Originally posted by Shatter30 I watched a video last night of a boss fight and the player had over 6 mil gil, based on gear he had, etc there was no way he got it legit. Im level 50 and have farmed mats I've sold, Ive mostly taken the GIL option on quest handins and I havent made more then 500K gil at best. Im not saying people cant have that much 4 weeks after launch, but the number should be very small and it would only be people who committed time since launch to just make money
And the people posting here that they got it legit never seem to say how they did it. The game's been out 4 weeks and people walking around with that much already..I call BS on this.
and I call BS on your statement. I am a Legacy player. Even after Yoshida's partial Gil wipe I enter the game with 5.5 Mil. I have most crafting and gathering Classes to 50. During slow periods I mine Darksteel and Gold Ores with my Miner and convert them to Nuggets with my Bsm and Gsm. It's no problem for my to make 50K a day just doing this. This is on top of the other crafting I do. Didn't take me long to make another 2.5 Mil, all done legally.
I'm sure it's completely legal. The issue is that you are selling at inflated prices because there is an unnatural inflation in gil because of item duping and gil exploits. In a perfect system with no bots/exploits, your nuggets and w/e you sell would sell for a lot less because there wouldn't be as much gil in the economy.
The blanket ban does screw some legitimate players. I for one think it's pretty dumb to simply ban everyone with over 8 mil. It's a very short-term fix. They need to setup systems to track purchases and allow legitimate sellers to reclaim items sold for illegally made gil.
Once gold spammers and illegitimate gil takes hold in an economy, the only way to stop cascading inflation is to be very heavy and quite liberal with the ban hammer.
You have to put the economy on full stop while the gil is cleaned out of the economy. Yes, that means players that did nothing wrong will have to suffer temporary bans to prevent the gil from infecting further.
Due to the extremely limited gil generation in this game, the game is utterly incapable of handling this kind of inflation. It will price out nearly the entire server from participating in the market. That only increases demand for RMT more.
It seems heavy handed, but its required. I know it seems extremely unfair for those people that legitimately made a ton of money (at least in their view). However, if most gains were gained through illegitimate means - whether or not you directly involved, makes no difference to the economy. You can't use tweezers to fix this problem. You need a sledgehammer.
My FC and I have been selling Titan HM runs over the past two days. We've already generated over 1 million gil. That is concerning, fortunately we are socking it away in a FC vault and not putting it back in the economy. Hopefully, that keeps SE off our backs.
Too bad I earned 17 million Gil (I started by leveling all professions classes) and now I am banned for 3 days because I am under RMT investigation. Good job SE!
Ill never understand the whine about gil generation, there are plenty of ways to obtain them and I for one are secured for bit.
Fishing is also decent for generating gil, the leves for it makes gil generating look like wow dailies on steroids.
The only reason you have 17 million gil is because gold farmers and gill exploiters are driving the prices up but dumping so much gold into the economy. So the stuff your selling is unobtainable by anyone not buying gil or not participating in the arms race.
Does the whole gold selling is bad thing make sense to you now. Its a vicious cycle.
You don't know what you're talking about. Cyan is on my server and not only a dedicated crafter, she is very smart and efficient in the method she has used to level and make sales. She earned most of that fortune hitting up early 50 adventurers for 100k for their artifact weapons. Inflated? a little, but smart. Those people had accumulated money by questing, selling stuff and forming fates. They easily had 100k each to drop being one of the first few to finish that quest.
I'm on the same server and as a weaver primary and a number of secondaries, i sell the 1 star garments hq for 35-70k depending on who is competing on market and which piece. It adds up over time, and after 2 weeks, I too have a ban/under investigation. I made a thread about it.
Alot of people can't even imagine having money in the game because they are too lazy or ignorant to get it. It's easy and I certainly wouldn't call someone a cheater, or even necessarily suspect it, if they had 500k to 2mil to drop on an item 3 weeks to a month after release. All you trash talkers full of jealousy and vitriol need to take a step back and realize, for real, legitimate players are being punished...
...and it's the weaknesses in their own system that cause it. They can't just push a button or design a game aspect so it can't be exploited and instead of fixing it, they blanket ban. It's a sign of poor planning, and a sign of poor game craftsmanship.
I'm not even sure if I'm going back now, WHEN they find I've done nothing wrong. I've rationalized the end of playing the game in my mind and I'm comfortable with walking away. I hate being falsely accused. I hate when people in authority can't get their acts together and it affects me.
No, YOU don't know what you're talking about. Yes, some of those people bought your goods with money they earned themselves, but the vast majority probably did not, considering the prices some of the gear is going for. That's like saying you had a boat that you made, and you sold it to a man in a ski mask holding a bag full of money with a bank's name printed on it, and you cannot fathom there being anything wrong with that situation. I have almost all crafting to 50. I was one of the first on the server to be 50 goldsmithing, one of the most lucrative crafting professions. I STILL don't have 8 million gil (but close), and I only make my own gear for this very reason. The prices are stupid out of control. They got that way from inflation caused by RMT. You can pretend to be willfully stupid about it, but you're not, and somewhere in your head, you know that half of your stuff you sold was bought with MT gil.....especially the items that go for almost 1 million gil themselves.
You are off base, just another example of "I couldn't do it, obviously anyone who can is cheating or involved with cheating".
/Yawn
You can pretend to be an authority about it, but you're not, and somewhere in your head you know your accusation is from jealousy for the fact you don't know what to constructively do with your time to earn money because you're bad at math and common sense.
I never sold stuff for "millions". No one thing I ever sold was ever over 65k. It's offensive to me you feel, just because you are bad at something and ignorant, you have the right to stand there and insult me and my constructive use of time and resources.
You can't possibly be suggesting that the money you earned was in no way affected by gold selling. You may not have cheated yourself, but you are definitely a small part of market manipulation - whether or not you actively realized it.
The game's economy cannot sustain massive gil consolidation. There simply are not enough gil creators and there are definitely not enough gil sinks (repair fees nerfed). Gold selling completely threw off market equilibrium and if SE wants to roll that effect back they have to hit everyone.
Hopefully they have a process in place to quickly analyze an account for RMT and remove the tainted gil. If they want that gil gone, there's no other way to do it.
