I was being nostalgic as hell the other day and went back looking through my old posts here on MMORPG (As im sure most of us MMO nerds do). When I came across what was literally my first post ever on this forum over 6 years ago.
And in it I layed down some basic ideas for how I thought an ES MMO would work and of course was immeditely flamed for my outlandishly realistic suggestions on how he game would play out. Here's how different things our for the current ESO compared to the one I wanted.
-First Person combat is an afterthought
-Fewer Weapon Options than Skyrim
-Limited Continent travel because of FactionRestrictions
-No word on social areas at all
-Quests are typical, go here kill X fashion with the option to pick up a loaf of bread off the table (OOOOO)
- And of course With the recent news about no House of Earthly Delights, literally everything I wanted in the game isnt included and instead the game turned out like this:
So those are your bullet points? That's it? No wonder you got flamed.
First of all, FPV is widely unpopular with the vast majority of the gaming population. I personally find it less immersive than TPV, due to not have peripheral vision as well as issues with your hands, not being able to see your body, and it usually just looks horrible in just about any game that it's in. I played Oblivion and Skyrim in mostly first-person as well. What is the last popular first-person MMO? Exactly.
Your second point is 100% false, and that's due to a lack of educating yourself about the topic at hand. There are far more weapon options in TESO.
You call it limited. I call it restrictive. Either way, non-faction gameplay would have been my preference. You will however, be able to go to almost all areas available in the game, no matter your race or alliance. You just have to wait until the appropriate level.
Social areas, like what? I'm assuming you mean like the bar in Age of Conan, where you can brawl people? Inns and taverns will be in the game, and I'm sure a more appropriate version of your whorehouse that you can't get over will make it in the game at some point, despite what they have said.
Quests are not typical, again, pointing towards your lack of knowledge of the topic. Some will be, and I've yet to see anyone give us an example of a worthy replacement to the kill x quests. In fact, most quests will be found by simply discovering them on your travels, similar to how the Elder Scrolls games actually work. There will be points of interest. Random dynamic quests, along with your scripted quests that seem dynamic, but really aren't. Then there will also be anchor public quests, and let's not forget to mention all of the dungeon quests and the three faction PvP. The Elder Scrolls has always been about content. You are simply just misinformed.
You guys really need to get over the fact that they aren't interested in putting a whorehouse into the game. Of all things that you can complain about, it has been one of the biggest topics on these forums lately.
OP, did you even read what this guy wrote? Its relatively accurate and it seems as if you are not acknowledging what may be a little gap in your knowledge base of what the game is actually implementing. The only thing I would have wrote that he didn't is that whether the first person was a first thought or a second thought, what difference does it make if it was very well implemented and from all of the feedback from the gaming conventions and leaked beta, this seems to have been implemented rather well. Same with questing. Most of the feedback has been that it isn't your standard questing for every quest that we see in competing games like Rift, AOC, etc.
I do agree with just one point though, that I would like to see how they are organizing social areas so it isnt a lobby game like TOR was, but give it time..Im sure they are getting good feedback out of the beta.
What makes your opinion more valid? Because apparently the reason mine isnt valid is because im not a MMO developer so I dont have the knowledge to make an MMO.
Are you a MMO developer? What give you this authority that your denying from me?
Can you really not see the giant gaping hole in your logic?
To me this is just plain logic based upon developer and player discussions.
Please direct me to these player/developer discussions. In fact Id like you to specfically link me to the ESO developers EVER talking to the fans about features such as Three Faction's, Race Locked Factions, Seemless worlds vs Linear Worlds, First person combat, in fact Id like you to show me anywhere the developers of ESO went to the fans other than when it was leaked the Hero engine was used and then they backtracked and said it wasnt. They dont care about the players, they care about the money and your being naive as hell as well as lying to me and to everyone else when you say there is a dialouge going on between players and developers of MMO's. Ive never once seen an MMO developer put a core element at the hands of the players aside from maybe EQN's roundtable but we have yet to see whether that is actually being utilized in game. Sorry man, im calling you out Sorvath because you obviously are very comfortable defending developers when they do nothing to defend you.
Originally posted by Latronus
First of all. They didn't go with you ideas because companies are in business to make a profit and clearly they have focus groups and studies that support the direction they are going. I'm not saying you are wrong but if the numbers just don't support you ideas then they won't go that way.
