Why did this EVER become a thing? In any kind of real life combat whenever you are executing a strike you have to standing still or at the very least lunging in the direction of the strike (most of the time forward). And casting while moving?? what?? most people cant even walk and eat at the same time how the hell can u expect to do something that requires an extreme amount of concentration while running? Even in FPS games, when you are running and trying to shoot you get penalized in terms of accuracy of your target reticule. I dont know why gamers expect such an unnatural thing to be standard in mmorpg games. You know why in a lot of games the character models look weird while attacking and running? IT'S BECAUSE ITS UNNATURAL AND DOESNT MAKE SENSE. Maybe because people are so used to watching crazy anime shows where people are fighting each other while flying in mid air or while sprinting in a field.
And for the grand finale. The Ring that rules them all
Yes unless you have something to push again, the force will be decreased however it can and very often is still significant.
I guess all those people doing 2nd and 3rd kicks, with amazing force, while in the air after the first kick is done and all contact with the ground is gone must be magic.
This post is utterly absurd. Power is drawn from the back foot for the vast majority of attacks. Your core is only used to transfer that energy.
There is no such thing as a second or third kick in the air in a real fight, its just a stupid stunt like many things that traditional martial artists do. Even in these stunts attacks are never made at the same angle, they are intentionally angled in such a way that a first strike will not effect momentum in the direction of the second stunt.
Movement in modern games is indeed extremely unrealistic. Hand to hand combat movements are relatively subtle and reactionary because spacing and timing are precise components of combat and moving around is pointless and great waste of energy.
I don't know if game designers care about these issues though, although I agree it does make combat - particularly PVP hilariously stupid looking.
The fireballs being launched from palms, the resurrecting of our allies after they have died, the conjuring and control of demons, the storing of dozens and dozens of items in our pockets...
the instant teleportation from one zone (or even dimension) to another, the turning of foes into sheep, the shape shifting into multiple animals, and the ability to dualwield light sabers ALL get a pass.....But Goddamit, moving while swinging an axe is UNREALISTIC.
All good action games always had rooting since forever for that very reason imo.
That was until the ADHD gen though...
Don't bother, they either wont understand what you're saying( not willing to listen cuz it gets in the way of their Fun... You know... Fun! WEEEEEE! /sigh)) or simply insist that they are right and you or wrong. No matter if attacking in pettry much all its form needs to be done either still or firmly grounded to have any kind of accuracy or power behind it.
Whatever... Moving on.
This. Seriously.
God of War, Bayonetta, Devil May Cry, etc. In every one of those games you lose free movement as soon as you execute a move. Some moves may propel you forward or in some other direction, but you don't just get to move around any way you want while executing all your moves.
The same applies with EVERY single fighting game, yet nobody who plays fighting game feels like their characters are rooted in place.
Why did this EVER become a thing? In any kind of real life combat whenever you are executing a strike you have to standing still or at the very least lunging in the direction of the strike (most of the time forward). And casting while moving?? what?? most people cant even walk and eat at the same time how the hell can u expect to do something that requires an extreme amount of concentration while running? Even in FPS games, when you are running and trying to shoot you get penalized in terms of accuracy of your target reticule. I dont know why gamers expect such an unnatural thing to be standard in mmorpg games. You know why in a lot of games the character models look weird while attacking and running? IT'S BECAUSE ITS UNNATURAL AND DOESNT MAKE SENSE. Maybe because people are so used to watching crazy anime shows where people are fighting each other while flying in mid air or while sprinting in a field.
What's UNNATURAL is shooting fireballs from your fingertips, hitting a "monster" a hundred times with a sword to kill it but not hacking off any of it's limbs while shouting obscenities at said monster, thus making it so mad it will only attack you while your buddy UNNATURALLY heals you by chanting and moving his arms around. Dying a couple of times throughout the day just to magically resurrect in another location with all of your stuff every time. And you are asking about the validity of moving while fighting?
Please tell a outfighter boxer to fight against a infighter while standing still, makes sense.
btw those are games we are talking about they don't need to be realistic, funny that you talk about FPS games while neglecting the fact that after you get hit by 7.62 mm or 5.56 mm Nato ammunition often times you still move around, this of course is allot more realistic.
