Yep, no doubt about it, cash shops continue to proliferate, but whether this is a boon or a bane to the player base or the games themselves remains debatable.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The whole myth of the whale keeping the game afloat is just stupid.
Look at the largest retail outlets in the world. Are any of them focused on getting 1 or 2 % of their customers to spend millions ?
No...all of them are about getting millions to spend a bit. That is how f2p does it. The "whale " is just an added bonus.
Hmm that is a totally different situation. A retail oufit normally doesn't offer their wares for free. Therefore every single person who buys something from is their customer.
If they did offer things free or a good chunk free, it might be a different story.
YOu can visit the store for free, but have to spend cash to buy anything. in a P2P you get acces to the whole collection, while in f2p you only get 1 item.
Thank you for the informative post, i am in no way an authority on the subject and should have stated that these are my personal opinions, i will go and read further about the points you brought up as i find them to be very interesting.
A quick caveat, whilst they are only my opinions they come from working with many addicts over the passed few years as a volunteer drugs and alcohol out reach worker and if theres one common denominator amongst all the addicts i have met is the frustration they feel over not being able to stop doing something they want to stop doing - hence why i feel they do not have what i have - the ability to choose and to make a reasoned choice.
I said this wasnt meant to be a bait post when i originally posted in this thread despite knowing i was l;ikely to get a post along the lines of the one i complained about so i'll gladly bow out as some people lack of empathy is enough to drive me to drink :-)
Hey man
What you've got is something that is getting more rare and rarer these day's, a "conscience"
mostly off topic, but whale is a term from gambling, used by casino's to mean a very rich sucker who is easily parted from there money without them realising it so they come back to be fleeced time and again (casino concierge etc..).
And i know this sounds like a bait post or a flame but i simply bring it up as i'm sure when Raph Koster used it he was using it in ththe same way, In so much as i felt he is as disgusted by the industries direction of late as some of the posters on this site are (myself included)
What do you have against those who would pay thousands of dollar for a virtual sword. It is their money, and it is a free market. No one holds a gun to their head.
In fact, that is also why i have little sympathy for whales in casinos. No one forces them to go into one.
There is a difference between what companies should have the right to do within a free market and RESPECTING what they do on a personal and proffesional level. I certainly don't respect any business which knowingly exploits human weakness to maximize thier proffits.....even while I recognize that such practices should be fully allowable in a free market system.
There is a difference between what companies should have the right to do within a free market and RESPECTING what they do on a personal and proffesional level. I certainly don't respect any business which knowingly exploits human weakness to maximize thier proffits.....even while I recognize that such practices should be fully allowable in a free market system.
F2P targets are people with bad spending habits. People that cant really afford it, but spends way to much money anyways.
I think laying all the blame on cash shops is kind of short sighted. There have been many more cases of people playing games (including MMOs) to the exclusion of anything else whether it be themselves or babies left in cars than there have been people spending too much money on a cash shop. I have friends who played themselves out of college, job, and family without spending a dime in a cash shop.
A lot of modern games are now designed to be monetized, but that does not make them any more or less dangerous to addictive personalities than the games that came out before cash shops. Remember Everquest got it's Ever-Crack moniker before any cash shop was seen in Norrath. An addictive game is an addictive game and a cash shop doesn't help, but to say it is 100% of the problem would be wrong.
I am not a huge fan of cash shops, but if I am having fun in a game and I feel like purchasing something I do and move on. Whether or not another person purchases $1k or $0 does not impact me at all. I do not really believe in p2w in an MMO since the game does not end, a game of chess as someone mentioned there is a winner as the game does had a defined end. Same goes for shooters and lobby games that have defined win/loss conditions there is a end, so a use can indeed pay to win. In a persistent MMO can their be a winner, if the game has no defined end conditions?
I think Nari's approach to games is a good healthy one, enjoy them as you would a good movie or a book, but once it is no longer fun, move on and find another game to play. Just remember that a guy that drops $1k down on a cash shop for that uber sword is no different than the guy that takes a 2 week vacation to play a video game for 20hours a day starting on launch day.
