You'll have tons of options but you won't be able to have access to all of them any time you want. This is the beauty in the system and promotes more skill game play.
Remember you can be anything you want, any time you want but you can't be everything you want any time you want.
Random Forum Poster: I want an MMO that is different, original and fun.
Me: So you want something like EQN
Them: Nah dude, I want a Holy Trinity, Tab Target combat, Instanced Raiding, and Rigid classes.
Today I will pose this question. Is the new trend of MMOs, action oriented, fewer skills, and less hotbars? If you look at the old juggernauts of the MMO world, EQ 1, EQ 2, and Vanilla WoW, you literally were able to use all of your skills (usually 30+) at any given point. You were not limited to 8, 10, or 12. Fast forward 10 - 12 years later and you see games like GW2 with this action styled dodging and rolling around, while only being able to use a set amount of your skills during a single combat period.
Is this the way MMOs are leaning? What I think to be a more casualized, less intensive, easier learning style? Are MMO companies attempting to make combat more fun? Or are they instead trying to make it easier for the younger (or older) gamer?
its the money grabbing console + pc market trend. even tough EQ had only 8 skills, at least you could put the skill's on the bar you wanted. Same with GW1, many many skills to choose from
Now you have a weapon with 4 skills and a class with 4 skills. Doesnt matter how many classes they will release, you pick your favorite class and play it. But its going to get old real fast, just like GW2. To each his own flavor offcourse, but in on teamspeak 3 days ago we had a discussion going about EQN and almost everyone agreed that 8 skills locked on class and weapon will not entertain you long enough. Add the twitch combat, and action style rpg console elements and you got zerg and faceroll joypad style mmo design.
Thanks but no thanks, they will face the reality once people flood the forum about how bad this stuff is once they played with it. You can already see it comming here on MMRPG and other forums.
People dont like faceroll mmo's anymore, we have GW2 for that, no need to make another one -_-
Today I will pose this question. Is the new trend of MMOs, action oriented, fewer skills, and less hotbars? If you look at the old juggernauts of the MMO world, EQ 1, EQ 2, and Vanilla WoW, you literally were able to use all of your skills (usually 30+) at any given point. You were not limited to 8, 10, or 12. Fast forward 10 - 12 years later and you see games like GW2 with this action styled dodging and rolling around, while only being able to use a set amount of your skills during a single combat period.
Is this the way MMOs are leaning? What I think to be a more casualized, less intensive, easier learning style? Are MMO companies attempting to make combat more fun? Or are they instead trying to make it easier for the younger (or older) gamer?
I look forward to hearing back from all of you,
Talint
If you think it's more casual please show us some videos of you speed running GW2 or Neverwinter. Too many of you have absolutely never even touched the new system in depth and just jump onto a pillar to shout "casual" when you yourself only played the game casually and wouldn't know what it's capable of being at the hardcore stage.
I explained in detail why the GW2 system is shallow in this link
"We can start off by looking at the character builds. The Trait system they have is excellent. I love it. The way I can tweak my character's builds for my own playstyle is among the best I've seen. Unfortunately, they still haven't been successful from breaking the Cookie Cutter build issue. Why? The action bar/combat/equipped weapon system destroys it. Turns the whole thing into a button spam.
Looking at my Thief, I enjoy both the full Berzerker build with Dagger/Dagger. And also the Bleed build with Dagger/Dagger.
This is where I noticed an issue. Looking at the 1st 3 abilities, Backstab, Heartseeker and Deathblosm. They exist for any thief using D/D regardless of build. Yet one of those abilities is for condition build thieves and the other 2 aren't So no matter which build I was using, I've got an already limited slot taken by an ability I won't use with that build.
I noticed the same thing using a scepter on my Necro. Depending on the build, I would prefer certain abilities and not use others since different abilities are geared for different builds. But they are tied to the weapon and are always there and they take up slots. So now you really have even fewer effective abilities.
This is a very bad way to design a game. And now it may be that SoE is following suit with EQN? "
First i don't see any skill from the first 3 D/D skills being something for a condition build - #1 deals poison, and direct damage, but poison is useful for reducing enemy healing; #2 direct damage; #3 is useful AoE damage and evasion with some bleeding component.
Second might likes all damage.
Third Necromancer scepter #1 skill cause conditions, #2 skill cause conditions, #3 skill deals more damage and recoup you life force based on how many conditions the enemy have. If this isn't synergetic, what the hell is?
I also have the impression some people (not the person I'm quoting) think all the classes have exactly the same skills from each specific weapon, instead of each weapon giving skills based on their class.
A mesmer greatsword is a ranged weapon, while a warrior greatsword is a melee weapon.