I watched a Lord of the Rings movie and this Ranger slid down the railing of a staircase, firing off three arrows in a row while doing it, and when he got to the bottom he stabbed a bad guy in the face with an arrow. That was cool to see. It's also cool to do stuff like that in MMOs.
There's realism and there's fun. Certain levels of realism minutia most people don't give a flaming crap about.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
What happens to every game that trades in Fun to buy Realism?
Fellas? Ya'll know the answer.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
yes because i have gotten into multiple fights, i am a boxing/MMA stuff enthusiast, and i used to spar regularly with people who do MMA. Yes, you need to move around a lot, but when you actually execute an attack for a split second or so your legs are planted on the ground. most of the power you need to deliver an attack comes from your core and your legs so if you do not have proper footing(which rarely happens while you are running) you are not executing the most amount of force that you can. in boxing a lot of the dodging is accomplished by torso and head movement, not necessarily stepping backwards.
Of course, you need to be moving around when you fight, just watch any boxing or mma fight. its bad to have people running circles around you. but when you actually do decide to throw a punch you need to stay put even for a split second. with that said, moving around in games while fighting should be encouraged but when you do decide to attack, a rooting mechanic that makes you stay put for a split second is definitely justified.
now i understand the common misconception everyone is having behind combat fluidity :P
+1
some people here are obviously misunderstanding movement between attacks and movement during the attack
do a full power ovehead downward swing with a huge axe and try to stop it in mid swing, you cant do it!
now do the same swing and try to jump or walk forward, how is it working for you? it will work if you reduce the power of the swing significantly so much in fact that it doesnt threaten anyone
yeah sure i agree that the switch between an attack and a block should be allowed during the attack animation
i mean thats what sword fights are all about arent they?
and if the attacks are divided to light and heavy attacks even better, light attacks would do 60% less damage and can be done while running or something
and what comes to kiting.... well too bad for melee users thats how it is with rifles and hand guns aswell you cant knife a sniper that is 500 meters across the street
What is the issue here? If you don't like to cast and move at the same time, just stay still and hit the fire ball spell button and move after the animation ends. What is holding you? Not the animation, of course!
All good action games always had rooting since forever for that very reason imo.
That was until the ADHD gen though...
Don't bother, they either wont understand what you're saying( not willing to listen cuz it gets in the way of their Fun... You know... Fun! WEEEEEE! /sigh)) or simply insist that they are right and you or wrong. No matter if attacking in pettry much all its form needs to be done either still or firmly grounded to have any kind of accuracy or power behind it.
Whatever... Moving on.
This. Seriously.
God of War, Bayonetta, Devil May Cry, etc. In every one of those games you lose free movement as soon as you execute a move. Some moves may propel you forward or in some other direction, but you don't just get to move around any way you want while executing all your moves.
The same applies with EVERY single fighting game, yet nobody who plays fighting game feels like their characters are rooted in place.
When talking about an Action game combat system (Tera, etc.), yes there is much truth to this. Rooting in place for attacking has a purpose of adding the need for timing and planning.
Removing roots just means you're endlessly circle strafing while mindlessly smashing 1,2,3: that isn't adding depth. If anything it stripped depth out since your need to time and plan are really no longer a concern.
But when talking about the traditional standing in place while dodge-and-block are entirely RNG controlled is a different matter, I think. I could see it going either way. I want to say games like Diablo 2 were like this, but I actually think they had roots for most of their attacks; just very, very short ones. I can't quite be sure, since I just whirlwinded around everywhere (which while fun, wasn't anywhere near the realm of "deep", heh).
Too much Hollywood.. People honestly think you can reliably fight like jedis on steroids.. We all know you can't SHOOT a sharp shooter rifle while moving.. If you want to shoot a gun on the move, you better have a semi-auto and expect to MISS a lot.. and I do mean A LOT..
Have you ever seen two people actually get in a fight? Very rarely do they just stand across from each other, don't bother moving, and toss punches....I mean a real fight, with lethal intent....Like when you're in the streets and one guy is feed another guy's face into the wall after pounding him into a huddled mess in the ground and straddling him to punch him more....
We ain't practicing old school you shoot me, I shoot you....
