I'm not saying you can't group in GW2 or anything. I'm saying the game mechanics and the lack of trinity promote not grouping until end game.
Thanks for pointing this out about the game mechanics of GW2 .... I always thought you got away more loot running in a group of 5 then running solo . I'm really pissed finding out those guys letting on they were healing and helping me survive weren't doing anything but cutting into the amount of loot I was getting , Next time I see someone calling out group of 3 need 2 more ..all welcome I'm going to point out Swanea told me "Not to group until end game because of the lack of trinity promotes not grouping
Here is the thing,they removed the ROLE out of role playing and the community out of grouping,yet somehow they were bantering about how they were creating a better community game.
I guess truth be told,a developer can say whatever they want and a lot of the times,everyone buys into it the speech syndrome.
There are a lot of games masquerading as mmorpg's ,imo there was only ever one true fully fledged mmorpg and that was FFXI.There is an argument for say Eq1 but that is in the time before when graphics were really bad and MMOrpg's were not a trendy thing.
Blizzard was the first big player t ocash in on the DSL wave when millions of new gamer's hit this genre.So they created a stereotype about how this genre would be played.A LOT of soloing and a LOT of ignoring the main game to race to end game and instances.
Point is that it is a far cry to blame Arena.Net,just more very average developers copying that same trend.
You also have to remember the GREED factor,there is no way a MMO will hit it's maximum input if they do not cater to soloing.
So what a lot if not all developers are doing now,is create a game that caters to the most players,cut a lot of corners and just tell all the gamer's what they want to hear,almost like a presidential political speech full of propaganda."Come play our game,we LISTEN and we are making this game for you the players because we KNOW your complaints"you know all that kind of crap they like to feed us.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Talk to people? I have been playing GW2 since launch and I am currently in 3 guilds and find myself constantly talking to people. Just because you choose to be unsocial why blame it on the game?
Ive met some terrific people just wandering around the world and helping others out. Not that difficult just saying "Hi". Great conversation opener!
QFT!!!!
The only shortcoming in Gw2's social aspect in my opinion is the lack of built-in VoIP. I find myself at Mumble the whole time I play Gw2
LOL.
The only problem with GW2's society is that you have to use outside software to enjoy it. Besides that. it's perfect!
GW2 fanboys should learn the platinum rule, rather than shouting down anyone who can see obvious flaws in the game.
What MMO has built in VOIP? Which ones? TERA-NO. TSW-NO. SWTOR-NO. RIFT-NO. WoW-NO. LOTRO-NO. AION-NO. Should I go on?
I am a rather social person or at least I think so. I'm a role player by heart so I always look for social interaction in MMO games. Many times I said hello to someone in GW2, many times I asked if anyone was looking for some group question - not once did anyone say anything back. They were just speeding along doing their own thing. I guess being social would slow them down.
I played WoW from beginning so I remember the old days when you simply had to wait around for a group. Was it annoying? Yes, of course it was - but guess what? That's how I met 90% of people with whom I'd later form a guild. Was even a guild leader of a RP and light raiding guild so don't talk to me about me not wanting to be social.
Fact is, GW2 doesn't put you in to spots where you have a slightest chance of being social with someone. And how can I join a good guild when I don't even meet anyone from said guild? A simple forum recruitment post is not enough.
The reason why I made this thread because it's rather ironic - people zerging on a world boss, but no one talking to anyone (expect some spam) - we just gather there, destroy the evil big monster and we go our separate ways. Is this MMO?
EDIT:
Sorry, just remembered the main problem of GW2 - there is grouping and group content (such was world bosses and harder monsters), but GW2 takes care of everything for you. You just go there and voila - you are grouped. Everything is automated, there is no need to type anything to anyone, it all happens for you. So at least I feel very disconnected from such a group event and a game in general.
You're right. In GW2 you are automatically grouped up for dungeons and WvW. ...oh wait.
The problem is you, not the game. Why is it that last night i joined a group for the latest living story? Oh that's right, i asked in map chat if anyone wanted to group for some events, and they joined. Try it.
Because that is your experience and not necessarily anyone else's experience. He obviously felt differently about other MMOs so maybe there is a reason that he feels this way about this one. This is far from the first thread about this and there are lots of posts in this thread with people having a similar experience. If lots of experience people who have played numerous MMOs all claim the same thing, then most likely it is not them, but something about the game that causes it.
If you read my other posts, i pointed this out. It's the way most current MMOs are designed, and GW2 isn't an exception. However, he's claiming everything is automated in GW2, thus exaggerating his experience, so i pointed it out in a sarcastic manner.
It's also funny that you mention, "He obviously felt differently about other MMOs".. Really? With every new MMO that comes out, you'll see the same thing from people like him. "This MMO is a singleplayer game!", "There is no socialization in this game!", etc... Go read any WoW forums and you will see the same complaint made 8 years ago, or any other MMO since then.
Ultimately, the problem is with the player. There are many ways to communicate and socialize in MMOs, but i guess it's just easier to complain about it and blame the game, giving you and others an excuse to bash the newest MMO.
I would have to disagree with you. The number of posts on this issue with GW2 number more than usual. I didn't see so many of these posts with TSW or even with the Final Fantasy 14 AAR beta. I certainly didn't see anywhere near this number when WoW first released. This seems to be one of the main complaints against GW2, and in my opinion, due to the number of people that complain of this issue, there must be some merit to this. Sure, the player bears some responsibility, but the mechanics of the game greatly hinder or help with the social aspects of the game's community.
What you call bashing, is someone pointing out a flaw that they have with the game. Why do you care if people are critical of the game? If you are happy with it, then go play it. Your experience is different from others. Maybe this play style suits you? Obviously there are a large number of people who have issues with certain aspects of the game and wish to discuss it. Is this not a discussion forum?
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
I am a rather social person or at least I think so. I'm a role player by heart so I always look for social interaction in MMO games. Many times I said hello to someone in GW2, many times I asked if anyone was looking for some group question - not once did anyone say anything back. They were just speeding along doing their own thing. I guess being social would slow them down.
I played WoW from beginning so I remember the old days when you simply had to wait around for a group. Was it annoying? Yes, of course it was - but guess what? That's how I met 90% of people with whom I'd later form a guild. Was even a guild leader of a RP and light raiding guild so don't talk to me about me not wanting to be social.
