They have to run a sub to take advantage of the opening two months--The average time it takes to get to end game and become bored--otherwise they won't make enough money.
Nope...Wont even look at it until its f2p...My days of paying 50-100 bucks for a MMO are long gone...There are too many options out there to drop good money on every single game that comes out.
Originally posted by Theocritus Nope...Wont even look at it until its f2p...My days of paying 50-100 bucks for a MMO are long gone...There are too many options out there to drop good money on every single game that comes out.
Would love to know where these great F2P games are that you don't feel compromised in are located, cuz I haven't seen anything of great value out there. Think of it this way, the $15 a month you paid for WOW in 2003 for X amount of years is now $19 in 2013 when you factor in Net Present Value, so in reality you are getting a discount. Its like gas prices that never went up with inflation. Feel better? lol
Elders Scrolls Online is shaping up to be just like Star Wars the Old Republic. I'll wait until it goes free to play in a couple of months, don't want to get caught up in a greedy company's quick money grab again.
To be frank, Guild Wars 2 is so good as a B2P game that any future MMOG will have to be absolute Dynamite for me to even consider paying to play it. I spent years in WoW paying a sub to sit around in cities waiting on a queue. I'll never do anything like that again and I'll probably never play another P2P MMOG again.
It isn't about the money, it's about the choice. GW2 gives me a AAA game that I can 'choose' to spend money on if I want cosmetic goodies. A P2P game that isn't as good (IMHO few games ever have been as good as GW2) that requires me to pay them to even access? No, never again unless that game is astoundingly good.
So I voted no. From what I have seen the game doesn't look that good but I'd have tried it if it were B2P or F2P. But I'm not paying $60 to demo a mediocre MMOG.
Look dude, from what I can tell you still have to PAY for GW2 , so you payed 60 $ for GW2 and played it..Only diffrence you will not be subscribing to it
It's the same with ESO you pay 40-50 $, then consider if you wan't a subscription or not , there is ALWAYS a month included in the base game purchase.
So..If you ONLY play these games for a month there really is NO diffrence in price at all.
If you "ONLY"? Sorry to say, that is a huge difference and you can't just apply a rule to change it. What if you want to play MORE then 1 month? Is it the same price then?
The difference is, one game you can play forever with out a time limit if you so choose for the price of $60. The other you have a limit of 1 month, and can never play the game again unless you pay the sub. I don't see how you call that NO difference. o.o
Even if you do decide to really only play the game for 1 month there STILL is a difference. That difference is, I can pick up one of these games at any time and play it even after that month, and the other I can't. The difference is capability. The difference is as clear as day. The difference is not very hard to miss.
So how did you?
you can get back in a BTP original game anytime you like, but if you are serious about the game it will cost you almost as much as any subscription planned game.
Besides, todays games are not the beasts they use to be, not many are playing these games for a couple of years, for most it's a month or a couple of months at best.
Sure in my subscription game i have to fork up another 15$ to get back in, but I will ONLY do that if i'm really serious of getting back in the game ...
Both of these payment models wan't payment for their games, they will take it out in one way or another, the BTP could as easyly be the more expensive one if you look at it, It only feels more cheap since it doesn't have a subscription and the hassle that comes with it, like access to a credit card.
It's about preferences really ,nothing wrong with either model but the illusion that a BTP game is almost free or something is just ..well wrong
It looks like a well thought out game. I am concerned about breadth of content but I am not a 40 hour a week player anyway.
I do not know many people who played Oblivion or Skyrim and have said, "Man these games sucked". ESO is very much based on these games. It's gameplay looks exciting and the PVP will involve some down and dirty combat where your hands get a little sweaty because you're busy and focused on trying to stay alive. It's all voice acted and the graphics are top notch. It's lore is ingrained into my head and I am very well versed in it.
The speed gamer are people who play alot of games to completion. They get something new and play it ALOT and go through it. This is definately not me. I am a cross between a casual gamer and a raider. Sometimes I like to solo it and sometimes I like to operate in groups. I like to craft and to explore and ESO looks to have these things.
