P2P and even B2P cannot and do not guarantee a lessening of those problems; just like it is incorrect to assume that P2P = quality.
Much like gameplay and quality are dependant on the devs and not the payment model, all those problems you mentioned can only be mitigated by the devs and a self-policing gaming community.
P2P and B2P ABSOLUTELY guarantee a lessening of these problems. As the devs and players police the community, offenders are not going to want to keep buying new accounts because it's too expensive. In free to play, these offenders can create an infinite amount of free accounts, allowing them with having nothing to lose except a character's progression. But even in that case, offenders will log in their "mule" accounts to offend anyways, staying anonymous and protecting their "main" account from getting banned, etc.
nah .. they just hack into existing accounts. Why do you think account hacking is so popular?
Plus, just by observation, i see more gold advertising in WOW (a sub-only game) than all the F2P games i play.
Any game that allows the world to create accounts for free is exposing their player base to numerous unwanted population issues:
Gold Spamming, global chat trolling, cyber bullying, multi-boxing, short-term friending and a large amount of EULA violations are just a few of the problems.
At minimum a game like EQ Next should charge for each account key. This would force players to be more wary of their behavior online. There is an actual cost to having your account banned, or your characters shunned due to behavior-related reputation issues. If you have to pay $50 or $60 per account most of the afore-mentioned problems would occur much less frequently. That would be a good thing.
P2P and even B2P cannot and do not guarantee a lessening of those problems; just like it is incorrect to assume that P2P = quality.
Much like gameplay and quality are dependant on the devs and not the payment model, all those problems you mentioned can only be mitigated by the devs and a self-policing gaming community.
P2P and B2P ABSOLUTELY guarantee a lessening of these problems. As the devs and players police the community, offenders are not going to want to keep buying new accounts because it's too expensive. In free to play, these offenders can create an infinite amount of free accounts, allowing them with having nothing to lose except a character's progression. But even in that case, offenders will log in their "mule" accounts to offend anyways, staying anonymous and protecting their "main" account from getting banned, etc.
WOW was/is riddled with gold farmers and spammers, global chat trolling, cyber bullying, multi-boxing, short-term friending and a large amount of EULA violations are just a few of the problems.
P2P and B2P CANNOT guarantee a lessening of these problems
Any game that allows the world to create accounts for free is exposing their player base to numerous unwanted population issues:
Gold Spamming, global chat trolling, cyber bullying, multi-boxing, short-term friending and a large amount of EULA violations are just a few of the problems.
At minimum a game like EQ Next should charge for each account key. This would force players to be more wary of their behavior online. There is an actual cost to having your account banned, or your characters shunned due to behavior-related reputation issues. If you have to pay $50 or $60 per account most of the afore-mentioned problems would occur much less frequently. That would be a good thing.
P2P and even B2P cannot and do not guarantee a lessening of those problems; just like it is incorrect to assume that P2P = quality.
Much like gameplay and quality are dependant on the devs and not the payment model, all those problems you mentioned can only be mitigated by the devs and a self-policing gaming community.
P2P and B2P ABSOLUTELY guarantee a lessening of these problems. As the devs and players police the community, offenders are not going to want to keep buying new accounts because it's too expensive. In free to play, these offenders can create an infinite amount of free accounts, allowing them with having nothing to lose except a character's progression. But even in that case, offenders will log in their "mule" accounts to offend anyways, staying anonymous and protecting their "main" account from getting banned, etc.
Maybe with the first and second generation MMOs but starting with the third (World of Warcraft and beyond) you're not gonna get any lessening because it's no longer a small community where everyone knows everyone and where people can and do put their own pleasure even above rational monetary spending.
WOW was/is riddled with gold farmers and spammers, global chat trolling, cyber bullying, multi-boxing, short-term friending and a large amount of EULA violations are just a few of the problems.
P2P and B2P CANNOT guarantee a lessening of these problems
From personal experience, when i compare WOW (sub-only) to Marvel Heroes, and STO (both f2p), there is a lot more gold spammer in WOW.
One can argue that wow is bigger and what-not, but fact is, if i want LESS gold spam, i would play those 2 f2p games instead of WOW.
Here we go, another thread on this very forum with a screenshot of FFXIV and the massive gold spam problem. Like I said in that thread, I guess that debunks the idea that subscriptions mean less gold spam, or mean they have a higher quality game and chat system.
In fact, i would argue that gold farmers and gold spamming is much WORSE in a sub-only game. Why? Most F2P games have cash shop for players to buy gold ANYWAY. Would you want to compete with the dev to sell gold? Of course not. You will lose every time.
