I have to agree with this. I payed for World of Warcraft for well over 4.5 years because despite not having new content released every month, I knew that should I continue subscribing I would be rewarded with quality content, freedom from "pay to win" and full access to all the game offered via effort (not money).
Maybe it is just be personally, but when I subscribe to an MMO, I like that after paying that 15 bucks, everything in the game is gated behind effort; not credit cards...
...says the guy that spent anywhere from 60-180 dollars on expansions, above the cost of the monthly sub.
I already stated I was just fine doing that. The service, quality and refinement that I received for that money was far above ANYTHING I have experienced in a F2P game.
I would much rather have payed that amount on expansions where everything was gated behind player effort rather than spend
$300 on XP boots
$40 on content unlocks
$30 on currency in game
$20 on cosmetic items
etc.
XP boosts are players choice, not "gated". You are not required to purchase XP, drop, or gold boosting items to get full enjoyment of the game.
While there certainly are F2P games that have gated content, I don't play those. I have access to the full game from the moment I download it, without having to spend one dime; or I don't waste my time playing it. I have played a "freemium" where after you agree to the monthly sub, you then get full access.
I don't know of any publisher F2P or P2P where you can legally purchase in game currency. I'm not disputing that there are, just that none of the reputable ones do that. Gold buying is the reason why gold farmers are in games. If publishers allowed gold purchasing, gold farmers would virtually disappear from MMOs.
I spend less than $100 per year on games. I can't afford more than that. So as you can see the $12-$15 per mo sub is out of my reach. I don't demand top graphics from the games I play, pretty doesn't necessarily translate to a good game. Poor service happens regardless of payment model. Just as there are P2P games that have poor service, there are F2P games with good service. Neither are exclusively good or bad. As far as refinement, just how many P2P games were withdrawn from service due to bug riddled clients? I can think of at least two. Sure not a huge number, but remember; people payed up front for that "quality". With only a few highly scripted youtube videos (that didn't show actual gameplay) to judge the game by. Getting a bug riddled client is a result of the developer rushing the product to market without adequate testing. Not a result of the choice of payment model.
By designing only the bare bones, you are not making a world, you are making a rat run. Create small strips of land with little hubs, concentrate your players minds on levelling and the cheese (achievements/item drops).
Introduce a fruit machine style gambling game called lock boxes or some such. MMO's don't have to be covered by online gambling laws so that's going to be a bonanza.
By designing pay to win elements in the cash shop, from items which make you level faster to items which make you more powerful in PvP.
Getting a lot of interest at launch, it is free and we are still stupid enough to think that if something is free it is going to be good.
It relies on a lot of players making a small contribution, the idea the baulk of players pay nothing is wrong.
It relies on some players making a very big contribution. F2P apologists call these players whales, those of us who see F2P for what it is call them addicts.
By designing only the bare bones, you are not making a world, you are making a rat run. Create small strips of land with little hubs, concentrate your players minds on levelling and the cheese (achievements/item drops).
Introduce a fruit machine style gambling game called lock boxes or some such. MMO's don't have to be covered by online gambling laws so that's going to be a bonanza.
By designing pay to win elements in the cash shop, from items which make you level faster to items which make you more powerful in PvP.
Getting a lot of interest at launch, it is free and we are still stupid enough to think that if something is free it is going to be good.
It relies on a lot of players making a small contribution, the idea the baulk of players pay nothing is wrong.
It relies on some players making a very big contribution. F2P apologists call these players whales, those of us who see F2P for what it is call them addicts.
No free 2 play actually has to concentrate on making the game fun and enjoyable in order to get people to pay. P2P gets your money first and then leave you hanging.
That's what we are told in spite of reality.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
I like it because it removes the hefty barrier to entry and forced play/pay which limits my ability to get value out of other games. If I'm paying $15 a month then more then likely I will not be playing anything else to ensure I get my value out of that subscription. Not only that, no other gaming genre forces players to pay to play.
You can do a lot to increase the fun factor of a F2P game without overburdening it with P2W scenarios. One of the games I currently play now is considered P2W by many but I have not spent more then $35 per character (3 characters) to get him up to snuff. You don;t need certain items but because they exist people think they have to have them.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Obviously it works to some degree or it wouldn't be so popular.
But, IMO, you have to ask, who does it work for?
It works for companies that can't make a damn game worth a sub, for one.