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
Originally posted by Keushpuppy I will gladly pay a sub for a ggod game. Plus it keeps riff raff out that cant or wont pay.
lol "it keeps riff raff out" more like it keeps all the smart people away. While all the suckers and blind fanboys play it. Do you not understand that its 60 dollars, plus 15 dollars a month, plus it has a in-game store for cosmetic items. They are definitely trying to milk idiots like you, it'll eventually go free to play with just a in-game shop, no 60 dollar entrance fee or 15 dollars a month and people like you will only be able to say "I played it first".
Originally posted by Keushpuppy I will gladly pay a sub for a ggod game. Plus it keeps riff raff out that cant or wont pay.
lol "it keeps riff raff out" more like it keeps all the smart people away. While all the suckers and blind fanboys play it. Do you not understand that its 60 dollars, plus 15 dollars a month, plus it has a in-game store for cosmetic items. They are definitely trying to milk idiots like you, it'll eventually go free to play with just a in-game shop, no 60 dollar entrance fee or 15 dollars a month and people like you will only be able to say "I played it first".
I do not take party to calling anyone riff raff and I find this post to be insulting and lashing out. Clearly no better then the post it quoted. Having excitement over a game title is not a bad thing. Wanting to get into the Beta, pre-ordering and taking the day off on it's release date. This is what I've done for a few titles I was excited about. Those games were about $40 to $50. Now they are mostly $60 unless there is a CE version which thus far, ESO does not have.
Most younger people are beholding to their parents for game purchases and many parents are not willing to allow their kid to pay a sub. A sub is not discriminating except to those who can't afford it. Some people that can afford a sub do not do them on principle alone. Some people just do not want to pay for their entertainment and if they have fun and don't pay, who is to say that's wrong? I like subs and will pay them. Traditionally, I've stuck with P2P games longer than F2P games but that doesn't make me an idiot nor am I after a 'I played it first' title or any title. I'm just looking to find 'that game' that holds my interest for the long haul and we all take each game and weigh it as it comes out for good or ill.
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
A sub does not guarantee that <> will not be playing the game.
A sub does not guarantee regular updates. Regular updates only started with CoH. In e.g. EQ1 updates were paid for.
What ESO needs is money. Money will pay for more content and provide Zenimax with profit obviously.
Zenimax have decided that having a sub is the best way ahead. And they are promising lots of content updates to try and get people to sub.
There is a huge flaw however. People do not need to sub all the time. People who leave (to play the next big thing) and come back some months later will get all the content that has come out since they left for free. People who sub can freeload!
Today, imo, a better approach would be:
- B2P for the basic game. Not Free to Buy.
- charge for every expansion
- charge a membership to play, maybe $25 for 6 months.
This is how the early mmos worked. Including content in the sub was something that only started in 2004 (with CoH / L2)
The result:
The game will never be F2P - a small "membership cost" will always be needed. And if its small and the core game is good that is unlikely to be a problem. The first 6 months say can be included in the core price of the game.
As Zenimax have expansions all planned out and they will all be wonderful and worth buying then people will buy them. People who unsub and come back many months later won't be able to freeload. People who like the game a lot - and would "subscribe" will buy them all and won't feel that they are being put upon. They will feel that they are getting something for their money.
People who would be put off buying a sub based game / don't want to face the prospect of paying every month will be much more likely to buy it. Big difference between $15 a month from month 2 and another $25 (say) for months 7-12.
*IF* I choose to play it, then Yes. I see no harm, or foul, or ill intent, or evil, from paying a MMO Publisher for a MMO. I am willing to pay the box price and a subscription for a good or better MMO like I have done many times in the past.
The real question in my mind is this:
*IS* TESO a good or better MMORPG? We don't know that yet honestly. It's still wrapped up in NDA legal stuff and hasn't been released.... and I no longer put much faith in Hype.... so ask me after release for a final answer.
Of all the MMOs coming out in the near future, this one screams b2p...... The thing I like about the ES series was I paid a one time fee and played as long as I like...Heck I'd still play Daggerfall if I had a PC that could run it......It still cracks me up how many people on this forum think a game is automatically better when they pay an extra 15 bucks a month for it.
Originally posted by Gaeluian Paying the $15 a month will keep the 'riff raff' away. I find that FTP players are the worst.
People in sub based games have been complaining about how xxx should go to game yyy for years and years.
If you really think a monthly sub will keep out "riff-raff" (whatever you mean by that) then you should be campaigning for a $30, $50 or even $100 a month sub. I suggest however that there is no evidence that ability to pay = "nice" player.