Sub-only games are different. There is a demand for gold, but the devs are not providing it. Hence there is an opening for gold farmers/spammers. Plus, the players have already shown they are willing to put money in the game where most players in F2P games are free riding, and there is no money from them.
Any game that allows the world to create accounts for free is exposing their player base to numerous unwanted population issues:
Gold Spamming, global chat trolling, cyber bullying, multi-boxing, short-term friending and a large amount of EULA violations are just a few of the problems.
At minimum a game like EQ Next should charge for each account key. This would force players to be more wary of their behavior online. There is an actual cost to having your account banned, or your characters shunned due to behavior-related reputation issues. If you have to pay $50 or $60 per account most of the afore-mentioned problems would occur much less frequently. That would be a good thing.
All those things exist quite extensively in p2p games. Therefore it is simply any game that exists is exposing those players to those.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Any game that allows the world to create accounts for free is exposing their player base to numerous unwanted population issues:
Gold Spamming, global chat trolling, cyber bullying, multi-boxing, short-term friending and a large amount of EULA violations are just a few of the problems.
At minimum a game like EQ Next should charge for each account key. This would force players to be more wary of their behavior online. There is an actual cost to having your account banned, or your characters shunned due to behavior-related reputation issues. If you have to pay $50 or $60 per account most of the afore-mentioned problems would occur much less frequently. That would be a good thing.
All those things exist quite extensively in p2p games. Therefore it is simply any game that exists is exposing those players to those.
Yeah. Particularly gold spamming is less of a problem in F2P games because the devs will be selling gold themselves. No chinese farmer can compete with a gold production cost of zero.
Games that start as F2P are always of lower quality. Theres not a single one that can compare to a P2P.
Communities in F2P sucks. it brings in the really bad crowd of players.
F2P games locks you out of content, and if you want to use it, youll end up paying much more then a P2P game, for a game with less quality. Beeing forced to buy bagslots, vaultslots, characterslots, mounts, respecs, upgrade scrolls, safescrolls for said upgrade scrolls, upgrade gems, refining items, keys to unlock scamboxes that in the ned will cost you 500$ per month sucks. And you still wont be as strong as the guy that spends 1000$
While in a P2P i can get ALL that for a cost of 11$ per month. All it requires is skill.
F2P games have reward system that really blows, like VIP. Content after surtain lvl becomes so hard that your forced to buy VIP. The VIP cost is usually as igh as a normal sub, and you still have to pay for all the other stuff. And the more VIP level you have, the stronger you become, so the highest VIP wins the game.
Games that start as F2P are always of lower quality. Theres not a single one that can compare to a P2P.
Communities in F2P sucks. it brings in the really bad crowd of players.
F2P games locks you out of content, and if you want to use it, youll end up paying much more then a P2P game, for a game with less quality. Beeing forced to buy bagslots, vaultslots, characterslots, mounts, respecs, upgrade scrolls, safescrolls for said upgrade scrolls, upgrade gems, refining items, keys to unlock scamboxes that in the ned will cost you 500$ per month sucks. And you still wont be as strong as the guy that spends 1000$
While in a P2P i can get ALL that for a cost of 11$ per month. All it requires is skill.
F2P games have reward system that really blows, like VIP. Content after surtain lvl becomes so hard that your forced to buy VIP. The VIP cost is usually as igh as a normal sub, and you still have to pay for all the other stuff. And the more VIP level you have, the stronger you become, so the highest VIP wins the game.
Age of Wushu is arguably better quality than many p2p games.
There are not many p2p games that are $11/month either.
P2P games have collectors edition, paid beta access, paid beta rewards that transfer to the launched game, collectors editions for expansion packs, still have cash shops, loyalty rewards...
Sounds like the same thing to me.
And what business model would you say games like SwTor and TSW have where they launched as p2p but stated right from the beginning they had a plan to go f2p if needed. Obviously it was designed from the start to convert easily to f2p.
edit - sorry TSW is b2p. Which brings up another point as well. GW2 is of better quality than most p2p and it of course is not p2p.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Age of Wushu is arguably better quality than many p2p games.
There are not many p2p games that are $11/month either.
P2P games have collectors edition, paid beta access, paid beta rewards that transfer to the launched game, collectors editions for expansion packs, still have cash shops, loyalty rewards...
Sounds like the same thing to me.