I think the notion that MMO cash shops are preying on the weak is pretty silly. It's just another form of entertainment and commerce. If people want to spend their money in an MMO cash shop by all means have at it. If they think they're geting value for their money that's all that matters and it doesn't matter if I agree or disagree. It's not what I personally do but they have a right to spend as they see fit with their own money.
Originally posted by oilthu mostly off topic, but whale is a term from gambling, used by casino's to mean a very rich sucker who is easily parted from there money without them realising it so they come back to be fleeced time and again (casino concierge etc..).And i know this sounds like a bait post or a flame but i simply bring it up as i'm sure when Raph Koster used it he was using it in ththe same way, In so much as i felt he is as disgusted by the industries direction of late as some of the posters on this site are (myself included)
Brilliant; I hadn't considered that.
Originally posted by DamonVile The whole myth of the whale keeping the game afloat is just stupid.Look at the largest retail outlets in the world. Are any of them focused on getting 1 or 2 % of their customers to spend millions ?No...all of them are about getting millions to spend a bit. That is how f2p does it. The "whale " is just an added bonus.
Interesting. Either it's as you say, and F2P wants everyone's money; or it's like the gambling industry where whales sponsor most of the fun. Both are bad imo.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
The whole myth of the whale keeping the game afloat is just stupid.
Look at the largest retail outlets in the world. Are any of them focused on getting 1 or 2 % of their customers to spend millions ?
No...all of them are about getting millions to spend a bit. That is how f2p does it. The "whale " is just an added bonus.
Hmm that is a totally different situation. A retail oufit normally doesn't offer their wares for free. Therefore every single person who buys something from is their customer.
If they did offer things free or a good chunk free, it might be a different story.
YOu can visit the store for free, but have to spend cash to buy anything. in a P2P you get acces to the whole collection, while in f2p you only get 1 item.
in retail I can't use anything for free. in f2p you get most of the game free.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I've come to accept that this is the way of the future. its not what I want - so I wont take part in any of it - but its sad none the less.
Its even beginning to bleed over into console gaming, which is also super depressing. Day one DLCs, uber weapons, various unlocks, everything and anything that they can think of, they are charging for.
I dont understand it, either. I am their target demo (or I thought I was) mid 20's to early 30s, disposable income, fair amount of free time - and yet I feel like this industry no longer represents what I want.
I've come to accept that this is the way of the future. its not what I want - so I wont take part in any of it - but its sad none the less.
Its even beginning to bleed over into console gaming, which is also super depressing. Day one DLCs, uber weapons, various unlocks, everything and anything that they can think of, they are charging for.
I dont understand it, either. I am their target demo (or I thought I was) mid 20's to early 30s, disposable income, fair amount of free time - and yet I feel like this industry no longer represents what I want.
It's because people are being sheeple.
I'm 50 now, I don't go to movie theater's anymore, I boycott them, why? because when I was a youngster and went to see a movie, they threw in a pink panther cartoon. The last movie I saw which was the Hobbit, I paid $60 for 2-tickets, 2-popcorns and 2-drinks. Now that's really steep I thought and the last draw was when the lights went down at 7:30 and I had to sit through 10min of television commercials.
What the hell is with that shit? $60 to watch tv commercials? fuck that, you can pay me to watch your damn commercials.
The entertainment industry as a whole are taking consumer's for a bunch of moron's whether it be games, movies, sports or what have you.
You've got a bunch of multi millionaire's who want more and more and more.
It will only get worse and it wont get better unless people stop buying the DLC or going to the Theater, Buying that $300 jersey etc. etc.
I'm 50 now, I don't go to movie theater's anymore, I boycott them, why? because when I was a youngster and went to see a movie, they threw in a pink panther cartoon. The last movie I saw which was the Hobbit, I paid $60 for 2-tickets, 2-popcorns and 2-drinks. Now that's really steep I thought and the last draw was when the lights went down at 7:30 and I had to sit through 10min of television commercials.
Well, each person value entertainment differently.
I took my kids to the Avengers last year and it was like $54 just for the tickets, and i thought it is worth every penny. I even took my wife back again (so i saw it twice).
