Anti social players cry for games that can be done solo. Developers make soloable games. The antisocial player is then happy and plays said games.... for about 3 months then quits.
Why is that... do you think?
I think I can explain. The solo player I belive likes to solo not neccessarily to avoid human contact, because if they didnt want that, they can play single player games. They must, after all, have someone who they can boast their accomplishments to. But how is it something to boast about or give a sense of accomplishment, if everyone can do it easily? Theres no satisfaction in it. They do not feel special, and get bored.
Honestly, if these players truly wanted a solo player experience, they would play solo player games. Right? Its because they want do accomplish difficult goals in a game, by themselves, and have bragging rights to other players.. They want to show off to an audience(the other players) The games being made for them today do not give them that. Only the old MMO's like EQ1, do that. EQ1 was a very hard game to play solo, and soloing successfully in that game, really was something to brag about.
This is one of the saddest parts about current MMOs.
They stopped being mMo, leaving out the multiplayer part. To archive this target they usually go the "we need to make sure noone can screw up, so make everything fool proof and make it even easier, just to make sure"-route.
Wake me up if a new and real MMO shows up again, ill be playing games from the 90s untill then.
What really sucked was we could see it coming when playing EQ in early 2000s.....The complaints started coming and SOE slowly started making the game more solo friendly....Then WoW released and the solo MMO experience exploded.....
The communities have only themselves to blame for the lack of group content. The reason? Simple ... there as been an ever increasing amount of horrifically behaved gamers in MMOs over the years. The creation of the Instant queues and random finders only made this worse. Interactions with people, more often than not, ends up bitter and unpleasant.
MMOs have ALWAYS had a lot of solo content, dating back to M59, UO and EQ. But there was also group content, involving an element of patience. These days, patience is lost; folks want to rush to end-game- you cannot have a landscape built around group content and still offer the wanted dash to MAX level.
RPGs were at its best pre-raid mentality ... when it was built around the small group; leaving the larger content- such as EQ's old Plane of Fear, etc to folks who can gather the people ... but you never just stood around in queues for it. EQ offered ALOT to do.
If MMOs are to become RPG Multi-player games again, they will have to focus far more on the journey to max level and offer more things to do at MAX level than waiting for unlocks and queues.
I will state again, Developers go where the money is ... so the gaming community only has itself to blame for the state of current MMOs.
This is one of the saddest parts about current MMOs.
They stopped being mMo, leaving out the multiplayer part. To archive this target they usually go the "we need to make sure noone can screw up, so make everything fool proof and make it even easier, just to make sure"-route.
Wake me up if a new and real MMO shows up again, ill be playing games from the 90s untill then.
All risk , no reward, all work, no play. Please enjoy yourself. You should try playing Tera Online if you like working your face off for months and not getting anywhere. It's great for building "character" no pun intended.
Groups are slow, unpredictable and force me to wait around. I can't control other people, whether I've known them for a while or not. They might even be better at the game than me. But they sure as Hell can't keep up with me. "LET'S GO!"
I'm not alone either, this is why MOST people can't stand grouping. The other half of the population has downs syndrome and can't move, click, shoot fast enough.
I think the saddest thing about this article, is that it is absolutely and totally, all true.
MMO's these days do seem to treat the second M in MMO as being totally optional and not actually a requirement in any way. So much so that many players these days just don't have the patience to be part of a group, its all 'me me me, and now now now' .. but its a successful game model, so i don't see it changing anytime soon
/rawr U R So Right, damn those antisocial people I hate them so!
The favorite topic of the Social Misanthropist.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I think the saddest thing about this article, is that it is absolutely and totally, all true.
MMO's these days do seem to treat the second M in MMO as being totally optional and not actually a requirement in any way. So much so that many players these days just don't have the patience to be part of a group, its all 'me me me, and now now now' .. but its a successful game model, so i don't see it changing anytime soon
I dont see how its sad.
And if you stop and really think about what you just wrote you'll realize youre wrong.
MMO's nowadays actually give people the choice to solo or group play. As a matter of fact MMO's now make grouping so much easier now than they ever had before.
Group finders, quest finders, instance finders, public quests. And every MMO released has plenty of group content along with solo content.
A good example is SWtOR. That game has plenty of "heroic" areas where you have to group with other players to beat the content. And the rewards for doing so are pretty damn good. Sure you can go back at a higher level and complete it, but by that time you out leveled the rewards.
Its not a design or game flaw if people choose not to group to access that content with someone else. Its a choice.
Its just ridiculous when people complain about others having the choice not to play with you.
I mean come on people, if you really need someone that bad to play with, go buy a dog.
"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."