As I said people have had this complaint long before F2P reared its head.
A small "fee" is all you need to make people think twice. Enough to be meaningful but not enough to put people off trying the game. I suggested $25 for 6 months but whatever.
And if it is simply to cover the running costs then Zenimax can charge for any/all extra content. And as they have said they have such a lot of stuff ....
Launching as a sub based game and then trying to turn the game into a F2P / cash shop monster. Yuck.
Two years ago subs were making a comeback remember because SWTOR and TSW had decided to have a sub - the same type of articles people are writing today. Well we know how SWTOR and TSW have ended up. Games like Battlefield 3 however - with no sub but a premium membership - has been doing very well indeed.
way too many good quality f2p games out there to enjoy...yes i do spend some money in those games...but i dont go subs anymore as you dont get anything more than what f2p games offer with no subs.
I will not pay a sub for this.. Ask yourself, would you pay $60 AND $15 a month to play Skyrim? I wouldn't. For what? Instead of so many NPCs just to have them be real players? I love elder scrolls games and thought it would be cool to have it in mmo form... but on the flip side, I really don't see the ES combat mode working out in any sort of mass-pvp/raiding situation... 5 man dungeons fine, 1v1 or small 5v5 PVP, sure.. but anything larger than 5 I just don't see the ES mechanics working out well and I feel this will largely be a single player MMO much like GW2 is/was (played 3 characters to 80 without grouping and without much trouble, since dungeons blow in gw2)
Originally posted by Keushpuppy I will gladly pay a sub for a ggod game. Plus it keeps riff raff out that cant or wont pay.
lol "it keeps riff raff out" more like it keeps all the smart people away. While all the suckers and blind fanboys play it. Do you not understand that its 60 dollars, plus 15 dollars a month, plus it has a in-game store for cosmetic items. They are definitely trying to milk idiots like you, it'll eventually go free to play with just a in-game shop, no 60 dollar entrance fee or 15 dollars a month and people like you will only be able to say "I played it first".
We are well aware of the pricing, that's why we still want to play...lol
There is no cash shop, do some research before posting, thanks
since maybe wasn't an option I clicked yes/ Can't say if it's worth it yet or not no real info. But I will say if it had a f2p option Id be less likely to play it personally. I've found the games that actually have to work to keep $ coming in are a better all around products imho than some random pos that throws a digital gimmick up on its cash shop once in awhile and calls it a day.
If the game is not F2P, I don't buy it at launch anymore. I can wait a month or two for the reviews, player feedback and a possible price reduction on the box.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
A sub does not guarantee that <> will not be playing the game.
A sub does not guarantee regular updates. Regular updates only started with CoH. In e.g. EQ1 updates were paid for.
What ESO needs is money. Money will pay for more content and provide Zenimax with profit obviously.
Zenimax have decided that having a sub is the best way ahead. And they are promising lots of content updates to try and get people to sub.
There is a huge flaw however. People do not need to sub all the time. People who leave (to play the next big thing) and come back some months later will get all the content that has come out since they left for free. People who sub can freeload!
Today, imo, a better approach would be:
- B2P for the basic game. Not Free to Buy.
- charge for every expansion
- charge a membership to play, maybe $25 for 6 months.
This is how the early mmos worked. Including content in the sub was something that only started in 2004 (with CoH / L2)
The result:
The game will never be F2P - a small "membership cost" will always be needed. And if its small and the core game is good that is unlikely to be a problem. The first 6 months say can be included in the core price of the game.
As Zenimax have expansions all planned out and they will all be wonderful and worth buying then people will buy them. People who unsub and come back many months later won't be able to freeload. People who like the game a lot - and would "subscribe" will buy them all and won't feel that they are being put upon. They will feel that they are getting something for their money.
People who would be put off buying a sub based game / don't want to face the prospect of paying every month will be much more likely to buy it. Big difference between $15 a month from month 2 and another $25 (say) for months 7-12.
CONtent from a sub had been going on since 1999... to date AC still releases monthly content. I think p2p makes a lot more sense for a company planning on releasing a game that they expect to go the long haul.
Most FTP games are only looking for the quick buck before all interest in the game is gone.