And what business model would you say games like SwTor and TSW have where they launched as p2p but stated right from the beginning they had a plan to go f2p if needed. Obviously it was designed from the start to convert easily to f2p.
edit - sorry TSW is b2p. Which brings up another point as well. GW2 is of better quality than most p2p and it of course is not p2p.
I played Age of Wushu, and graphics are worse the most P2P, typical asian F2P graphics. Combat is bad spam. Content is worse, quests are typical F2P. UI is really bad. Game is grindy ike most F2P.
Collectors Editions doesnt affect anything ingame, most of the times its some physical items, like statue or soundtracks, it doesnt make you p2w.
Theres alot of mmos that have 11$ or even less, depending on how long you sub. Theres very few that have 15$.
Betas is not the released game, i have hardly seen any P2P beta that gives item for release either, thats F2P.
Paying for boxes still wont make up for a fragment of that you pay in a F2P to stay competative and on equal terms with everyone else.
GW2 is B2P not F2P. Not a fan of that either really. If there are items in the cash shop that looks better the anything i can get in the game, that sucks.
In P2P i win with my skills, in F2P i win with my wallet.
Age of Wushu is arguably better quality than many p2p games.
There are not many p2p games that are $11/month either.
P2P games have collectors edition, paid beta access, paid beta rewards that transfer to the launched game, collectors editions for expansion packs, still have cash shops, loyalty rewards...
Sounds like the same thing to me.
And what business model would you say games like SwTor and TSW have where they launched as p2p but stated right from the beginning they had a plan to go f2p if needed. Obviously it was designed from the start to convert easily to f2p.
edit - sorry TSW is b2p. Which brings up another point as well. GW2 is of better quality than most p2p and it of course is not p2p.
I played Age of Wushu, and graphics are worse the most P2P, typical asian F2P graphics. Combat is bad spam. Content is worse, quests are typical F2P. UI is really bad. Game is grindy ike most F2P.
Collectors Editions doesnt affect anything ingame, most of the times its some physical items, like statue or soundtracks, it doesnt make you p2w.
Theres alot of mmos that have 11$ or even less, depending on how long you sub. Theres very few that have 15$.
Betas is not the released game, i have hardly seen any P2P beta that gives item for release either, thats F2P.
Paying for boxes still wont make up for a fragment of that you pay in a F2P to stay competative and on equal terms with everyone else.
GW2 is B2P not F2P. Not a fan of that either really. If there are items in the cash shop that looks better the anything i can get in the game, that sucks.
In P2P i win with my skills, in F2P i win with my wallet.
What if I told you that in both cases it's your wallet winning for you? (unless you're some gaming prodigy you require weeks, months, years of game time to be competitive in some P2P games and only then can you talk about "winning" IE beating the best of the best with your accumulated skills and experience, in shitty F2P games you spend less time doing the same thing often for the same amount of money, most people just like to pretend one's worse than the other when in truth it's the same damn thing sugar coated in a different way).
What if I told you that in both cases it's your wallet winning for you? (unless you're some gaming prodigy you require weeks, months, years of game time to be competitive in some P2P games and only then can you talk about "winning" IE beating the best of the best with your accumulated skills and experience, in shitty F2P games you spend less time doing the same thing often for the same amount of money, most people just like to pretend one's worse than the other when in truth it's the same damn thing sugar coated in a different way).
I would tell you you are are wrong.
Everyone spends 11$ in a P2P, i play on equal terms as anyone else, everyone has acces to everything. Its only by my time, gathering gear and honing my skills in the game that i become stronger.
In F2P, it doesnt matter how much time or how good i am, i will still loose to the guy that spends 1000$
Age of Wushu is arguably better quality than many p2p games.
There are not many p2p games that are $11/month either.
P2P games have collectors edition, paid beta access, paid beta rewards that transfer to the launched game, collectors editions for expansion packs, still have cash shops, loyalty rewards...
Sounds like the same thing to me.
And what business model would you say games like SwTor and TSW have where they launched as p2p but stated right from the beginning they had a plan to go f2p if needed. Obviously it was designed from the start to convert easily to f2p.
edit - sorry TSW is b2p. Which brings up another point as well. GW2 is of better quality than most p2p and it of course is not p2p.
I played Age of Wushu, and graphics are worse the most P2P, typical asian F2P graphics. Combat is bad spam. Content is worse, quests are typical F2P. UI is really bad. Game is grindy ike most F2P. And other people disagree, so moot point
Collectors Editions doesnt affect anything ingame, most of the times its some physical items, like statue or soundtracks, it doesnt make you p2w. Most things in most f2p shops don't don't affect anything in game either, so moot point.