It works for companies who want to appeal to players that don't want to commit or who want to flit between many games, and as such, it works well for those types of players who don't want a monthly fee for something they may not even play every month.
IMO, if you have a quality MMORPG, and your game is worth playing for years, then F2P is a crappy model, because it makes for a much lower quality gaming experience. In fact, I really doubt any serious players would stay with a FP2 game for years and years the way we used to with the classic/older MMORPGs.
My personal problem with F2P for MMORPGs is that it inevitably involves some kind of pay 2 win, or worse, outright facilitating of cheating. MMORPGs at the heart are all about acquiring crap or achieving crap, and if you can grease the wheels with cash or worse, just BUY the rewards for cash, then the system is BROKEN. Even worse are games like GW2 or Rift where you can effectively buy in-game currency for cash - something that is usually the realm of RMT and considered cheating. When did cheating become not only ok, but something for the hosting companies to skim a profit off of? Lame. Lamer still is people who condone this. Lamer even more are the losers who participate in this. Play to win. Not pay to win. If you can't be bothered to actually play, then...don't play?
F2P is horrible for MMORPGs if you're a player that gives a crap. It's great if you're casual and don't give a crap, or want to cheat your way thru games with cash.
Some people may be confused and think F2P is to benefit you, the player. It's not. It's all about profits for companies - corporations and business people don't do stuff to do anybody favors but themselves. They don't care about your quality of game experience. They care about profit margins. The spin F2P to make you think it's some kind of great thing for players when, in fact, the quality of gameplay is far lower due to the incessant cash shop in your face thing, the pay 2 win, and the blatant cheaters and losers buying their way thru games.
F2P is great for a game like LOL or other similar games, where they can be profitable without EVER doing pay 2 win. Selling skins, extra heroes out of the 100+ (nobody gives a crap whether you buy a hero or not in LOL, because it has nothing to do with winning - all the crap you need to WIN comes ONLY thru gameplay (and/or from your own skill)). Big difference. F2P, fluff crap for players in a game where NO FLUFF CRAP COMES FROM gameplay. Loot doesn't drop in LOL. There are no boss fights. There is no crafted gear, no mats to gather, no world drop epics. There's nothing a scumbag can do with cash to shortcut the game.
In MMORPGs, the cash angle ALWAYS undermines the game. P2W or blatant cheating. It allows useless and lazy non-players to buy their way thru the game. They can buy those world drop epics. They can buy mats from the in-game economy with their cash obtained in-game currency. They can shortcut the game by obtaining items without earning them.
F2P in MMORPGs may work for some people, but I hate it. I want games where everybody earns their accomplishments by playing the game, not by throwing cash at the game. I much prefer subs where EVERYBODY pays the same amount, always, and everybody has equal potential to succeed, and where success is based on how you play, without influence based on how much you're willing to pay.
So yeah, F2P works, for the greedy bean counting schmucks who don't care about players, or gaming, and only care about profits. It works for players who'd rather pay their way than earn their way via their gameplay. IMO, it does not work for people who want the highest quality gaming, particularly in a genre like MMORPGs where it's all about playing to achieve.
There has never been an MMORPG F2P system that didn't undermine the game. They'll sell stuff like mounts, outfits, boosters, whatever - stuff they SAY you don't need and that isn't pay to win, but ultimately ALL stuff that you obtain in an MMORPG *should* be tied to rewards for gameplay. That mount you just bought for $10? Should be a drop or quest reward or something you earn - not buy. Same for outfits - should be crafted, dropped - something. So while you often don't NEED the crap they sell for cash, it's still usually cool stuff (has to be cool or nobody would buy it) that people want, and that should be EARNED BY PLAYING, not PAYING.
If devs made real MMORPGs worth playing and paying a sub for, we wouldn't need F2P anyways. The old/classic MMORPGs are still sub-based. They are games you can play for years easily and always have been. The newer MMORPGs that are designed more like weak and easy single player MMORPGs with optional grouping and minimal endgame are what has driven the genre to F2P - because those games are not worth a sub. Stop trying to cater so much to casuals who don't want to sub and design for real MMORPG players and maybe you wouldn't need to consider F2P?