Originally posted by Theocritus Of all the MMOs coming out in the near future, this one screams b2p...... The thing I like about the ES series was I paid a one time fee and played as long as I like...Heck I'd still play Daggerfall if I had a PC that could run it......It still cracks me up how many people on this forum think a game is automatically better when they pay an extra 15 bucks a month for it.
Lol... my son does, play daggerfall that is. Now free and you can download the DOS box that goes with it to play on a modern PC. He has played all the way through Arena onwards. Downloaded a truckfull of mods for Morrowind and played that again... looks awesome for an old game. Now he is on a heavily modded Skyrim, and it looks stunning.
Roll on ESO release; I have given up on EQnext. Disney characters and a cartoon world that's not worth exploring does nothing for me. More guild wars 2 than guild wars 2 by some of the info coming out. If the occulus rift was out, I'd be living in Tamriel.
Comments
the only reason i'm interested in ESO is because of the sub
and by sub i mean that all content is included - that means stuff in the shop will not be exclusive to the shop
and once the game goes FTP (which seems inevitable) i will stop playing
Game is a theme park isn't it?
They have to run a sub to take advantage of the opening two months--The average time it takes to get to end game and become bored--otherwise they won't make enough money.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
Would love to know where these great F2P games are that you don't feel compromised in are located, cuz I haven't seen anything of great value out there. Think of it this way, the $15 a month you paid for WOW in 2003 for X amount of years is now $19 in 2013 when you factor in Net Present Value, so in reality you are getting a discount. Its like gas prices that never went up with inflation. Feel better? lol
There Is Always Hope!
you can get back in a BTP original game anytime you like, but if you are serious about the game it will cost you almost as much as any subscription planned game.
Besides, todays games are not the beasts they use to be, not many are playing these games for a couple of years, for most it's a month or a couple of months at best.
Sure in my subscription game i have to fork up another 15$ to get back in, but I will ONLY do that if i'm really serious of getting back in the game ...
Both of these payment models wan't payment for their games, they will take it out in one way or another, the BTP could as easyly be the more expensive one if you look at it, It only feels more cheap since it doesn't have a subscription and the hassle that comes with it, like access to a credit card.
It's about preferences really ,nothing wrong with either model but the illusion that a BTP game is almost free or something is just ..well wrong
I voted Yes, P2P.
It looks like a well thought out game. I am concerned about breadth of content but I am not a 40 hour a week player anyway.
I do not know many people who played Oblivion or Skyrim and have said, "Man these games sucked". ESO is very much based on these games. It's gameplay looks exciting and the PVP will involve some down and dirty combat where your hands get a little sweaty because you're busy and focused on trying to stay alive. It's all voice acted and the graphics are top notch. It's lore is ingrained into my head and I am very well versed in it.
The speed gamer are people who play alot of games to completion. They get something new and play it ALOT and go through it. This is definately not me. I am a cross between a casual gamer and a raider. Sometimes I like to solo it and sometimes I like to operate in groups. I like to craft and to explore and ESO looks to have these things.
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
lol "it keeps riff raff out" more like it keeps all the smart people away. While all the suckers and blind fanboys play it. Do you not understand that its 60 dollars, plus 15 dollars a month, plus it has a in-game store for cosmetic items. They are definitely trying to milk idiots like you, it'll eventually go free to play with just a in-game shop, no 60 dollar entrance fee or 15 dollars a month and people like you will only be able to say "I played it first".
I do not take party to calling anyone riff raff and I find this post to be insulting and lashing out. Clearly no better then the post it quoted. Having excitement over a game title is not a bad thing. Wanting to get into the Beta, pre-ordering and taking the day off on it's release date. This is what I've done for a few titles I was excited about. Those games were about $40 to $50. Now they are mostly $60 unless there is a CE version which thus far, ESO does not have.
Most younger people are beholding to their parents for game purchases and many parents are not willing to allow their kid to pay a sub. A sub is not discriminating except to those who can't afford it. Some people that can afford a sub do not do them on principle alone. Some people just do not want to pay for their entertainment and if they have fun and don't pay, who is to say that's wrong? I like subs and will pay them. Traditionally, I've stuck with P2P games longer than F2P games but that doesn't make me an idiot nor am I after a 'I played it first' title or any title. I'm just looking to find 'that game' that holds my interest for the long haul and we all take each game and weigh it as it comes out for good or ill.