Theres alot of mmos that have 11$ or even less, depending on how long you sub. Theres very few that have 15$. I only know of 1. Which other ones?
Betas is not the released game, i have hardly seen any P2P beta that gives item for release either, thats F2P. I have, so moot point.
Paying for boxes still wont make up for a fragment of that you pay in a F2P to stay competative and on equal terms with everyone else. Most pay nothing, so false statement, especially since most in modern f2p are cosmetic and most of the games that do have stats are not high end stats
GW2 is B2P not F2P. Not a fan of that either really. If there are items in the cash shop that looks better the anything i can get in the game, that sucks. Either way it's not f2p.
In P2P i win with my skills, in F2P i win with my wallet.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Age of Wushu is arguably better quality than many p2p games.
There are not many p2p games that are $11/month either.
P2P games have collectors edition, paid beta access, paid beta rewards that transfer to the launched game, collectors editions for expansion packs, still have cash shops, loyalty rewards...
Sounds like the same thing to me.
And what business model would you say games like SwTor and TSW have where they launched as p2p but stated right from the beginning they had a plan to go f2p if needed. Obviously it was designed from the start to convert easily to f2p.
edit - sorry TSW is b2p. Which brings up another point as well. GW2 is of better quality than most p2p and it of course is not p2p.
I played Age of Wushu, and graphics are worse the most P2P, typical asian F2P graphics. Combat is bad spam. Content is worse, quests are typical F2P. UI is really bad. Game is grindy ike most F2P. And other people disagree, so moot point
Collectors Editions doesnt affect anything ingame, most of the times its some physical items, like statue or soundtracks, it doesnt make you p2w. Most things in most f2p shops don't don't affect anything in game either, so moot point.
Theres alot of mmos that have 11$ or even less, depending on how long you sub. Theres very few that have 15$. I only know of 1. Which other ones?
Betas is not the released game, i have hardly seen any P2P beta that gives item for release either, thats F2P. I have, so moot point.
Paying for boxes still wont make up for a fragment of that you pay in a F2P to stay competative and on equal terms with everyone else. Most pay nothing, so false statement, especially since most in modern f2p are cosmetic and most of the games that do have stats are not high end stats
GW2 is B2P not F2P. Not a fan of that either really. If there are items in the cash shop that looks better the anything i can get in the game, that sucks. Either way it's not f2p.
In P2P i win with my skills, in F2P i win with my wallet.
SO, your only arguments are that everything is moot points, points that you brought up yourself.
Most things in most F2P game very much affect things in game, to the point of destroying them becouse of unbalance. LoL is not a MMORPG, neither is Path of Exile.
And i said to stay competative, you wont ever be able to compete with the best in F2P by paying nothing.
Almost no F2P mmorpg are cometic only. Infact i cant think of any.
Age of Wushu is arguably better quality than many p2p games.
There are not many p2p games that are $11/month either.
P2P games have collectors edition, paid beta access, paid beta rewards that transfer to the launched game, collectors editions for expansion packs, still have cash shops, loyalty rewards...
Sounds like the same thing to me.
And what business model would you say games like SwTor and TSW have where they launched as p2p but stated right from the beginning they had a plan to go f2p if needed. Obviously it was designed from the start to convert easily to f2p.
edit - sorry TSW is b2p. Which brings up another point as well. GW2 is of better quality than most p2p and it of course is not p2p.
I played Age of Wushu, and graphics are worse the most P2P, typical asian F2P graphics. Combat is bad spam. Content is worse, quests are typical F2P. UI is really bad. Game is grindy ike most F2P. And other people disagree, so moot point
Collectors Editions doesnt affect anything ingame, most of the times its some physical items, like statue or soundtracks, it doesnt make you p2w. Most things in most f2p shops don't don't affect anything in game either, so moot point.
Theres alot of mmos that have 11$ or even less, depending on how long you sub. Theres very few that have 15$. I only know of 1. Which other ones?
Betas is not the released game, i have hardly seen any P2P beta that gives item for release either, thats F2P. I have, so moot point.
Paying for boxes still wont make up for a fragment of that you pay in a F2P to stay competative and on equal terms with everyone else. Most pay nothing, so false statement, especially since most in modern f2p are cosmetic and most of the games that do have stats are not high end stats
GW2 is B2P not F2P. Not a fan of that either really. If there are items in the cash shop that looks better the anything i can get in the game, that sucks. Either way it's not f2p.
In P2P i win with my skills, in F2P i win with my wallet.
SO, your only arguments are that everything is moot points, points that you brought up yourself.