Whether or not they *need* to is probably a different discussion. You don't have to participate in the economy, with a team for 10 or so you can easily do it all outside of market fluctuations.
Due to the extremely limited gil generation in this game,
I'm not picking on you, because your post was thought out and sensible...
...relying on this above point to be true, when really, it's not. I think this is the hang-up that has so many people disbelieving others can legitimately make gil.
Look, I will cite just one example how you're wrong.
As I have crafted and adventured, I've harvested alot of my own materials (mats). This stuff comes free off the ground or from drops, and I make stuff with it. Now if I use my "free stuff" and make hq adventuring gear for my current level, from a number of story quests I can opt, instead of a gear upgrade, for the allagan piece cash rewards that are sold to vendor. In the late 30s onward, many quest allagan pieces net 1000-2500 per quest.
So, if I sell a decent stat item to someone for a reasonable price, let's say 5k, they "pay themselves back" for the item in the next 2 or 3 "quest revolutions" of that particular slot quest reward, and even might make a profit. Meanwhile, I have that 5k and 19 other people's 5k and have earned 100 " today " from that particular item, pure profit, because again, I have gone to get everything to make it, myself. Granted, " I " don't make 20 of one thing and put it on the market, but multiply this by 5, 20, 40, as more people start also crafting and netting themselves and their customers allagan piece quest rewards, as thousands of people are opting for thousands of gil payout per quest, millions... MILLIONS of gil are dumping into the economy every few minutes those quests are completed.
As an aside a number of crafting and gathering leves pay a disproportionate reward compared with most adventuring quests.
Alot of you just aren't "getting it" and you can't "get it" for whatever reason you can't grasp the math. It's not that "millions of gil are changing hands per transaction". That is hyperbole and rubbish. There's plenty of legitimate money in every server's economy, even the newest ones.
Due to the extremely limited gil generation in this game,
I'm not picking on you, because your post was thought out and sensible...
...relying on this above point to be true, when really, it's not. I think this is the hang-up that has so many people disbelieving others can legitimately make gil.
Look, I will cite just one example how you're wrong.
As I have crafted and adventured, I've harvested alot of my own materials (mats). This stuff comes free off the ground or from drops, and I make stuff with it. Now if I use my "free stuff" and make hq adventuring gear for my current level, from a number of story quests I can opt, instead of a gear upgrade, for the allagan piece cash rewards that are sold to vendor. In the late 30s onward, many quest allagan pieces net 1000-2500 per quest.
So, if I sell a decent stat item to someone for a reasonable price, let's say 5k, they "pay themselves back" for the item in the next 2 or 3 "quest revolutions" of that particular slot quest reward, and even might make a profit. Meanwhile, I have that 5k and 19 other people's 5k and have earned 100 " today " from that particular item, pure profit, because again, I have gone to get everything to make it, myself. Granted, " I " don't make 20 of one thing and put it on the market, but multiply this by 5, 20, 40, as more people start also crafting and netting themselves and their customers allagan piece quest rewards, as thousands of people are opting for thousands of gil payout per quest, millions... MILLIONS of gil are dumping into the economy every few minutes those quests are completed.
As an aside a number of crafting and gathering leves pay a disproportionate reward compared with most adventuring quests.
Alot of you just aren't "getting it" and you can't "get it" for whatever reason you can't grasp the math. It's not that "millions of gil are changing hands per transaction". That is hyperbole and rubbish. There's plenty of legitimate money in every server's economy, even the newest ones.
Think larger. I said "gil creation" for a specific reason. When someone buys something from you, you've not created gil - you've transferred gil. Done on a large enough scale, that's wealth consolidation which basically ends an economy.
That's what has happened in FFXIV due to massive wealth transfers through RMT. Yes, this will always help a few savvy individuals but that doesn't make up for the massive damage to the economy. Due to the fact that gil creation and destruction are so tightly managed, it makes it even harder for this economy to adjust to the inflation that will come from from consolidation. I think you are vastly over estimating the amount of gil fonts in the game. It's far smaller than just about every other game I've seen in the past decade. There's also nothing combating inflation, because gil sinks weren't included because SE didn't expect to ever have inflation issues.
The entire storyline and all side quests create maybe...250k gil? I'm seeing some fairly simple to obtain items going for 50k+. That shouldn't be considered normal. It's way too early for that to be a normal rate of inflation given that after quests are done you *only* have leves and FATES to generate gil, which are capped at daily growth of 3 per day. That is extremely constricted.
Fortunately, you don't need to ever grace the market with your presence if you so choose. That doesn't change the fact that the economy is essentially ruined.
You can't possibly be suggesting that the money you earned was in no way affected by gold selling. You may not have cheated yourself, but you are definitely a small part of market manipulation - whether or not you actively realized it.
The game's economy cannot sustain massive gil consolidation. There simply are not enough gil creators and there are definitely not enough gil sinks (repair fees nerfed). Gold selling completely threw off market equilibrium and if SE wants to roll that effect back they have to hit everyone.
Hopefully they have a process in place to quickly analyze an account for RMT and remove the tainted gil. If they want that gil gone, there's no other way to do it.
Whether or not they *need* to is probably a different discussion. You don't have to participate in the economy, with a team for 10 or so you can easily do it all outside of market fluctuations.
This same thing could be said about "bat wings at 2 gil". Maybe someone who purchased gil through RMT needed bat wings and spent 10 tainted gil on some poor 14 yo kid's first market transaction.
Should this kid's account now be frozen for 3 days over it?
The entire storyline and all side quests create maybe...250k gil? I'm seeing some fairly simple to obtain items going for 50k+. That shouldn't be considered normal. It's way too early for that to be a normal rate of inflation given that after quests are done you *only* have leves and FATES to generate gil, which are capped at daily growth of 3 per day. That is extremely constricted.
It's far more storyline income if you aren't choosing gear upgrade rewards.
Things that are "overpriced" are so because often they are "bottleneck items" which, while easy to get, can just as easily be purchased by those who don't want to spend the time getting "it". So, that "it" becomes subject to sale to the highest bidder. Anyone else is out of luck and has to go spend that hour or 20 hours or whatever getting it.
