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The reason I think FFXIV is going to fail: Staying power
Cymdai
Member UncommonPosts: 1,043
Before I begin writing this, I want to make sure everyone understands that this is solely my opinion, and based on my perception rather than facts. With that said, a few other things to note about me:
1) i'm a die-hard Final Fantasy fan, grew up playing it, and played FFXI for nearly 4 years, and FFXIV since P2 beta.
2) I've played dozens of MMORPGs, and even written reviews for this site and other sites, so I have seen my share of the genre.
3) I've currently got a level 49 BRD, 50 LTW, and 40 WVR/GSM, and I'm on the Ultros Server, and leader of the Veterans of Valkurm Free Company and Linkshell (DUNES)
Now I'll say that I had a great blast playing FFXIV. I've run nearly every dungeon, fought nearly every primal I can fight so far, maxed out a craft (which is wearing full HQ AF armor ^_^), nearly completed the main story quest, etc. To say "I've done a lot" is fair, as I am afforded the opportunity to play this game quite frequently (since I can play at work). I've made a few friends in game, set up some events, and tried to buiid and foster a positive community with my linkshell (which has around 100 dedicated members). I really enjoyed the game thus far, but I have numerous worries about the future.
Now, I hate doomsayers as much as anyone, but in my brief time in Eorzea, I've stumbled across several problems and concerns relating to the long-term of the game. After a very rocky start (#3102, #90000, #2002, etc) they did fix their servers and login problems, which was a great job by Square Enix. I was worried that if those problems persisted, that it would drive people away in droves. However, many new concerns have arisen, which I'm going to go into in-depth in the next few paragraphs.
Issue #1: Crafting is utterly useless
As I got my LTW to 50, I had a sense of relief. "Alright, I'm done with THAT part of the game..." I thought to myself. I figured with my newfound craft, I'd be able to start making money almost immediately in the game. There is just one small problem; there is no demand for hardly anything. Gear, which should be utilized to a degree by all classes, isn't necessary. Because of the incredible ease of the game, it hasn't been uncommon to see people wearing severely outdated gear throughout the game. I've seen level 40's rocking level 18 armor, and to no real penalty. Since there's no reason for combat classes to buy gear, there's no reason to craft combat gear. Furthermore, combat classes can get gear cheaper/free, and easier simply by doing quests and dungeons. Furthermore, due to Issue#2, people are leveling so fast and efficiently that there's no reason to EVER buy gear! In fact, the irony of crafting +gathering and +crafting gear is that the only people who buy it is fellow crafters and gatherers. Essentially, you're creating gear for crafting because it's mandatory, but crafting has no purpose other than to build more crafting gear...and, of course, materia melding. I basically spent all my gil buying crystals and ingredients to level a craft which is now essentially worthless. Also, since no one needs to buy anything... there is no economy. Gil is essentially used to skilling up a craft, or repairing your end game gear. That's it. And once you lose it, it's 10x harder to make it back, because there is ample supply, and meager demand. This is probably related to the fact that...
Issue #2: Fates have rendered the game utterly pointless
Since fates are essentially just massive zerg fests that generate 10+k exp for roughly 1 minute of work, there's no reason not to just run fates. Dungeons are slower exp, questing is slower exp, killing mobs is slower exp. Because there's no reason to do anything other than Fates, people are hitting 50 at a ridiculous pace; I've seen multiple people with 2-3 jobs at level 50, and you have to consider that we're not even at the end of the first month. Now I don't know what kind of content patches SE has planned, but people have burned through all the content the game has to offer in 1 week because of the way you can level off of Fates. I would dare to say that, if the quests weren't mandatory for advancement and gil, people would totally ignore them. Because of the abuse of the fates...
Issue #3: Everyone has hit level 50, and as such, is picking up a craft
This further nullifies the usefulness of crafting, because everyone is a level 50 Disciple of War AND a level 50 Disciple of Land/Hand. There is no demand now, and there will be even less demand as people continue to level their 2nd job/craft. Think this is an exaggeration? Go look at the diremite camps, or the ornery karakul spawns; watch how many 50's are camping these mobs for mats. Look at the incredible oversaturation of goods on the AH, and the rock-bottom prices on nearly everything. Because leveling is so easy, once you hit 50, your options are essentially to ruin dungeons, or to level up another job craft. This wouldn't be so unmanageable, except that...