And while what you think of as commercial, i think of as free previews for more movies.
This year i took my kids to see The Star Trek movie and also Wolverine. We will go again in nov to see Thor. It has been a lot of fun for us.
I'm 50 now, I don't go to movie theater's anymore, I boycott them, why? because when I was a youngster and went to see a movie, they threw in a pink panther cartoon. The last movie I saw which was the Hobbit, I paid $60 for 2-tickets, 2-popcorns and 2-drinks. Now that's really steep I thought and the last draw was when the lights went down at 7:30 and I had to sit through 10min of television commercials.
Well, each person value entertainment differently.
I took my kids to the Avengers last year and it was like $54 just for the tickets, and i thought it is worth every penny. I even took my wife back again (so i saw it twice).
And while what you think of as commercial, i think of as free previews for more movies.
This year i took my kids to see The Star Trek movie and also Wolverine. We will go again in nov to see Thor. It has been a lot of fun for us.
I'm not talking previews, I'm talking TV commercials aka Toyota, Honda, Coke... etc. etc.
What ever floats your boat. I wasted 10min of my life watching TV commercials in a theater when I could of been in the car with my wife getting a BJ.
I'd rather spread my cash around for the good of all then blindly giving it to the super rich.
I'm ok, I'm 50, own my home, have all the toys I've ever dreamed of. It's my kids generation I'm worried for, they're the ones getting fucked over.
My opinion Guild Wars 2 absolutely sucks. I understand a large community likes GW2, and that is okay, but my problem with Guild Wars 2 is the fact you have to pay for character customization changes, and the fact that they have not fixed the bugs with appearance on many races I have reported many months ago due to these reasons I dont care if GW2 is free the only items I have bought from their shop and plan to is the harvesting tools beyond that I don't care about the game and won't be buying anything else for the game due to the lack of armor fixes, and can't freely enjoy my game.
Same goes for many of the other F2P Games on the internet, I am tired of having to pay to customize my game-play and enjoy my game I will pay a flat monthly fee but having to dish out money constantly instead I will stick to games if I play them like.
Rift
Final Fantasy XIV
World OF Warcraft
DarkFall
EVE Online
These are all games that allow me to freely customize when I choose in the game without any restriction for a flat fee or for FREE.
Sure Game Companies might keep trying to charge a fee for customization of characters like Aion, Lineage 2, TSW, but I am done with these companies as soon as they started to restrict my freedom of play I quit all payments to them I don't play them anymore if others wan't to play then I am fine with it but I am done playing these games until they actually become Truly Free to play where I don't have to pay but I pay to support the game and development not because I feel like I have to pay to customize my character when I choose to.
You must be playing WoW in some pirate server...or just trolling bad....
In GW2 you can upgrade your character´s look by paying with in-game gold....
While in your beloved World of Warcraft you HAVE to pay a subscription PLUS Real Money to change your character´s appearance.
Sure ,but in MMO´s instead of candys they are selling win.
Which means pretty sad things.
Not sad for me. I am having free fun ... how is that sad?
You need to win someday ,only then you will understand what you were missing.
nah .. how do you know what i need or i don't need?
So far, i have free fun, and move on. I miss nothing. It is not like there is a lack of entertainment.
It doesn't matter what YOU need. We already know what you get. You play a game until you hit a paywall and then move to the next game. But that's where the best experiences these games have to offer are kept. So you play these games but always getting the 3rd rate experience. And while you are fine with that, to almost everyone else, it's a crappy way to play. Not making any real progression, not having any sense of investment in what should be a long term experience, not caring what you do when, how where or why. Overall it seems less than a generic experience, It seems absolutely mindless to me.
I'm 50 now, I don't go to movie theater's anymore, I boycott them, why? because when I was a youngster and went to see a movie, they threw in a pink panther cartoon. The last movie I saw which was the Hobbit, I paid $60 for 2-tickets, 2-popcorns and 2-drinks. Now that's really steep I thought and the last draw was when the lights went down at 7:30 and I had to sit through 10min of television commercials.
Well, each person value entertainment differently.