Second, You do realize that most games that go F2P make MORE money they did with a sub and that's why everyone is moving that direction. It saved DDO and if you refer back to the first point, it comes full circle. Sure most of the games that have gone F2P would have closed their doors if they wouldn't have, but now most games are launching F2P. If that model was only successful to prolong a game then we wouldn't be seeing games such as Neverwinter be F2P from day 1. It's the new flavor of the month it seems and sadly, there are people that won't play a game unless its F2P. I hate that model myself because most of the games seem shallow, but the industry sees $$$$ there, so that's where they are going.
Now, if you really are passionate about your ideas, then why not get into the business. You may not be a programmer or a graphics artist but there are management positions... I doubt any major companies are surfing MMORPG.com forums looking for new ideas.
You just contradicted yourself big time.
So they have focus groups, yet DDO had to launch F2P to save itself? Obviously those focus groups arent working as intended then are they?
Im going to state one more thing to all of you, that you need to read.
STOP TRUSTING DEVELOPERS EVERY CHOICE!
They are not making the game FOR THEMSELVES they are making a game for a fanbase, at least in the recent MMO climate because 90% of MMO's are IP based now.
If they are creating an MMO from scratch lore and all we cant say shit, but if they are messing with a predefined lore and world then as fans we have the right to complain and to try and change things. Im not going to give that right up so you can sleep a little easier thinking these rich developers are making the right choices for you!
Question the developers, its not rude, its your right as a consumer.
What makes your opinion more valid? Because apparently the reason mine isnt valid is because im not a MMO developer so I dont have the knowledge to make an MMO.
Are you a MMO developer? What give you this authority that your denying from me?
Can you really not see the giant gaping hole in your logic?
To me this is just plain logic based upon developer and player discussions.
Please direct me to these player/developer discussions. In fact Id like you to specfically link me to the ESO developers EVER talking to the fans about features such as Three Faction's, Race Locked Factions, Seemless worlds vs Linear Worlds, First person combat, in fact Id like you to show me anywhere the developers of ESO went to the fans other than when it was leaked the Hero engine was used and then they backtracked and said it wasnt. They dont care about the players, they care about the money and your being naive as hell as well as lying to me and to everyone else when you say there is a dialouge going on between players and developers of MMO's. Ive never once seen an MMO developer put a core element at the hands of the players aside from maybe EQN's roundtable but we have yet to see whether that is actually being utilized in game. Sorry man, im calling you out Sorvath because you obviously are very comfortable defending developers when they do nothing to defend you.
If they are creating an MMO from scratch lore and all we cant say shit, but if they are messing with a predefined lore and world then as fans we have the right to complain and to try and change things. Im not going to give that right up so you can sleep a little easier thinking these rich developers are making the right choices for you!
Question the developers, its not rude, its your right as a consumer.
I can't I'm talking about my discussions with them. Unless someone was following me around with a camera getting every bit there really isn't very much to show.
Additionally, you might think with your heart and emotions (which for the most part can be a good thing) but that's pretty muc where it ends.
I listed my reasons and you never tried to rebut any of them. All you want to do is say "It's possible because I want it to be".
And I would say "that's great, now go make your game and prove me wrong".
Your other issue is that you have put yourself into the "developers are evil" box. Developers aren't evil, they are people who want to do good work and have to deal with a lot of forces to get their work done. If anyting I'm always more on the developers' side than the players' side because they are working with very concrete realities. Money, investors desires, player desires, limited resources, limited time, realizing that design decisions aren't working, etc.
Players? i want I want I want.
Which is fine because if they want it they want it. However, at my age I've learned that you can have/want anything you want you just can't have/want everything you want.
So sure, players can say "I want this" but that doesn't mean that developers can deliver (which we have seen) or that they can deliver exactly in the way players want.
As far as good game design = box sales, there is a truth to that. If you make the very bestest game in the world with out of the box thinking and never before done ideas and it can't sustain itself then you've failed.
And you've failed the few players who signed on for the project. It's so easy for players to say "I want and if you dont' give me I'm moving on". And that's their right. But then developers are stuck up a creek and they lose money and they lose jobs and studios close.
So sure, if a game fails you you move on. If it fails the developers they lose their livelyhood.
And, as I am actually in a creative field, I am very used to people liking my work, not liking/hating my work, and know full on the reality of not creating something that speaks to the masses.