You can't possibly be suggesting that the money you earned was in no way affected by gold selling. You may not have cheated yourself, but you are definitely a small part of market manipulation - whether or not you actively realized it.
The game's economy cannot sustain massive gil consolidation. There simply are not enough gil creators and there are definitely not enough gil sinks (repair fees nerfed). Gold selling completely threw off market equilibrium and if SE wants to roll that effect back they have to hit everyone.
Hopefully they have a process in place to quickly analyze an account for RMT and remove the tainted gil. If they want that gil gone, there's no other way to do it.
Whether or not they *need* to is probably a different discussion. You don't have to participate in the economy, with a team for 10 or so you can easily do it all outside of market fluctuations.
This same thing could be said about "bat wings at 2 gil". Maybe someone who purchased gil through RMT needed bat wings and spent 10 tainted gil on some poor 14 yo kid's first market transaction.
Should this kid's account now be frozen for 3 days over it?
Rather depends on the velocity of gil entering and leaving that account, right? Lets say the RMT spent 2,000 gil for 200 wings.
Is that 2,000 gil going to have much of an impact on the overall economy? No.
Now lets change it. Let's say the RMT spent 2,000,000 gil for some quantity of item he/she needed for market manipulation. Now this 14 year old has 2 million gil to do whatever. He goes on a materia buying spree, buys up everything - regardless of price. Boom, market reset. A savvy player now re-establishes that market at a significantly higher price.
That 14 year old still doesn't care and will still buy those items because he/she can. It doesn't factor into a gil management, because there is just too much of it.
Inflation should be governed by the rate of gil creation, not the whims of the super wealthy who may not know better or don't care.
The entire storyline and all side quests create maybe...250k gil? I'm seeing some fairly simple to obtain items going for 50k+. That shouldn't be considered normal. It's way too early for that to be a normal rate of inflation given that after quests are done you *only* have leves and FATES to generate gil, which are capped at daily growth of 3 per day. That is extremely constricted.
It's far more storyline income if you aren't choosing gear upgrade rewards.
Things that are "overpriced" are so because often they are "bottleneck items" which, while easy to get, can just as easily be purchased by those who don't want to spend the time getting "it". So, that "it" becomes subject to sale to the highest bidder. Anyone else is out of luck and has to go spend that hour or 20 hours or whatever getting it.
There's only one bottleneck item in the entire game - materia III's. We see inflation almost across the board with the exception of materials in easily botted node paths.
RMT and botting kills the economy. Those low level materials are the most accessible forms of wealth transfer in the game for new players. Bots have crashed it. RMT consolidated wealth at the top, who can throw 100 gil at some (per piece) and not bat an eyelid.
Even assuming that the entire storyline/sidequest is 350k, that doesn't make up for the economic effects. Not even close.
As a disclaimer, I barely hold any interest in this going either way. I don't have to participate in the economy because my FC is designed around self support. For gil sinks (aka housing) we sell Titan HM runs and have a tidy stash of gil in our FC for any gil-sink related process.
The entire storyline and all side quests create maybe...250k gil? I'm seeing some fairly simple to obtain items going for 50k+. That shouldn't be considered normal. It's way too early for that to be a normal rate of inflation given that after quests are done you *only* have leves and FATES to generate gil, which are capped at daily growth of 3 per day. That is extremely constricted.
It's far more storyline income if you aren't choosing gear upgrade rewards.
Things that are "overpriced" are so because often they are "bottleneck items" which, while easy to get, can just as easily be purchased by those who don't want to spend the time getting "it". So, that "it" becomes subject to sale to the highest bidder. Anyone else is out of luck and has to go spend that hour or 20 hours or whatever getting it.
There's only one bottleneck item in the entire game - materia III's. We see inflation almost across the board with the exception of materials in easily botted node paths.
RMT and botting kills the economy. Those low level materials are the most accessible forms of wealth transfer in the game for new players. Bots have crashed it. RMT consolidated wealth at the top, who can throw 100 gil at some (per piece) and not bat an eyelid.
Even assuming that the entire storyline/sidequest is 350k, that doesn't make up for the economic effects. Not even close.
As a disclaimer, I barely hold any interest in this going either way. I don't have to participate in the economy because my FC is designed around self support. For gil sinks (aka housing) we sell Titan HM runs and have a tidy stash of gil in our FC for any gil-sink related process.
Yes, of course rmt and botting hurts the economy. Don't mix that true statement with a bunch of half-truths and expect your entire message to blanketly be true.
Materia III is not the "only bottleneck", although for some people it may be a big one. There are plenty to lesser degrees. HQ Millioncorn is worth more than it should be because a culinarian can grind 200 hq cornmeal and turn it in a leve repeatedly to earn 6 levels, aside from the xp they earned grinding it for 2 or 3 levels. As was discussed earlier in the thread, crafted AF weapon sells early-on at 100k each, and even in established servers probably hasn't dropped below 40-50k.
Even IF the storyline netted 350k, alot of 50s are broke and farming craft mats between queues to pay for repairs and teleports. Where did that 350k times 500 (?) 1000 (?) 5000 (?) characters go? That's legitimate money, and alot of it.
The entire storyline and all side quests create maybe...250k gil? I'm seeing some fairly simple to obtain items going for 50k+. That shouldn't be considered normal. It's way too early for that to be a normal rate of inflation given that after quests are done you *only* have leves and FATES to generate gil, which are capped at daily growth of 3 per day. That is extremely constricted.
It's far more storyline income if you aren't choosing gear upgrade rewards.
Things that are "overpriced" are so because often they are "bottleneck items" which, while easy to get, can just as easily be purchased by those who don't want to spend the time getting "it". So, that "it" becomes subject to sale to the highest bidder. Anyone else is out of luck and has to go spend that hour or 20 hours or whatever getting it.
There's only one bottleneck item in the entire game - materia III's. We see inflation almost across the board with the exception of materials in easily botted node paths.
RMT and botting kills the economy. Those low level materials are the most accessible forms of wealth transfer in the game for new players. Bots have crashed it. RMT consolidated wealth at the top, who can throw 100 gil at some (per piece) and not bat an eyelid.
Even assuming that the entire storyline/sidequest is 350k, that doesn't make up for the economic effects. Not even close.