It's a dilemma. If the game forces group play and I find myself without a party for a few evenings, then I'll probably drop that MMO and do something else.
On the other hand, if the content is solo and there isn't social interaction then I'll lose interest and go play any of the well made single player RPG. The 'kill-ten-spiders' quests or mindless grind doesn't catch my attention.
I tend to play my mmorpg games solo-ly like a single-player game with an always online drm kinda deal, I never really a social butterfly type of person to speak to everyone, i only speak when I feel the need to, or need something from someone (tradeskill usage, guild raid runs, heroic scenarios, etc). In mmo games, I care about story, questing, crafting, and beating down the big bad boss of the current update and make me feel like I've beaten the game till the next contant update. I don't enjoy doing alot of grouping or doing groups to power level, etc that make it look and feel like I'm skipping a part of a story, skipping part of the lore at the sacrifice of gameplay... I only enter groups unless I really need something to get done (a quest to reached honored, revered, exalted reputation on a faction such as the black prince, to collect timeless coin currency, to do a dungeon/raid/scenario).
Good game design should allow for solid, enjoyable solo game play. Sometimes you just don't have time to coordinate with others to get something done. That being said , the current trend in MMO's is killing the concept of group play. The BEST rewards and adventures in an MMO should ALWAYS require a group! Not only that but MMO's should encourage team work through a dynamic group mechanic that insists on specific rolls. I don't mean JUST the dreaded big 3 of tanking, healing and DPS. We live in a time where developers should be able to discern all types of group encounter types.
As much as I enjoyed and respect GW2, I got so tired of every group encounter coming down to 'how fast can we dps'. It got tedious and never required to develop a play style beyond hitting max level and hitting the gear ceiling. There are no memorable moments in GW2, it all just blurs together. It was a design decision Anet made for mass appeal. That's fine, and works, but it eventually loses it color and no amount of armor/weapons skins can change that.
So much agreed. There is nothing wrong with facilitating solo play, however, it is a MMO, of course the best stuff in the game will be acquired through group play. There is nothing wrong with having meaningful solo content on the side, though. It means on raid off nights even raiders can have meaningful content to do, too. I think solo players and raiders alike should be in support of meaningful solo content ON TOP of meaningful group content. Having both just means an overall better quality game, one where you never run out of things to do depending on your mood. Not all players stick to one style of play all the time, it can depend on the day. The only thing I'd say is, don't force players to do it if they don't want to, though. Then it becomes more of a chore and less of a fun side thing in the case with WoW and the beginning of Mists of Pandaria and daily quests.
If the games had more players that I actually wanted to group with, then I might be a bit saddened by this article. As it is, there are too many f**ktarded people out there that I'd rather not have to group up with... ever.
There needs to be more 'looking for group' filters in place, honestly. I mean, if the filters worked, then you might be able to find folks like yourself that you might not mind grouping with. Otherwise, the gaming world is filled/cluttered with 'trade chat trash' that thinks they are funny, cute, brave, or tough while spewing trash and acting like morons.
The community promoted solo'ing. The game developers simply helped the movement by catering to it.
> Getting tired of reading this excuse for a lack of multi-player in MMORPGs
Everyone is or should be tired of this argument by now. I will play the games I want to play, and if I want to solo in an MMORPG, the last thing I'm going to worry about is whether it impacts the genre in ways you don't like. I'm going to do me.
They are not mmorpgs, just a single player games with chat, thats why i not play them. I prefer real single player games or mmorpgs. Rift gw and star wars are worst, super boring games for loners.
I like that..eq1 soloable especially while multi-boxing. Wouldn't most mmo's be soloable if you multi-box? As someone who played eq 1 during it's early days I can say it definitely wasn't a solo game and grouping was necessary and even enjoyed but then no one multiboxed. Of course it is no longer the same game because even if you set yourself to play using none of the perks that exist now there is little in the way of like minded folks to group with.
Originally posted by zethcarn MMO will continue to be boring pieces of crap if they continue to make solo quest to max level content their #1 priority.
There must be a reason that most mmo's that used to be tough enough to need grouping to play them morphed into solo friendly games.
Ultima Online during its early days was at times the best mmo there has ever been since it mixed pvp'rs with non pvp'rs which made it a great feeding frenzy for those that need to dominate others to have fun and at the same time provided a dangerous world for the non-pk types to try and survive in while they did their things. But if was failing as a business so it had to change.
Everquest (not going to say the first one as that name will always mean something unique to me) while not a pvp game was not easy and if you didn't group you were setting yourself up for a long slow and difficult path. The difficulties are legend now but apparently it had to change also.