Most things in most F2P game very much affect things in game, to the point of destroying them becouse of unbalance. LoL is not a MMORPG, neither is Path of Exile.
And i said to stay competative, you wont ever be able to compete with the best in F2P by paying nothing.
Almost no F2P mmorpg are cometic only. Infact i cant think of any.
yes my arguement is every issue you brought up is a moot point since it is either opinion, false, or exists in both p2p and f2p. Therefore the game being free had nothing to do with it.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
What if I told you that in both cases it's your wallet winning for you? (unless you're some gaming prodigy you require weeks, months, years of game time to be competitive in some P2P games and only then can you talk about "winning" IE beating the best of the best with your accumulated skills and experience, in shitty F2P games you spend less time doing the same thing often for the same amount of money, most people just like to pretend one's worse than the other when in truth it's the same damn thing sugar coated in a different way).
I would tell you you are are wrong.
Everyone spends 11$ in a P2P, i play on equal terms as anyone else, everyone has acces to everything. Its only by my time, gathering gear and honing my skills in the game that i become stronger.
In F2P, it doesnt matter how much time or how good i am, i will still loose to the guy that spends 1000$
And I would tell you you haven't actually played any F2P games then. You've played Pay to Win games which are the bastard children of F2P and P2P games.
A F2P game has cosmetic and non-power related items in its shop (IE it makes you look better or gets you to the end game faster but you never surpass other players in raw power).
Its a bit disgusting theres people that defend it. F2P ruins the meaning of MMORPGs, grouping up with friends and overcome hard content, finding that shiny item at the end of the tunnel.
What F2P does, it take all htat out, and richy rich just goes to the item shop and buys the item directly or an item that is much better.
That really destroys the game for those that have fought hard to get said item.
Or when your doing PvP, and you outplay the other player, but he still 2 shots you, for the sole reason of him beeing max VIP and have all +12 items, that really wants you to puke and feel that the genre has degenerated into something awful.
Its a bit disgusting theres people that defend it. F2P ruins the meaning of MMORPGs, grouping up with friends and overcome hard content, finding that shiny item at the end of the tunnel.
What F2P does, it take all htat out, and richy rich just goes to the item shop and buys the item directly or an item that is much better.
That really destroys the game for those that have fought hard to get said item.
Or when your doing PvP, and you outplay the other player, but he still 2 shots you, for the sole reason of him beeing max VIP and have all +12 items, that really wants you to puke and feel that the genre has degenerated into something awful.
"grouping up with friends and overcome hard content, finding that shiny item at the end of the tunnel."
Nope. We still do that in f2p games too.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
And I would tell you you haven't actually played any F2P games then. You've played Pay to Win games which are the bastard children of F2P and P2P games.
A F2P game has cosmetic and non-power related items in its shop (IE it makes you look better or gets you to the end game faster but you never surpass other players in raw power).
Which F2P mmorpgs? Vindictus has loads of P2W items, and Scamboxes.
And I would tell you you haven't actually played any F2P games then. You've played Pay to Win games which are the bastard children of F2P and P2P games.
A F2P game has cosmetic and non-power related items in its shop (IE it makes you look better or gets you to the end game faster but you never surpass other players in raw power).
Which F2P mmorpgs? Vindictus has loads of P2W items, and Scamboxes.
Really? Name one? ( I haven't played that in some time and a cursory look at their item shop doesn't show anything excluding cosmetics and grind bypassers)
1) I'm 47, I have a degree, and I work a minimum wage job. I can barely afford to eat, pay the bills, and put gas in my car so I can get to and from work. Maybe you haven't noticed, but not everyone is doing well in this economy. So I don't really have a choice, it's F2P or offline games (and I haven't bought a new game in years).
2) Yes there are lots of asshats in F2P games, they're in P2P games as well. I know this for a fact as the asshats in the games I play frequently bad mouth the game they're playing and talk about how great (insert name of current hot P2P game here) is. So the community isn't really any better (or worse for that matter) regardless of which pay format. Sure some of the F2P publisher communities are horrible, but there are bad P2P communities too. That you couldn't find good people to play with in a F2P game speaks more of lack of trying than truly bad community. I've been able to find good people to play with in every game I've played thus far, and some of those games certainly do have poor communities.