As a disclaimer, I barely hold any interest in this going either way. I don't have to participate in the economy because my FC is designed around self support. For gil sinks (aka housing) we sell Titan HM runs and have a tidy stash of gil in our FC for any gil-sink related process.
Yes, of course rmt and botting hurts the economy. Don't mix that true statement with a bunch of half-truths and expect your entire message to blanketly be true.
Materia III is not the "only bottleneck", although for some people it may be a big one. There are plenty to lesser degrees. HQ Millioncorn is worth more than it should be because a culinarian can grind 200 hq cornmeal and turn it in a leve repeatedly to earn 6 levels, aside from the xp they earned grinding it for 2 or 3 levels. As was discussed earlier in the thread, crafted AF weapon sells early-on at 100k each, and even in established servers probably hasn't dropped below 40-50k.
Even IF the storyline netted 350k, alot of 50s are broke and farming craft mats between queues to pay for repairs and teleports. Where did that 350k times 500 (?) 1000 (?) 5000 (?) characters go? That's legitimate money, and alot of it.
There are no half truths in my post, you are stretching terminology in a way that doesn't make a ton of sense. A bottleneck is something you *must* pass through, not something that blocks progress for an area that you *chose* to pursue. There is one storyline progression bottleneck - materia. Everything else is purely crafting related which is entirely optional. I don't see how you can ever define an optional process as a bottleneck. You don't have to do it.
Yes, there is the issue of the crafted weapon. I'll consider some items in there to be included in the bottlneck, but your example is culinarian. What relic requires that?
You really don't get it. Yes, that money was legitimate. A lot of it no longer is due to RMT. I think you and SE vastly underestimate the effects of RMT. It's a huge business, difficult to combat, and even harder to fix once embedded into the econonmy.
I personally don't care if people believe I earned my 17 million gil the "Legal" way, what I get offended about is a 3 day ban for playing the economy game as SE intented, just because the RMT whine is out of hand.
The argument that you can't do it isnt viable at all, there's a ton of different servers, all with vastly different market board prices and communities.
I got my ban lifted and I an gonna sub on the 6th because I love the FF series, but I decided not to do anymore market board playing for a while and offer my services for free to everyone.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe.
Think larger. I said "gil creation" for a specific reason. When someone buys something from you, you've not created gil - you've transferred gil. Done on a large enough scale, that's wealth consolidation which basically ends an economy.
Then they should have instituted a gil cap from the beginning. People close to the ceiling could flood the economy with 5 mil every weekend, anticipating making it back over the next week.
That's not my fault. None of this is "my fault" other than the fact I play a popular game that attracts corruption.
As an aside, I got an automated message my trial period is about to end. Apparently I need to pay money for my suspended account or it will expire. See, this company doesn't even have the presence of mind to somehow halt that or freeze my game time during this "investigation". I really, truly, have one foot out the door here.
I got my ban lifted and I an gonna sub on the 6th because I love the FF series, but I decided not to do anymore market board playing for a while and offer my services for free to everyone.
Good. I'm glad some of this is ending, but mine is still suspended.
I'm split with indifference when it comes to this. While it's very possible to have 10+ million gil by now (and reasonable for people not to reveal their cash cow on the internet so that everyone can jump on it), the spam by RMT has been unbearable in main town. This is especially true since they seemed to be doing nothing about it and there was no easy way just to right click a name and place them on the blacklist. That combined with the inability to transfer your items and gil to an alternate character (especially if you made a new character or two in 2.0 and had stuff ready for them in 1.0), it just became a mess that punished legit players and rewarded RMT since such restrictions on reporting and transfer did not effect them what with their hacked accounts (might've just encouraged even more hacked accounts to compensate).
This is the main reason I let my subscription lapse, as I couldn't play the game the way I wanted with my alts, and I couldn't read anything in towns. That matched with the difficulty of the game (I never intended to do raiding the first year but rather level multiple alts for gil making reasons) in that you have to complete all those dungeons using the Duty Finder (found it unreasonable to ask the same friends to do something 8 times in a row for me) just had me go back to WoW and try out 5.4 and get my old Arena / RBG team back together (not to mention the flex raiding for us as we no longer needed 15 unreliable people to join us).
If they fix the issue with moving funds (which caused problems in itself as people used it to send gil to other characters) by allowing you to mail to your own characters and limit the RMT spam somehow, I might make a return and continue working towards my original goal. I personally know someone who sold materials for relic items as well as selling Hard mode runs for hundreds of thousand of gil each. He let me in on some of his other methods, though I'm held in confidence as to not reveal them save for saying they weren't done in an illegal way. It's mainly just a case of the power gamers owning and controlling the economy, and the server not having enough existing funds (Legacy servers are still somewhat healthy from what I've heard and people are getting what they want fairly easily) or incoming gil to support multiple millionaires. That said, it's probably easy to decipher who has or hasn't obtained it in an illegal way. Though it still sucks for those who got banned for no reason.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
I like how the devs are takeing the real world approach. If your store has counterfeit money: You don't get the money and 90% of the time your not getting back what you sold.
I still cant believe people legitimize there fortune with, I mine this and sell it on the market for this much thats how I made it.
UHHHHHHHHH the money would have never been there if it wasnt for the Gold sellers. You cant get rich off selling to counterfeiters which is why most places check large bills to make sure there not counterfeit in real life. Cause you will get F'd over.
Sure you can blame the RMTers but its kinda your fault why did you think players had all this money to buy everything you put on the market at a high price this early in the game. You just thought all these people who didnt want to mine or craft were just sitting on piles of money doing quests??? Come on now, you knew it was RMTed Gil. And if you didnt your naive or a mmo newb.
I like how the devs are takeing the real world approach. If your store has counterfeit money: You don't get the money and 90% of the time your not getting back what you sold.
I still cant believe people legitimize there fortune with, I mine this and sell it on the market for this much thats how I made it.
UHHHHHHHHH the money would have never been there if it wasnt for the Gold sellers. You cant get rich off selling to counterfeiters which is why most places check large bills to make sure there not counterfeit in real life. Cause you will get F'd over.
Sure you can blame the RMTers but its kinda your fault why did you think players had all this money to buy everything you put on the market at a high price this early in the game. You just thought all these people who didnt want to mine or craft were just sitting on piles of money doing quests??? Come on now, you knew it was RMTed Gil. And if you didnt your naive or a mmo newb.