Fact is, GW2 doesn't put you in to spots where you have a slightest chance of being social with someone. And how can I join a good guild when I don't even meet anyone from said guild? A simple forum recruitment post is not enough.
The reason why I made this thread because it's rather ironic - people zerging on a world boss, but no one talking to anyone (expect some spam) - we just gather there, destroy the evil big monster and we go our separate ways. Is this MMO?
EDIT:
Sorry, just remembered the main problem of GW2 - there is grouping and group content (such was world bosses and harder monsters), but GW2 takes care of everything for you. You just go there and voila - you are grouped. Everything is automated, there is no need to type anything to anyone, it all happens for you. So at least I feel very disconnected from such a group event and a game in general.
You're right. In GW2 you are automatically grouped up for dungeons and WvW. ...oh wait.
The problem is you, not the game. Why is it that last night i joined a group for the latest living story? Oh that's right, i asked in map chat if anyone wanted to group for some events, and they joined. Try it.
Because that is your experience and not necessarily anyone else's experience. He obviously felt differently about other MMOs so maybe there is a reason that he feels this way about this one. This is far from the first thread about this and there are lots of posts in this thread with people having a similar experience. If lots of experience people who have played numerous MMOs all claim the same thing, then most likely it is not them, but something about the game that causes it.
If you read my other posts, i pointed this out. It's the way most current MMOs are designed, and GW2 isn't an exception. However, he's claiming everything is automated in GW2, thus exaggerating his experience, so i pointed it out in a sarcastic manner.
It's also funny that you mention, "He obviously felt differently about other MMOs".. Really? With every new MMO that comes out, you'll see the same thing from people like him. "This MMO is a singleplayer game!", "There is no socialization in this game!", etc... Go read any WoW forums and you will see the same complaint made 8 years ago, or any other MMO since then.
Ultimately, the problem is with the player. There are many ways to communicate and socialize in MMOs, but i guess it's just easier to complain about it and blame the game, giving you and others an excuse to bash the newest MMO.
The problem with this reasoning is that it focuses on the game, rather than the players. The players are the constant here, across many games. I'm one of these players. I - and others - who have had no trouble making connections and finding socializations in other games have found it significantly more difficult in GW2.
I say this in particular as someone who wants to like the game and have fun in it. I think it's got many very good qualities to it, but at the end of the day the sense of "lonliness" that I get out of it really overshadows all of that. Again, I've had no trouble with the social aspects of other games, so how can it be reasonably claimed that somehow I (or others in similar situations) am really the problem?
I love the canned answer, Join a guild, talk to someone, we're all in Voice chat. Yeah, I did all that too. But see, the OP is right about one thing. The game is designed for "me" not "us" .
But anyway, Join a guild. OK here's how that worked. You start the game, and sooner or later you start getting guild invites. For the most part, you accept them and start checking out all the guilds and find the one you like best as your primary. You start getting to know the players, start socializing getting in with the people there. Signing into Raidcall every day, Running lots of dungeons...well, lots of CoF P-1 anyway. (Although I preferred HoTW more) Anyway, few weeks goes by, you notice you are short a member. "Hey, I haven't seen Uzamaki in a few days". "yeah, he said he's taking some time away...needs a break. Ahh, OK, Week or two goes by. "Hey, Where's Ganndolph?" "I dunno, hasn't been on for a while." "Ahh, hope everything's ok" Week or two goes by...."Havn't seen Nornman on" Lemme guess. He's burned out.
Well, this goes on and within a month or 2 the guild's "Core" is gone. But you stuck it out, so you get promoted to officer but now you have to recruit cuz it's thinning out a bit, so you go on a campaign and get some new blood. And the cycle repeats.....and repeats.......and repeats.....and repeats.....
My 1st guild didn't survive the 2nd cycle, 2nd guild didn't survive the 1st. The co GM was one of the ones to leave and the GM couldn't hold it together. The 3rd guild made it through 4 such cycles. That's when I noticed it wasn't just me and my guilds. But every guild on the server. Rise and fall rise and fall. Some would pull back some wouldn't In each case, the people you became friends with are gone very soon. Sometimes they come back, but the guild isn't the same anymore.
The business model of this game is one of the biggest reasons for this. Also the fact that it's a game you play for 2 months and put it down and maybe come back later and play again. Well, for most that's the case. But regardless, this wrecks guilds. It was never this bad in Rift or WoW, or any other MMO
The problem with this reasoning is that it focuses on the game, rather than the players. The players are the constant here, across many games. I'm one of these players. I - and others - who have had no trouble making connections and finding socializations in other games have found it significantly more difficult in GW2.
I say this in particular as someone who wants to like the game and have fun in it. I think it's got many very good qualities to it, but at the end of the day the sense of "lonliness" that I get out of it really overshadows all of that. Again, I've had no trouble with the social aspects of other games, so how can it be reasonably claimed that somehow I (or others in similar situations) am really the problem?
Thing is.. what about the game is making it harder for you to find social groups? What exactly?
Because if it really is a problem with the game, then you should be able to point to a clear component of the game that causes this to happen. I've played a lot of MMOs, and honestly can't think of any that actually made it easier to meet people. Some games forced grouping more, but that never meant you'd actually make friends.
Honestly, in every game, your ability to meet new people has always came down to your own social skills. Regardless of the game, if you never talk to people, never try and do things with other people, never make the effort yourself, the result is the same. You have a tough time finding people to group with. Your anonymous, and make no effort to change that.
GW2 isn't much different. It has a lot of content that needs to be done as a group. It has multiple methods of play, that are made easier by doing it with others. And it has multiple methods of saving contacts / staying in touch with people. I can honestly say, that to this day, I have zero problems meeting new people in the game. It's something that happens almost daily for me. Heck, I meet people so often in GW2 I often forget who's who on my contacts list. It all comes down to me actually talking to others, not expecting everyone to bend to what I want, being helpful to people, and just finding my own ways to enjoy the game. It's really fairly simple, and people usually have fun just tagging along.
The problem with this reasoning is that it focuses on the game, rather than the players. The players are the constant here, across many games. I'm one of these players. I - and others - who have had no trouble making connections and finding socializations in other games have found it significantly more difficult in GW2.