3) "In F2P games, you don't have access to all the content." I don't deny that there are games like that out there, I don't play them. They aren't worth my time, effort, and certainly not my money. Any game that basically requires a player to be a whale to get anywhere in the game is a crap game and rightly should be avoided. But here's the thing: not all F2P games go that route. I know it must be a shock to you but just like not all P2P games are alike, not all F2P games are alike. The MMO's that I play long term are games that give all player access to all content, regardless of how much (or how little) they pay in. Sure a player like myself has to work harder to get to end game, has to work harder to make gold to buy cash shop items from other players; but there are more of us than there is of players like you.
4) "F2P gamers are all kiddies using mommies/daddies credit card." The vast majority of players that I've interacted with are all 20+ yrs old and either in college or working. Yes I have met some underage players, but they're in the minority; at least in the games I've played the last few years.
Lastly let's compare real pricing, shall we?
FFXIV:ARR $69.99 (hard copy) $49.99 (download); 30 day sub $14.99 initial cost $84.98 ~ 64.98.
any F2P game: $60 ~ $80 (using where I stated that I could afford a $20 "investment" about every three months or so)
the player playing FFXIV has fun (at least I assume they do, they played for a year), progresses far, and makes lots of friends.
I have fun playing my F2P game, get pretty far in my char progression, and make lots of friends.
Only difference I see is overall cost; a difference of $169.87 (using the top end spending from both examples). Maybe that doesn't seem like a lot of money to you, but to someone like me; that's the difference between eating ramen everyday for every meal, and having a bit more variety when I eat.
Really? Name one? ( I haven't played that in some time and a cursory look at their item shop doesn't show anything excluding cosmetics and grind bypassers)
Increased droprate from instances, Extra buffs to make you stronger, enchantment packs, VIP, and thats not all of them.
Really? Name one? ( I haven't played that in some time and a cursory look at their item shop doesn't show anything excluding cosmetics and grind bypassers)
Increased droprate from instances, Extra buffs to make you stronger, enchantment packs, VIP, and thats not all of them.
The drop rate is a grind bypass (shocking, I know), extra buffs by what I know aren't more powerful than anything in the game, they just bypass the need to grind to acquire buff in general (basically think of it like using the "Show me the money" resource cheat in Starcraft 1, your units wouldn't be more powerful than anyone else's you just bypass the downtime of getting ze resources) and the VIP package just like any other is a grind bypass (world of tanks for example has premium accounts with +50% xp and credits, massive grind time cut but not a power advantage). If you want pay to win games try DDO (cannot progress or earn the best items around without investing cold hard cash) or Gunbound (used to be F2P but then they decided to add gold only items which are in some cases flat out better than anything else in-game).
Basically a P2W game sells power in any way shape or form (including access to new more powerful items), a F2P game sells what basically equates to a limited time "easy mode" with optional cosmetic stuff (skins for items, for your character, for pets, etc).
Edit: There's also a stat increase with the VIP package but at later levels this is miniscule by what I remember. People are more distressed by VIPs getting +1 run on everything in-game in terms of raid content or lobby games (daily in terms of daily instances and weekly for weekly ones).
Come on, thats so general. Its as much about getting people ower that threshold where they are ready to pay for your service as box sales are about getting money that first week of sales before everyone starts bad mouthing their product.
It is about being bold enough to let people play for free, having a good enough monetisation plan and gameplay to make in that money over a longer period.
There are so many great free to plays beating AAA titles right now if you want something fresh.
It is not free to play for the most part, rather free to try. And to get into metagaming, invest more then your time.
Comments
nah .. they just hack into existing accounts. Why do you think account hacking is so popular?
Plus, just by observation, i see more gold advertising in WOW (a sub-only game) than all the F2P games i play.
WOW was/is riddled with gold farmers and spammers, global chat trolling, cyber bullying, multi-boxing, short-term friending and a large amount of EULA violations are just a few of the problems.
P2P and B2P CANNOT guarantee a lessening of these problems
Maybe with the first and second generation MMOs but starting with the third (World of Warcraft and beyond) you're not gonna get any lessening because it's no longer a small community where everyone knows everyone and where people can and do put their own pleasure even above rational monetary spending.
From personal experience, when i compare WOW (sub-only) to Marvel Heroes, and STO (both f2p), there is a lot more gold spammer in WOW.
One can argue that wow is bigger and what-not, but fact is, if i want LESS gold spam, i would play those 2 f2p games instead of WOW.
Yeah.
In fact, i would argue that gold farmers and gold spamming is much WORSE in a sub-only game. Why? Most F2P games have cash shop for players to buy gold ANYWAY. Would you want to compete with the dev to sell gold? Of course not. You will lose every time.