Fine, I hope sometime you try to do something well, you get screwed around for something you didn't do and can't control, and I further hope some clueless asshat is saying they're happy with your wasted time.
I like how the devs are takeing the real world approach. If your store has counterfeit money: You don't get the money and 90% of the time your not getting back what you sold.
I still cant believe people legitimize there fortune with, I mine this and sell it on the market for this much thats how I made it.
UHHHHHHHHH the money would have never been there if it wasnt for the Gold sellers. You cant get rich off selling to counterfeiters which is why most places check large bills to make sure there not counterfeit in real life. Cause you will get F'd over.
Sure you can blame the RMTers but its kinda your fault why did you think players had all this money to buy everything you put on the market at a high price this early in the game. You just thought all these people who didnt want to mine or craft were just sitting on piles of money doing quests??? Come on now, you knew it was RMTed Gil. And if you didnt your naive or a mmo newb.
Fine, I hope sometime you try to do something well, you get screwed around for something you didn't do and can't control, and I further hope some clueless asshat is saying they're happy with your wasted time.
Do well???
"A more apt title, now that I have more information and my best educated guess has changed based on that new information, would be: SQUARE ENIX ISSUING BLANKET 72H BAN TO PLAYERS WITH AT LEAST 8M GIL WHILE THEY INVESTIGATE RMT. See the rest of the post below for more detail."
This is what you all are basing your rage on. Someones guess on what SE is doing.
Ever think that maybe those who were found buying RMTing and anyone they had a transaction with are the ones being investigated not just , you have lots of money. It just so happens that the majority who have lots of money earned it from selling items to RMTers. No one had that kind of Gil to buy all your price inflated items. Even from the posts here people say I gathered this and made this daily and sold it at this high price daily thats how I got it. Well no f'n 5h17 sherlock how do you think you did that. If the market wasnt saturated with illegaly earned Gil you wouldnt be able to run the market like some PvE mini-game.
I like how the devs are takeing the real world approach. If your store has counterfeit money: You don't get the money and 90% of the time your not getting back what you sold.
I still cant believe people legitimize there fortune with, I mine this and sell it on the market for this much thats how I made it.
UHHHHHHHHH the money would have never been there if it wasnt for the Gold sellers. You cant get rich off selling to counterfeiters which is why most places check large bills to make sure there not counterfeit in real life. Cause you will get F'd over.
Sure you can blame the RMTers but its kinda your fault why did you think players had all this money to buy everything you put on the market at a high price this early in the game. You just thought all these people who didnt want to mine or craft were just sitting on piles of money doing quests??? Come on now, you knew it was RMTed Gil. And if you didnt your naive or a mmo newb.
Fine, I hope sometime you try to do something well, you get screwed around for something you didn't do and can't control, and I further hope some clueless asshat is saying they're happy with your wasted time.
Do well???
"A more apt title, now that I have more information and my best educated guess has changed based on that new information, would be: SQUARE ENIX ISSUING BLANKET 72H BAN TO PLAYERS WITH AT LEAST 8M GIL WHILE THEY INVESTIGATE RMT. See the rest of the post below for more detail."
This is what you all are basing your rage on. Someones guess on what SE is doing.
Ever think that maybe those who were found buying RMTing and anyone they had a transaction with are the ones being investigated not just , you have lots of money. It just so happens that the majority who have lots of money earned it from selling items to RMTers. No one had that kind of Gil to buy all your price inflated items. Even from the posts here people say I gathered this and made this daily and sold it at this high price daily thats how I got it. Well no f'n 5h17 sherlock how do you think you did that. If the market wasnt saturated with illegaly earned Gil you wouldnt be able to run the market like some PvE mini-game.
I base my rage on the fact I don't bot or have real money transactions in this game and my account is still suspended.
"No one had that kind of Gil to buy all your price inflated items."
This is where every other part of your "I'm trying to be right" argument breaks down. No matter how many times you or anyone else repeats this as mantra it doesn't make it so.
You're offensive, don't realize it and can't help it, because you're somehow convinced you're right and bully-pulpiting some nameless, faceless "opponent" on the internet. I'm serious, am completely involved with the facts, and hurt by my loss of time.
I like how the devs are takeing the real world approach. If your store has counterfeit money: You don't get the money and 90% of the time your not getting back what you sold.
I still cant believe people legitimize there fortune with, I mine this and sell it on the market for this much thats how I made it.
UHHHHHHHHH the money would have never been there if it wasnt for the Gold sellers. You cant get rich off selling to counterfeiters which is why most places check large bills to make sure there not counterfeit in real life. Cause you will get F'd over.
Sure you can blame the RMTers but its kinda your fault why did you think players had all this money to buy everything you put on the market at a high price this early in the game. You just thought all these people who didnt want to mine or craft were just sitting on piles of money doing quests??? Come on now, you knew it was RMTed Gil. And if you didnt your naive or a mmo newb.
Fine, I hope sometime you try to do something well, you get screwed around for something you didn't do and can't control, and I further hope some clueless asshat is saying they're happy with your wasted time.
Do well???
"A more apt title, now that I have more information and my best educated guess has changed based on that new information, would be: SQUARE ENIX ISSUING BLANKET 72H BAN TO PLAYERS WITH AT LEAST 8M GIL WHILE THEY INVESTIGATE RMT. See the rest of the post below for more detail."
This is what you all are basing your rage on. Someones guess on what SE is doing.
Ever think that maybe those who were found buying RMTing and anyone they had a transaction with are the ones being investigated not just , you have lots of money. It just so happens that the majority who have lots of money earned it from selling items to RMTers. No one had that kind of Gil to buy all your price inflated items. Even from the posts here people say I gathered this and made this daily and sold it at this high price daily thats how I got it. Well no f'n 5h17 sherlock how do you think you did that. If the market wasnt saturated with illegaly earned Gil you wouldnt be able to run the market like some PvE mini-game.
I base my rage on the fact I don't bot or have real money transactions in this game and my account is still suspended.
"No one had that kind of Gil to buy all your price inflated items."