So yeah, bring on the games that the masess don't like, I'll probably like them. But if they can't sustain themselves they are a failure.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
So because Im not agreeing with the Majority I dont know how MMO design works?
How is that a valid Argument Sorvath, seriously, tell me how that makes any sense other than you being a dick?
Hi, welcome to MMORPG.com
This is a place where people come to complain about MMOs or rabidly defending blindly. Where you are free to cry about how the genre is stagnant in one thread and then in another bash anyone attempting to think differently. A place where in one thread you MOAN about how the genre isn't moving forward while in the next cry about how great (enter 10+ year old MMO game here) was and wish someone would remake it.
You need to understand that TESO is going to be using DaoC's framework so you will get NO WHERE at all with former DaoC players who actually think that this thing is going to bring back their rose colored dreams. The same thing happened during the making of SWTOR...didn't matter what anyone was pointing out, ITS STAR WARS MAN AND I WANT MAH SWGS BACK!
That turned out well didn't it...Using a popular IP only turns out well when those making it has a tie to the main IP.
Ultima Online
World of Warcraft
They did well because they were created by people a part of the main IP. SWTOR was created by people with no tie to KOTOR other than it being owned by EA. they tried to make a game for both KOTOR and MMO players and made something that was weak on both fronts. Its the same situation with TESO only worse, those making it are trapped in a 13 year old MMO box. So exepct a half-assed ES game and a weaker MMO heavily focused on center staged PvP that brings nothing new to the genre.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
There is a game that offers pretty much the combat you want called PlanetSide 2. There are probably also games that offer your whorehouse (although I *really* don't want to know about them). Nothing you're suggesting is really all that original, most of it exists in one game or another. I know you want all that and "Elder Scrolls too!" but hey, I would like a total sandbox Elder scrolls MMO but neither of us speak for anyone other than ourselves and I'm sure the devs have good reasons for going with the design they did and I can see a surprising amount of posiitives along with a few negatives in their design. Life is about compromise. Sure you can suggest things, but unless you have hundreds of millions of dollars to finance the game yourself , you will never be able to order big corporations to custom-make products to your speciifications.
I was being nostalgic as hell the other day and went back looking through my old posts here on MMORPG (As im sure most of us MMO nerds do). When I came across what was literally my first post ever on this forum over 6 years ago.
And in it I layed down some basic ideas for how I thought an ES MMO would work and of course was immeditely flamed for my outlandishly realistic suggestions on how he game would play out. Here's how different things our for the current ESO compared to the one I wanted.
-First Person combat is an afterthought
-Fewer Weapon Options than Skyrim
-Limited Continent travel because of FactionRestrictions
-No word on social areas at all
-Quests are typical, go here kill X fashion with the option to pick up a loaf of bread off the table (OOOOO)
- And of course With the recent news about no House of Earthly Delights, literally everything I wanted in the game isnt included and instead the game turned out like this:
Actually, if you were to follow the game you'd know that they will have a lot more weapon choices than Skyrim. In all honesty, Skyrim had barely any compared to say; Morrowind. There will be dropped weapons, unique weapons, several new types of weapons made from material that wasn't seen in Skyrim. (Mithril will probably be in there) There will be crafted weapons that match the racial crafting tree that you follow (t.ex. Bosmeri iron Armour and Orcish iron Armour will look completely different.) and that's without mentioning that they've been thinking about adding tints and that there will be weapon naming. Not to mention how much more expansive the crafting system will be compare to skyrim or any of the previous TES:O titles.
The first person combat was probably not an afterthought but rather a low priority. They were talking about it when they announced the game but they hadn't gotten to work with it and most likely wouldn't add it unless their fans wanted it really badly. And that we did, and now the first person combat looks pretty amazing. They've put a lot of work into it.
They will allow you to explore all areas of Tamriel. Although some of them will be locked for future content in the same way you couldn't travel to Northrend or Outlands in Vanilla WoW. But you will be able to experience all the zones on one character.
On the social side you will be able to trade, chat, duel, RP and join guilds. There will be a ton worth of emotes to use and that's about it. Pretty much all you can do with social mechanics without forcing people into being social, which would be silly.
The quests are pretty much the same as they were in Skyrim. A lot of those quests were about just fetching an item in a random dungeon. Not all of them, but most. I'm sure that most quests will actually be five times better than any radiant AI generated quests from Skyrim.