Sub-only games are different. There is a demand for gold, but the devs are not providing it. Hence there is an opening for gold farmers/spammers. Plus, the players have already shown they are willing to put money in the game where most players in F2P games are free riding, and there is no money from them.
All those things exist quite extensively in p2p games. Therefore it is simply any game that exists is exposing those players to those.
Yeah. Particularly gold spamming is less of a problem in F2P games because the devs will be selling gold themselves. No chinese farmer can compete with a gold production cost of zero.
Games that start as F2P are always of lower quality. Theres not a single one that can compare to a P2P.
Communities in F2P sucks. it brings in the really bad crowd of players.
F2P games locks you out of content, and if you want to use it, youll end up paying much more then a P2P game, for a game with less quality. Beeing forced to buy bagslots, vaultslots, characterslots, mounts, respecs, upgrade scrolls, safescrolls for said upgrade scrolls, upgrade gems, refining items, keys to unlock scamboxes that in the ned will cost you 500$ per month sucks. And you still wont be as strong as the guy that spends 1000$
While in a P2P i can get ALL that for a cost of 11$ per month. All it requires is skill.
F2P games have reward system that really blows, like VIP. Content after surtain lvl becomes so hard that your forced to buy VIP. The VIP cost is usually as igh as a normal sub, and you still have to pay for all the other stuff. And the more VIP level you have, the stronger you become, so the highest VIP wins the game.
Age of Wushu is arguably better quality than many p2p games.
There are not many p2p games that are $11/month either.
P2P games have collectors edition, paid beta access, paid beta rewards that transfer to the launched game, collectors editions for expansion packs, still have cash shops, loyalty rewards...
Sounds like the same thing to me.
And what business model would you say games like SwTor and TSW have where they launched as p2p but stated right from the beginning they had a plan to go f2p if needed. Obviously it was designed from the start to convert easily to f2p.
edit - sorry TSW is b2p. Which brings up another point as well. GW2 is of better quality than most p2p and it of course is not p2p.
I played Age of Wushu, and graphics are worse the most P2P, typical asian F2P graphics. Combat is bad spam. Content is worse, quests are typical F2P. UI is really bad. Game is grindy ike most F2P.
Collectors Editions doesnt affect anything ingame, most of the times its some physical items, like statue or soundtracks, it doesnt make you p2w.
Theres alot of mmos that have 11$ or even less, depending on how long you sub. Theres very few that have 15$.
Betas is not the released game, i have hardly seen any P2P beta that gives item for release either, thats F2P.
Paying for boxes still wont make up for a fragment of that you pay in a F2P to stay competative and on equal terms with everyone else.
GW2 is B2P not F2P. Not a fan of that either really. If there are items in the cash shop that looks better the anything i can get in the game, that sucks.
In P2P i win with my skills, in F2P i win with my wallet.
What if I told you that in both cases it's your wallet winning for you? (unless you're some gaming prodigy you require weeks, months, years of game time to be competitive in some P2P games and only then can you talk about "winning" IE beating the best of the best with your accumulated skills and experience, in shitty F2P games you spend less time doing the same thing often for the same amount of money, most people just like to pretend one's worse than the other when in truth it's the same damn thing sugar coated in a different way).
I would tell you you are are wrong.
Everyone spends 11$ in a P2P, i play on equal terms as anyone else, everyone has acces to everything. Its only by my time, gathering gear and honing my skills in the game that i become stronger.
In F2P, it doesnt matter how much time or how good i am, i will still loose to the guy that spends 1000$
yes my arguement is every issue you brought up is a moot point since it is either opinion, false, or exists in both p2p and f2p. Therefore the game being free had nothing to do with it.
And I would tell you you haven't actually played any F2P games then. You've played Pay to Win games which are the bastard children of F2P and P2P games.
A F2P game has cosmetic and non-power related items in its shop (IE it makes you look better or gets you to the end game faster but you never surpass other players in raw power).
Its a bit disgusting theres people that defend it. F2P ruins the meaning of MMORPGs, grouping up with friends and overcome hard content, finding that shiny item at the end of the tunnel.
What F2P does, it take all htat out, and richy rich just goes to the item shop and buys the item directly or an item that is much better.
That really destroys the game for those that have fought hard to get said item.
Or when your doing PvP, and you outplay the other player, but he still 2 shots you, for the sole reason of him beeing max VIP and have all +12 items, that really wants you to puke and feel that the genre has degenerated into something awful.
"grouping up with friends and overcome hard content, finding that shiny item at the end of the tunnel."
Nope. We still do that in f2p games too.
Which F2P mmorpgs? Vindictus has loads of P2W items, and Scamboxes.