I took my kids to the Avengers last year and it was like $54 just for the tickets, and i thought it is worth every penny. I even took my wife back again (so i saw it twice).
And while what you think of as commercial, i think of as free previews for more movies.
This year i took my kids to see The Star Trek movie and also Wolverine. We will go again in nov to see Thor. It has been a lot of fun for us.
I'm not talking previews, I'm talking TV commercials aka Toyota, Honda, Coke... etc. etc.
What ever floats your boat. I wasted 10min of my life watching TV commercials in a theater when I could of been in the car with my wife getting a BJ.
I'd rather spread my cash around for the good of all then blindly giving it to the super rich.
I'm ok, I'm 50, own my home, have all the toys I've ever dreamed of. It's my kids generation I'm worried for, they're the ones getting fucked over.
Exactly. I don't have an IMAX screen at home. And it is great going to the movies.
TV commercials? You can't whip out your iphone and play angry birds?
It doesn't matter what YOU need. We already know what you get. You play a game until you hit a paywall and then move to the next game. But that's where the best experiences these games have to offer are kept. So you play these games but always getting the 3rd rate experience. And while you are fine with that, to almost everyone else, it's a crappy way to play. Not making any real progression, not having any sense of investment in what should be a long term experience, not caring what you do when, how where or why. Overall it seems less than a generic experience, It seems absolutely mindless to me.
LOl .. you seem to care about if i have fun or not. Don't worry, i am having loads of fun.
"Sense of investment"? I don't play games to "invest" and i certainly don't play for "long term experience".
I finished Marvel Heroes story missions. 30 hours of free fun. I may go back a little, and certainly when they have more content. Now tell me, where is the pay wall?
BTW, it is more fun than WOW (may be i am sick of WOW) for me, of course.
I'm 50 now, I don't go to movie theater's anymore, I boycott them, why? because when I was a youngster and went to see a movie, they threw in a pink panther cartoon. The last movie I saw which was the Hobbit, I paid $60 for 2-tickets, 2-popcorns and 2-drinks. Now that's really steep I thought and the last draw was when the lights went down at 7:30 and I had to sit through 10min of television commercials.
Well, each person value entertainment differently.
I took my kids to the Avengers last year and it was like $54 just for the tickets, and i thought it is worth every penny. I even took my wife back again (so i saw it twice).
And while what you think of as commercial, i think of as free previews for more movies.
This year i took my kids to see The Star Trek movie and also Wolverine. We will go again in nov to see Thor. It has been a lot of fun for us.
I'm not talking previews, I'm talking TV commercials aka Toyota, Honda, Coke... etc. etc.
What ever floats your boat. I wasted 10min of my life watching TV commercials in a theater when I could of been in the car with my wife getting a BJ.
I'd rather spread my cash around for the good of all then blindly giving it to the super rich.
I'm ok, I'm 50, own my home, have all the toys I've ever dreamed of. It's my kids generation I'm worried for, they're the ones getting fucked over.
Exactly. I don't have an IMAX screen at home. And it is great going to the movies.
TV commercials? You can't whip out your iphone and play angry birds?
It's cool that you enjoy going but your missing my point and it has nothing to do with playing angry birds to pass the time. My point is that I'm paying large to watch a movie. The bill board sais 7:30 showtime. 7:30 showtime comes and I'm watching Toyota Corolla. Life is short, the movie theater is wasting my time and disrespecting me. They are making money off of ripping me off of my time. Toyota and all the other advertiser's are paying the movie theater money for my time.
The movie theater crossed a line with me, they have not crossed your line and thats ok. Now the premise of my argument is that if the majority lets them get away with 10 minutes of tv commercials now, In 5 years it will probably be 20min of commercials, hell they will probably have commercial breaks in the middle of the movie----Stop yourself now from replying "that's cool... then I can go for a pee break and buy another $6 coke"
It all comes down to the fact that companies are always pushing the boundaries, trying to get more out of our wallets and its up to us to show them where those boundaries are. There is nothing wrong with making a respectable return but companies who gouge and take advantage of people to make obscene profits can suck my dick even if I can play for free.
The whole myth of the whale keeping the game afloat is just stupid.
Look at the largest retail outlets in the world. Are any of them focused on getting 1 or 2 % of their customers to spend millions ?
No...all of them are about getting millions to spend a bit. That is how f2p does it. The "whale " is just an added bonus.
Hmm that is a totally different situation. A retail oufit normally doesn't offer their wares for free. Therefore every single person who buys something from is their customer.
If they did offer things free or a good chunk free, it might be a different story.
YOu can visit the store for free, but have to spend cash to buy anything. in a P2P you get acces to the whole collection, while in f2p you only get 1 item.
in retail I can't use anything for free. in f2p you get most of the game free.
Nah f2p is more like going to a bar that gives you free drinks and then charges you $50 every time you need to use the bathroom.
Comments
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
YOu can visit the store for free, but have to spend cash to buy anything. in a P2P you get acces to the whole collection, while in f2p you only get 1 item.
Hey man
What you've got is something that is getting more rare and rarer these day's, a "conscience"
You have yourself a great day.
Karma
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
You need to win someday ,only then you will understand what you were missing.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
There is a difference between what companies should have the right to do within a free market and RESPECTING what they do on a personal and proffesional level. I certainly don't respect any business which knowingly exploits human weakness to maximize thier proffits.....even while I recognize that such practices should be fully allowable in a free market system.
F2P targets are people with bad spending habits. People that cant really afford it, but spends way to much money anyways.
Thats a really inhumane way to do business.
I think laying all the blame on cash shops is kind of short sighted. There have been many more cases of people playing games (including MMOs) to the exclusion of anything else whether it be themselves or babies left in cars than there have been people spending too much money on a cash shop. I have friends who played themselves out of college, job, and family without spending a dime in a cash shop.
A lot of modern games are now designed to be monetized, but that does not make them any more or less dangerous to addictive personalities than the games that came out before cash shops. Remember Everquest got it's Ever-Crack moniker before any cash shop was seen in Norrath. An addictive game is an addictive game and a cash shop doesn't help, but to say it is 100% of the problem would be wrong.
I am not a huge fan of cash shops, but if I am having fun in a game and I feel like purchasing something I do and move on. Whether or not another person purchases $1k or $0 does not impact me at all. I do not really believe in p2w in an MMO since the game does not end, a game of chess as someone mentioned there is a winner as the game does had a defined end. Same goes for shooters and lobby games that have defined win/loss conditions there is a end, so a use can indeed pay to win. In a persistent MMO can their be a winner, if the game has no defined end conditions?
I think Nari's approach to games is a good healthy one, enjoy them as you would a good movie or a book, but once it is no longer fun, move on and find another game to play. Just remember that a guy that drops $1k down on a cash shop for that uber sword is no different than the guy that takes a 2 week vacation to play a video game for 20hours a day starting on launch day.
Bests posts here:
Brilliant; I hadn't considered that.
Interesting. Either it's as you say, and F2P wants everyone's money; or it's like the gambling industry where whales sponsor most of the fun. Both are bad imo.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
in retail I can't use anything for free. in f2p you get most of the game free.
I've come to accept that this is the way of the future. its not what I want - so I wont take part in any of it - but its sad none the less.
Its even beginning to bleed over into console gaming, which is also super depressing. Day one DLCs, uber weapons, various unlocks, everything and anything that they can think of, they are charging for.
I dont understand it, either. I am their target demo (or I thought I was) mid 20's to early 30s, disposable income, fair amount of free time - and yet I feel like this industry no longer represents what I want.
If the purpose of him doing it is entertainment, and it's meeting his purpose than he is allready winning despite playing for free.
It's because people are being sheeple.
I'm 50 now, I don't go to movie theater's anymore, I boycott them, why? because when I was a youngster and went to see a movie, they threw in a pink panther cartoon. The last movie I saw which was the Hobbit, I paid $60 for 2-tickets, 2-popcorns and 2-drinks. Now that's really steep I thought and the last draw was when the lights went down at 7:30 and I had to sit through 10min of television commercials.
What the hell is with that shit? $60 to watch tv commercials? fuck that, you can pay me to watch your damn commercials.