I say this in particular as someone who wants to like the game and have fun in it. I think it's got many very good qualities to it, but at the end of the day the sense of "lonliness" that I get out of it really overshadows all of that. Again, I've had no trouble with the social aspects of other games, so how can it be reasonably claimed that somehow I (or others in similar situations) am really the problem?
Thing is.. what about the game is making it harder for you to find social groups? What exactly?
Because if it really is a problem with the game, then you should be able to point to a clear component of the game that causes this to happen. I've played a lot of MMOs, and honestly can't think of any that actually made it easier to meet people. Some games forced grouping more, but that never meant you'd actually make friends.
Honestly, in every game, your ability to meet new people has always came down to your own social skills. Regardless of the game, if you never talk to people, never try and do things with other people, never make the effort yourself, the result is the same. You have a tough time finding people to group with. Your anonymous, and make no effort to change that.
GW2 isn't much different. It has a lot of content that needs to be done as a group. It has multiple methods of play, that are made easier by doing it with others. And it has multiple methods of saving contacts / staying in touch with people. I can honestly say, that to this day, I have zero problems meeting new people in the game. It's something that happens almost daily for me. Heck, I meet people so often in GW2 I often forget who's who on my contacts list. It all comes down to me actually talking to others, not expecting everyone to bend to what I want, being helpful to people, and just finding my own ways to enjoy the game. It's really fairly simple, and people usually have fun just tagging along.
I've explained in fairly great detail precisely why this game seems to present problems in this regard where others do not. Others have as well. I will repeat my own examples:
- In other games, the chat is constantly active, providing one way to get to know people. In GW2, the chat is almost always dead. This hasn't even really been disputed here. On the contrary, it's been acknowledged but brushed off as less important because of things like VoIP.
- Most of the "group content" is build around large, zergy groups in which it is very difficult to distinguish individual players' contributions. If I do a 4 man heroic quest with you in TOR, I may recognize you as a good player and try to keep in contact with you. If I do a dynamic event with you in GW2, I very likely have no idea you even exist.
- This problem is worse for PvP. In many MMOs, PvP communities are fairly tight knit and everyone comes to know everyone else to some degree. With a regionwide Heart of the Mists and no "down time" in between PvP matches, its almost impossible to really get to know anyone. You rarely run into the same people twice. Even someone like WoodenPotatoes has recently bemoaned the fact that this game has virtually no PvP community, and these are some of the reasons why.
- As a direct result of the previous 2 points, finding or being recruited into a guild simply doesn't happen in GW2 the way it does in other games. For example, in TOR I was recruited into guilds on the basis of their seeing my consistent performance over days and weeks. That opportunity simply does not exist in GW2. Could one simply apply to one of the random guilds advertising on a forum somewhere? Sure, but that would be a bit like marrying an arbitrary person without any consistent, personal experience with him/her to suggest that it would be a good idea.
- Even in life, we usually make connections by being "put into boxes." Rarely do we make friends after seeing a person once. Rather, we make friends at work because we are required to be their daily. We make friends at a social spot because we go there on some regular basis. We make friends at a restaurant we eat at every day for lunch. Etc. There are exceptions, but they are just that. In the same way, in MMOs, we get to know people because the game design almost forces us to do certain things in certain places at certain times. In attempting to give players the ability to do whatever they would like whenever they would like to, GW2 has also in a way robbed them of the opportunity to make connections in this very natural way. The person I see doing a dynamic event in Queensdale today may be doing something else entirely different tomorrow. It's hard to see people with any consistency so as to develop connections with them.
These are just a few examples. I could continue, but I hope that this helps to illustrate the problems many of us have with making connections in this game.
I would have to disagree with you. The number of posts on this issue with GW2 number more than usual. I didn't see so many of these posts with TSW or even with the Final Fantasy 14 AAR beta. I certainly didn't see anywhere near this number when WoW first released. This seems to be one of the main complaints against GW2, and in my opinion, due to the number of people that complain of this issue, there must be some merit to this. Sure, the player bears some responsibility, but the mechanics of the game greatly hinder or help with the social aspects of the game's community.
What you call bashing, is someone pointing out a flaw that they have with the game. Why do you care if people are critical of the game? If you are happy with it, then go play it. Your experience is different from others. Maybe this play style suits you? Obviously there are a large number of people who have issues with certain aspects of the game and wish to discuss it. Is this not a discussion forum?
Of course you did.
This is the forum with most activity by far for the last year and a half.
This is the MMORPG released in the last 1-2 years with the most activity in markets these forums mostly reach (Europe and N. America).
You saw the most hype, the most praise, the most bashing and the most complains.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
- Most of the "group content" is build around large, zergy groups in which it is very difficult to distinguish individual players' contributions. If I do a 4 man heroic quest with you in TOR, I may recognize you as a good player and try to keep in contact with you. If I do a dynamic event with you in GW2, I very likely have no idea you even exist.
Aren't heroic quest in TOR instances?
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I love the canned answer, Join a guild, talk to someone, we're all in Voice chat. Yeah, I did all that too. But see, the OP is right about one thing. The game is designed for "me" not "us" .
But anyway, Join a guild. OK here's how that worked. You start the game, and sooner or later you start getting guild invites. For the most part, you accept them and start checking out all the guilds and find the one you like best as your primary. You start getting to know the players, start socializing getting in with the people there. Signing into Raidcall every day, Running lots of dungeons...well, lots of CoF P-1 anyway. (Although I preferred HoTW more) Anyway, few weeks goes by, you notice you are short a member. "Hey, I haven't seen Uzamaki in a few days". "yeah, he said he's taking some time away...needs a break. Ahh, OK, Week or two goes by. "Hey, Where's Ganndolph?" "I dunno, hasn't been on for a while." "Ahh, hope everything's ok" Week or two goes by...."Havn't seen Nornman on" Lemme guess. He's burned out.
Well, this goes on and within a month or 2 the guild's "Core" is gone. But you stuck it out, so you get promoted to officer but now you have to recruit cuz it's thinning out a bit, so you go on a campaign and get some new blood. And the cycle repeats.....and repeats.......and repeats.....and repeats.....
My 1st guild didn't survive the 2nd cycle, 2nd guild didn't survive the 1st. The co GM was one of the ones to leave and the GM couldn't hold it together. The 3rd guild made it through 4 such cycles. That's when I noticed it wasn't just me and my guilds. But every guild on the server. Rise and fall rise and fall. Some would pull back some wouldn't In each case, the people you became friends with are gone very soon. Sometimes they come back, but the guild isn't the same anymore.
The business model of this game is one of the biggest reasons for this. Also the fact that it's a game you play for 2 months and put it down and maybe come back later and play again. Well, for most that's the case. But regardless, this wrecks guilds. It was never this bad in Rift or WoW, or any other MMO
+1
This guy gets it.....The game was made for ME not us. The find a good guild is bull crap. In every non social mmo, people try to use this as an excuse !
I'm re-enjoying the game for now. But it's already getting old. One I have everything figured out with my class, it will get boring again.
Sure it sucked you couldn't do it all alone, but what is the point of a game if you can do everything solo? What's the point of multiplayer game if you simply have no need for other players.
Well ... multiplayer mean just that ... a lot of players at same time in game. Nothing more nothing less. It does not mean you MUST stay with them to FIGHT. You might just as well chat with them, create and sell things, .....
I guess LFG systems and other implemented made MMO games less "social". But if I look back in time when I was able to get into group play for some instance 2 times in 10/12 hours and later when I was able to join 10/12 times in 10/12 hours ... well I do not miss at all that "old good" times because they were not really so great.
I would not have any problem to play solo game like Skyrim IF ONLY quality would be of Wow, Swtor, ... But it is far, very far, from that. However I do like to play also group content, chat, sell created stuff, .... So far best for me in this area is SWTOR. One can solo whole game and max out all alts ... or can level up to max just enjoying group play. Only class quests are mondatory (and one of best parts from any game).
And about how "less social" have games become nowadays ... if one need to socialize should do that FAR from keyboard. Pick real life friends and go OUT of house, go to play some soccer or alike, talk and socialize with eye-to-eye contact, ... "Socializing" behind keyboard is more parody then truly socializing.
Eh? Mmorgs are meant to be multiplayer and social. You don't 'need' to socialise in games but it is one of the things that brought things to life and most people like to socialise in mmorgs. You yourself like to chat, that's socialising.
Modern mmorgs, starting with wow have moved away from this. I remember the old days and you didn't wait hours, you knew lots of people on you serer and guild and organised yourself, it wasn't instant, but back then we were not force fed instant gratification aka single player style gaming.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
The main issue with GW2 is that most of the general content is too easy. I usually play against stuff like 5-10 levels above me to spice things up. Of course, nobody is going to do that.
But, yeah, generally, the solution to not feeling alone in any game is join a guild. It doesn't make the game better, but the social aspect often isn't dictated by the game that much. I know guilds that have fun in horrible games just because they're all in it together.
Originally posted by Sk1ppeR Well its kind of stupid to start a MMO alone in the first place.
Why is it stupid? I don't see what's stupid about trying to find people to play with while in the game, it's quite natural.
I agree, NagelRitter. I start games alone because no one I know plays mmorpgs. It would be nice if they did, but that's not the reality. I have no problem meeting people I like to play with and joining guilds.
Just because you choose to be unsocial why blame it on the game?
I've yet to encounter any system using a chat box that was "asocial".
But there seems to be tons of people waiting for the other guy to say something.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I've explained in fairly great detail precisely why this game seems to present problems in this regard where others do not. Others have as well. I will repeat my own examples:
- Even in life, we usually make connections by being "put into boxes." Rarely do we make friends after seeing a person once. Rather, we make friends at work because we are required to be their daily. We make friends at a social spot because we go there on some regular basis. We make friends at a restaurant we eat at every day for lunch. Etc. There are exceptions, but they are just that. In the same way, in MMOs, we get to know people because the game design almost forces us to do certain things in certain places at certain times. In attempting to give players the ability to do whatever they would like whenever they would like to, GW2 has also in a way robbed them of the opportunity to make connections in this very natural way. The person I see doing a dynamic event in Queensdale today may be doing something else entirely different tomorrow. It's hard to see people with any consistency so as to develop connections with them.
These are just a few examples. I could continue, but I hope that this helps to illustrate the problems many of us have with making connections in this game.
Let me just say that I fully understand your point, and its hard for anyone to deny totally that play GW2 can be a lonely experience (most are just pointing out that any MMO can be equally lonely, which is true, but not addressing the problem). But to your point about how we usually make friends (because of consistency in encountering them as a part of our social schedules), I'll just pose the question: even to the extent that this is true - should it be?
Shouldn't we be going out of our way a little bit more to establish relationships with other people? Attempt to meaningfully engage someone we encounter the first time we meet them? I know it sounds a bit idealistic, and most people probably wouldn't see any immediate reason to do so - they may be right a lot of the time even - but is that the best we should settle for, really?
I'm not saying it speaks well or ill of the design of GW2 that it is the way it is - but I wonder how much we should be letting ourselves be pushed this way or that by societal forces, and our lives so determined by them - or when gaming, their equivalent, 'social' mechanics. You fault the system, and the system may well be inefficient for what it is supposed to do, but why would you want yourself or anyone to be *more* attached to the system in the firstplace? Why not fault those others, and take responsibility yourself, to a reasonable degree, for the breakdown of relations, then do something about it?
If it's not worth that kind of effort - were the sorts of relations you've been expecting to find really worth having?
This combined with the lack of trinity are the biggest reasons i no longer play GW2.
No matter how many people i saw, It felt really lonely, and no one ever said a word in PvE.
I did meet plenty of people doing WvWvW, little guilds that formed just playing together there and such, was always more fun then the rest of the game combined, but WvWvW just grew boring eventually, never tried it after they started patching new things into it though, might have to check it out sometime, It's free afterall.
Last night, when my guild was having a little PvE Champion farming night, we were all in TS3 and chatting it up... that could be a part of the perceived problem. The combat really doesn't allow you to type while fighting, and a lot of people use voice comms.
Most people on the spectrum of perceived hardcore will use Voice Coms, those on the more casual spectrum will not but the catch is you really don't want to group with them in the first place.