Issue #4: The duty finder has far too many DPS, and not enough tanks/healers to go around
While this one is 100% preventable for the player to deal with, because of the small party size, you're getting tanks and healers geared up SUPER fast, while many DPS don't even have but 1 relic item. As such, if you're solo queueing as a DPS, enjoy your 4 hour queue timer. While this can be alleviated by grouping with LS mates, if there are none on, you can be stuck waiting around for hours on end with nothing to do, sans for crafting/gathering. This problem could have been avoided by having a slower leveling pace, but the FATE system ruined the game's pacing entirely.
Issue #5: The game is entirely too easy in all aspects
Tradecraft leves that provide 140k exp in 1 craft? Fates that add 12k combat exp for 5 seconds of work? You can 1 v 3 mobs essentially the entirety of the game? There is legitimately no challenge for 99% of the game. Dungeons are a welcome change of pace, but for those out there who don't have 3-4 hours to queue up, that aspect of the game is all but absent for people. And because of this incredible ease of access, everyone is nearing end-game (at least on the Ultros server). With everyone at level 50 DoW/DoH/DoL, guess what that leaves people to do? More fate grinding (for company seals), maxing out additional crafts, and queueing for dungeons. Additionally, the end-game is so easy that Free Companies are legitimately selling clears and relic weapon acquisitions to the highest bidders (roughly 150k gil) Which leads to...
Issue #6: There simply isn't enough to do once you hit 50
And this problem is the most alarming. I'm not sure what sort of content SE plans to pump out every month, but with players completing the game in roughly 14 days, you have to believe that whatever they do release simply won't be large enough or at a fast enough pace to keep up with the player base. Using my own observations, as soon as new content is released, nearly everyone on the server will already be ready to advance through it. As it will likely be the only content introduced, people will probably burn through it in a week, tops, effectively leading to more waiting. This was my biggest fear pre-release, the philosophy of It's not about the journey, but the game starts at 50; 1-50 should take a long time. It's much easier to control content for a handful of players rather than all players. Because 1-50 is a cakewalk, new content is going to be in demand at a rapid pace.
Issue #7: The gil-sinks, gil-gains debate (which is covered by MMORPG.com already) and the gil-sellers
For anyone who played FFXI, you no doubt remember the dreaded gil-sellers. Well they're back, and with a vengeance. In fact, the problem with gil-sellers is so dominant that every time I go to town I have to add at least 2 new names to my blacklist. They spam RELENTLESSLY in the shout chat, literally once per second, every second, non-stop. Gilsellers are not only annoying, but they're also posting bogus links for unsuspecting cheaters to click on, which in turn is phishing people's account information and leading to hacked accounts. SE allowed this to happen in FFXI, and their lack of preparedness in FFXIV is already creating a rift in the community. A hardline approach needs to be taken; I shouldn't need to blacklist over 100 names in 14 days, and basic chat moderation would solve this problem. They're also probably booming in business, as it's nearly impossible to make gil once you've hit 50 and you've used up your quest rewards. Even worse, the gil-selling is so rampant and rapid, that if you do blacklist someone, there's a new person there to take their place within 5 minutes. It's as if SE can't ban them fast enough. Try and go to a main city without using the blacklist, and your chat log will be blacking out the sun with gil-seller spam.
Issue #8: The staying power is not present.
As I said, I'm an avid final fantasy fan. I love the world, the lore, the mobs, the characters, etc. I have a great community of people to play with. However, it's 14 days in, and we're nearly out of things to do. How can I justify subscribing month after month after month if there isn't anything new or exciting for me to do? I know that I am not alone in this feeling; peruse any of the online forums. People are concerned that they're going to stagnate at a rate faster than content is introduced.
I look at all these issues, and I probably sound like I'm hating on the game. I want to be perfectly clear that I am playing the game and loving it, but that these are serious fundamental flaws. I realize I didn't point out the good things about the game. It runs very smooth, it plays very polished, I haven't experienced hardly any bugs to date. Dungeons are entertaining and exciting, the world itself is awesome looking, and the crafting system is super cool.
However, I worry if the ease, the simplicity, the lack of depth and complexity related to both combat and the economy will lead to a loss of interest in players. I still have 16 days until I need to enter payment information... but I am only new becoming skeptical that I'll even continue to play beyond that. While this IS a good game, it simply isn't a long game, and it's in dire need of some challenge and timesink aspects, or even optional features. I DO realize that the golden saucer, PvP, housing, etc, are on the way... but if they are as simple as the base of the game has been, how long will those truly hold your interest anyway? A week? 2 weeks?
I'd like to read your opinions on this. Share your name, your levels, your server, etc, and let me know what you think. Do you believe FFXIV has the staying power of other MMO's? if so, why, and if not, why not?
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
Comments
Welcome to the new era of MMOS.
An era where everyone levels to max level in one week and other facets of gameplay, such as crafting, are near pointless. They are merely a footnote in game descriptions to fill up paragraph space and "content"
I preordered and was in Beta 4 and Early Access.
When people had hit 50 before Launch Day I knew there were problems.
After playing a little while and just looking at gear lists and who crafts what, and reading how quick dungeon progression was being run through, it wasn't hard to read the writing on the wall.
This game is well-done in nearly every way except for two.
One: It's too easy to do almost everything.
Two: The crafting system is pretty fun, but it's essentially useless.
Those two things convinced me to just give it up before the intro month was out. Back to the search for an MMO that doesn't treat me like a child. It was a solid effort for SE, but being spoon fed linear content just rubs me the wrong way.
I agree with most of what OP said. I am a 50 Drg and I see all the same things you do... I don't know how long I will last in a game like this. I hate where end game is all raiding. I'd craft but it's literally pointless. FCs doing speedruns and skipping entire dungeons straight to boss, etc.
I soloed my way to 50 except for dungeons, there is no reason to group (well and FATE farming). Game is very freaking easy. I've enjoyed my time up to 50, but I fear I will not last through my free trial. Honestly, for the 35$ i spent on the Collectors Edition and playing about 2 months for free. It's well worth it and I got my monies worth waaay more than say GW2, which I played for 2 weeks before I got bored out of my mind.
I think we need a new niche sandbox MMO about doing..whatever. I tire of these raid endgames for gear. Why cant crafted gear be as good/epic after maxing crafting
Oh and I should add that I didn't rush to end game.. I played maybe 10-15 hours a week is all.
I was betting on 1-2 weeks before the forums get flooded by the "FFARR is not the best game ever I thought it was a few weeks ago!" posts. But I might have to edit down to 1 week until implosion.
At least everyone can go back to WoW for patch 5.4 until the next savior is picked.
First thing I noticed was that the OP is a hardcore gamer who has spent a lot more time in the game compared to the average gamer. It's not trying to knock the OP but of course the perception of staying power will diminish if you're running the game down out of its content in relatively short amounts of time. This isn't the case for more casual gamers like myself, which I want to believe represents how the majority of MMO gamers play these games.
Issue 1: You have to do your market research and look for the demand. I as a goldsmith find the more valued items in the weirdest places, i.e. on my server, everyone is paying a huge amount for fang earrings (relative to its cost), its like a low-mid level crafting earring but I don't question, I just put it out there. I can't speak for the higher levels of crafting but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the value in crafting as of yet with less than month since its release.
Issue 2: People might of burned through a lot of the content, but not all people like myself. I do agree FATE's exp gains are ridiculous but at the same time laugh when those max leveled players cry about not having cash, you reap what you sow if you ignore an aspect of the game.
Issue 3: I don't see why everyone has to hit level 50, you practically argued me out of it by saying how oversaturated everything is at max level. I'm doing fine for myself at the mid level range and again don't have too much issue in producing the gil I need in a slow and deliberate manner. I don't share in your belief that the "journey" doesn't matter because to me it matters and I'm enjoying doing quests and reading dialog even if the level of the quest is 2-3 levels lower etc.
Again, not everyone is playing for the same reasons and it doesn't necessarily always match your thinking and style. The game starting at end-game is a poor way of thinking that was unfortunately established by WoW when the low-mid level content became so stale and easily ignored that they had to recreate it. This isn't the case with FFXIV for me since there is more things to do, crafting is a little more engaging and the dialog is much better written thanmost other MMO's even for low level quests.