The entertainment industry as a whole are taking consumer's for a bunch of moron's whether it be games, movies, sports or what have you.
You've got a bunch of multi millionaire's who want more and more and more.
It will only get worse and it wont get better unless people stop buying the DLC or going to the Theater, Buying that $300 jersey etc. etc.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
nah .. how do you know what i need or i don't need?
So far, i have free fun, and move on. I miss nothing. It is not like there is a lack of entertainment.
Yeah. That is my purpose. He just don't want to admit he can't know what others like, or dislike, although it is self-evident.
Well, each person value entertainment differently.
I took my kids to the Avengers last year and it was like $54 just for the tickets, and i thought it is worth every penny. I even took my wife back again (so i saw it twice).
And while what you think of as commercial, i think of as free previews for more movies.
This year i took my kids to see The Star Trek movie and also Wolverine. We will go again in nov to see Thor. It has been a lot of fun for us.
I'm not talking previews, I'm talking TV commercials aka Toyota, Honda, Coke... etc. etc.
What ever floats your boat. I wasted 10min of my life watching TV commercials in a theater when I could of been in the car with my wife getting a BJ.
I'd rather spread my cash around for the good of all then blindly giving it to the super rich.
I'm ok, I'm 50, own my home, have all the toys I've ever dreamed of. It's my kids generation I'm worried for, they're the ones getting fucked over.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
You must be playing WoW in some pirate server...or just trolling bad....
In GW2 you can upgrade your character´s look by paying with in-game gold....
While in your beloved World of Warcraft you HAVE to pay a subscription PLUS Real Money to change your character´s appearance.
Try better....
It doesn't matter what YOU need. We already know what you get. You play a game until you hit a paywall and then move to the next game. But that's where the best experiences these games have to offer are kept. So you play these games but always getting the 3rd rate experience. And while you are fine with that, to almost everyone else, it's a crappy way to play. Not making any real progression, not having any sense of investment in what should be a long term experience, not caring what you do when, how where or why. Overall it seems less than a generic experience, It seems absolutely mindless to me.
Exactly. I don't have an IMAX screen at home. And it is great going to the movies.
TV commercials? You can't whip out your iphone and play angry birds?
LOl .. you seem to care about if i have fun or not. Don't worry, i am having loads of fun.
"Sense of investment"? I don't play games to "invest" and i certainly don't play for "long term experience".
I finished Marvel Heroes story missions. 30 hours of free fun. I may go back a little, and certainly when they have more content. Now tell me, where is the pay wall?
BTW, it is more fun than WOW (may be i am sick of WOW) for me, of course.
You won't like Atlantica Online then
it's cash shop is both terrible (in terms of value for money) and a pay to win bonanza
what makes it even worse, your not even sure to actually get the shiney 'item' you paid money for
if a game has subs, it shouldn't need a cash shop too
I have enough issues with the taxman double dipping on my money as it is. I don't need games companies doing it too.
Tell it to WOW. The biggest sub game in the universe is getting a cash shop.
It's cool that you enjoy going but your missing my point and it has nothing to do with playing angry birds to pass the time. My point is that I'm paying large to watch a movie. The bill board sais 7:30 showtime. 7:30 showtime comes and I'm watching Toyota Corolla. Life is short, the movie theater is wasting my time and disrespecting me. They are making money off of ripping me off of my time. Toyota and all the other advertiser's are paying the movie theater money for my time.
The movie theater crossed a line with me, they have not crossed your line and thats ok. Now the premise of my argument is that if the majority lets them get away with 10 minutes of tv commercials now, In 5 years it will probably be 20min of commercials, hell they will probably have commercial breaks in the middle of the movie----Stop yourself now from replying "that's cool... then I can go for a pee break and buy another $6 coke"
It all comes down to the fact that companies are always pushing the boundaries, trying to get more out of our wallets and its up to us to show them where those boundaries are. There is nothing wrong with making a respectable return but companies who gouge and take advantage of people to make obscene profits can suck my dick even if I can play for free.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Nah f2p is more like going to a bar that gives you free drinks and then charges you $50 every time you need to use the bathroom.