I'm sorry to break this down to you, but In this age of social interactivity Guilds becomes the foundation for most grouping and social interaction. Make a game that forced grouping, and had downtime in between fight like people say they want and the game would barely stay afloat. And even if it did stay it would be small and guilds would still be the defacto socializing and community aspect.
Random Forum Poster: I want an MMO that is different, original and fun.
Me: So you want something like EQN
Them: Nah dude, I want a Holy Trinity, Tab Target combat, Instanced Raiding, and Rigid classes.
Never felt so alone in a MMO before and yet there are so many players running around me. Sometimes we are even working together, but no one cares to notice anyone around em. I know the pain of having to wait for a group to show up so you can do some dungeon or group quest or a very hard mob. But at least that way you met other players, you interacted with em. If the group was good you'd add em to your friend list and you'd whisper em to do more stuff together. That's how you made new friends online, that's how MMO games were fun.
Sure it sucked you couldn't do it all alone, but what is the point of a game if you can do everything solo? What's the point of multiplayer game if you simply have no need for other players.
I'd much rather put up with the fact that I can't do everything by myself in an mmo so I can meet new people and have social aspect of MMO, rather than being able to solo everything and feel so alone in a multiplayer game.
And that's the main reason why I stopped playing the game. I just felt so disconnected from everyone else. We were all running around doing our own thing, never bothering to say more than a few words (actually, few words out of someone in GW2 is quite a lot).
I'm not attacking the game, it's not bad for what it is, but it's far from Massive Multiplayer, hack, it's not even multiplayer without massive. What do you guys think? Is this the sad and dark future for MMOs? All solo flight, no social interaction, no need for anyone? Even think that's why there is no holy trinity in GW2 in from of tanks, healers and pure DPS - that would actually bring in the need for interaction.
Are the good old days over? I returned to WoW for 10 days and even it seems lonelier with it's random PUG thing, but still way more social than GW2.
you could join a .........................................................guild.
And WOW social???
WOW= "what can you do for ME? can you help ME reaching MY goals? if yes, I might let you onboard in my group as long as you are willing to play according to MY rules, MY schedule, if not----> G T F O"
Wouldn't call that social.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
- Most of the "group content" is build around large, zergy groups in which it is very difficult to distinguish individual players' contributions. If I do a 4 man heroic quest with you in TOR, I may recognize you as a good player and try to keep in contact with you. If I do a dynamic event with you in GW2, I very likely have no idea you even exist.
Aren't heroic quest in TOR instances?
No, there are Herioc areas scattered around all the planets 6+ on each Planet that require a minimum of 2 or 4 to complete, you just walk straight in and do the missions that are available for them. All the mobs are elite in those areas with some Champion bosses. Players group up all the time for these as they give great xp and rewards.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Stay away from more archaic MMOs like WoW then where the entire leveling process is solo speed leveling until you're forced to group to proceed through the single lane highway called end game raiding then... it'll drive you nuts.
wow became/remained giant because of its social aspects, and this is most stupid comment about wow i ever heard, heck wow its easy, wow is that and that, but it was always known about its social aspect, and that most themepark players stay in wow because they have friends there, all of my expierence in wow was not because iwas first to ding lvl cap, first to wear that epic armor, or be richest guy on the server, one of most famous person on realm, heck i was all of those in one or another expansion/vanila, best part was sharing that with others, others i met in game, achieving all those things with other people, it was blast
i havent made any friends in gaming since i quit wow, so either gaming is so unsocial when its all about " social " facebook bullshit and ecetra , or wow is just different and far superior in that aspect, and no i havent played wow for over 2 years
Maybe it did when it first came out all those years ago... but how is it now? How's the whole "social aspect" for a new player who jumps in and starts leveling up? Aside from a fairly hostile chat, it's a solo experience. Then you get to max level, find yourself forced to group to proceed and either you find a good guild and that social aspect unveils itself... or you don't. Vanilla was great for the social aspect, but let's be honest... that died a long time ago. A new player these days find WoW a terribly lonely place, even worse because you have to compete with those speed levelers that will tag all the mobs they can and simply don't give a crap about your or your experience, so long as they get another alt to max.
You have literally no idea what your talking about.
I know personally four people who play WoW, who'd never touch any other MMOs because there simply not interested in the genre. WoW brings in people who wouldn't normally consider MMOs, as well as those who do and like the overall package, and for the most part it keeps them there. The one thing I hear time and time again is that people stay for the, 'friends', they make.
That may hurt your, 'hipster', preconceptions and people complain about the community of WoW, but the sheer volume of people playing means your bound to find some you like. You seem to focusing on, 'speed levelers', as a convenient way to showcase a GW2 strength while covering up a inherent weakness socially for the, 'biggest zerg wins', playstyle. Social interactions aren't built on, 'mob tagging', or, 'rezzing', their built on working together on something you can't achieve alone. You don't even need to communicate with anyone in GW2, just follow the herd.
I've quit the game maybe five times, most recently in Pandaria and yes the LFG and LFG have made the old social interactions more difficult but I've always found a new group of people to play with, because at is core WoW is a game built for that. GW2 in 8 months I spoke to maybe a few people, and while I like the game, it's something that doesn't draw you in or give you a reason to invest in others.
You may have found a great guild and that's good for you but I feel that in the three guilds I am in, (that idea itself is just nonsensical), are filled with IRL friends or people just hovering members up for prestige points or whatever their called.
Honestly though the real reason is the social aspect is missing because the game lacks something intangible to invest in or give you reason to work with others to achieve it, something WoW gives to a lot more people in spades.
Everquest 1 was probably the best MMO ever made simply because you practically were forced to group which led to making friends and sometimes even enemies .
Since EQ1 was the last true MMO no one has dared to make a group game since , most people want to solo then moan about being alone lol .
Sure dude ... I double dare you to play Lineage 2 without a group after level 85. Literally the who content is group only. Sure there are 1-2 solo zones but youll have to spent eternity in there to make a difference. To hell with your statement. If you really mean it you've never played a real MMO
I see a couple defenders of the game GW2 (who also love to play it) say it's our fault for being anti-social and not speaking to people.
To me, as a very social person, this is asinine.
I go out of my way to talk to people. I like meeting and talking to people. But a game like GW2 allows, no, PROMOTES players to ignore others....