Maybe if you politely mailed them about what you want in the game they'll consider it. Especially if a lot of people agree with you. But most of the things you want are most likely nigh impossible to implement in a MMO like the crazy physics. Sacrifices have to be made. But by all means, I won't be missing you when I'm playing TES:O.
Originally posted by jiveturkey12 Originally posted by lizardbonesOriginally posted by jiveturkey12Originally posted by SovrathOk, so you made a prediction of things you think it would have, people told you that wouldn't happen and they were correct/. I'm not quite sure what your point is but apparently it's more along the lines of "you don't know how mmo design works" (from one of the posters in your thread). Now, looking over your list i can say that some of those things were just pie in the sky thinking.More weapons? Why? Because you want them? I wouldn't be adding more weapons if I was a designer. I would be capitalizing on the weapons in the TES lore.more elaborate first person combat with people dying from an arrow in the head? Where is that coming from other than the game in your mind? One shotting a player because someone is hidden and can easily aim and hit the head isn't great design. All that will devolve into is people hiding in shadows and sniping each other until they all get bored and frustrated.You will already get summerset isle and the other areas. Of course I think all of us would want them all to be completely fleshed out but there is only so much they can do in a few years.The House of Earthly delights should be there (so I agree) but doesn't necessarily have to be for "adults". They could just white wash it and have clothed women dancing seductively and leave it at that.
So because Im not agreeing with the Majority I dont know how MMO design works?How is that a valid Argument Sorvath, seriously, tell me how that makes any sense other than you being a dick? You are not an MMORPG designer, working in the industry as a designer, so it's a given that you don't know how MMORPG design really works. The fact that you are in this forum, instead of designing MMORPGs means you don't really know how it works. That applies to most of the people in these forums, aside from the few people in the industry who actually respond to our posts. Sovrath does have a point though. What is the point of your OP? Many, many people have predicted many, many things here, and some of it has been spot on, and some of it hasn't. What is your point? Is it that ESO is being designed wrong, in a manner that you don't like or that your predictions were wrong? It's not possible to take a position on your OP because it doesn't seem to take a position so much as just describe history. What is your point? Once we have that, we can get down to arguing pointless over it. ** Point, pointy point pointerson. pointpointpointpointpointpoint Just had to get that out of my system. My point is that my list of wants for an ES game were Slim and Realistic in the context of ES lore and gameplay, an that even 6 years ago, before the game was even announced, I was told "This will never happen".
AGAIN, Not by Developers, as you were trying to point out earlier, but by other people who also dont design MMO's for a living.
Yet you and Sorvath and all those other people who DONT design MMO's think that you can use the Burden of Proof on me and my ideas, its Elitism. And its brought on by the companies and fed into the drowning pool that these forums are and always have been.
An elite group of developers and publishers who say what can and cant be done within the confines of an MMO and then you just sit there and Agree with them, taking an idea that EVEN THOUGH IT MAKES SENSE WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THE GAME, is rubbish because I dont know how to develop an MMO, because I dont have millions of dollars and years of programming experiance I can never understand what a fan of the series would want in an online extension of that world.
Im not saying my idea is better, Im saying its more in line with what I personally thought an ES game would be, and even though my ideas were far from outlandish considering the ES series and the capablities of the modern MMO, they were thrown out for a proposed few dollar signs and security for a failing pre-exsisting MMO paradigm.
Me? I just wanted you to clarify the point of your post. Now that you have, I would say this.
Those people who told you your ideas weren't going to happen were right. You have no idea why your ideas weren't implemented. Given that we don't have a complete picture of the game, it's possible that some of your ideas will be implemented, and it just hasn't been revealed yet.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I'm glad this game is being designed by people who do that for a living.
But hey, it's the age of the backseat driver. The OP is par for the course these days.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I'm glad this game is being designed by people who do that for a living.
But hey, it's the age of the backseat driver. The OP is par for the course these days.
The people who designed SWTOR do it for a living as well. What are you saying his backseat driving is inferior to your hyper positive back seat driving? I mean at least his post was not a pointless direct insult.
Lets just simplify it, besides texture skins and, location names and races. What else does the game have in common at all with Elder scrolls, forget about an ES mmo, with the game in general. Because if they designed a single player game anything remotely like this no one would play it unless they converted it into a FPS with gravity boots and laser cannons to combat the boredom.
Elitism isn't really a bad thing if you are a member of the elite.
But in this case it really is a case of people who are able to more accurately able to see how the market really works vs the OP and his dream scenarios.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm glad this game is being designed by people who do that for a living.
But hey, it's the age of the backseat driver. The OP is par for the course these days.
The people who designed SWTOR do it for a living as well. What are you saying his backseat driving is inferior to your hyper positive back seat driving? I mean at least his post was not a pointless direct insult.
Lets just simplify it, besides texture skins and, location names and races. What else does the game have in common at all with Elder scrolls, forget about an ES mmo, with the game in general. Because if they designed a single player game anything remotely like this no one would play it unless they converted it into a FPS with gravity boots and laser cannons to combat the boredom.
Lol. Did I hit a raw nerve? Yes, pros do fail sometimes... Last time I looked 29 out of 30 teams don't win the World Series.
II have my preferences in MMO content and I've played lots of them. Still, I'm not a designer any more than a baseball manager.
i suggest you pick something you actually like and go hang in your happy place for a while. I just don't get you guys who hate this game... every day... several times a day.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I'm glad this game is being designed by people who do that for a living.
But hey, it's the age of the backseat driver. The OP is par for the course these days.
The people who designed SWTOR do it for a living as well. What are you saying his backseat driving is inferior to your hyper positive back seat driving? I mean at least his post was not a pointless direct insult.
Lets just simplify it, besides texture skins and, location names and races. What else does the game have in common at all with Elder scrolls, forget about an ES mmo, with the game in general. Because if they designed a single player game anything remotely like this no one would play it unless they converted it into a FPS with gravity boots and laser cannons to combat the boredom.
Lol. Did I hit a raw nerve? Yes, pros do fail sometimes... Last time I looked 29 out of 30 teams don't win the World Series.
II have my preferences in MMO content and I've played lots of them. Still, I'm not a designer any more than a baseball manager.
i suggest you pick something you actually like and go hang in your happy place for a while. I just don't get you guys who hate this game... every day... several times a day.
Well in this particular case the "pros" are modeling the game after a team that never made it to the finals much less the world series. DAOC was and is a niche paradigm that could never go toe to toe with Star Wars Galaxies in its prime. But that in itself is not what is so bad, what is bad is that DAOC is nothing like Elder Scrolls. If you buy this and enjoy it thats fine, but its an Elder Scrolls game in name only and thats the overall point OP was trying to make. It does not make any sense even market wise since 3 million people purchased Skyrim in the first two days and this DAOC clone will be lucky to have 300k subs at its peak.
Not many people hate Elder Scrolls, but plenty of people hate DAOC and cloning it and renaming it wont make it any less boring. Trying to get this many people to digest DAOC again is like spray painting a chicken green and telling a Vegan that its lettuce.
I was being nostalgic as hell the other day and went back looking through my old posts here on MMORPG (As im sure most of us MMO nerds do). When I came across what was literally my first post ever on this forum over 6 years ago.
Don't want to kill your dreams but ppl asked to multiplayer in TES game since at least Morrowind, idea of MMO game was already talked in like 2006 around Oblivion so at least a year before your post. Also you claim that you predicted that there will be MMORPG in TES world. All I see there is a group of wishes what that game should be to appeal to you. While TESO in this or other shape was already pretty much a fact that it will happen sooner or later.
And in it I layed down some basic ideas for how I thought an ES MMO would work and of course was immeditely flamed for my outlandishly realistic suggestions on how he game would play out. Here's how different things our for the current ESO compared to the one I wanted.
-First Person combat is an afterthought
With that I agree totally. If not that then at least DF approach perhaps.
-Fewer Weapon Options than Skyrim
-Limited Continent travel because ofFactionRestrictions
Well if that means it will work same as i.e. in WAR (loading screen between any two zones) then definitely agreed. Although if whole area for single factio is let's say size of Kalimdor then this should be really little problem.
-No word on social areas at all
I can agree that some mechanics can help with creating of social hubs however creation itself should be up to players
-Quests are typical, go here kill X fashion with the option to pick up a loaf of bread off the table (OOOOO)
So basically as most TES quests. You just didn't mention another type: sneak around and remain undetected.
- And of course With the recent news about no House of Earthly Delights, literally everything I wanted in the game isnt included and instead the game turned out like this:
As i already said any kind of social hub should be decision up to players.
Comments
OP, did you even read what this guy wrote? Its relatively accurate and it seems as if you are not acknowledging what may be a little gap in your knowledge base of what the game is actually implementing. The only thing I would have wrote that he didn't is that whether the first person was a first thought or a second thought, what difference does it make if it was very well implemented and from all of the feedback from the gaming conventions and leaked beta, this seems to have been implemented rather well. Same with questing. Most of the feedback has been that it isn't your standard questing for every quest that we see in competing games like Rift, AOC, etc.
I do agree with just one point though, that I would like to see how they are organizing social areas so it isnt a lobby game like TOR was, but give it time..Im sure they are getting good feedback out of the beta.
There Is Always Hope!
Please direct me to these player/developer discussions. In fact Id like you to specfically link me to the ESO developers EVER talking to the fans about features such as Three Faction's, Race Locked Factions, Seemless worlds vs Linear Worlds, First person combat, in fact Id like you to show me anywhere the developers of ESO went to the fans other than when it was leaked the Hero engine was used and then they backtracked and said it wasnt. They dont care about the players, they care about the money and your being naive as hell as well as lying to me and to everyone else when you say there is a dialouge going on between players and developers of MMO's. Ive never once seen an MMO developer put a core element at the hands of the players aside from maybe EQN's roundtable but we have yet to see whether that is actually being utilized in game. Sorry man, im calling you out Sorvath because you obviously are very comfortable defending developers when they do nothing to defend you.
You just contradicted yourself big time.
So they have focus groups, yet DDO had to launch F2P to save itself? Obviously those focus groups arent working as intended then are they?
Im going to state one more thing to all of you, that you need to read.
STOP TRUSTING DEVELOPERS EVERY CHOICE!
They are not making the game FOR THEMSELVES they are making a game for a fanbase, at least in the recent MMO climate because 90% of MMO's are IP based now.
If they are creating an MMO from scratch lore and all we cant say shit, but if they are messing with a predefined lore and world then as fans we have the right to complain and to try and change things. Im not going to give that right up so you can sleep a little easier thinking these rich developers are making the right choices for you!
Question the developers, its not rude, its your right as a consumer.
I can't I'm talking about my discussions with them. Unless someone was following me around with a camera getting every bit there really isn't very much to show.
Additionally, you might think with your heart and emotions (which for the most part can be a good thing) but that's pretty muc where it ends.
I listed my reasons and you never tried to rebut any of them. All you want to do is say "It's possible because I want it to be".
And I would say "that's great, now go make your game and prove me wrong".
Your other issue is that you have put yourself into the "developers are evil" box. Developers aren't evil, they are people who want to do good work and have to deal with a lot of forces to get their work done. If anyting I'm always more on the developers' side than the players' side because they are working with very concrete realities. Money, investors desires, player desires, limited resources, limited time, realizing that design decisions aren't working, etc.
Players? i want I want I want.
Which is fine because if they want it they want it. However, at my age I've learned that you can have/want anything you want you just can't have/want everything you want.
So sure, players can say "I want this" but that doesn't mean that developers can deliver (which we have seen) or that they can deliver exactly in the way players want.
As far as good game design = box sales, there is a truth to that. If you make the very bestest game in the world with out of the box thinking and never before done ideas and it can't sustain itself then you've failed.
And you've failed the few players who signed on for the project. It's so easy for players to say "I want and if you dont' give me I'm moving on". And that's their right. But then developers are stuck up a creek and they lose money and they lose jobs and studios close.
So sure, if a game fails you you move on. If it fails the developers they lose their livelyhood.
And, as I am actually in a creative field, I am very used to people liking my work, not liking/hating my work, and know full on the reality of not creating something that speaks to the masses.
So yeah, bring on the games that the masess don't like, I'll probably like them. But if they can't sustain themselves they are a failure.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Hi, welcome to MMORPG.com
This is a place where people come to complain about MMOs or rabidly defending blindly. Where you are free to cry about how the genre is stagnant in one thread and then in another bash anyone attempting to think differently. A place where in one thread you MOAN about how the genre isn't moving forward while in the next cry about how great (enter 10+ year old MMO game here) was and wish someone would remake it.
You need to understand that TESO is going to be using DaoC's framework so you will get NO WHERE at all with former DaoC players who actually think that this thing is going to bring back their rose colored dreams. The same thing happened during the making of SWTOR...didn't matter what anyone was pointing out, ITS STAR WARS MAN AND I WANT MAH SWGS BACK!
That turned out well didn't it...Using a popular IP only turns out well when those making it has a tie to the main IP.
Ultima Online
World of Warcraft
They did well because they were created by people a part of the main IP. SWTOR was created by people with no tie to KOTOR other than it being owned by EA. they tried to make a game for both KOTOR and MMO players and made something that was weak on both fronts. Its the same situation with TESO only worse, those making it are trapped in a 13 year old MMO box. So exepct a half-assed ES game and a weaker MMO heavily focused on center staged PvP that brings nothing new to the genre.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
OP,
There is a game that offers pretty much the combat you want called PlanetSide 2. There are probably also games that offer your whorehouse (although I *really* don't want to know about them). Nothing you're suggesting is really all that original, most of it exists in one game or another. I know you want all that and "Elder Scrolls too!" but hey, I would like a total sandbox Elder scrolls MMO but neither of us speak for anyone other than ourselves and I'm sure the devs have good reasons for going with the design they did and I can see a surprising amount of posiitives along with a few negatives in their design. Life is about compromise. Sure you can suggest things, but unless you have hundreds of millions of dollars to finance the game yourself , you will never be able to order big corporations to custom-make products to your speciifications.
Anyone that cries: Developers are "evil" and "greedy", instantly loses credibility in my book.
Sorry.
Wake up and smell the coffee, it is a real world out there.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Actually, if you were to follow the game you'd know that they will have a lot more weapon choices than Skyrim. In all honesty, Skyrim had barely any compared to say; Morrowind. There will be dropped weapons, unique weapons, several new types of weapons made from material that wasn't seen in Skyrim. (Mithril will probably be in there)
There will be crafted weapons that match the racial crafting tree that you follow (t.ex. Bosmeri iron Armour and Orcish iron Armour will look completely different.) and that's without mentioning that they've been thinking about adding tints and that there will be weapon naming. Not to mention how much more expansive the crafting system will be compare to skyrim or any of the previous TES:O titles.
The first person combat was probably not an afterthought but rather a low priority. They were talking about it when they announced the game but they hadn't gotten to work with it and most likely wouldn't add it unless their fans wanted it really badly. And that we did, and now the first person combat looks pretty amazing. They've put a lot of work into it.
They will allow you to explore all areas of Tamriel. Although some of them will be locked for future content in the same way you couldn't travel to Northrend or Outlands in Vanilla WoW. But you will be able to experience all the zones on one character.
On the social side you will be able to trade, chat, duel, RP and join guilds. There will be a ton worth of emotes to use and that's about it. Pretty much all you can do with social mechanics without forcing people into being social, which would be silly.
The quests are pretty much the same as they were in Skyrim. A lot of those quests were about just fetching an item in a random dungeon. Not all of them, but most. I'm sure that most quests will actually be five times better than any radiant AI generated quests from Skyrim.
Maybe if you politely mailed them about what you want in the game they'll consider it. Especially if a lot of people agree with you. But most of the things you want are most likely nigh impossible to implement in a MMO like the crazy physics. Sacrifices have to be made. But by all means, I won't be missing you when I'm playing TES:O.
"I think we can expect of THE ELDER SCROLLS ONLINE
10 Races- Imperial, Breton, Nord, Argonian, Redguard, High Elf, Wood Elf, Dark Elf, Kajiit, and of course Orc!"
Umm all of these are in game, with the Imperials as NPC.
"-Quests are typical, go here kill X fashion with the option to pick up a loaf of bread off the table (OOOOO)"
Safe to say, you haven't played. You don't even know what is in the current game and what is planned in development.
You are not an MMORPG designer, working in the industry as a designer, so it's a given that you don't know how MMORPG design really works. The fact that you are in this forum, instead of designing MMORPGs means you don't really know how it works. That applies to most of the people in these forums, aside from the few people in the industry who actually respond to our posts. Sovrath does have a point though. What is the point of your OP? Many, many people have predicted many, many things here, and some of it has been spot on, and some of it hasn't. What is your point? Is it that ESO is being designed wrong, in a manner that you don't like or that your predictions were wrong? It's not possible to take a position on your OP because it doesn't seem to take a position so much as just describe history. What is your point? Once we have that, we can get down to arguing pointless over it. ** Point, pointy point pointerson. pointpointpointpointpointpoint Just had to get that out of my system.
My point is that my list of wants for an ES game were Slim and Realistic in the context of ES lore and gameplay, an that even 6 years ago, before the game was even announced, I was told "This will never happen".
AGAIN, Not by Developers, as you were trying to point out earlier, but by other people who also dont design MMO's for a living.
Yet you and Sorvath and all those other people who DONT design MMO's think that you can use the Burden of Proof on me and my ideas, its Elitism. And its brought on by the companies and fed into the drowning pool that these forums are and always have been.
An elite group of developers and publishers who say what can and cant be done within the confines of an MMO and then you just sit there and Agree with them, taking an idea that EVEN THOUGH IT MAKES SENSE WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THE GAME, is rubbish because I dont know how to develop an MMO, because I dont have millions of dollars and years of programming experiance I can never understand what a fan of the series would want in an online extension of that world.
Im not saying my idea is better, Im saying its more in line with what I personally thought an ES game would be, and even though my ideas were far from outlandish considering the ES series and the capablities of the modern MMO, they were thrown out for a proposed few dollar signs and security for a failing pre-exsisting MMO paradigm.
Me? I just wanted you to clarify the point of your post. Now that you have, I would say this.
Those people who told you your ideas weren't going to happen were right. You have no idea why your ideas weren't implemented. Given that we don't have a complete picture of the game, it's possible that some of your ideas will be implemented, and it just hasn't been revealed yet.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I'm glad this game is being designed by people who do that for a living.
But hey, it's the age of the backseat driver. The OP is par for the course these days.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
The people who designed SWTOR do it for a living as well. What are you saying his backseat driving is inferior to your hyper positive back seat driving? I mean at least his post was not a pointless direct insult.
Lets just simplify it, besides texture skins and, location names and races. What else does the game have in common at all with Elder scrolls, forget about an ES mmo, with the game in general. Because if they designed a single player game anything remotely like this no one would play it unless they converted it into a FPS with gravity boots and laser cannons to combat the boredom.
But in this case it really is a case of people who are able to more accurately able to see how the market really works vs the OP and his dream scenarios.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Lol. Did I hit a raw nerve? Yes, pros do fail sometimes... Last time I looked 29 out of 30 teams don't win the World Series.
II have my preferences in MMO content and I've played lots of them. Still, I'm not a designer any more than a baseball manager.
i suggest you pick something you actually like and go hang in your happy place for a while. I just don't get you guys who hate this game... every day... several times a day.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Well in this particular case the "pros" are modeling the game after a team that never made it to the finals much less the world series. DAOC was and is a niche paradigm that could never go toe to toe with Star Wars Galaxies in its prime. But that in itself is not what is so bad, what is bad is that DAOC is nothing like Elder Scrolls. If you buy this and enjoy it thats fine, but its an Elder Scrolls game in name only and thats the overall point OP was trying to make. It does not make any sense even market wise since 3 million people purchased Skyrim in the first two days and this DAOC clone will be lucky to have 300k subs at its peak.
Not many people hate Elder Scrolls, but plenty of people hate DAOC and cloning it and renaming it wont make it any less boring. Trying to get this many people to digest DAOC again is like spray painting a chicken green and telling a Vegan that its lettuce.
Don't want to kill your dreams but ppl asked to multiplayer in TES game since at least Morrowind, idea of MMO game was already talked in like 2006 around Oblivion so at least a year before your post. Also you claim that you predicted that there will be MMORPG in TES world. All I see there is a group of wishes what that game should be to appeal to you. While TESO in this or other shape was already pretty much a fact that it will happen sooner or later.
With that I agree totally. If not that then at least DF approach perhaps.
Well if that means it will work same as i.e. in WAR (loading screen between any two zones) then definitely agreed. Although if whole area for single factio is let's say size of Kalimdor then this should be really little problem.
I can agree that some mechanics can help with creating of social hubs however creation itself should be up to players
So basically as most TES quests. You just didn't mention another type: sneak around and remain undetected.
As i already said any kind of social hub should be decision up to players.