Class restrictions based on lore?? Why did you pick that??

will_wolf_rider

You do understand that you might be limiting your ability pool right?

Let's say humans can only play 5 classes..

Warrior: 1 movement 2 defence 1 utility (just a guess)

Blademaster: 1 movement 1 offence 1 defence 1 utility

Rogue: 2 offence 2 utility

Wizard: 2 movement 1 offence 1 defence

Tempest: 2 movement 1 offence 1 utility

Total abilities pool: 6 Movement, 5 Offence, 4 Defence, 5 Utility (..now that I've added it all up, it does seem kinda balanced..)

Anywho..

I'm getting a feeling that most of the people who voted for class restrictions are people who prefer to PVE. Like, you want to have that special ability that no other class has and it gives you a sense of purpose in the group/raid. 

I'm more of a PVPer and would like to be as versitile as possible. If they do end up restricting classes based on lore, as long as they add an option where I can pay extra money to make my own class, I'll be fine :P

 

 

 

 

 

strangiato2112

Originally posted by will_wolf_rider

You do understand that you might be limiting your ability pool right?

Let's say humans can only play 5 classes..

Warrior: 1 movement 2 defence 1 utility (just a guess)

Blademaster: 1 movement 1 offence 1 defence 1 utility

Rogue: 2 offence 2 utility

Wizard: 2 movement 1 offence 1 defence

Tempest: 2 movement 1 offence 1 utility

Total abilities pool: 6 Movement, 5 Offence, 4 Defence, 5 Utility (..now that I've added it all up, it does seem kinda balanced..)

Anywho..

I'm getting a feeling that most of the people who voted for class restrictions are people who prefer to PVE. Like, you want to have that special ability that no other class has and it gives you a sense of purpose in the group/raid. 

I'm more of a PVPer and would like to be as versitile as possible. If they do end up restricting classes based on lore, as long as they add an option where I can pay extra money to make my own class, I'll be fine :P

 

 

 

 

 

Its a lore/immersion thing.

 

One of the trickiest things for a dev to do is balance immersion vs convenience.  Trion, for example, is all about convenience and doesn't care much about its lore.  I prefer a big focus on lore and the game world.

azarhal

Originally posted by strangiato2112

I prefer a big focus on lore and the game world.

Me too! Especially in RPGs.

Squishydew

I really hate lore based class restrictions - Don't get me wrong, i love story and all that, i eat it up and and read every line of it.

But it REALLY pisses me off when i like a certain race, and i know it wont be optimal with the class I'm picking due to racial bonuses, or i simply CANT at all.

 

It just makes no sense, unless your character is going to singlehandedly rewrite lore. - Not to mention It'll pidgeonhole a lot of players into playing specific combinations, making characters seem way less Varied.

 

My mind was pretty blown when i saw the official poll results.

Thebrave246

PvP wasn't ever a HUGE deal in EQ games as much as PvE, I hope they do make it based on lore and immersion because it stays true to the games it came about from. I am all for some restrictions having to do with lore and immersion.

Miblet

We don't know much of the lore for EQNext yet so if there are restrictions we don't know what they will be.  Most people seem to be voting on the assumption the old lore applies when SOE seem to have thrown most of it out of the window.

Ogres might not be dimwitted in this game (different history and background, no invasion of the earthern plane and no curse, hell no Rallos Zek!!), Teir'dal are no more evil than other races (no Innoruuk twisting their very being, no Innoruuk!).  We don't know what it will be like.

Truth be told with how the lore is setting up it seems like there is no lore reason to restrict classes based on race, imagine how much culture and differences would have eroded under the lash of the Shissar.  I even liked the idea that your actions would determine class availability (like being evil?  no paladin class for you! etc.).

Laiquendi

See, having no class restrictions creates the Cookie Cutter issue.  Its the same issue that pops up when you take away racial abilities.  No matter how small , all these things ( Class Restriction , Racial Abilities ) give a dash of immersion to the game.  Take them away, and your back to cookie cutter.

And, whats the problem with cookie cutter races?  Thats an easy one, if every race was the same and could be any class, then you loose Every reason to care about a race, other then just looks.  And that takes a lot away from the whole reason we play MMORPGs in the first place.  To immerse your self in a fantasy world. 

Kiyoris

Originally posted by azarhal

Originally posted by strangiato2112

I prefer a big focus on lore and the game world.

Me too! Especially in RPGs.

Same.

The 2 most exciting things for me so far...are the lore...which is already really good so far.

The fact you can dig and use multiple layers of world.