This is where every other part of your "I'm trying to be right" argument breaks down. No matter how many times you or anyone else repeats this as mantra it doesn't make it so.
You're offensive, don't realize it and can't help it, because you're somehow convinced you're right and bully-pulpiting some nameless, faceless "opponent" on the internet. I'm serious, am completely involved with the facts, and hurt by my loss of time.
You should go take a flying leap. Thanks. Bye.
Dont get mad cause im right. Thats how Real Life works to. You cant feign ignorance of a crime (not saying its a legit crime). The money you earned was from GIl that was gained thru RMT and they consider that a no no.
So instead of just banning those who RMT and saying oh well we fixed it but the economy is f**ked to bad for those who didnt earn money from the rampant RMTing. There trying to fix the economy (well I hope and guess). You might lose all the money that came from accounts that RMT and you wont get the items you sold to em.
And the fact that your hurt because of a video game. Seriously, its a game. Its not real, those items arnt real and neither was the money. You play games to have fun or relax by wasting time on something not important. If the time you used in game was precious well you could of used it on something that was important like Learn a real trade, Sell your goods on a real market, and make REAL money. Its like getting p155ed off in monopoly or the game of life. Im sure you would laugh if someone got mad because you had to stop playing monopoly mid game and take some of his hotels cause he was given to much money at the start.
Its just a game itll be there after there done with whatever they are doing. And you can make more items and more Gil because thats why you did it right? Because it was fun..... I hope so cause having 8 mil in a video games gives you 0 bragging rights.
Dont get mad cause im right. Thats how Real Life works to. You cant feign ignorance of a crime (not saying its a legit crime). The money you earned was from GIl that was gained thru RMT and they consider that a no no.
So instead of just banning those who RMT and saying oh well we fixed it but the economy is f**ked to bad for those who didnt earn money from the rampant RMTing. There trying to fix the economy (well I hope and guess). You might lose all the money that came from accounts that RMT and you wont get the items you sold to em.
And the fact that your hurt because of a video game. Seriously, its a game. Its not real, those items arnt real and neither was the money. You play games to have fun or relax by wasting time on something not important. If the time you used in game was precious well you could of used it on something that was important like Learn a real trade, Sell your goods on a real market, and make REAL money. Its like getting p155ed off in monopoly or the game of life. Im sure you would laugh if someone got mad because you had to stop playing monopoly mid game and take some of his hotels cause he was given to much money at the start.
Its just a game itll be there after there done with whatever they are doing. And you can make more items and more Gil because thats why you did it right? Because it was fun..... I hope so cause having 8 mil in a video games gives you 0 bragging rights.
Honestly is this your first MMO? Do you realize how people make lots of money in most cases? The game has been open long enough for people to legitimately earn millions by now. You keep equating lots of Gil to larger one off purchasers while ignoring one simple fact.
You do realize how many people are passing in and out of a server on a daily basis? How much is 100 gil x 100 sales? This could happen in mere hours in some cases depending on the game and crafting structure. People have been playing and making gil since open beta, there was no wipe.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
I'm sure it's completely legal. The issue is that you are selling at inflated prices because there is an unnatural inflation in gil because of item duping and gil exploits. In a perfect system with no bots/exploits, your nuggets and w/e you sell would sell for a lot less because there wouldn't be as much gil in the economy.
The blanket ban does screw some legitimate players. I for one think it's pretty dumb to simply ban everyone with over 8 mil. It's a very short-term fix. They need to setup systems to track purchases and allow legitimate sellers to reclaim items sold for illegally made gil.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Once gold spammers and illegitimate gil takes hold in an economy, the only way to stop cascading inflation is to be very heavy and quite liberal with the ban hammer.
You have to put the economy on full stop while the gil is cleaned out of the economy. Yes, that means players that did nothing wrong will have to suffer temporary bans to prevent the gil from infecting further.
Due to the extremely limited gil generation in this game, the game is utterly incapable of handling this kind of inflation. It will price out nearly the entire server from participating in the market. That only increases demand for RMT more.
It seems heavy handed, but its required. I know it seems extremely unfair for those people that legitimately made a ton of money (at least in their view). However, if most gains were gained through illegitimate means - whether or not you directly involved, makes no difference to the economy. You can't use tweezers to fix this problem. You need a sledgehammer.
My FC and I have been selling Titan HM runs over the past two days. We've already generated over 1 million gil. That is concerning, fortunately we are socking it away in a FC vault and not putting it back in the economy. Hopefully, that keeps SE off our backs.
You are off base, just another example of "I couldn't do it, obviously anyone who can is cheating or involved with cheating".
/Yawn
You can pretend to be an authority about it, but you're not, and somewhere in your head you know your accusation is from jealousy for the fact you don't know what to constructively do with your time to earn money because you're bad at math and common sense.
I never sold stuff for "millions". No one thing I ever sold was ever over 65k. It's offensive to me you feel, just because you are bad at something and ignorant, you have the right to stand there and insult me and my constructive use of time and resources.
@Mattatron,
You can't possibly be suggesting that the money you earned was in no way affected by gold selling. You may not have cheated yourself, but you are definitely a small part of market manipulation - whether or not you actively realized it.
The game's economy cannot sustain massive gil consolidation. There simply are not enough gil creators and there are definitely not enough gil sinks (repair fees nerfed). Gold selling completely threw off market equilibrium and if SE wants to roll that effect back they have to hit everyone.
Hopefully they have a process in place to quickly analyze an account for RMT and remove the tainted gil. If they want that gil gone, there's no other way to do it.
Whether or not they *need* to is probably a different discussion. You don't have to participate in the economy, with a team for 10 or so you can easily do it all outside of market fluctuations.
I'm not picking on you, because your post was thought out and sensible...
...relying on this above point to be true, when really, it's not. I think this is the hang-up that has so many people disbelieving others can legitimately make gil.
Look, I will cite just one example how you're wrong.
As I have crafted and adventured, I've harvested alot of my own materials (mats). This stuff comes free off the ground or from drops, and I make stuff with it. Now if I use my "free stuff" and make hq adventuring gear for my current level, from a number of story quests I can opt, instead of a gear upgrade, for the allagan piece cash rewards that are sold to vendor. In the late 30s onward, many quest allagan pieces net 1000-2500 per quest.