To me, F2P for MMORPGs is a sign or admission of failure. It's saying, our game isn't worthy of a sub and you're not likely to want to play it in any meaningful way other than casually. The best MMORPGs aren't casual. Good MMORPGs by their nature are not casual. If people can't handle them - bummer. Some people can't handle chess either and it's one of the best games in the history of mankind. Nobody said, lets dumb down chess to make it more accessible. You play or you don't play. Simple.
How do you rate success for MMORPGs? Would you say the games like EQ, DAoC, WoW - the ones that have never waivered from having subs and that have been going for years are a success? What about just about or all MMORPGs since WoW that started sub-based and had to switch to F2P - you know, all the glorified single player games that ended up not having the balls of the classics. Failures because they had to go F2P? Limited success because they all paid for their dev, had sexy releases and decent numbers before slipping into F2P sewage?
A lot of the MMORPGs that slip to F2P will say they're doing better financially than they were before F2P (I guess they take their lowest point after release as the point of comparison)...so they can stay afloat and/or profit...but...how's the gameplay? How do players like it? Do you have lots of players sticking around consistently? Do you have community? Or do you still have server merges, a flighty population that comes and goes, mostly goes, until the next micro dose of content, then things are busy for a few days, rinse and repeat?
This is why a game like EQN, that should be a gangbuster supernova of a game carrying on the name of the godfather of MMORPGs, looks pathetic to me, for the simple reason that they're PLANNING to be F2P - which is like saying up front, we know we can't design a game good enough for you to sub to, so we surrender in advance. Whatever cool things they come up with will be tainted by the stink of F2P hooks, and that is truly sad. EQN doesn't even look like an MMORPG with the way they're going consolitis/simplified/dumbed down as hell/arcady but at the same time they are trying to innovate, especially with content, and that could be something special...but to me it won't matter much as long as cheaters can pay their way thru the game, and if there's F2P, in an MMORPG, there will be lower quality players and rampant pay 2 win cheating going on.
Pretty much bang on. The model works more for lazy developers who can't make a game worth a subscription. It's the main reason I haven't been playing MMOs much at all this last year. I used to be big into LOTRO since launch for instance. But the community has slowly but surely eroded since freeplay hit. And you pay ridiculous at times expansion pack prices. Just felt like it wasn't worth the time since.
or have a server that is sub based due to devs controlling aspects of the game to make it more dynamic.
F2p costs more than b2p for the player, and makes it for more transactions to remove every useful restriction.
You just wrote that an item mall costs more than an item mall with an up front box fee. I don't think you thought that one through.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
You just wrote that an item mall costs more than an item mall with an up front box fee. I don't think you thought that one through.
I don't think much if any of the critics have thought this through. I bet many are merely venting their frustrations on anything different from what they are used to.
There's little point correcting them because they have already made up their mind. Only thing that could change their mind is to play a good F2P game (and there are plenty). Catch is, they refuse to even touch them. They are too proud to even try.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
There's little point correcting them because they have already made up their mind. Only thing that could change their mind is to play a good F2P game (and there are plenty). Catch is, they refuse to even touch them. They are too proud to even try.
That is ok. It is not like the f2p market needs them.
Plus, most people here already have their minds made up. I don't see anyone changing his/her mind here. It is just about forum pvp, no more and no less.
It works for sure for certain games but we all know the huge disadvantages of games based on a F2P concept.
There is just one thing, in the meanwhile the ingame shops getting bigger and bigger and it feels not like playing a game but rather a too obvious money making machine. Such games have no soul and I would not even want to play them for free.
It works for sure for certain games but we all know the huge disadvantages of games based on a F2P concept.
There is just one thing, in the meanwhile the ingame shops getting bigger and bigger and it feels not like playing a game but rather a too obvious money making machine. Such games have no soul and I would not even want to play them for free.
Interestingly, right now I can name two F2P games that are moving in the direction opposite to that which you ascribe F2P cash shops going. They aren't in OBT in NA markets yet. But one which is released in both Japan and Hong Kong has almost exclusively all cosmetic items in it's cash shop. And this is from a developer that has a reputation for monetizing quite a lot of it's games. The JP version will also be doing a crossover with a currently running anime where you can buy outfits based on characters from that anime. (A common practice in JP MMOs, gotta keep the otaku happy.)
Optimist: the glass is half full
Pessimist: the glass is half empty
Engineer: you've used the wrong tool for the application
The level of condescension from the F2P apologists on here has reached new heights, how do they put up with us telling them F2P is rubbish? Have a roll on another lock box I guess, its that sort of "gameplay" that is the hallmark of the great F2P revenue model.
Come on! You are all but saying F2P spawned out from hell. How can anyone take that seriously?
You are asking to be patronized.
And you seem to be saying that F2P easymode gameplay, P2W and gambling were created in heaven. While I don't think either of us thinks F2P belongs to the divine or infernal even in metaphor it is the blinkers you have to wear not to even question this model that amazes me. As F2P evolves nothing they do gameplay wise makes you question them, not the lock box gambling, nothing. And I think nothing every will. Given that how do you expect us to take you seriously?
Come on! You are all but saying F2P spawned out from hell. How can anyone take that seriously?
You are asking to be patronized.
Some people need it to be more than just " I don't like it" That's where you get the "we" and , "many people" examples from. Others go even farther and need to imply ( or just out right say it ) there must be something wrong with anyone that doesn't agree with me.
I did have to laugh at the f2p easymode comment....considering the game that really pushed that style of content into the lime light came from the most successful pay to play game ever.
Come on! You are all but saying F2P spawned out from hell. How can anyone take that seriously?
You are asking to be patronized.
And you seem to be saying that F2P easymode gameplay, P2W and gambling were created in heaven. While I don't think either of us thinks F2P belongs to the divine or infernal even in metaphor it is the blinkers you have to wear not to even question this model that amazes me. As F2P evolves nothing they do gameplay wise makes you question them, not the lock box gambling, nothing. And I think nothing every will. Given that how do you expect us to take you seriously?
Can you link to his posts that gave you that impression? It might make it a lot easier to understand where you are coming from if we can see what you're interpreting in that manner. It will allow us to change how we are explaining these things so that you're not getting such a wildly inaccurate view of our stance here.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
F2P works for me, at least. (at least while understanding that even in the F2P game there are things worth paying for).
I play LOTRO now and then, and in this case F2P fits my needs perfectly. Yes it's a F2P game (no monthly sub), but I found that there are several things worth paying for (expansions, quest packs, other small stuff) that make sure the game does not feel like some limited demo.
So - over last 2(?) years - I've spent about 60USD on the game, And what I have - is a premium MMORPG, that I can play anytime, almost as unrestricted as subscribers do. There is no need to worry about subscription (which is perfect, since I never know if I'll play it for a week straight, or will skip it for a months or two), I can return into LOTRO anytime and play it to the full.
Come on! You are all but saying F2P spawned out from hell. How can anyone take that seriously?
You are asking to be patronized.
And you seem to be saying that F2P easymode gameplay, P2W and gambling were created in heaven. While I don't think either of us thinks F2P belongs to the divine or infernal even in metaphor it is the blinkers you have to wear not to even question this model that amazes me. As F2P evolves nothing they do gameplay wise makes you question them, not the lock box gambling, nothing. And I think nothing every will. Given that how do you expect us to take you seriously?
You expect everyone to take you seriously on a forum talking about games?
Sure .. question f2p. It works for me .. it apparently works for a large market (otherwise it won't be so popular). But question away. I am sure some business mode deity will shine down a light and answer your questions.
F2P is a method to generate income from video games. If it didn't work, it wouldn't generate income, and the games that used it would cease to exist. That means it must be working, because those games continue to exist, and some of them even thrive using a F2P financial setup.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
F2P is a method to generate income from video games. If it didn't work, it wouldn't generate income, and the games that used it would cease to exist. That means it must be working, because those games continue to exist, and some of them even thrive using a F2P financial setup.
I like this answer. It seems logical.
+1
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
F2P is a method to generate income from video games. If it didn't work, it wouldn't generate income, and the games that used it would cease to exist. That means it must be working, because those games continue to exist, and some of them even thrive using a F2P financial setup.
I like this answer. It seems logical.
+1
Given that it is taking shares away from traditional sub-only methods, i will say it works better than a sub-only model too.
Come on! You are all but saying F2P spawned out from hell. How can anyone take that seriously?
You are asking to be patronized.
And you seem to be saying that F2P easymode gameplay, P2W and gambling were created in heaven. While I don't think either of us thinks F2P belongs to the divine or infernal even in metaphor it is the blinkers you have to wear not to even question this model that amazes me. As F2P evolves nothing they do gameplay wise makes you question them, not the lock box gambling, nothing. And I think nothing every will. Given that how do you expect us to take you seriously?
Can you link to his posts that gave you that impression? It might make it a lot easier to understand where you are coming from if we can see what you're interpreting in that manner. It will allow us to change how we are explaining these things so that you're not getting such a wildly inaccurate view of our stance here.
You like to poke sticks through the bars at the zoo don't you.
Come on! You are all but saying F2P spawned out from hell. How can anyone take that seriously?
You are asking to be patronized.
And you seem to be saying that F2P easymode gameplay, P2W and gambling were created in heaven. While I don't think either of us thinks F2P belongs to the divine or infernal even in metaphor it is the blinkers you have to wear not to even question this model that amazes me. As F2P evolves nothing they do gameplay wise makes you question them, not the lock box gambling, nothing. And I think nothing every will. Given that how do you expect us to take you seriously?
Can you link to his posts that gave you that impression? It might make it a lot easier to understand where you are coming from if we can see what you're interpreting in that manner. It will allow us to change how we are explaining these things so that you're not getting such a wildly inaccurate view of our stance here.
You like to poke sticks through the bars at the zoo don't you.
I would say that is a very measured, and nice response to someone who is going out of his way to be patronizing.
Comments
XP boosts are players choice, not "gated". You are not required to purchase XP, drop, or gold boosting items to get full enjoyment of the game.
While there certainly are F2P games that have gated content, I don't play those. I have access to the full game from the moment I download it, without having to spend one dime; or I don't waste my time playing it. I have played a "freemium" where after you agree to the monthly sub, you then get full access.
I don't know of any publisher F2P or P2P where you can legally purchase in game currency. I'm not disputing that there are, just that none of the reputable ones do that. Gold buying is the reason why gold farmers are in games. If publishers allowed gold purchasing, gold farmers would virtually disappear from MMOs.
I spend less than $100 per year on games. I can't afford more than that. So as you can see the $12-$15 per mo sub is out of my reach. I don't demand top graphics from the games I play, pretty doesn't necessarily translate to a good game. Poor service happens regardless of payment model. Just as there are P2P games that have poor service, there are F2P games with good service. Neither are exclusively good or bad. As far as refinement, just how many P2P games were withdrawn from service due to bug riddled clients? I can think of at least two. Sure not a huge number, but remember; people payed up front for that "quality". With only a few highly scripted youtube videos (that didn't show actual gameplay) to judge the game by. Getting a bug riddled client is a result of the developer rushing the product to market without adequate testing. Not a result of the choice of payment model.
F2P works by:
By designing only the bare bones, you are not making a world, you are making a rat run. Create small strips of land with little hubs, concentrate your players minds on levelling and the cheese (achievements/item drops).
Introduce a fruit machine style gambling game called lock boxes or some such. MMO's don't have to be covered by online gambling laws so that's going to be a bonanza.
By designing pay to win elements in the cash shop, from items which make you level faster to items which make you more powerful in PvP.
Getting a lot of interest at launch, it is free and we are still stupid enough to think that if something is free it is going to be good.
It relies on a lot of players making a small contribution, the idea the baulk of players pay nothing is wrong.
It relies on some players making a very big contribution. F2P apologists call these players whales, those of us who see F2P for what it is call them addicts.
No free 2 play actually has to concentrate on making the game fun and enjoyable in order to get people to pay. P2P gets your money first and then leave you hanging.
That's what we are told in spite of reality.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
I like it because it removes the hefty barrier to entry and forced play/pay which limits my ability to get value out of other games. If I'm paying $15 a month then more then likely I will not be playing anything else to ensure I get my value out of that subscription. Not only that, no other gaming genre forces players to pay to play.
You can do a lot to increase the fun factor of a F2P game without overburdening it with P2W scenarios. One of the games I currently play now is considered P2W by many but I have not spent more then $35 per character (3 characters) to get him up to snuff. You don;t need certain items but because they exist people think they have to have them.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
No it doesn't.
Its better to be b2p. Without restrictions.
They can have a cash shop for pets.
or have a server that is sub based due to devs controlling aspects of the game to make it more dynamic.
F2p costs more than b2p for the player, and makes it for more transactions to remove every useful restriction.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
Pretty much bang on. The model works more for lazy developers who can't make a game worth a subscription. It's the main reason I haven't been playing MMOs much at all this last year. I used to be big into LOTRO since launch for instance. But the community has slowly but surely eroded since freeplay hit. And you pay ridiculous at times expansion pack prices. Just felt like it wasn't worth the time since.
You just wrote that an item mall costs more than an item mall with an up front box fee. I don't think you thought that one through.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I don't think much if any of the critics have thought this through. I bet many are merely venting their frustrations on anything different from what they are used to.
There's little point correcting them because they have already made up their mind. Only thing that could change their mind is to play a good F2P game (and there are plenty). Catch is, they refuse to even touch them. They are too proud to even try.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
That is ok. It is not like the f2p market needs them.
Plus, most people here already have their minds made up. I don't see anyone changing his/her mind here. It is just about forum pvp, no more and no less.
It works for sure for certain games but we all know the huge disadvantages of games based on a F2P concept.
There is just one thing, in the meanwhile the ingame shops getting bigger and bigger and it feels not like playing a game but rather a too obvious money making machine. Such games have no soul and I would not even want to play them for free.
Interestingly, right now I can name two F2P games that are moving in the direction opposite to that which you ascribe F2P cash shops going. They aren't in OBT in NA markets yet. But one which is released in both Japan and Hong Kong has almost exclusively all cosmetic items in it's cash shop. And this is from a developer that has a reputation for monetizing quite a lot of it's games. The JP version will also be doing a crossover with a currently running anime where you can buy outfits based on characters from that anime. (A common practice in JP MMOs, gotta keep the otaku happy.)
Optimist: the glass is half full
Pessimist: the glass is half empty
Engineer: you've used the wrong tool for the application
Come on! You are all but saying F2P spawned out from hell. How can anyone take that seriously?
You are asking to be patronized.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
And you seem to be saying that F2P easymode gameplay, P2W and gambling were created in heaven. While I don't think either of us thinks F2P belongs to the divine or infernal even in metaphor it is the blinkers you have to wear not to even question this model that amazes me. As F2P evolves nothing they do gameplay wise makes you question them, not the lock box gambling, nothing. And I think nothing every will. Given that how do you expect us to take you seriously?
Some people need it to be more than just " I don't like it" That's where you get the "we" and , "many people" examples from. Others go even farther and need to imply ( or just out right say it ) there must be something wrong with anyone that doesn't agree with me.
I did have to laugh at the f2p easymode comment....considering the game that really pushed that style of content into the lime light came from the most successful pay to play game ever.
Here is a recent presentation from someone in the industry:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/203965/Video_FreetoPlay_the_Wrong_Way_in_Age_of_Empires_Online.php
This is particularly interesting for those of us that saw a previous version, and can clearly see how this has progressed.
Can you link to his posts that gave you that impression? It might make it a lot easier to understand where you are coming from if we can see what you're interpreting in that manner. It will allow us to change how we are explaining these things so that you're not getting such a wildly inaccurate view of our stance here.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
F2P works for me, at least. (at least while understanding that even in the F2P game there are things worth paying for).
I play LOTRO now and then, and in this case F2P fits my needs perfectly. Yes it's a F2P game (no monthly sub), but I found that there are several things worth paying for (expansions, quest packs, other small stuff) that make sure the game does not feel like some limited demo.
So - over last 2(?) years - I've spent about 60USD on the game, And what I have - is a premium MMORPG, that I can play anytime, almost as unrestricted as subscribers do. There is no need to worry about subscription (which is perfect, since I never know if I'll play it for a week straight, or will skip it for a months or two), I can return into LOTRO anytime and play it to the full.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
You expect everyone to take you seriously on a forum talking about games?
Sure .. question f2p. It works for me .. it apparently works for a large market (otherwise it won't be so popular). But question away. I am sure some business mode deity will shine down a light and answer your questions.
F2P is a method to generate income from video games. If it didn't work, it wouldn't generate income, and the games that used it would cease to exist. That means it must be working, because those games continue to exist, and some of them even thrive using a F2P financial setup.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I like this answer. It seems logical.
+1
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Given that it is taking shares away from traditional sub-only methods, i will say it works better than a sub-only model too.
You like to poke sticks through the bars at the zoo don't you.
I would say that is a very measured, and nice response to someone who is going out of his way to be patronizing.
Plus, poking is fun.