Issue 4: That's based on players' preferences, not the games fault and is to be accepted. What would be the alternative to the duty finder and the way it handles its instances, substitute a tank or healer out for a DPS? It just can't work that way if they were to continue pursuing that design.
Issue 5 and 6: Can't comment on it personally. Can only refer to the hardcore gamer vs casual gamer comparisons in burning through content.
Issue 7: Agree on gil-sellers but no MMO ever wants gil sellers. If they could spray gil-seller spray all over the MMO on a routine basis and destroy them like pests, it would happen, but unfortunately the issue isn't that easy to solve.
Gil gains vs gil sinks isn't something I agree with in terms of using it as a need to fix the economy. If the economy is ran using capitalist models than the value of the gil will fluctuate based on its scarcity and it will balance itself out regardless. I also agree in punishing an amount of failures in a dungeon run. I don't disagree that something could be done to make things a little better. I think players should also learn to manage their money better as well more specifically with things such as teleports and similar novelties.
Its won't fail the population will shrink alot but it will likely be ongoing game fot for years...
Lineage II is a good example of what tends to occur with these asian style MMO's..as is Aion.
Its far too early to make a judgment. Need to see
a) how fast 2.1 and 2.2 come
b) what is in them
Also, FFXIV has a great world and tons of soul, osmething games like Rift lacked. While the people that feel that endgame is where its at may not stick around FFXIV, the people that play MMORPGs for the world and community may very well stay.
And you are SEVERELY overestimating the amount of people with a level 50.
I agree 100% with the OP, and can not have said it better about crafting. After starting the game crafting and finally realizing how stupidly easy it is to get every armor and weapon you would ever need ( seriously i have too many stuff hoarding in storage just by doing quests which don't require much effort ) it completely demoralized me from even bothering to craft anymore.
Leveling pace all mostly due to FATE is also killing the game, why should you be rewarded for spamming the screen more xp/etc than a person working their ass off in dungeons which are more fun anyways. FATES should of never gave this much reward for such little effort. In before the obligatory hey you don't have to do this if you don't want to.
OP I have always said this since i started beta but people on forum anywhere just whiteknight the crap and out of game and are blind to anything said by anyone. The retention rate of this game will seriously look grim if they make it all this easy and casual.
and by the way just because primes hard mode are only source of difficulty doesn't mean squat when 99% of game is a cake walk.
this will soon become the same as every other mmorpg that has come out for the past few years as hyped at start....too easy and extremely over casualised....and then people move on to the next thing before even a year is up.
I just really started this morning after finally getting the game, but my one concern and a peeve of mine, is no water/swimming exploration. Seems like in this day and age that would be a norm for mmorpgs. I miss the idea of PvP also, even though I heard it will be implemented later. I still keep thinking I should be building my toon for fighting someone else and it isn't going to happen.
Right now I can't really address any of the OPs points, but I am having fun so far. There is nothing really new brought to the genre with this title, but that really isn't a bad thing.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I dont necessarily disagree with most of what you wrote, by the way. I just think its *far* too early to make a call. they have some work to do though.
Pretty much fully agree. Though id like to add how frustrated is is to see where 1.0 left of fin terms of its systems as they turned out, just to see it all thrown out for this samey crap we see everywhere. Another major complaint for me was how dull the gear stats are. What the hell happened to all the stuff that made a piece of gear stand out even a little? Where are my special stats on AF/Relic/Primal weapons..ect.?
Remember when having a relic weapon (which is a joke compared to how it was) had that sweet buff to your 15 min skill? or you got additional elemental damage or HP absorb from the primal weapons? How about the gear that focused on certain stats so you could mix and match more to what you think you need (aka: this piece is heavy on ACC or Crit rate). Now we are stuck with this dull linear gear grind that is only slow because you have to run the same instance 20+ times to get enough tomes (this games token system) to buy a piece set of gear...which you use to do the next instance and throw that shit on the ground basically.
1.0 was heading to something for the people who enjoyed the older MMOs like EQ and XI, but not so harsh with some modern changes. It had so much potential, but it was thrown away to live up to this bizar standard that is set and doing nothing orginal.
This game wont last long, Its never going to be going on 11+ years like XI. I give it a year tops before its on the brink of f2p. Give it another month tops before 70% of the servers are emptyed as people go to play the next shiny MMO that makes too many grand promises and SE regerets adding all these servers they just put in.