Yes, there is group content. In later stages of the game, it is required. There is also "area group" content. You are running around fighting and a big boss pops out that requires more people. Except with the lack of trinity, you are mostly self sufficient, can still help others without grouping, and never have to speak.
People take that path of least resistance much of the time. Grouping isn't required for the easiest path, so why bother?
I have had more people ignore my group invitation then not. Or when they group with me for this one quest or this big boss, they are gone from the group as soon as it ends. I'm not helping them THIS SECOND, so why group?
I like games that ask you to form your own groups. To get to know people so you can see how they act and play. You form friends before getting to that end game stuff. Rather then hoping some guild will give you a chance to tryout, you know people before hand.
I'm not saying you can't group in GW2 or anything. I'm saying the game mechanics and the lack of trinity promote not grouping until end game.
God ... you are blaming everything on the lack of trinity as if it a woman's period, and you are the woman. Yes there is no hard defined trinity but in my reality (idk where your mind is around the multiverse) that only means that everyone is welcome to any group. Nobody is going to shut the door for you if u want to join the party because the only group requirement is full party of 5 man. Nobody cares if yu are a mesmer, guardian, warrior, ele or w/e. You just adjust to each other and tackle the challenges.
How is the trinity required for you to ask for party or Lord forbid, start your own.
Stop expecting the people carry you around.... take some initiative, lazy peple
Originally posted by Volkon Originally posted by GregorMcgregorTalking to people 101 GW2 style:Player 1: LFG Fractal lvl 16!Player 2: LFG Fractal level 21, come on we only need 2 more!Player 3: LFG Fractal 2, yes, 2! I only started playing yesterday *ding!*Player 1: Isn't RPing such fun in this game! /hangs'elf
Sorry, couldn't hear you over TeamSpeak, where most people are. Yeah... that guild thing and all that.
People forget (or don't seem to realize) that the combat style in GW2 is not something you can do while typing out a conversation. Voice comms are much easier, and most if not all servers have their own dedicated TS server available. (Well, by most, I mean I know JQ and DB do... haven't been on others.)
"People forget (or don't seem to realize) that the combat style in GW2 is not something you can do while typing out a conversation."
lol, by your own admission, the game by design does not promote a sense of community.
Originally posted by GregorMcgregorTalking to people 101 GW2 style:Player 1: LFG Fractal lvl 16!Player 2: LFG Fractal level 21, come on we only need 2 more!Player 3: LFG Fractal 2, yes, 2! I only started playing yesterday *ding!*Player 1: Isn't RPing such fun in this game! /hangs'elf
Sorry, couldn't hear you over TeamSpeak, where most people are. Yeah... that guild thing and all that.
People forget (or don't seem to realize) that the combat style in GW2 is not something you can do while typing out a conversation. Voice comms are much easier, and most if not all servers have their own dedicated TS server available. (Well, by most, I mean I know JQ and DB do... haven't been on others.)
"People forget (or don't seem to realize) that the combat style in GW2 is not something you can do while typing out a conversation."
lol, by your own admission, the game by design does not promote a sense of community.
I would urge you to read his post again. If you have the same wise opinion, read it again. Repeat until you understand that's not what he meant
Comments
Thanks for pointing this out about the game mechanics of GW2 .... I always thought you got away more loot running in a group of 5 then running solo . I'm really pissed finding out those guys letting on they were healing and helping me survive weren't doing anything but cutting into the amount of loot I was getting , Next time I see someone calling out group of 3 need 2 more ..all welcome I'm going to point out Swanea told me "Not to group until end game because of the lack of trinity promotes not grouping
Here is the thing,they removed the ROLE out of role playing and the community out of grouping,yet somehow they were bantering about how they were creating a better community game.
I guess truth be told,a developer can say whatever they want and a lot of the times,everyone buys into it the speech syndrome.
There are a lot of games masquerading as mmorpg's ,imo there was only ever one true fully fledged mmorpg and that was FFXI.There is an argument for say Eq1 but that is in the time before when graphics were really bad and MMOrpg's were not a trendy thing.
Blizzard was the first big player t ocash in on the DSL wave when millions of new gamer's hit this genre.So they created a stereotype about how this genre would be played.A LOT of soloing and a LOT of ignoring the main game to race to end game and instances.
Point is that it is a far cry to blame Arena.Net,just more very average developers copying that same trend.
You also have to remember the GREED factor,there is no way a MMO will hit it's maximum input if they do not cater to soloing.
So what a lot if not all developers are doing now,is create a game that caters to the most players,cut a lot of corners and just tell all the gamer's what they want to hear,almost like a presidential political speech full of propaganda."Come play our game,we LISTEN and we are making this game for you the players because we KNOW your complaints"you know all that kind of crap they like to feed us.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
lord of the rings online have built in voip...
I would have to disagree with you. The number of posts on this issue with GW2 number more than usual. I didn't see so many of these posts with TSW or even with the Final Fantasy 14 AAR beta. I certainly didn't see anywhere near this number when WoW first released. This seems to be one of the main complaints against GW2, and in my opinion, due to the number of people that complain of this issue, there must be some merit to this. Sure, the player bears some responsibility, but the mechanics of the game greatly hinder or help with the social aspects of the game's community.
What you call bashing, is someone pointing out a flaw that they have with the game. Why do you care if people are critical of the game? If you are happy with it, then go play it. Your experience is different from others. Maybe this play style suits you? Obviously there are a large number of people who have issues with certain aspects of the game and wish to discuss it. Is this not a discussion forum?
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
The problem with this reasoning is that it focuses on the game, rather than the players. The players are the constant here, across many games. I'm one of these players. I - and others - who have had no trouble making connections and finding socializations in other games have found it significantly more difficult in GW2.
I say this in particular as someone who wants to like the game and have fun in it. I think it's got many very good qualities to it, but at the end of the day the sense of "lonliness" that I get out of it really overshadows all of that. Again, I've had no trouble with the social aspects of other games, so how can it be reasonably claimed that somehow I (or others in similar situations) am really the problem?
I love the canned answer, Join a guild, talk to someone, we're all in Voice chat. Yeah, I did all that too. But see, the OP is right about one thing. The game is designed for "me" not "us" .