Do you understand how a Condition thief builds work. Google 0/0/20/20/30 Thief (My build) It's pretty much DB spam. You can use other abilities, but DB is bread and butter. The other abilities are situational, but even then, use them very carefully (almost never) because using them takes init away from DB which is what you want more. So yeah, it's pretty much spamming 3 all the way. It's the same issue but opposite selection for Crit build. They aren't going to use DB for the same reason I avoid HS. Init cost.
The Necro, To be honest, It was one of the builds I didn't use much, if I am so inclined, I'll go confirm what I recalled as being different rotations in different builds when I feel like doing so, but since I am not at the moment, I'll retract the Necro example. And also, I'll actually give some credit here. The build I did use on the Necro, the power build, actually had a bit more involved rotation. (probably why I favored it) using Deathshroud at key times. Even still, it was not complicated. But the point remains. for many classes and builds, the limited options in the weapons still equate to certain abilities being used while others aren't. and so you still have a combat rotation that is reduced to one or 2 ability spams.
Today I will pose this question. Is the new trend of MMOs, action oriented, fewer skills, and less hotbars? If you look at the old juggernauts of the MMO world, EQ 1, EQ 2, and Vanilla WoW, you literally were able to use all of your skills (usually 30+) at any given point. You were not limited to 8, 10, or 12. Fast forward 10 - 12 years later and you see games like GW2 with this action styled dodging and rolling around, while only being able to use a set amount of your skills during a single combat period.
Is this the way MMOs are leaning? What I think to be a more casualized, less intensive, easier learning style? Are MMO companies attempting to make combat more fun? Or are they instead trying to make it easier for the younger (or older) gamer?
Today I will pose this question. Is the new trend of MMOs, action oriented, fewer skills, and less hotbars? If you look at the old juggernauts of the MMO world, EQ 1, EQ 2, and Vanilla WoW, you literally were able to use all of your skills (usually 30+) at any given point. You were not limited to 8, 10, or 12. Fast forward 10 - 12 years later and you see games like GW2 with this action styled dodging and rolling around, while only being able to use a set amount of your skills during a single combat period.
Is this the way MMOs are leaning? What I think to be a more casualized, less intensive, easier learning style? Are MMO companies attempting to make combat more fun? Or are they instead trying to make it easier for the younger (or older) gamer?
I look forward to hearing back from all of you,
Talint
EQ1 had 8 skill slots..
Yeah, and it wasn't enough so they added more.
I cant ever remember thinking to myself.. gosh i wish i had hot bars all over my screen so i could fit every spell on..
More of an issue is what that guy said above with the skills being locked to the weapon you use and the class you choose. I would hope that each weapon and class have more than 4 skills to choose from.. will have to wait and see i guess.
Today I will pose this question. Is the new trend of MMOs, action oriented, fewer skills, and less hotbars? If you look at the old juggernauts of the MMO world, EQ 1, EQ 2, and Vanilla WoW, you literally were able to use all of your skills (usually 30+) at any given point. You were not limited to 8, 10, or 12. Fast forward 10 - 12 years later and you see games like GW2 with this action styled dodging and rolling around, while only being able to use a set amount of your skills during a single combat period.
Is this the way MMOs are leaning? What I think to be a more casualized, less intensive, easier learning style? Are MMO companies attempting to make combat more fun? Or are they instead trying to make it easier for the younger (or older) gamer?
I look forward to hearing back from all of you,
Talint
EQ1 had 8 skill slots..
Yeah, and it wasn't enough so they added more.
I cant ever remember thinking to myself.. gosh i wish i had hot bars all over my screen so i could fit every spell on..
More of an issue is what that guy said above with the skills being locked to the weapon you use and the class you choose. I would hope that each weapon and class have more than 4 skills to choose from.. will have to wait and see i guess.
Not gonna disagree. Lots of people make do with a single bar. I think issues are from questions about the inflexibility in combination with a single bar.
Not gonna disagree. Lots of people make do with a single bar. I think issues are from questions about the inflexibility in combination with a single bar.
yeah we need to wait for more info really before jumping to conclusions i guess as we have only seen breif descriptions of the skill system.
SO I jumped on GW2 last night to refresh my memory on how the limited skill bar works, and I was surprised at how quickly I got back into my pattern of use (vs. EQ2 where it took longer to re-familiarize myself). I did notice that I still watched the bar because of cooldowns, but did not do the scanning of the bar that I do with four hotbars on EQ2.
I also noticed that I quickly wanted the change from the first weapon set and so I switched weapons sets back and forth a few times. With weapon swapping in GW2 (Guardian) you have: 10 buttons on weapon side + 5 on Class side + 3 Virtues that can be activated. 18 Buttons.
If you do Elementalist or Engineer there are much more buttons.
So EQN is actually more restrictive than GW2! I don't think there will be enough variety of actions to keep the Player engrossed in operating the character. It's as if they really were aping Minecraft even in the character aspects.
Fewer skills, less actionsbars = button mashing. And I'm using for years my computer to play games exactly because I do not like button mashing. If I (still) would, I would be playing on some console as once.
Main reason I left TSW was that .... and I'm afraid EQ Next as I have read will also have limited buttons. If so then game will definitively not be fun for me.
And I'm using for years my computer to play games exactly because I do not like button mashing.
buh?
Think about that one, for a moment. You use computers... to avoid... pushing buttons...
Isn't that a div/0 error of some sort? Error 404 maybe?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
And I'm using for years my computer to play games exactly because I do not like button mashing.
buh?
Think about that one, for a moment. You use computers... to avoid... pushing buttons...
Isn't that a div/0 error of some sort? Error 404 maybe?
Not sure if you really do not understand or you just faking you do not understand. I guess you know what players mean when they talk about "button mashing"?
There comes a point when you have so many skills they start mirroring others. I suppose some gamers love to see half their screen filled with action bars, loaded with skills that are rarely used.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
I don't like either. There needs to be a balance. I don't want 969 skills nor do I want 2. I lean more to less skills though. I don't want a cluster F of abilities all over the place.
Comments
MMOs have always been about so much more than combat. It's bad enough that the current trend is to place a hyper focus on combat, but all of the other myriad things that were so great about MMOs are being marginalized if not outright left out.
Not really, It all depends on how the game is set up. Example: Take chess and checkers. Even though checkers can have a bigger board (up to 12x12) and more pieces (up to 30) than chess (8x8 board and 16 pieces), chess is more complicated and uses more strategy.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
half a dozen hot bars? does everyone on this forum keep saying the typical thing everytime they attack back? nobody said they want a million hot bars, 4 weapoin and 4 class abilities is limiting and some of us want some more diversity..
so annoying how these same guys keep jumping in screaming NOBODY WANTS 8 HOT BARS!! WAHHHH
I agree with you, but I still don't think 30 skills for the sake of having 30 skills or because WoW had 30 skills is a good thing. I also think the golden age of MMOs has come and gone. MMOs will continue to be about instant gratification with less and less thought put into the community aspect of the genre. I remember back in the day when you wouldn't want to turn off general chat because of that feeling of community or missing something interesting going on somewhere. These days the first thing people do is shut off general chat.
The genre got popular. It's kind of what's happened with zombies now and vampire before them. Shit gets watered down in order to be palatable for the masses.
One thing people are forgetting, is no matter how fun they manage to make an action combat game, it will alienate a large demographic of MMO players who like to play the hang back classes that debuff, heal, or take a more tactical approach rather than just in your face dps with dodging and jumping around. That sort of gameplay just isn't appealing to a lot of people who play MMOs, and in the past you could be a more action combat type of class or opt out with other classes. Now everyone will be thrust into that sort of role.
And thats bad.
I don't trust any western developer when they say their game is going to have action combat. They often times neglect things like height, hitboxes in general, and weapon reach. If my attacks don't actually connect with the enemy, why do I still do damage?
Anyways I love me some good combat design.
There's no reason why these classes can't exist in a game where combat is more action oriented or requires fewer skills. Say for a healer instead of having 5-6 different heals that heal for different amounts you heal like in Skyrim where you hold the mouse button down or activate your healing skill for a period of time. Perhaps a support class has 2-3 skills that can be combined in different ways to do different buffs or debuffs, or stacking a buff on top of another buff creates a third buff or something like that. There are tons of ways to slim down on necessary skills and still make a game fun.
Well to make the analogy work you would need to be describing two games of chess in which more or less pieces are used to achieve the same moves.
But what I am talking about is the fatigue and feeling of claustrophobia I have experienced in the games I have played with these small button UIs and a nearly complete focus on combat.
To make another analogy, our character is a puppet, the number of strings determines the interface we have with the puppet. Developers are trying to make it into a sock puppet.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
First i don't see any skill from the first 3 D/D skills being something for a condition build - #1 deals poison, and direct damage, but poison is useful for reducing enemy healing; #2 direct damage; #3 is useful AoE damage and evasion with some bleeding component.
Second might likes all damage.
Third Necromancer scepter #1 skill cause conditions, #2 skill cause conditions, #3 skill deals more damage and recoup you life force based on how many conditions the enemy have. If this isn't synergetic, what the hell is?
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I also have the impression some people (not the person I'm quoting) think all the classes have exactly the same skills from each specific weapon, instead of each weapon giving skills based on their class.
A mesmer greatsword is a ranged weapon, while a warrior greatsword is a melee weapon.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
You'll have tons of options but you won't be able to have access to all of them any time you want. This is the beauty in the system and promotes more skill game play.
Remember you can be anything you want, any time you want but you can't be everything you want any time you want.
Random Forum Poster: I want an MMO that is different, original and fun.
Me: So you want something like EQN
Them: Nah dude, I want a Holy Trinity, Tab Target combat, Instanced Raiding, and Rigid classes.
Me: Double Facepalm.
EQ1 had 8 skill slots..
its the money grabbing console + pc market trend.
even tough EQ had only 8 skills, at least you could put the skill's on the bar you wanted.
Same with GW1, many many skills to choose from
Now you have a weapon with 4 skills and a class with 4 skills.
Doesnt matter how many classes they will release, you pick your favorite class and play it.
But its going to get old real fast, just like GW2.
To each his own flavor offcourse, but in on teamspeak 3 days ago we had a discussion going about EQN and almost everyone agreed that 8 skills locked on class and weapon will not entertain you long enough.
Add the twitch combat, and action style rpg console elements and you got zerg and faceroll joypad style mmo design.
Thanks but no thanks, they will face the reality once people flood the forum about how bad this stuff is once they played with it.
You can already see it comming here on MMRPG and other forums.
People dont like faceroll mmo's anymore, we have GW2 for that, no need to make another one -_-
Extremely disapointed by SOE decisions.....
Do you understand how a Condition thief builds work. Google 0/0/20/20/30 Thief (My build) It's pretty much DB spam. You can use other abilities, but DB is bread and butter. The other abilities are situational, but even then, use them very carefully (almost never) because using them takes init away from DB which is what you want more. So yeah, it's pretty much spamming 3 all the way. It's the same issue but opposite selection for Crit build. They aren't going to use DB for the same reason I avoid HS. Init cost.
The Necro, To be honest, It was one of the builds I didn't use much, if I am so inclined, I'll go confirm what I recalled as being different rotations in different builds when I feel like doing so, but since I am not at the moment, I'll retract the Necro example. And also, I'll actually give some credit here. The build I did use on the Necro, the power build, actually had a bit more involved rotation. (probably why I favored it) using Deathshroud at key times. Even still, it was not complicated. But the point remains. for many classes and builds, the limited options in the weapons still equate to certain abilities being used while others aren't. and so you still have a combat rotation that is reduced to one or 2 ability spams.
Yeah, and it wasn't enough so they added more.
I cant ever remember thinking to myself.. gosh i wish i had hot bars all over my screen so i could fit every spell on..
More of an issue is what that guy said above with the skills being locked to the weapon you use and the class you choose. I would hope that each weapon and class have more than 4 skills to choose from.. will have to wait and see i guess.
Not gonna disagree. Lots of people make do with a single bar. I think issues are from questions about the inflexibility in combination with a single bar.
yeah we need to wait for more info really before jumping to conclusions i guess as we have only seen breif descriptions of the skill system.
SO I jumped on GW2 last night to refresh my memory on how the limited skill bar works, and I was surprised at how quickly I got back into my pattern of use (vs. EQ2 where it took longer to re-familiarize myself). I did notice that I still watched the bar because of cooldowns, but did not do the scanning of the bar that I do with four hotbars on EQ2.
I also noticed that I quickly wanted the change from the first weapon set and so I switched weapons sets back and forth a few times. With weapon swapping in GW2 (Guardian) you have: 10 buttons on weapon side + 5 on Class side + 3 Virtues that can be activated. 18 Buttons.
If you do Elementalist or Engineer there are much more buttons.
So EQN is actually more restrictive than GW2! I don't think there will be enough variety of actions to keep the Player engrossed in operating the character. It's as if they really were aping Minecraft even in the character aspects.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
Fewer skills, less actionsbars = button mashing. And I'm using for years my computer to play games exactly because I do not like button mashing. If I (still) would, I would be playing on some console as once.
Main reason I left TSW was that .... and I'm afraid EQ Next as I have read will also have limited buttons. If so then game will definitively not be fun for me.
buh?
Think about that one, for a moment. You use computers... to avoid... pushing buttons...
Isn't that a div/0 error of some sort? Error 404 maybe?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Not sure if you really do not understand or you just faking you do not understand. I guess you know what players mean when they talk about "button mashing"?
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
I don't like either. There needs to be a balance. I don't want 969 skills nor do I want 2. I lean more to less skills though. I don't want a cluster F of abilities all over the place.