So, if I sell a decent stat item to someone for a reasonable price, let's say 5k, they "pay themselves back" for the item in the next 2 or 3 "quest revolutions" of that particular slot quest reward, and even might make a profit. Meanwhile, I have that 5k and 19 other people's 5k and have earned 100 " today " from that particular item, pure profit, because again, I have gone to get everything to make it, myself. Granted, " I " don't make 20 of one thing and put it on the market, but multiply this by 5, 20, 40, as more people start also crafting and netting themselves and their customers allagan piece quest rewards, as thousands of people are opting for thousands of gil payout per quest, millions... MILLIONS of gil are dumping into the economy every few minutes those quests are completed.
As an aside a number of crafting and gathering leves pay a disproportionate reward compared with most adventuring quests.
Alot of you just aren't "getting it" and you can't "get it" for whatever reason you can't grasp the math. It's not that "millions of gil are changing hands per transaction". That is hyperbole and rubbish. There's plenty of legitimate money in every server's economy, even the newest ones.
Think larger. I said "gil creation" for a specific reason. When someone buys something from you, you've not created gil - you've transferred gil. Done on a large enough scale, that's wealth consolidation which basically ends an economy.
That's what has happened in FFXIV due to massive wealth transfers through RMT. Yes, this will always help a few savvy individuals but that doesn't make up for the massive damage to the economy. Due to the fact that gil creation and destruction are so tightly managed, it makes it even harder for this economy to adjust to the inflation that will come from from consolidation. I think you are vastly over estimating the amount of gil fonts in the game. It's far smaller than just about every other game I've seen in the past decade. There's also nothing combating inflation, because gil sinks weren't included because SE didn't expect to ever have inflation issues.
The entire storyline and all side quests create maybe...250k gil? I'm seeing some fairly simple to obtain items going for 50k+. That shouldn't be considered normal. It's way too early for that to be a normal rate of inflation given that after quests are done you *only* have leves and FATES to generate gil, which are capped at daily growth of 3 per day. That is extremely constricted.
Fortunately, you don't need to ever grace the market with your presence if you so choose. That doesn't change the fact that the economy is essentially ruined.
This same thing could be said about "bat wings at 2 gil". Maybe someone who purchased gil through RMT needed bat wings and spent 10 tainted gil on some poor 14 yo kid's first market transaction.
Should this kid's account now be frozen for 3 days over it?
It's far more storyline income if you aren't choosing gear upgrade rewards.
Things that are "overpriced" are so because often they are "bottleneck items" which, while easy to get, can just as easily be purchased by those who don't want to spend the time getting "it". So, that "it" becomes subject to sale to the highest bidder. Anyone else is out of luck and has to go spend that hour or 20 hours or whatever getting it.
Rather depends on the velocity of gil entering and leaving that account, right? Lets say the RMT spent 2,000 gil for 200 wings.
Is that 2,000 gil going to have much of an impact on the overall economy? No.
Now lets change it. Let's say the RMT spent 2,000,000 gil for some quantity of item he/she needed for market manipulation. Now this 14 year old has 2 million gil to do whatever. He goes on a materia buying spree, buys up everything - regardless of price. Boom, market reset. A savvy player now re-establishes that market at a significantly higher price.
That 14 year old still doesn't care and will still buy those items because he/she can. It doesn't factor into a gil management, because there is just too much of it.
Inflation should be governed by the rate of gil creation, not the whims of the super wealthy who may not know better or don't care.
Is this thread becoming a crash course in common sense, or what.
I think it's time for theme music.
It's a fan vid, but I like it better than the official.
There's only one bottleneck item in the entire game - materia III's. We see inflation almost across the board with the exception of materials in easily botted node paths.
RMT and botting kills the economy. Those low level materials are the most accessible forms of wealth transfer in the game for new players. Bots have crashed it. RMT consolidated wealth at the top, who can throw 100 gil at some (per piece) and not bat an eyelid.
Even assuming that the entire storyline/sidequest is 350k, that doesn't make up for the economic effects. Not even close.
As a disclaimer, I barely hold any interest in this going either way. I don't have to participate in the economy because my FC is designed around self support. For gil sinks (aka housing) we sell Titan HM runs and have a tidy stash of gil in our FC for any gil-sink related process.
Yes, of course rmt and botting hurts the economy. Don't mix that true statement with a bunch of half-truths and expect your entire message to blanketly be true.
Materia III is not the "only bottleneck", although for some people it may be a big one. There are plenty to lesser degrees. HQ Millioncorn is worth more than it should be because a culinarian can grind 200 hq cornmeal and turn it in a leve repeatedly to earn 6 levels, aside from the xp they earned grinding it for 2 or 3 levels. As was discussed earlier in the thread, crafted AF weapon sells early-on at 100k each, and even in established servers probably hasn't dropped below 40-50k.
Even IF the storyline netted 350k, alot of 50s are broke and farming craft mats between queues to pay for repairs and teleports. Where did that 350k times 500 (?) 1000 (?) 5000 (?) characters go? That's legitimate money, and alot of it.
There are no half truths in my post, you are stretching terminology in a way that doesn't make a ton of sense. A bottleneck is something you *must* pass through, not something that blocks progress for an area that you *chose* to pursue. There is one storyline progression bottleneck - materia. Everything else is purely crafting related which is entirely optional. I don't see how you can ever define an optional process as a bottleneck. You don't have to do it.
Yes, there is the issue of the crafted weapon. I'll consider some items in there to be included in the bottlneck, but your example is culinarian. What relic requires that?
You really don't get it. Yes, that money was legitimate. A lot of it no longer is due to RMT. I think you and SE vastly underestimate the effects of RMT. It's a huge business, difficult to combat, and even harder to fix once embedded into the econonmy.
I personally don't care if people believe I earned my 17 million gil the "Legal" way, what I get offended about is a 3 day ban for playing the economy game as SE intented, just because the RMT whine is out of hand.
The argument that you can't do it isnt viable at all, there's a ton of different servers, all with vastly different market board prices and communities.
I got my ban lifted and I an gonna sub on the 6th because I love the FF series, but I decided not to do anymore market board playing for a while and offer my services for free to everyone.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe.