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
A sub does not guarantee a good game.
A sub does not guarantee that <> will not be playing the game.
A sub does not guarantee regular updates. Regular updates only started with CoH. In e.g. EQ1 updates were paid for.
What ESO needs is money. Money will pay for more content and provide Zenimax with profit obviously.
Zenimax have decided that having a sub is the best way ahead. And they are promising lots of content updates to try and get people to sub.
There is a huge flaw however. People do not need to sub all the time. People who leave (to play the next big thing) and come back some months later will get all the content that has come out since they left for free. People who sub can freeload!
Today, imo, a better approach would be:
- B2P for the basic game. Not Free to Buy.
- charge for every expansion
- charge a membership to play, maybe $25 for 6 months.
This is how the early mmos worked. Including content in the sub was something that only started in 2004 (with CoH / L2)
The result:
The game will never be F2P - a small "membership cost" will always be needed. And if its small and the core game is good that is unlikely to be a problem. The first 6 months say can be included in the core price of the game.
As Zenimax have expansions all planned out and they will all be wonderful and worth buying then people will buy them. People who unsub and come back many months later won't be able to freeload. People who like the game a lot - and would "subscribe" will buy them all and won't feel that they are being put upon. They will feel that they are getting something for their money.
People who would be put off buying a sub based game / don't want to face the prospect of paying every month will be much more likely to buy it. Big difference between $15 a month from month 2 and another $25 (say) for months 7-12.
"Still going to play ESO with a Sub?"
*IF* I choose to play it, then Yes. I see no harm, or foul, or ill intent, or evil, from paying a MMO Publisher for a MMO. I am willing to pay the box price and a subscription for a good or better MMO like I have done many times in the past.
The real question in my mind is this:
*IS* TESO a good or better MMORPG? We don't know that yet honestly. It's still wrapped up in NDA legal stuff and hasn't been released.... and I no longer put much faith in Hype.... so ask me after release for a final answer.People in sub based games have been complaining about how xxx should go to game yyy for years and years.
If you really think a monthly sub will keep out "riff-raff" (whatever you mean by that) then you should be campaigning for a $30, $50 or even $100 a month sub. I suggest however that there is no evidence that ability to pay = "nice" player.
As I said people have had this complaint long before F2P reared its head.
A small "fee" is all you need to make people think twice. Enough to be meaningful but not enough to put people off trying the game. I suggested $25 for 6 months but whatever.
And if it is simply to cover the running costs then Zenimax can charge for any/all extra content. And as they have said they have such a lot of stuff ....
Launching as a sub based game and then trying to turn the game into a F2P / cash shop monster. Yuck.
Two years ago subs were making a comeback remember because SWTOR and TSW had decided to have a sub - the same type of articles people are writing today. Well we know how SWTOR and TSW have ended up. Games like Battlefield 3 however - with no sub but a premium membership - has been doing very well indeed.
no
way too many good quality f2p games out there to enjoy...yes i do spend some money in those games...but i dont go subs anymore as you dont get anything more than what f2p games offer with no subs.
We are well aware of the pricing, that's why we still want to play...lol
There is no cash shop, do some research before posting, thanks
As a 15 year MMO veteran, I completely agree
No MMO community is perfect, but the F2P games have the worst communities by far
IMHO, sub is what can make this game to get much better for those who may take it serious.
In the we all know F2P doesn't exists.
If the game is not F2P, I don't buy it at launch anymore. I can wait a month or two for the reviews, player feedback and a possible price reduction on the box.
CONtent from a sub had been going on since 1999... to date AC still releases monthly content. I think p2p makes a lot more sense for a company planning on releasing a game that they expect to go the long haul.
Most FTP games are only looking for the quick buck before all interest in the game is gone.
Lol... my son does, play daggerfall that is. Now free and you can download the DOS box that goes with it to play on a modern PC. He has played all the way through Arena onwards. Downloaded a truckfull of mods for Morrowind and played that again... looks awesome for an old game. Now he is on a heavily modded Skyrim, and it looks stunning.
Roll on ESO release; I have given up on EQnext. Disney characters and a cartoon world that's not worth exploring does nothing for me. More guild wars 2 than guild wars 2 by some of the info coming out. If the occulus rift was out, I'd be living in Tamriel.