I spent 3 years in both from the beginning in both and I wouldn't trade those memories for anything but it seems that now the typical gamer looks for different things now (status, glory and things to brag about with others) so the developers have had to adapt to compete. I'm not sure what would happen to a new mmo existed now that required grouping. I'm guessing it would fail horribly as a business.
"The acronym, "MMO", means Massive MULTIPLAYER Online, the operative word being multiplayer. Yet even in today's crowded MMO market, there are many games that never necessitate any human interaction, that allow players to be Forever Alone should they choose to be so."
You lose the debate with your first paragraph. You seem to think that MMO means Massively Grouped Online, it doesn't. MMO means a game with a massive amount of people playing the same game, online. Oh, and I also agree you're a troll.
However, I want to play in your trollish game so I'll match your opinion with my own. I am one of the few people who have a job and pay for my fun. That means I like doing what I want to do to have fun. I do not want to put up with little kids talking smack. I do not want to listen to Barrens Chat. I do not want to put up with the frustration of members of my group doing things that make me die. I also do not want to ruin my wonderment of the world by running through it trying to keep up with my group.
I'm old. I like to go slow. I like to stop, sit down, and enjoy the beauty of the artwork that the devs have created. I want to go over there --> (points into the distance), without worrying about slowing my group down. I want to get up from my chair and lay down to straighten out my back muscles whenever I want to.
Yes, I like to talk to people. Yes, I like helping people keep their characters alive and accomplish their goals. I also like forming relationships with people who can put up with me.
(shrug) Like someone else said, enjoy what you like and let me enjoy what I like.
I loved SWToR, but with a party limit of 4, you could only duo the x 4 zones and you couldn't take a party, because those companions would count as 2 people ! Thus, turning the mmo into a duo game more than a soloist game, although you can do the x 2 content by yourself with a companion, it really is most fun to duo it, since you can't attain any conversation social points solo.
As proven above, people are to impatient and action twitch finger for mmos. They make it hard for the rest of us who want a harder challenging game, because they tend to pull before the healers and tanks are ready and wipe the group/raid. Dps that pull during the strategy explanation, or blame everyone else for having low dps on a boss fight, although yes, we all hate when people show up without any equipment on to a high level raid zone, but it doesn't make for a fun grouping/raiding experience with all the swearing and arguing.
Most communities on mmos are toxic, and we all solo to avoid other people, where once we wanted to be with other people. We still want to group with good people , who are friends and guildmates, we just don't want to group with the random strangers of impatient people or trolls, who will pull then disband raids, and make the raid wipe for no reason.
I'm tired of the zergs myself, and I'm only 29 yr old. I like to see the beautiful artwork and enjoy the world, I want more in-depth customization and variety, true rpg statistics, and exploration.
This linear zerg point a to point b is so boring and it is why my boyfriend quit playing mmos.
All you do is join a group of dead silence, maybe a hi and a bye, and run through the zone as fast as possible tank/spanking mobs with hotbar rotations, and rushing all the way through it, so the group can disband and leave as you slowly walk around the zone by yourself to enjoy the cleared zone at your leisure.
They even took out complicated quests, knowing that groups were impatient and didn't care to do quests anymore, Blizzard made quests so easy, that most quests are simply point a to point b. There's no variation in quests, and its all the same boring linear kill this and loot that, and all quests are pretty much done by the end of the dungeon, because there was nothing to them.
Oh yeah, I miss long groups on Everquest 1, where you actually could go afk as you guys camped an exp spot, but the camping and grinding exp was boring and tedious and the game needed some quests badly. They need a balance of old grinding and solo / group / raid quests , because right now its so easy its boring and before, it was so difficult that it was boring. The kill rate on EQ1 was so tediously slow, and if you weren't a tank/healer/slower you didn't get the groups. So , all the dps tried to solo and we had kite groups, but it was pretty boring not being able to do the cool challenging stuff (as we had no tank).
Comments
Anti social players cry for games that can be done solo. Developers make soloable games. The antisocial player is then happy and plays said games.... for about 3 months then quits.
Why is that... do you think?
I think I can explain. The solo player I belive likes to solo not neccessarily to avoid human contact, because if they didnt want that, they can play single player games. They must, after all, have someone who they can boast their accomplishments to. But how is it something to boast about or give a sense of accomplishment, if everyone can do it easily? Theres no satisfaction in it. They do not feel special, and get bored.
Honestly, if these players truly wanted a solo player experience, they would play solo player games. Right? Its because they want do accomplish difficult goals in a game, by themselves, and have bragging rights to other players.. They want to show off to an audience(the other players) The games being made for them today do not give them that. Only the old MMO's like EQ1, do that. EQ1 was a very hard game to play solo, and soloing successfully in that game, really was something to brag about.
This has been lost.