But anyway, Join a guild. OK here's how that worked. You start the game, and sooner or later you start getting guild invites. For the most part, you accept them and start checking out all the guilds and find the one you like best as your primary. You start getting to know the players, start socializing getting in with the people there. Signing into Raidcall every day, Running lots of dungeons...well, lots of CoF P-1 anyway. (Although I preferred HoTW more) Anyway, few weeks goes by, you notice you are short a member. "Hey, I haven't seen Uzamaki in a few days". "yeah, he said he's taking some time away...needs a break. Ahh, OK, Week or two goes by. "Hey, Where's Ganndolph?" "I dunno, hasn't been on for a while." "Ahh, hope everything's ok" Week or two goes by...."Havn't seen Nornman on" Lemme guess. He's burned out.
Well, this goes on and within a month or 2 the guild's "Core" is gone. But you stuck it out, so you get promoted to officer but now you have to recruit cuz it's thinning out a bit, so you go on a campaign and get some new blood. And the cycle repeats.....and repeats.......and repeats.....and repeats.....
My 1st guild didn't survive the 2nd cycle, 2nd guild didn't survive the 1st. The co GM was one of the ones to leave and the GM couldn't hold it together. The 3rd guild made it through 4 such cycles. That's when I noticed it wasn't just me and my guilds. But every guild on the server. Rise and fall rise and fall. Some would pull back some wouldn't In each case, the people you became friends with are gone very soon. Sometimes they come back, but the guild isn't the same anymore.
The business model of this game is one of the biggest reasons for this. Also the fact that it's a game you play for 2 months and put it down and maybe come back later and play again. Well, for most that's the case. But regardless, this wrecks guilds. It was never this bad in Rift or WoW, or any other MMO
Thing is.. what about the game is making it harder for you to find social groups? What exactly?
Because if it really is a problem with the game, then you should be able to point to a clear component of the game that causes this to happen. I've played a lot of MMOs, and honestly can't think of any that actually made it easier to meet people. Some games forced grouping more, but that never meant you'd actually make friends.
Honestly, in every game, your ability to meet new people has always came down to your own social skills. Regardless of the game, if you never talk to people, never try and do things with other people, never make the effort yourself, the result is the same. You have a tough time finding people to group with. Your anonymous, and make no effort to change that.
GW2 isn't much different. It has a lot of content that needs to be done as a group. It has multiple methods of play, that are made easier by doing it with others. And it has multiple methods of saving contacts / staying in touch with people. I can honestly say, that to this day, I have zero problems meeting new people in the game. It's something that happens almost daily for me. Heck, I meet people so often in GW2 I often forget who's who on my contacts list. It all comes down to me actually talking to others, not expecting everyone to bend to what I want, being helpful to people, and just finding my own ways to enjoy the game. It's really fairly simple, and people usually have fun just tagging along.
I've explained in fairly great detail precisely why this game seems to present problems in this regard where others do not. Others have as well. I will repeat my own examples:
- In other games, the chat is constantly active, providing one way to get to know people. In GW2, the chat is almost always dead. This hasn't even really been disputed here. On the contrary, it's been acknowledged but brushed off as less important because of things like VoIP.
- Most of the "group content" is build around large, zergy groups in which it is very difficult to distinguish individual players' contributions. If I do a 4 man heroic quest with you in TOR, I may recognize you as a good player and try to keep in contact with you. If I do a dynamic event with you in GW2, I very likely have no idea you even exist.
- This problem is worse for PvP. In many MMOs, PvP communities are fairly tight knit and everyone comes to know everyone else to some degree. With a regionwide Heart of the Mists and no "down time" in between PvP matches, its almost impossible to really get to know anyone. You rarely run into the same people twice. Even someone like WoodenPotatoes has recently bemoaned the fact that this game has virtually no PvP community, and these are some of the reasons why.
- As a direct result of the previous 2 points, finding or being recruited into a guild simply doesn't happen in GW2 the way it does in other games. For example, in TOR I was recruited into guilds on the basis of their seeing my consistent performance over days and weeks. That opportunity simply does not exist in GW2. Could one simply apply to one of the random guilds advertising on a forum somewhere? Sure, but that would be a bit like marrying an arbitrary person without any consistent, personal experience with him/her to suggest that it would be a good idea.
- Even in life, we usually make connections by being "put into boxes." Rarely do we make friends after seeing a person once. Rather, we make friends at work because we are required to be their daily. We make friends at a social spot because we go there on some regular basis. We make friends at a restaurant we eat at every day for lunch. Etc. There are exceptions, but they are just that. In the same way, in MMOs, we get to know people because the game design almost forces us to do certain things in certain places at certain times. In attempting to give players the ability to do whatever they would like whenever they would like to, GW2 has also in a way robbed them of the opportunity to make connections in this very natural way. The person I see doing a dynamic event in Queensdale today may be doing something else entirely different tomorrow. It's hard to see people with any consistency so as to develop connections with them.
These are just a few examples. I could continue, but I hope that this helps to illustrate the problems many of us have with making connections in this game.
Of course you did.
This is the forum with most activity by far for the last year and a half.
This is the MMORPG released in the last 1-2 years with the most activity in markets these forums mostly reach (Europe and N. America).
You saw the most hype, the most praise, the most bashing and the most complains.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Aren't heroic quest in TOR instances?
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
+1
This guy gets it.....The game was made for ME not us. The find a good guild is bull crap. In every non social mmo, people try to use this as an excuse !
I'm re-enjoying the game for now. But it's already getting old. One I have everything figured out with my class, it will get boring again.
Well ... multiplayer mean just that ... a lot of players at same time in game. Nothing more nothing less. It does not mean you MUST stay with them to FIGHT. You might just as well chat with them, create and sell things, .....
I guess LFG systems and other implemented made MMO games less "social". But if I look back in time when I was able to get into group play for some instance 2 times in 10/12 hours and later when I was able to join 10/12 times in 10/12 hours ... well I do not miss at all that "old good" times because they were not really so great.
I would not have any problem to play solo game like Skyrim IF ONLY quality would be of Wow, Swtor, ... But it is far, very far, from that. However I do like to play also group content, chat, sell created stuff, .... So far best for me in this area is SWTOR. One can solo whole game and max out all alts ... or can level up to max just enjoying group play. Only class quests are mondatory (and one of best parts from any game).