Then they should have instituted a gil cap from the beginning. People close to the ceiling could flood the economy with 5 mil every weekend, anticipating making it back over the next week.
That's not my fault. None of this is "my fault" other than the fact I play a popular game that attracts corruption.
As an aside, I got an automated message my trial period is about to end. Apparently I need to pay money for my suspended account or it will expire. See, this company doesn't even have the presence of mind to somehow halt that or freeze my game time during this "investigation". I really, truly, have one foot out the door here.
Good. I'm glad some of this is ending, but mine is still suspended.
I'm split with indifference when it comes to this. While it's very possible to have 10+ million gil by now (and reasonable for people not to reveal their cash cow on the internet so that everyone can jump on it), the spam by RMT has been unbearable in main town. This is especially true since they seemed to be doing nothing about it and there was no easy way just to right click a name and place them on the blacklist. That combined with the inability to transfer your items and gil to an alternate character (especially if you made a new character or two in 2.0 and had stuff ready for them in 1.0), it just became a mess that punished legit players and rewarded RMT since such restrictions on reporting and transfer did not effect them what with their hacked accounts (might've just encouraged even more hacked accounts to compensate).
This is the main reason I let my subscription lapse, as I couldn't play the game the way I wanted with my alts, and I couldn't read anything in towns. That matched with the difficulty of the game (I never intended to do raiding the first year but rather level multiple alts for gil making reasons) in that you have to complete all those dungeons using the Duty Finder (found it unreasonable to ask the same friends to do something 8 times in a row for me) just had me go back to WoW and try out 5.4 and get my old Arena / RBG team back together (not to mention the flex raiding for us as we no longer needed 15 unreliable people to join us).
If they fix the issue with moving funds (which caused problems in itself as people used it to send gil to other characters) by allowing you to mail to your own characters and limit the RMT spam somehow, I might make a return and continue working towards my original goal. I personally know someone who sold materials for relic items as well as selling Hard mode runs for hundreds of thousand of gil each. He let me in on some of his other methods, though I'm held in confidence as to not reveal them save for saying they weren't done in an illegal way. It's mainly just a case of the power gamers owning and controlling the economy, and the server not having enough existing funds (Legacy servers are still somewhat healthy from what I've heard and people are getting what they want fairly easily) or incoming gil to support multiple millionaires. That said, it's probably easy to decipher who has or hasn't obtained it in an illegal way. Though it still sucks for those who got banned for no reason.
I like how the devs are takeing the real world approach. If your store has counterfeit money: You don't get the money and 90% of the time your not getting back what you sold.
I still cant believe people legitimize there fortune with, I mine this and sell it on the market for this much thats how I made it.
UHHHHHHHHH the money would have never been there if it wasnt for the Gold sellers. You cant get rich off selling to counterfeiters which is why most places check large bills to make sure there not counterfeit in real life. Cause you will get F'd over.
Sure you can blame the RMTers but its kinda your fault why did you think players had all this money to buy everything you put on the market at a high price this early in the game. You just thought all these people who didnt want to mine or craft were just sitting on piles of money doing quests??? Come on now, you knew it was RMTed Gil. And if you didnt your naive or a mmo newb.
Fine, I hope sometime you try to do something well, you get screwed around for something you didn't do and can't control, and I further hope some clueless asshat is saying they're happy with your wasted time.
Do well???
"A more apt title, now that I have more information and my best educated guess has changed based on that new information, would be: SQUARE ENIX ISSUING BLANKET 72H BAN TO PLAYERS WITH AT LEAST 8M GIL WHILE THEY INVESTIGATE RMT. See the rest of the post below for more detail."
This is what you all are basing your rage on. Someones guess on what SE is doing.
Ever think that maybe those who were found buying RMTing and anyone they had a transaction with are the ones being investigated not just , you have lots of money. It just so happens that the majority who have lots of money earned it from selling items to RMTers. No one had that kind of Gil to buy all your price inflated items. Even from the posts here people say I gathered this and made this daily and sold it at this high price daily thats how I got it. Well no f'n 5h17 sherlock how do you think you did that. If the market wasnt saturated with illegaly earned Gil you wouldnt be able to run the market like some PvE mini-game.
I base my rage on the fact I don't bot or have real money transactions in this game and my account is still suspended.
"No one had that kind of Gil to buy all your price inflated items."
This is where every other part of your "I'm trying to be right" argument breaks down. No matter how many times you or anyone else repeats this as mantra it doesn't make it so.
You're offensive, don't realize it and can't help it, because you're somehow convinced you're right and bully-pulpiting some nameless, faceless "opponent" on the internet. I'm serious, am completely involved with the facts, and hurt by my loss of time.
You should go take a flying leap. Thanks. Bye.
Dont get mad cause im right. Thats how Real Life works to. You cant feign ignorance of a crime (not saying its a legit crime). The money you earned was from GIl that was gained thru RMT and they consider that a no no.
So instead of just banning those who RMT and saying oh well we fixed it but the economy is f**ked to bad for those who didnt earn money from the rampant RMTing. There trying to fix the economy (well I hope and guess). You might lose all the money that came from accounts that RMT and you wont get the items you sold to em.
And the fact that your hurt because of a video game. Seriously, its a game. Its not real, those items arnt real and neither was the money. You play games to have fun or relax by wasting time on something not important. If the time you used in game was precious well you could of used it on something that was important like Learn a real trade, Sell your goods on a real market, and make REAL money. Its like getting p155ed off in monopoly or the game of life. Im sure you would laugh if someone got mad because you had to stop playing monopoly mid game and take some of his hotels cause he was given to much money at the start.
Its just a game itll be there after there done with whatever they are doing. And you can make more items and more Gil because thats why you did it right? Because it was fun..... I hope so cause having 8 mil in a video games gives you 0 bragging rights.
Honestly is this your first MMO? Do you realize how people make lots of money in most cases? The game has been open long enough for people to legitimately earn millions by now. You keep equating lots of Gil to larger one off purchasers while ignoring one simple fact.
You do realize how many people are passing in and out of a server on a daily basis? How much is 100 gil x 100 sales? This could happen in mere hours in some cases depending on the game and crafting structure. People have been playing and making gil since open beta, there was no wipe.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson