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Vampires and Werewolves - A Golden Opportunity
Lorska
Member UncommonPosts: 74
I will try to keep this as brief as I can with an analogy.
In pre-NGE Star Wars Galaxies, at the beginning Jedi were mysterious, powerful, and permadeath. It fit the lore of the game perfectly, as in the Star Wars universe of that time period, the Jedi were being hunted and it made sense for them to be both powerful but cautious for other players to discover them. All my friends and I were fine with this. It made sense. I didn't care if I never became a Jedi, I was more into being a gun-toting space cowboy anyway. I just liked to be able to even see them once in a while. It had a great WOW!! factor to it, like being star-struck by seeing a celebrity at a restaurant or what have you. They later changed it to the watered down, everyone gets a plastic participation trophy, everyone can be a Jedi. After all, why should we deny everyone to be a HERO!!?? Etc....
Zenimax has a golden opportunity with vampires/werewolves to create a fantastic experience for players. I sincerely hope they don't screw this up, but given the track record of most big budget games, I fear we will most likely get the watered down version....everyone gets to be a vamp or a werewolf....they'll have a few abilities on a cooldown timer that will make no sense. It will essentially be a cooldown skill, and boring....because everyone will have one or the other.
But if they wanted to break the borefest mold....they could do something much greater. I agree with Bill Murphy's article points on how vampires/werewolves need to be both the "Superhuman Feeling" and the "Make it Uncommon" parts, and I think I have a few simple ways to get that done.
1) Make them both significantly more powerful than normal characters in certain ways. This makes sense.
2) Balance that factor out by making life MUCH more dangerous to them. Do this by first of all making anyone willing to step over to the dark side now be playing in hardcore mode, that being "permadeath." On top of that, give them both their respective weakness that just makes sense. For vampires: sun = death. For werewolves, they can walk in the light or the dark but the moment they transform (and thereby gain their powers), all NPCs that would normally be friendly go KOS on the werewolf.
This would make playing a supernatural character both very exciting and at the same time limit their rarity. Zenimax could further tweak their rarity by raising or lowering the level a character must achieve before they would be "strong enough" to survive the "curse" so to speak. In other words, they could make it so that only max level characters could become a vampire/werewolf, so that player might have more trepidation in deciding to take the plunge (and thereby risking permadeath.)
If any of you think this would be a bad idea, I'd like to hear some reasoning as to why, and what you think would be a better system.
Comments
How exactly does having a server full of jedi fit in with the lore of the SWG era. You had Obi Wan and Yoda in exile, and Luke was in training. Where did all those other Jedi come from? They were all wiped out after episode 6.
Vampires and Werewolves in this game will be watered down, so every one can access them. Just like the Jedi once the NGE hit. Everyone had one.
I'm sorry if I somehow gave the impression that I wanted a server full of Jedi in SWG. My entire post is essentially saying the opposite. I hated it when everyone and their mother became a Jedi in SWG, and I will hate it when every ESO player is either a vampire or a werewolf and as such they no longer are special or mean anything to anyone.
Permadeath in MMOs would be a hard sell.
I like the idea of making werewolves and vampires rare but I would implement it differently: anyone can be one but if you get killed while changed, you loose the ability and that character can never be one again. There might be a lot at first but they'd become pretty rare over time without having to resort to something as unpopular as permadeath.
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― CD PROJEKT RED
This is a pretty good alternative to the harshness of permadeath. I'm all for alternative solutions to keeping them rare.
I think your suggestions will not bode well at all for the player base. Sun = death for vamps is very burdensome for those with very little time on their hands. A KOS elements just does not make sense in an MMO. Sure these ideals are great for Skyrim but most certainly not in an MMO. Permadeath is a real big NONO. Even the most appropiate games like DDO veer away from permadeath mechanics and that is stictly on player integritity where there are permadeath groups/guilds.
I'm not very thrilled over the whole vampire and werewolf ideal. I don't agree with these "supernatural" elements, this isn't Twilight. What about those that don't want to be a vampire or werewolf? They are at a disadvantage now?
Simply put, what your asking for are RP elements which will never see the light of day in any mainstream MMO. Just settle with the disappointment that the werewolf and vampire perks will be a cooldown based mechanic along with any passive mechanics.
Definitely with you on the idea of having Vampires and Werewolves being rare. I'd like the experience to become a vampire or werewolf to also be unique per person and changing, so once one random Bob becomes Bob werewolf - he can't share his path and allow the server to follow route.
"On top of that, give them both their respective weakness that just makes sense." There is already precedent set up for the various weaknesses and strengths throughout the Elder Scrolls games. As to NPC reactions, yes most all of them should run in fear or turn to attack either one of these.
I think the game needs more sandbox elements to pull off a decent vampire/werewolf integration. Haven't played it much, so I'll wait and see for more.
To make vampirisme and werewolves rare... keep it what it is, a curse , just add more negatives then possitives and people will try and do anything possible to get rid of that curse..
Its a curse, it cant be compared to being a Jedi...
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
How about vampire and werewolf skill trees exping reeeeaally slow and if you die your skill tree will reset so you have to start over again. That would separate old powerful vamps from common trash
and yes I agree, just put enough negatives there and it might be fine.
I was going to write up lengthy post very similar to the OP but decided it would be a waste of time, due to TES:O being the next watered down themepark.
However, having a very large tradeoff, a VERY overpowered class that can be permanently killed would be beyond fucking awesome.
There are a myriad of ways you could approach it, such as a only Werewolf can permakill a Vampire and vice versa, or permakilling requires a very hard to acquire weapon/item, such as a enchanted 'holy' stake for vampires and a pure silver weapon for Werewolves.
There has to be a trade off for being a powerful character. So sun = death, probably not, but sun = very weak should be the case. The KOS should also be the case for all NPCs for the undead. Weakness for werewolves after turning and a limit to how long they can be in werewolf form should also be there.
They have added in undead hunter skills with the fighters guild. So there will be counters to the power of those who chose to go the undead route. Too many undead in PvP? Make sure you have joined the fighters guild and worked on the undead counter skills. Then go kill some undead.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
I don't ever see anything that gives power but gives you some extreme weakness to ever make in into an MMO. Companies want revenue and having some sort of weakness to something will only please the minority, the vast majority will be wanting every single thing that makes their character "uber" while never getting any sort of weakness.
Tradeoffs I can see in niche MMOs but ESO is being designed for mainstream themepark audience. Like the ideals of consequences with being a sparkly emo or a hairy abomination but just don't ever seeing it making into a themepark MMO due to the fact that the majority of the audience will QQ and 99.999% of the companies are too scared to upset their consumers.