As a trained fighter I can say the Op's second post is spot on, which he's arguing on behalf of rooted abilities. In a fight people don't run around frantically, they move for positioning or defense. The same goes for a fire fight, you don't run around shooting recklessly in organized combat. You'd hardly hit anything, which also goes for a fist fight, any strong attack "roots" your movement if you know what you're doing.
A good punch is thrown squarely, the only punch you should be using while moving is a jab or occasional light hook. You use these for two reasons, set up and disruption.
As a trained mage, I can say, when I shoot fireball from my hands, I do have to stay still, but that's in real life, we are playing a video game!!!
Get a life you freaking Gamer.....no no, you don't understand, I'm a Gamer, I have many lives!!
Oh geeze. Keep your reality out of my Fantasy Video Game.
Lol, seriously though. I don't look for exact realism in my video games. It is a fantasy and I do Real Life enough already.
That is funny in a way.. NO, I"m not making fun at you.. I'm just thinking to myself that YES, it is fantasy, and with fantasy such as Star Wars, Star Trek or LoTR we can do whatever we feel like doing.. I personally love the epic jedi fights.. Realistic they are not, but Jedi's aren't real so they can do whatever the imagination says they can....
However, that being said.. It's funny how gamers today selectively demand realism like "smart AI's or trinity isn't real combat,, BUT have no problem tossing realism OUT THE DOOR when it suits them, like a Jedi mind pushing someone off a cliff.. LOL
Why did this EVER become a thing? In any kind of real life combat whenever you are executing a strike you have to standing still or at the very least lunging in the direction of the strike (most of the time forward). And casting while moving?? what?? most people cant even walk and eat at the same time how the hell can u expect to do something that requires an extreme amount of concentration while running? Even in FPS games, when you are running and trying to shoot you get penalized in terms of accuracy of your target reticule. I dont know why gamers expect such an unnatural thing to be standard in mmorpg games. You know why in a lot of games the character models look weird while attacking and running? IT'S BECAUSE ITS UNNATURAL AND DOESNT MAKE SENSE. Maybe because people are so used to watching crazy anime shows where people are fighting each other while flying in mid air or while sprinting in a field.
Your just trolling us right?
So you think a group of charging vikings would just charge and then stop in front othe their enemies and then swing their axes..
Horse back archery.. some indian in ameria charging down someone with a bow an arrow whiel on his horse would stop the horse to attack?
Movement is part of combat and always has been... rooting your self to the ground to attack is not natural. especially in melee combat where if you did that you would end up dead.. yes with modern ranged weapons its good to stop and fire but then you move again and keep moving otherwise your dead.
Take a look at this.
They are moving around all the time even when punching...
Most attacks incorporate movement, but what I think the OP was getting at was "you don't circle strafe an opponent while throwing punches at their head."
And that has more to do with video game movement and combat vs real life movement and combat. In real life, momentum is a thing and physics kind of exists and lateral movement will greatly reduce your ability to connect and to do so forcefully. Whereas forward movement will actually make your blow stronger and faster.
I think OP, you should have gone with" video game combat physics are wonky and could be done better."
But what's real is not always what's fun. So there's that.
Why did this EVER become a thing? In any kind of real life combat whenever you are executing a strike you have to standing still or at the very least lunging in the direction of the strike (most of the time forward). And casting while moving?? what?? most people cant even walk and eat at the same time how the hell can u expect to do something that requires an extreme amount of concentration while running? Even in FPS games, when you are running and trying to shoot you get penalized in terms of accuracy of your target reticule. I dont know why gamers expect such an unnatural thing to be standard in mmorpg games. You know why in a lot of games the character models look weird while attacking and running? IT'S BECAUSE ITS UNNATURAL AND DOESNT MAKE SENSE. Maybe because people are so used to watching crazy anime shows where people are fighting each other while flying in mid air or while sprinting in a field.
What's UNNATURAL is shooting fireballs from your fingertips, hitting a "monster" a hundred times with a sword to kill it but not hacking off any of it's limbs while shouting obscenities at said monster, thus making it so mad it will only attack you while your buddy UNNATURALLY heals you by chanting and moving his arms around. Dying a couple of times throughout the day just to magically resurrect in another location with all of your stuff every time. And you are asking about the validity of moving while fighting?
