October 4th – 17th +5 Skill Tomes...Really Turbine?

cagan

Title tells it all...

Remember how hard we worked to get those +3 tomes at release?

Remember how rare and difficult it was to find a +4 tome?

Now you can buy all the +5 tomes you want from the store...

I used to love how turbine did business and thats how I started LOTRO  and DDO, and spent a nice amount of money subscribing and buying some of the expansions (which were all horrible and not worth the money).

But I am just so disappointed the way they are handling business, I know their player numbers are dwindling, but whose fault is that?

I didnt log in to LOTRO for almost a year now and DDO 2-3 months ago. It is just the same thing over and over. They killed the community with wrong business plans.

Oain

sad....i was just about to go back to the game..but are you sure they were skill tomes?

flizzer

Almost every game does this type of thing.  Originally it takes lots of time and/or grind to get an item.   Over time it is made easier to allow new players or players who didnt care to join the grind originally.   I dont see anything untoward going on here.   I recently returned to LOTRO and playing the Rohan expansion to get ready for Helm's Deep and Im having a blast. 

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Aethaeryn

Originally posted by Dren_Utogi

O noes, your ego got bruised.. here's a tissue.  When players learn that what they worked for still retains it's value even as other players get it "easier" , guess what, your work still retains value, that is if you really cared about the game to begin with.

I get what you are saying but the point he is making is valid in my opinion if not very clear.  The cash shops have really gone to crap and they are selling more things to advance quicker etc. that go beyond convenience.  It doesn't take away anything for me in the game but it does make me wonder where it is headed next.  Like the OP I have not played either in about a year as i have seen this trend continue.

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Aethaeryn

Originally posted by Dren_Utogi

Originally posted by Aethaeryn

Originally posted by Dren_Utogi

O noes, your ego got bruised.. here's a tissue.  When players learn that what they worked for still retains it's value even as other players get it "easier" , guess what, your work still retains value, that is if you really cared about the game to begin with.

I get what you are saying but the point he is making is valid in my opinion if not very clear.  The cash shops have really gone to crap and they are selling more things to advance quicker etc. that go beyond convenience.  It doesn't take away anything for me in the game but it does make me wonder where it is headed next.  Like the OP I have not played either in about a year as i have seen this trend continue.

So you would rather have the game bleed , then actually make money ? It is not personal , it is a company generating revenue fo new content. Fact the fact, Turbine has been amazing at what they are delivering content wise.

Exactly. . it is not personal.  I don't like the direction so I am not playing.  If it does better the way it is going great.  I loved the game and hope it does well.  

 

Also suggesting that the game would not make money seems a little extreme.  I am guessing they are more worried about it making as much or more money than before.  It is a business and I have no problem with that.  This happens to most games at some point. . it starts to dry up and they experiment with making it work.   So many games though have made changes to try to get more money out of an existing player base or shrinking player base that leads the game to lose more players and the vicious cycle continues.  

rutaq

Originally posted by Dren_Utogi

O noes, your ego got bruised.. here's a tissue.  When players learn that what they worked for still retains it's value even as other players get it "easier" , guess what, your work still retains value, that is if you really cared about the game to begin with.

Although you are correct that "your work still retains value",  the value is greatly diminished.  It is the job of the Game Developers to respect the effort of the playerbase if they want to retain intelligent players that value the time investment and effort they put into playing and supporting the game.

 

All games evolve and grow and it is a tricky balancing act between respecting the achievements of older players and trying to make the game "Accessible" to new players that may feel intimidate by what they view as a "Huge Grind" to catch up to the older player.

 

It is a bit nearsighted to write it off as an ego problem, it is more a reaction to the market collapse in game when the "required" effort to progress is devalued.  

For the more competitive players is would be like being awarded a medal after training for months and running the Boston Marathon and then a couple years later they decide to just sell the medal online and not even have people run Marathons anymore.  

 

 

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rutaq

Originally posted by Dren_Utogi

 

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Originally posted by rutaq

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Originally posted by Dren_Utogi O noes, your ego got bruised.. here's a tissue.  When players learn that what they worked for still retains it's value even as other players get it "easier" , guess what, your work still retains value, that is if you really cared about the game to begin with.

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Although you are correct that "your work still retains value",  the value is greatly diminished.  It is the job of the Game Developers to respect the effort of the playerbase if they want to retain intelligent players that value the time investment and effort they put into playing and supporting the game.   All games evolve and grow and it is a tricky balancing act between respecting the achievements of older players and trying to make the game "Accessible" to new players that may feel intimidate by what they view as a "Huge Grind" to catch up to the older player.   It is a bit nearsighted to write it off as an ego problem, it is more a reaction to the market collapse in game when the "required" effort to progress is devalued.   For the more competitive players is would be like being awarded a medal after training for months and running the Boston Marathon and then a couple years later they decide to just sell the medal online and not even have people run Marathons anymore.      