Was wondering when we would get a doom and gloom post from all those people who bypassed all the content to race to 50.
So the game lacks content you say?
Oh and crafting isn't useless at 50. Not by a long shot.
Ill be 50 within the week, ill then start the endgame process, which I look forward to because I like this type of endgame which is why im playing this type of game. I have a lot of work to do on my crafting and gathering classes. Once I get that sorted ill need to get some cross classes up to par before I start getting too deep into endgame.
After that? Ill be working on a new class that isn't cross classed with my main.
Yeah the story is over, however, I didn't burn out fate grinding to 50 like a lot. I wont mind doing that and leves...also theres a fair amount of mob dropped crafting items I want to take advantage of, as they sell for a lot.
We all knew this would happen, usually does right around sub renewal time. Every game the people obsessed with speed leveling to endgame get upset that there is no content...however they don't like the content that is actually there. I don't mind dungeon farming...I actually like it...so I don't have an issue with the up hill process getting my tombs and then gear and then moving on to harder content.
Hopefully wildstar gets here fast so these people can move on to another race+dissapointment, this game will do just fine not being in the spotlight.
Wildstar looks terrible IMO. FFXIV ARR is at least fun~ I didn't rush or skip content either... I do fates when there is nothing else to do quest wise. I've done many leves, etc. seen all the lands, gone to all the dungeons. I enjoyed the story a lot more than I expected as well.
Dungeons were great by the way, just pointless too as DPS anyway.. long long queues. Some of them were actually kinda hard which was refreshing. I loved figuring out their "puzzles" for the bosses, etc.
This certainly didn't begin with WOW. That was a normal way of thinking in games like DAOC and SWG as well. The thing is in those games it was partly true as reaching that point was typically only the beginning. In SWG you had many options of what to do, and your character was pretty much worthless until reaching full template. DAOC was all about the RvR endgame again non-capped toons were of little use when it came to the main activity of the product RvR.
I'd say WOW actually ushered in the current common concept that the journey is the bulk of the experience.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Those days are long gone I'm afraid, unless players are willing to put up with all the bullshit we used to.
I mean, we put up with the top endgame boss being unkillable for 3+ years in XI. No way in hell that stuff flies today.
Options.
(-_-)
Only on Legacy servers.
That's actually incorrect in regards to DAOC because leveling was THE goal and it was considered by everyone to be the whole game. When you hit max level, you made it. That was it. That's how it was for a while until expansions came out and content started getting added on the end. I'll admit thats the only MMO i played where I actually didn't hit maximum level. In WoW, low-mid leveling became considered to be an obstacle to what people would actually consider the game aka end-game and this was the first game I experienced this way of thinking in terms of playing the game in an MMO.
SWG wasn't the same either because it was a sandbox and technically didn't have levels. Arguing about end-game in a sandbox with no levels doesn't prove much when we are speaking more in terms of theme park MMO's. Getting to the maximum parts of the game ((in one thing) wasn't actually nearly as time consuming as hitting max level in any theme-park MMO and no other game allowed me to hire a complete newbie to do lower level craft style work and allowed that newbie to get compensated millions of credit for sharing in my work (mostly "grunt" work, but she loved doing it and was sad when I told her I was leaving). I taught her everything in regards to resource gathering and she didn't need anything beyond the most basic levels of crafting. So you are also wrong in "needing" to be max level to get anywhere in sandbox styled games.
What I was mostly pointing out about WoW was the heavier emphasis on people feeling that they HAVE to hit end game to actually play the game and trivializing low-mid levels as mere obstacles to the game. I still firmly believe WoW started this trend and definitely played on the impatience of people when trying to attain goals.
No not only on legacy servers, legacy chars had chance to server transfer back in beta phase 3 i believe. There was also a level cap on early access of lvl 20 for new chars. I agree now adays people rush to max level. I have a legacy char started fresh Up to about lvl 25 on my main and lvl 10 on other jobs. Still enjoying myself stil got a long ways to go im happy plan on playing for awhile
I am quite certain you cannot transfer a character to a non-legacy server. That is the point of legacy servers. You don't get a any free levels on non-legacy, you start fresh like everyone else. Yes P4 and EA let you get to 20, but no more than that.