And yet we see post after post on these forums from people who like the "run around like you're on fire" action combat complaining that they want better mob AI because they want more realistic combat. Cognitive dissonance off the charts there.
___________________________ Have flask; will travel.
Originally posted by Arakazi Problem is magic and projectiles don't really require aiming whilst melee requires you to be up close therefore without some movement penalty, mages and rangers will kite just about everything.
Thats just a matter what skills you will give the meele classes to catch the ranged classes, (rush and break their knees) something that slows.
And yes I TOTALLY agree with the OP, it really annoys me when people start arguing with --> "In this MMO you get rooted, this animation must suck and is totally bad, its not a game for me"
Why the hell animation must be bad just cuz of the root and how this answer became one of the standart answer in so many MMO review comments.
I don't get the point of this thread? Why does it bother you? Because it's not realistic? Sure it is. It's very feasible that these otherwise incredibly powerful people are also powerful enough to do things while moving. I'm not sure why you think it's ok that somebody can jump 7 feet in the air and throw fireballs, but that same person can't do these things while moving.
I can tell you why I prefer it: It's more fun and in general it's more skillful. Games like darkfall make it essential that you move while attacking because you're also dodging the other person's attack
true everything is exaggerated a lot in game ,if it was like real life ?you might see the guy jump one side of the other , duck or jump in the air if he gets kicked !but you wouldn't see what we see today ! true ! till they add good ai tho they cant do real life ,imagine this !I taunt you (name calling )you get angry stare at me my friend 2 shot you you are dead (we re still in game scenario here) if one were an ai foe can you imagine how bored people would be ! but then now people are bored anyhow so
it might be time to come back to realistic ! it is like real life ,there is no third person view (yet)
yet in game everything is in third person view !imagine if you were to be in first person view with realistic mechanic like before
you taunt the ai npc your friend 2 shot the ai npc ! for now this time it worked !but with an ai foe !you would be baited into something etc !
I don't say it isn't possible it is very easy !but for some reason people get scared wwwhen they re stuck in first person view
test it for fun one day
ask blizzard to make a first person view arena fight !
yep just doing this small move blizzard would change the arena pvp from being hard to ngithmare pvp arena (cheer)
imagine hydra vs other top in first person view ?and make what those two saw avail for viewer !
why it isn't popular then ?because most cant play in first person view ! there is an effect on human body !eyes try to correct something that doesn't need to be corrected etc ! it was tried lot of game fell .the only way first person work is if the difference between real world and fake is so dramatic that the brain cannot be mistaken,but anytime you try to make game more realistic
So you think a group of charging vikings would just charge and then stop in front othe their enemies and then swing their axes..
Now, lets start with charging vikings. Hell, lets start with any historical force charging into melee.
The troops actually -did- stop (mostly) in front of their enemies. Shieldwalls exist for a reason, you know? Frenchies were most famous for charging, but they lost their most famous battles for a reason... I wonder why. Charging and Blitzkrieg only work if you catch your opponent unaware or are flanking them.
Check any historical document about medieval combat, or now that you first mentioned it, vikings. Thanks to some records being kept safe, we can actually study the past and with our modern technology, we can find physical proof to many things.
Now, charging blindly into unarmed civilians? That works. Charging into anyone holding a pointy object towards you? That's not so smart. Then again, compared to other military forces of their time, Vikings also became known by another formation called Wedge / Boar snout / swine array (though less popular than the shieldwall.) Wedge as a formation has been used since people becan to fight in masses. Now, I won't be linking more info about this, but check Roman Empire's military tactics.
Quote:
"The Shieldwall
Once battle was joined, each side would form a line of warriors, perhaps several deep, formed into the "shield wall". Each warrior overlaps his shield on both sides, presenting a wall which is strong enough to stop a rushing opponent from penetrating...
With many spears in the lines, the opponent opposite and those up to four down the line were within reach, making combat frantic and deadly. To step out of the line was to die. Retreat of even a few feet could lead to loss of initiative, and would eventually result in a wholesale withdrawal or even rout. With men standing so close and in several ranks, movement was limited, and even highly trained warriors would find it difficult to manoeuver quickly on the battlefield. As a result, outflanking moves were common, and unless stopped quickly could prove overwhelming."