Miblet

Originally posted by Laiquendi

See, having no class restrictions creates the Cookie Cutter issue.  Its the same issue that pops up when you take away racial abilities.  No matter how small , all these things ( Class Restriction , Racial Abilities ) give a dash of immersion to the game.  Take them away, and your back to cookie cutter.

And, whats the problem with cookie cutter races?  Thats an easy one, if every race was the same and could be any class, then you loose Every reason to care about a race, other then just looks.  And that takes a lot away from the whole reason we play MMORPGs in the first place.  To immerse your self in a fantasy world. 

The same occurs with racial differences, often more so.

EQ for example.  Until later expansions Ogres had a noticeable benefit if chosen as a warrior (far more than stats), thus most players wanted Ogre warriors and others were seen as inferior...because they were.

Similar things occured in WoW where racials benefited some classes a great deal more than others until they generally were nerfed into a more balanced level.  Thus certain races became part of the cookie cutter builds for certain classes.

I can agree with it giving some level of uniqueness if it fits with the lore of the game world but just restricting for the sake of it should never be a consideration.  For example I could understand why Ogres were not great mages in EQ, it made sense in the setting of the world they had created, however that may not be the case here in which case arbitrary restrictions would actually be more immersion breaking than not.

ignore_me

because I want races to actually mean something and not just be a skin.

McSire

The people who voted for restrictions are clearly idiotic and are living in the past. Players don't like being restricted, the more customization and the more ways for one to make themselves unique the better. Though if you look at option 4 and 2 and you combine them because they almost mean the same thing, it out votes the restrictions.

strangiato2112

Originally posted by McSire
The people who voted for restrictions are clearly idiotic and are living in the past. I personally don't like being restricted, the more customization and the more ways for one to make themselves unique the better. Though if you look at option 4 and 2 and you combine them because they almost mean the same thing, it out votes the restrictions.

Fixed that for you.  And if everyone can be anything than no one is unique.

ignore_me

Originally posted by McSire
The people who voted for restrictions are clearly idiotic and are living in the past. Players don't like being restricted, the more customization and the more ways for one to make themselves unique the better. Though if you look at option 4 and 2 and you combine them because they almost mean the same thing, it out votes the restrictions.

Don't get bent out of shape. That round table is a thermostat connected to nothing.

McSire

Originally posted by strangiato2112

Originally posted by McSire
The people who voted for restrictions are clearly idiotic and are living in the past. I personally don't like being restricted, the more customization and the more ways for one to make themselves unique the better. Though if you look at option 4 and 2 and you combine them because they almost mean the same thing, it out votes the restrictions.

Fixed that for you.  And if everyone can be anything than no one is unique.

It's not just me, it's the majority. Did you read the rest of the post?

Badaboom

I don't think there should be restrictions.    Allow everyone to be anything but add in penalties. 

strangiato2112

Originally posted by McSire

Originally posted by strangiato2112

Originally posted by McSire
The people who voted for restrictions are clearly idiotic and are living in the past. I personally don't like being restricted, the more customization and the more ways for one to make themselves unique the better. Though if you look at option 4 and 2 and you combine them because they almost mean the same thing, it out votes the restrictions.

Fixed that for you.  And if everyone can be anything than no one is unique.

It's not just me, it's the majority. Did you read the rest of the post?

Looks to me like 44.1% want complete  freedom, and more than half of those dont minf if a particular spec is badly gimped because of it.

However, 53.6% want restrictions.  So it would seem the majority want restrictions

TormDK

Me personally I would prefer restrictions.

But not on race, but rather on behaviour in game.

Laiquendi

Originally posted by Miblet

Originally posted by Laiquendi

See, having no class restrictions creates the Cookie Cutter issue.  Its the same issue that pops up when you take away racial abilities.  No matter how small , all these things ( Class Restriction , Racial Abilities ) give a dash of immersion to the game.  Take them away, and your back to cookie cutter.

And, whats the problem with cookie cutter races?  Thats an easy one, if every race was the same and could be any class, then you loose Every reason to care about a race, other then just looks.  And that takes a lot away from the whole reason we play MMORPGs in the first place.  To immerse your self in a fantasy world. 

The same occurs with racial differences, often more so.

EQ for example.  Until later expansions Ogres had a noticeable benefit if chosen as a warrior (far more than stats), thus most players wanted Ogre warriors and others were seen as inferior...because they were.

Similar things occured in WoW where racials benefited some classes a great deal more than others until they generally were nerfed into a more balanced level.  Thus certain races became part of the cookie cutter builds for certain classes.

I can agree with it giving some level of uniqueness if it fits with the lore of the game world but just restricting for the sake of it should never be a consideration.  For example I could understand why Ogres were not great mages in EQ, it made sense in the setting of the world they had created, however that may not be the case here in which case arbitrary restrictions would actually be more immersion breaking than not.

 

I have to disagree with you completely.  You have to think about this game, and how they are making it.  This game, more then any other,  can handle class restrictions and racial abilities.   Theres no reason at all to limit your tactics to Strength damage warriors only.  

I will use the old, yet functional example of a weaker warrior defeating a stronger warrior. 

Everyone knows, if at there Peak fitness in life, if Bruce Lee fought Mike Tyson, Bruce Lee would win.  And not by Strength. 

This applies to this game.  You can be the strongest warrior all day long, but someone else can defeat you with speed, or endurance , or defenses , or what ever.  

 

You need to stop limiting your imagination because of old school MMOs.  Think BIG, Think NEXT! 

HighMarshal

Originally posted by McSire

Originally posted by strangiato2112

Originally posted by McSire
The people who voted for restrictions are clearly idiotic and are living in the past. I personally don't like being restricted, the more customization and the more ways for one to make themselves unique the better. Though if you look at option 4 and 2 and you combine them because they almost mean the same thing, it out votes the restrictions.

Fixed that for you.  And if everyone can be anything than no one is unique.

It's not just me, it's the majority. Did you read the rest of the post?

Considering that 61% are either voting for lore restrictions or lore penalties, I don't think the word majority means what you think it means.

Myrdynn

I hate Halfling warriors, Barbarian rogues, Dwarf Mages, Dark Elf Paladins, etc

I think the race should fit the class.

 

McSire

Originally posted by strangiato2112

Originally posted by McSire

Originally posted by strangiato2112

Originally posted by McSire
The people who voted for restrictions are clearly idiotic and are living in the past. I personally don't like being restricted, the more customization and the more ways for one to make themselves unique the better. Though if you look at option 4 and 2 and you combine them because they almost mean the same thing, it out votes the restrictions.

Fixed that for you.  And if everyone can be anything than no one is unique.

It's not just me, it's the majority. Did you read the rest of the post?

Looks to me like 44.1% want complete  freedom, and more than half of those dont minf if a particular spec is badly gimped because of it.

However, 53.6% want restrictions.  So it would seem the majority want restrictions

Sure if you add in that other option. I'm not against restrictions I just think it's not the right path to take for an MMO. If you look at WoW just for example, they have restrictions on race/class combo but are slowly letting races be classes they usually couldn't be over the expansions. No one quits the game or doesn't play it because more customization is added, but people are let down when they cant have what they want. The people that are voting for restrictions might change their mind when the realize "oh wow why cant I play my favorite class with my  favorite race that's not fair".

dragonlee66

I can see it now

Hold on guys my ogre can't be cleric let me switch to my human for the cleric

there goes be what you want lol

Thane

uh jesus fucking christ.

 

first you start votes, then you complain about the results and blame everyone who did not wote your way to be a pveler....

seriously.... get real.

 

 

the world does not focus around you. neither do other people's opinions.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz89PN6K6GQ

 

jfyi little one, when people say they want class restrictions on races, that's neither pve nor pvp, that's RP kiddoe.

Martinmas

I picked

"I want to play any class with the race I choose, even if it means a penalty to some combinations"

because I think it is silly that some races can not be certain classes but on the other hand I still believe that certain races should still be better suited to some classes.

 

strangiato2112

Originally posted by McSire

The people that are voting for restrictions might change their mind when the realize "oh wow why cant I play my favorite class with my  favorite race that's not fair".

Nope.  You just dont understand the mentality.  many people are willing to live with this if it makes the game world better.  EQ1 would have been a worse game world with Ogre monks and high Elf beastlords.

 

Im all for a system that allows, for example, a non arcane inclined race like Halfling to eventually become Wizards after *substantial* work.  Not like a lousy EQ2 betrayal quest, but a lengthy, time consuming, multi-month ordeal where you have to earn Solusek Ro's favor and work with him to get arcane attunement.  So much work that when you saw one run by you would have to tell your guild "Holy shit!  An Assling Wizard!".

 

cybertrucker

Originally posted by dragonlee66

I can see it now

Hold on guys my ogre can't be cleric let me switch to my human for the cleric

there goes be what you want lol

Ogres couldn't be clerics  in EQ1 and that worked out just fine. They could however be shamans. Which could heal.

someone above posted they couldn't see barbarians as thieves. Have you ever heard of Conan the thief? 

 

I voted for race class restrictions. For lore reasons.  Which I'm glad. It's seems to be going largely that way..

As for this poll it was missing an option 

I voted  for race class restrictions and I enjoy both IF done well.