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Its all in yout mind over analysing. It;s a video game ,a nd if something as basic as someone else taking the easy road annoys you that much, you really werent playing that game for the right reasons. Trust me when I say this, Ive seen in Age of Conan. People continue to believe that their elitest mentality is the only way for "everyone" to play the game, when in fact they are simpley trying to project their mentality on a community who doesn't share that elitest (ego) outlook and simply do what the game was intended to , be fun.

 

  

  Hmm,  you are bit presumptuous making claiming that someone else is playing wrong.   Everyone plays for their own reasons and their own fun.   I think you would be shocked that many people play for reasons beyond what you see as simple fun. 

 

 Just look at the outrage and impact cheating can have in a game,  if your " who cares it's only as a game for fun" view was so common and shared by the greater community than why would anyone care if someone else found a way hack/change the game to amass huge amounts of gold, levels, resources, gear,skill points or avoid the challenge of a Raid Boss and kill them with no effort or risk.

 

 

avalon1000

Originally posted by Dren_Utogi

 

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Originally posted by rutaq

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Originally posted by Dren_Utogi O noes, your ego got bruised.. here's a tissue.  When players learn that what they worked for still retains it's value even as other players get it "easier" , guess what, your work still retains value, that is if you really cared about the game to begin with.

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Although you are correct that "your work still retains value",  the value is greatly diminished.  It is the job of the Game Developers to respect the effort of the playerbase if they want to retain intelligent players that value the time investment and effort they put into playing and supporting the game.   All games evolve and grow and it is a tricky balancing act between respecting the achievements of older players and trying to make the game "Accessible" to new players that may feel intimidate by what they view as a "Huge Grind" to catch up to the older player.   It is a bit nearsighted to write it off as an ego problem, it is more a reaction to the market collapse in game when the "required" effort to progress is devalued.   For the more competitive players is would be like being awarded a medal after training for months and running the Boston Marathon and then a couple years later they decide to just sell the medal online and not even have people run Marathons anymore.      

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Its all in yout mind over analysing. It;s a video game ,a nd if something as basic as someone else taking the easy road annoys you that much, you really werent playing that game for the right reasons. Trust me when I say this, Ive seen in Age of Conan. People continue to believe that their elitest mentality is the only way for "everyone" to play the game, when in fact they are simpley trying to project their mentality on a community who doesn't share that elitest (ego) outlook and simply do what the game was intended to , be fun.

 

Agreed...it's just a game folks. If you don't want to play it then don't.

rutaq

Originally posted by avalon1000

Agreed...it's just a game folks. If you don't want to play it then don't.

 

Sure,   I think that is basically what the OP and others in the thread are doing.  They came on MMORPG to post that they aren't happy and why and then stop playing.  

I'm sure this isn't the first time you came across a post like this since you joined in 2008.  "We" MMORPG posters are a chatty and opinionated bunch  :P

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rutaq

Originally posted by Dren_Utogi

So whats the problem ? If everyone plays for their own way,,, why does it matter there was a sale last month ? Cheating is completely different beast and a new thread,....

The base problem is that all players were not treated equally.  To enjoy content, some players were required to progress / acquire / build something and later other players were NOT required to and could buy it on the cash shop.

  It isn't all that  uncommon and that is why we see threads like this every once in a while when people complain and quit.

 I myself don't play DDO but if you truly can't figure out why it's a problem I recommend talking to the OP.

 

cagan

So to answer a few questions....

Am I upset the new people dont have to work hard and buy these tomes?

Well, +5 tomes are still pretty rare to come by, they drop from raid bosses and after all my time spent playing I got only 1 on 2 of my chars, for a total of 2. Now imagine WOW selling the latest raid loot on cash shop, would that upset people? Selling +2 +3 to be competitive is one thing and selling one of the rarest  raid loots is another thing..

 

It is the business model they are following in the last 5-6 months I am complaining. It somehow smells like "lets sell all that we can before the ship sinks". It is a small but dedicated community in DDO, not millions or even hundreds of thousands like in other MMO's. I would say a player base of 50000 people at most. (Millions if you count the created accounts that played for 1 week and left the game). They started taking advantage of this little close knit community that are paying to keep the game alive (like the latest thing they did to TRUE RESURRECTION)...need to TR? buy from the store..

they doubled/tripled the time to grind to buy a TR stone...

 

Goorlot

I'm still waiting for the +10 stat tomes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!