Movement is part of combat and always has been... rooting your self to the ground to attack is not natural. especially in melee combat where if you did that you would end up dead.. yes with modern ranged weapons its good to stop and fire but then you move again and keep moving otherwise your dead.
Movement is a part of combat, indeed, but the problem here is that MMOs like WoW and whatever promote the traditional circle-strafing-blackjacking-fests what we "pros" (kidding) learned back in the days of Thief 1. Very few games promote realistic combat or movement, which is truely a shame - it's probably one of the hardest things to simulate due to all the variations.
Mount&Blade series has always tried to simulate realistic combat (while still being an RPG) and has done that amazingly well, but sadly it's still quite limited by the technology used in the game's engine.
And moving a bit off-topic (away from MMOs) ArmA-series simulates realistic modern infantry movement and ranged combat in amazing depth, compared to stuff like Call of Duty or Battlefield where you jump off buildings and instantly open parachutes or run and gun.
I'm one for full realism in my video games. I enjoy milsims and slow paced strategic games, but I also love RPGs and "gamey" mechanics. The problem here is that majority of players want to have their games (and movies) cool and fun (and more than often Epic, like those Lord of the rings things linked earlier.) The fun is not the problem, but because devs often take the easy way out, they just do the cool factor with a lot of explosions and big special effects. - I ask you this, wouldn't it be fun to have a massive MMO with respawns and all, but more realistic combat? Formations the size of warbands? Deadly combat. Slower, tactical, brutal combat. No jumping, strafing and spamming instant cast spells at people and watching their hit points go down.
Movement of an individual fighter becomes more and more critical when we talk about smaller skirmishes. You do not want to stand still against a single opponent, but when we are talking about units and medieval combat, -and- when we include the risk of dying, losing or morale in theory.. well, suddenly things go to a whole new level, don't they? Of course we are talking about games, so morale, death and such do not really matter. But if we talk about realistic combat, shouldn't we always strive for something more? The games what I play online include suppression and "morale" and I absolutely love it.
DDO is the only more traditional MMO what has some sense in it's melee. If you move, you suffer a penalty to your chance to hit. If you attack from standing still, no such penalty is taken. If you roll to evade a blow, you gain a chance to evade it and so on.
I don't think we need to return to modern combat, but lets just say that you don't want to move in the open and you want to stick to cover. It's all even better if you can stick to cover, stay still and aim at something. Moving, exhausting yourself and then trying to aim precisely is not something a majority of soldiers is trained to do.
PS. Perhaps we should ask ourselves: Do we want our characters to be heroes who do things what no normal people do, or do we want something different for a change? Do we want realism and how much of it do we want? Most important; What do we enjoy in games?
I vote for Variety. I want unrealistic games, realistic games, simulations and I definately want RPGs. Sadly, I no longer want more WoW and Everquest 2 clones. Or GW2 like games...
Being able to run around in circles while swinging your blade or axe or whatever is not qutie right but rooting a character to the spot while is swings is even worse..
I like that combat system in Cihvalry, monut and blade or war of the roses.. it works really well and you cant really run around people because your mvoement speed is not that fast jsut like in real life i guess.. so you end u pmoving around in those games to get the best position very much like a boxing match i guess..
Mortal Online has a very similar combat system but of course the game is pretty buggy so most people have not really got that far into it.
Comments
I'll agree the hopping around is annoying, but standing still while trading blows is not exactly less mindless.
And for the grand finale. The Ring that rules them all
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMTYFeAbTEk
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
It's both fun, and increases a game's depth by making combat more dynamic. What's not to like?
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
This post is utterly absurd. Power is drawn from the back foot for the vast majority of attacks. Your core is only used to transfer that energy.
There is no such thing as a second or third kick in the air in a real fight, its just a stupid stunt like many things that traditional martial artists do. Even in these stunts attacks are never made at the same angle, they are intentionally angled in such a way that a first strike will not effect momentum in the direction of the second stunt.
Movement in modern games is indeed extremely unrealistic. Hand to hand combat movements are relatively subtle and reactionary because spacing and timing are precise components of combat and moving around is pointless and great waste of energy.
I don't know if game designers care about these issues though, although I agree it does make combat - particularly PVP hilariously stupid looking.
The fireballs being launched from palms, the resurrecting of our allies after they have died, the conjuring and control of demons, the storing of dozens and dozens of items in our pockets...
the instant teleportation from one zone (or even dimension) to another, the turning of foes into sheep, the shape shifting into multiple animals, and the ability to dualwield light sabers ALL get a pass.....But Goddamit, moving while swinging an axe is UNREALISTIC.
This. Seriously.
God of War, Bayonetta, Devil May Cry, etc. In every one of those games you lose free movement as soon as you execute a move. Some moves may propel you forward or in some other direction, but you don't just get to move around any way you want while executing all your moves.
The same applies with EVERY single fighting game, yet nobody who plays fighting game feels like their characters are rooted in place.
What's UNNATURAL is shooting fireballs from your fingertips, hitting a "monster" a hundred times with a sword to kill it but not hacking off any of it's limbs while shouting obscenities at said monster, thus making it so mad it will only attack you while your buddy UNNATURALLY heals you by chanting and moving his arms around. Dying a couple of times throughout the day just to magically resurrect in another location with all of your stuff every time. And you are asking about the validity of moving while fighting?
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
Please tell a outfighter boxer to fight against a infighter while standing still, makes sense.
btw those are games we are talking about they don't need to be realistic, funny that you talk about FPS games while neglecting the fact that after you get hit by 7.62 mm or 5.56 mm Nato ammunition often times you still move around, this of course is allot more realistic.
I watched a Lord of the Rings movie and this Ranger slid down the railing of a staircase, firing off three arrows in a row while doing it, and when he got to the bottom he stabbed a bad guy in the face with an arrow. That was cool to see. It's also cool to do stuff like that in MMOs.
There's realism and there's fun. Certain levels of realism minutia most people don't give a flaming crap about.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
What happens to every game that trades in Fun to buy Realism?
Fellas? Ya'll know the answer.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
+1
some people here are obviously misunderstanding movement between attacks and movement during the attack
do a full power ovehead downward swing with a huge axe and try to stop it in mid swing, you cant do it!
now do the same swing and try to jump or walk forward, how is it working for you? it will work if you reduce the power of the swing significantly so much in fact that it doesnt threaten anyone
yeah sure i agree that the switch between an attack and a block should be allowed during the attack animation
i mean thats what sword fights are all about arent they?
and if the attacks are divided to light and heavy attacks even better, light attacks would do 60% less damage and can be done while running or something
and what comes to kiting.... well too bad for melee users thats how it is with rifles and hand guns aswell you cant knife a sniper that is 500 meters across the street
When talking about an Action game combat system (Tera, etc.), yes there is much truth to this. Rooting in place for attacking has a purpose of adding the need for timing and planning.
Removing roots just means you're endlessly circle strafing while mindlessly smashing 1,2,3: that isn't adding depth. If anything it stripped depth out since your need to time and plan are really no longer a concern.
But when talking about the traditional standing in place while dodge-and-block are entirely RNG controlled is a different matter, I think. I could see it going either way. I want to say games like Diablo 2 were like this, but I actually think they had roots for most of their attacks; just very, very short ones. I can't quite be sure, since I just whirlwinded around everywhere (which while fun, wasn't anywhere near the realm of "deep", heh).
As a trained mage, I can say, when I shoot fireball from my hands, I do have to stay still, but that's in real life, we are playing a video game!!!
Get a life you freaking Gamer.....no no, you don't understand, I'm a Gamer, I have many lives!!
That is funny in a way.. NO, I"m not making fun at you.. I'm just thinking to myself that YES, it is fantasy, and with fantasy such as Star Wars, Star Trek or LoTR we can do whatever we feel like doing.. I personally love the epic jedi fights.. Realistic they are not, but Jedi's aren't real so they can do whatever the imagination says they can....
However, that being said.. It's funny how gamers today selectively demand realism like "smart AI's or trinity isn't real combat,, BUT have no problem tossing realism OUT THE DOOR when it suits them, like a Jedi mind pushing someone off a cliff.. LOL
Your just trolling us right?