Only because you need to "beat" the others.
I play purely PvE and mostly solo. There is no "losing" .. and not even "the other guy". It is pure free fun. In fact, i just ignore the cash shop.
Really? Name one? ( I haven't played that in some time and a cursory look at their item shop doesn't show anything excluding cosmetics and grind bypassers)
1) I'm 47, I have a degree, and I work a minimum wage job. I can barely afford to eat, pay the bills, and put gas in my car so I can get to and from work. Maybe you haven't noticed, but not everyone is doing well in this economy. So I don't really have a choice, it's F2P or offline games (and I haven't bought a new game in years).
2) Yes there are lots of asshats in F2P games, they're in P2P games as well. I know this for a fact as the asshats in the games I play frequently bad mouth the game they're playing and talk about how great (insert name of current hot P2P game here) is. So the community isn't really any better (or worse for that matter) regardless of which pay format. Sure some of the F2P publisher communities are horrible, but there are bad P2P communities too. That you couldn't find good people to play with in a F2P game speaks more of lack of trying than truly bad community. I've been able to find good people to play with in every game I've played thus far, and some of those games certainly do have poor communities.
3) "In F2P games, you don't have access to all the content." I don't deny that there are games like that out there, I don't play them. They aren't worth my time, effort, and certainly not my money. Any game that basically requires a player to be a whale to get anywhere in the game is a crap game and rightly should be avoided. But here's the thing: not all F2P games go that route. I know it must be a shock to you but just like not all P2P games are alike, not all F2P games are alike. The MMO's that I play long term are games that give all player access to all content, regardless of how much (or how little) they pay in. Sure a player like myself has to work harder to get to end game, has to work harder to make gold to buy cash shop items from other players; but there are more of us than there is of players like you.
4) "F2P gamers are all kiddies using mommies/daddies credit card." The vast majority of players that I've interacted with are all 20+ yrs old and either in college or working. Yes I have met some underage players, but they're in the minority; at least in the games I've played the last few years.
Lastly let's compare real pricing, shall we?
FFXIV:ARR $69.99 (hard copy) $49.99 (download); 30 day sub $14.99 initial cost $84.98 ~ 64.98.
Any F2P game: initial cost $0
play for one year
FFXIV: $249.87 ~ $229.87 (Initial cost + 11 additional months sub)
any F2P game: $60 ~ $80 (using where I stated that I could afford a $20 "investment" about every three months or so)
the player playing FFXIV has fun (at least I assume they do, they played for a year
), progresses far, and makes lots of friends.
I have fun playing my F2P game, get pretty far in my char progression, and make lots of friends.
Only difference I see is overall cost; a difference of $169.87 (using the top end spending from both examples). Maybe that doesn't seem like a lot of money to you, but to someone like me; that's the difference between eating ramen everyday for every meal, and having a bit more variety when I eat.
Increased droprate from instances, Extra buffs to make you stronger, enchantment packs, VIP, and thats not all of them.
The drop rate is a grind bypass (shocking, I know), extra buffs by what I know aren't more powerful than anything in the game, they just bypass the need to grind to acquire buff in general (basically think of it like using the "Show me the money" resource cheat in Starcraft 1, your units wouldn't be more powerful than anyone else's you just bypass the downtime of getting ze resources) and the VIP package just like any other is a grind bypass (world of tanks for example has premium accounts with +50% xp and credits, massive grind time cut but not a power advantage). If you want pay to win games try DDO (cannot progress or earn the best items around without investing cold hard cash) or Gunbound (used to be F2P but then they decided to add gold only items which are in some cases flat out better than anything else in-game).
Basically a P2W game sells power in any way shape or form (including access to new more powerful items), a F2P game sells what basically equates to a limited time "easy mode" with optional cosmetic stuff (skins for items, for your character, for pets, etc).
Edit: There's also a stat increase with the VIP package but at later levels this is miniscule by what I remember. People are more distressed by VIPs getting +1 run on everything in-game in terms of raid content or lobby games (daily in terms of daily instances and weekly for weekly ones).
Come on, thats so general. Its as much about getting people ower that threshold where they are ready to pay for your service as box sales are about getting money that first week of sales before everyone starts bad mouthing their product.
It is about being bold enough to let people play for free, having a good enough monetisation plan and gameplay to make in that money over a longer period.
There are so many great free to plays beating AAA titles right now if you want something fresh.
It is not free to play for the most part, rather free to try. And to get into metagaming, invest more then your time.
Free to live, Free to play!