And about how "less social" have games become nowadays ... if one need to socialize should do that FAR from keyboard. Pick real life friends and go OUT of house, go to play some soccer or alike, talk and socialize with eye-to-eye contact, ... "Socializing" behind keyboard is more parody then truly socializing.
Modern mmorgs, starting with wow have moved away from this. I remember the old days and you didn't wait hours, you knew lots of people on you serer and guild and organised yourself, it wasn't instant, but back then we were not force fed instant gratification aka single player style gaming.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I agree, NagelRitter. I start games alone because no one I know plays mmorpgs. It would be nice if they did, but that's not the reality. I have no problem meeting people I like to play with and joining guilds.
I've yet to encounter any system using a chat box that was "asocial".
But there seems to be tons of people waiting for the other guy to say something.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Let me just say that I fully understand your point, and its hard for anyone to deny totally that play GW2 can be a lonely experience (most are just pointing out that any MMO can be equally lonely, which is true, but not addressing the problem). But to your point about how we usually make friends (because of consistency in encountering them as a part of our social schedules), I'll just pose the question: even to the extent that this is true - should it be?
Shouldn't we be going out of our way a little bit more to establish relationships with other people? Attempt to meaningfully engage someone we encounter the first time we meet them? I know it sounds a bit idealistic, and most people probably wouldn't see any immediate reason to do so - they may be right a lot of the time even - but is that the best we should settle for, really?
I'm not saying it speaks well or ill of the design of GW2 that it is the way it is - but I wonder how much we should be letting ourselves be pushed this way or that by societal forces, and our lives so determined by them - or when gaming, their equivalent, 'social' mechanics. You fault the system, and the system may well be inefficient for what it is supposed to do, but why would you want yourself or anyone to be *more* attached to the system in the firstplace? Why not fault those others, and take responsibility yourself, to a reasonable degree, for the breakdown of relations, then do something about it?
If it's not worth that kind of effort - were the sorts of relations you've been expecting to find really worth having?
Most people on the spectrum of perceived hardcore will use Voice Coms, those on the more casual spectrum will not but the catch is you really don't want to group with them in the first place.
I'm sorry to break this down to you, but In this age of social interactivity Guilds becomes the foundation for most grouping and social interaction. Make a game that forced grouping, and had downtime in between fight like people say they want and the game would barely stay afloat. And even if it did stay it would be small and guilds would still be the defacto socializing and community aspect.
Random Forum Poster: I want an MMO that is different, original and fun.
Me: So you want something like EQN
Them: Nah dude, I want a Holy Trinity, Tab Target combat, Instanced Raiding, and Rigid classes.
Me: Double Facepalm.
you could join a .........................................................guild.
And WOW social???
WOW= "what can you do for ME? can you help ME reaching MY goals? if yes, I might let you onboard in my group as long as you are willing to play according to MY rules, MY schedule, if not----> G T F O"
Wouldn't call that social.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Never felt so alone...
Do I blend in with the snow? Son's of Svanir don't even glance my way.
Everyone just finished saving a town from destruction, yet nobody thanks me.
I harvest a carrot from a bush with another person, but he won't meet my eyes.
The world is so large yet I feel so small.
Never felt so alone.
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
No, there are Herioc areas scattered around all the planets 6+ on each Planet that require a minimum of 2 or 4 to complete, you just walk straight in and do the missions that are available for them. All the mobs are elite in those areas with some Champion bosses. Players group up all the time for these as they give great xp and rewards.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
You have literally no idea what your talking about.
I know personally four people who play WoW, who'd never touch any other MMOs because there simply not interested in the genre. WoW brings in people who wouldn't normally consider MMOs, as well as those who do and like the overall package, and for the most part it keeps them there. The one thing I hear time and time again is that people stay for the, 'friends', they make.
That may hurt your, 'hipster', preconceptions and people complain about the community of WoW, but the sheer volume of people playing means your bound to find some you like. You seem to focusing on, 'speed levelers', as a convenient way to showcase a GW2 strength while covering up a inherent weakness socially for the, 'biggest zerg wins', playstyle. Social interactions aren't built on, 'mob tagging', or, 'rezzing', their built on working together on something you can't achieve alone. You don't even need to communicate with anyone in GW2, just follow the herd.
I've quit the game maybe five times, most recently in Pandaria and yes the LFG and LFG have made the old social interactions more difficult but I've always found a new group of people to play with, because at is core WoW is a game built for that. GW2 in 8 months I spoke to maybe a few people, and while I like the game, it's something that doesn't draw you in or give you a reason to invest in others.
You may have found a great guild and that's good for you but I feel that in the three guilds I am in, (that idea itself is just nonsensical), are filled with IRL friends or people just hovering members up for prestige points or whatever their called.
Honestly though the real reason is the social aspect is missing because the game lacks something intangible to invest in or give you reason to work with others to achieve it, something WoW gives to a lot more people in spades.
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!
Sure dude ... I double dare you to play Lineage 2 without a group after level 85. Literally the who content is group only. Sure there are 1-2 solo zones but youll have to spent eternity in there to make a difference. To hell with your statement. If you really mean it you've never played a real MMO
God ... you are blaming everything on the lack of trinity as if it a woman's period, and you are the woman. Yes there is no hard defined trinity but in my reality (idk where your mind is around the multiverse) that only means that everyone is welcome to any group. Nobody is going to shut the door for you if u want to join the party because the only group requirement is full party of 5 man. Nobody cares if yu are a mesmer, guardian, warrior, ele or w/e. You just adjust to each other and tackle the challenges.
How is the trinity required for you to ask for party or Lord forbid, start your own.
Stop expecting the people carry you around.... take some initiative, lazy peple
Sorry, couldn't hear you over TeamSpeak, where most people are. Yeah... that guild thing and all that.
People forget (or don't seem to realize) that the combat style in GW2 is not something you can do while typing out a conversation. Voice comms are much easier, and most if not all servers have their own dedicated TS server available. (Well, by most, I mean I know JQ and DB do... haven't been on others.)
"People forget (or don't seem to realize) that the combat style in GW2 is not something you can do while typing out a conversation."
lol, by your own admission, the game by design does not promote a sense of community.
I would urge you to read his post again. If you have the same wise opinion, read it again. Repeat until you understand that's not what he meant