So you think a group of charging vikings would just charge and then stop in front othe their enemies and then swing their axes..
Horse back archery.. some indian in ameria charging down someone with a bow an arrow whiel on his horse would stop the horse to attack?
Movement is part of combat and always has been... rooting your self to the ground to attack is not natural. especially in melee combat where if you did that you would end up dead.. yes with modern ranged weapons its good to stop and fire but then you move again and keep moving otherwise your dead.
Take a look at this.
They are moving around all the time even when punching...
Most attacks incorporate movement, but what I think the OP was getting at was "you don't circle strafe an opponent while throwing punches at their head."
And that has more to do with video game movement and combat vs real life movement and combat. In real life, momentum is a thing and physics kind of exists and lateral movement will greatly reduce your ability to connect and to do so forcefully. Whereas forward movement will actually make your blow stronger and faster.
I think OP, you should have gone with" video game combat physics are wonky and could be done better."
But what's real is not always what's fun. So there's that.
And yet we see post after post on these forums from people who like the "run around like you're on fire" action combat complaining that they want better mob AI because they want more realistic combat. Cognitive dissonance off the charts there.
___________________________
Have flask; will travel.
Thats just a matter what skills you will give the meele classes to catch the ranged classes, (rush and break their knees) something that slows.
And yes I TOTALLY agree with the OP, it really annoys me when people start arguing with --> "In this MMO you get rooted, this animation must suck and is totally bad, its not a game for me"
Why the hell animation must be bad just cuz of the root and how this answer became one of the standart answer in so many MMO review comments.
I don't get the point of this thread? Why does it bother you? Because it's not realistic? Sure it is. It's very feasible that these otherwise incredibly powerful people are also powerful enough to do things while moving. I'm not sure why you think it's ok that somebody can jump 7 feet in the air and throw fireballs, but that same person can't do these things while moving.
I can tell you why I prefer it: It's more fun and in general it's more skillful. Games like darkfall make it essential that you move while attacking because you're also dodging the other person's attack
true everything is exaggerated a lot in game ,if it was like real life ?you might see the guy jump one side of the other , duck or jump in the air if he gets kicked !but you wouldn't see what we see today ! true ! till they add good ai tho they cant do real life ,imagine this !I taunt you (name calling )you get angry stare at me my friend 2 shot you you are dead (we re still in game scenario here) if one were an ai foe can you imagine how bored people would be ! but then now people are bored anyhow so
it might be time to come back to realistic ! it is like real life ,there is no third person view (yet)
yet in game everything is in third person view !imagine if you were to be in first person view with realistic mechanic like before
you taunt the ai npc your friend 2 shot the ai npc ! for now this time it worked !but with an ai foe !you would be baited into something etc !
I don't say it isn't possible it is very easy !but for some reason people get scared wwwhen they re stuck in first person view
test it for fun one day
ask blizzard to make a first person view arena fight !
yep just doing this small move blizzard would change the arena pvp from being hard to ngithmare pvp arena (cheer)
imagine hydra vs other top in first person view ?and make what those two saw avail for viewer !
why it isn't popular then ?because most cant play in first person view ! there is an effect on human body !eyes try to correct something that doesn't need to be corrected etc ! it was tried lot of game fell .the only way first person work is if the difference between real world and fake is so dramatic that the brain cannot be mistaken,but anytime you try to make game more realistic
then first person view is a nono !
I have to bite, starting with this.
Now, lets start with charging vikings. Hell, lets start with any historical force charging into melee.
The troops actually -did- stop (mostly) in front of their enemies. Shieldwalls exist for a reason, you know? Frenchies were most famous for charging, but they lost their most famous battles for a reason... I wonder why. Charging and Blitzkrieg only work if you catch your opponent unaware or are flanking them.
Check any historical document about medieval combat, or now that you first mentioned it, vikings. Thanks to some records being kept safe, we can actually study the past and with our modern technology, we can find physical proof to many things.
Now, charging blindly into unarmed civilians? That works. Charging into anyone holding a pointy object towards you? That's not so smart. Then again, compared to other military forces of their time, Vikings also became known by another formation called Wedge / Boar snout / swine array (though less popular than the shieldwall.) Wedge as a formation has been used since people becan to fight in masses. Now, I won't be linking more info about this, but check Roman Empire's military tactics.
Quote:
"The Shieldwall
Once battle was joined, each side would form a line of warriors, perhaps several deep, formed into the "shield wall". Each warrior overlaps his shield on both sides, presenting a wall which is strong enough to stop a rushing opponent from penetrating...
With many spears in the lines, the opponent opposite and those up to four down the line were within reach, making combat frantic and deadly. To step out of the line was to die. Retreat of even a few feet could lead to loss of initiative, and would eventually result in a wholesale withdrawal or even rout. With men standing so close and in several ranks, movement was limited, and even highly trained warriors would find it difficult to manoeuver quickly on the battlefield. As a result, outflanking moves were common, and unless stopped quickly could prove overwhelming."
source: http://digilander.libero.it/tepec/vikcombat.htm
Also see: http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/vikings/weapons_01.shtml#five
And: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shield_wall
Movement is a part of combat, indeed, but the problem here is that MMOs like WoW and whatever promote the traditional circle-strafing-blackjacking-fests what we "pros" (kidding) learned back in the days of Thief 1. Very few games promote realistic combat or movement, which is truely a shame - it's probably one of the hardest things to simulate due to all the variations.
Mount&Blade series has always tried to simulate realistic combat (while still being an RPG) and has done that amazingly well, but sadly it's still quite limited by the technology used in the game's engine.
And moving a bit off-topic (away from MMOs) ArmA-series simulates realistic modern infantry movement and ranged combat in amazing depth, compared to stuff like Call of Duty or Battlefield where you jump off buildings and instantly open parachutes or run and gun.
I'm one for full realism in my video games. I enjoy milsims and slow paced strategic games, but I also love RPGs and "gamey" mechanics. The problem here is that majority of players want to have their games (and movies) cool and fun (and more than often Epic, like those Lord of the rings things linked earlier.) The fun is not the problem, but because devs often take the easy way out, they just do the cool factor with a lot of explosions and big special effects. - I ask you this, wouldn't it be fun to have a massive MMO with respawns and all, but more realistic combat? Formations the size of warbands? Deadly combat. Slower, tactical, brutal combat. No jumping, strafing and spamming instant cast spells at people and watching their hit points go down.
Movement of an individual fighter becomes more and more critical when we talk about smaller skirmishes. You do not want to stand still against a single opponent, but when we are talking about units and medieval combat, -and- when we include the risk of dying, losing or morale in theory.. well, suddenly things go to a whole new level, don't they? Of course we are talking about games, so morale, death and such do not really matter. But if we talk about realistic combat, shouldn't we always strive for something more? The games what I play online include suppression and "morale" and I absolutely love it.
DDO is the only more traditional MMO what has some sense in it's melee. If you move, you suffer a penalty to your chance to hit. If you attack from standing still, no such penalty is taken. If you roll to evade a blow, you gain a chance to evade it and so on.
I don't think we need to return to modern combat, but lets just say that you don't want to move in the open and you want to stick to cover. It's all even better if you can stick to cover, stay still and aim at something. Moving, exhausting yourself and then trying to aim precisely is not something a majority of soldiers is trained to do.
PS. Perhaps we should ask ourselves: Do we want our characters to be heroes who do things what no normal people do, or do we want something different for a change? Do we want realism and how much of it do we want? Most important; What do we enjoy in games?
I vote for Variety. I want unrealistic games, realistic games, simulations and I definately want RPGs. Sadly, I no longer want more WoW and Everquest 2 clones. Or GW2 like games...
PPS. Amen to Rusque well above there!
We?re all dead, just say it.
its hard to get combat movement right in games..
Being able to run around in circles while swinging your blade or axe or whatever is not qutie right but rooting a character to the spot while is swings is even worse..
I like that combat system in Cihvalry, monut and blade or war of the roses.. it works really well and you cant really run around people because your mvoement speed is not that fast jsut like in real life i guess.. so you end u pmoving around in those games to get the best position very much like a boxing match i guess..
Mortal Online has a very similar combat system but of course the game is pretty buggy so most people have not really got that far into it.