What really sucked was we could see it coming when playing EQ in early 2000s.....The complaints started coming and SOE slowly started making the game more solo friendly....Then WoW released and the solo MMO experience exploded.....
The communities have only themselves to blame for the lack of group content. The reason? Simple ... there as been an ever increasing amount of horrifically behaved gamers in MMOs over the years. The creation of the Instant queues and random finders only made this worse. Interactions with people, more often than not, ends up bitter and unpleasant.
MMOs have ALWAYS had a lot of solo content, dating back to M59, UO and EQ. But there was also group content, involving an element of patience. These days, patience is lost; folks want to rush to end-game- you cannot have a landscape built around group content and still offer the wanted dash to MAX level.
RPGs were at its best pre-raid mentality ... when it was built around the small group; leaving the larger content- such as EQ's old Plane of Fear, etc to folks who can gather the people ... but you never just stood around in queues for it. EQ offered ALOT to do.
If MMOs are to become RPG Multi-player games again, they will have to focus far more on the journey to max level and offer more things to do at MAX level than waiting for unlocks and queues.
I will state again, Developers go where the money is ... so the gaming community only has itself to blame for the state of current MMOs.
All risk , no reward, all work, no play. Please enjoy yourself. You should try playing Tera Online if you like working your face off for months and not getting anywhere. It's great for building "character" no pun intended.
Groups are slow, unpredictable and force me to wait around. I can't control other people, whether I've known them for a while or not. They might even be better at the game than me. But they sure as Hell can't keep up with me. "LET'S GO!"
'You ready?" "Everyone Ready" ... !@#$%^&; "He's afk"
I'm not alone either, this is why MOST people can't stand grouping. The other half of the population has downs syndrome and can't move, click, shoot fast enough.
I don't wait around, I want to play the game.
I think the saddest thing about this article, is that it is absolutely and totally, all true.
MMO's these days do seem to treat the second M in MMO as being totally optional and not actually a requirement in any way. So much so that many players these days just don't have the patience to be part of a group, its all 'me me me, and now now now' .. but its a successful game model, so i don't see it changing anytime soon
/rawr U R So Right, damn those antisocial people I hate them so!
The favorite topic of the Social Misanthropist.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I dont see how its sad.
And if you stop and really think about what you just wrote you'll realize youre wrong.
MMO's nowadays actually give people the choice to solo or group play. As a matter of fact MMO's now make grouping so much easier now than they ever had before.
Group finders, quest finders, instance finders, public quests. And every MMO released has plenty of group content along with solo content.
A good example is SWtOR. That game has plenty of "heroic" areas where you have to group with other players to beat the content. And the rewards for doing so are pretty damn good. Sure you can go back at a higher level and complete it, but by that time you out leveled the rewards.
Its not a design or game flaw if people choose not to group to access that content with someone else. Its a choice.
Its just ridiculous when people complain about others having the choice not to play with you.
I mean come on people, if you really need someone that bad to play with, go buy a dog.
"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."
It's a dilemma. If the game forces group play and I find myself without a party for a few evenings, then I'll probably drop that MMO and do something else.
On the other hand, if the content is solo and there isn't social interaction then I'll lose interest and go play any of the well made single player RPG. The 'kill-ten-spiders' quests or mindless grind doesn't catch my attention.
So much agreed. There is nothing wrong with facilitating solo play, however, it is a MMO, of course the best stuff in the game will be acquired through group play. There is nothing wrong with having meaningful solo content on the side, though. It means on raid off nights even raiders can have meaningful content to do, too. I think solo players and raiders alike should be in support of meaningful solo content ON TOP of meaningful group content. Having both just means an overall better quality game, one where you never run out of things to do depending on your mood. Not all players stick to one style of play all the time, it can depend on the day. The only thing I'd say is, don't force players to do it if they don't want to, though. Then it becomes more of a chore and less of a fun side thing in the case with WoW and the beginning of Mists of Pandaria and daily quests.
If the games had more players that I actually wanted to group with, then I might be a bit saddened by this article. As it is, there are too many f**ktarded people out there that I'd rather not have to group up with... ever.
There needs to be more 'looking for group' filters in place, honestly. I mean, if the filters worked, then you might be able to find folks like yourself that you might not mind grouping with. Otherwise, the gaming world is filled/cluttered with 'trade chat trash' that thinks they are funny, cute, brave, or tough while spewing trash and acting like morons.
The community promoted solo'ing. The game developers simply helped the movement by catering to it.
I dont get it, you want to play in a group, make one, where is the problem ?
When noone wants to play with you, maybe problem is not a game ...
> Getting tired of reading this excuse for a lack of multi-player in MMORPGs
Everyone is or should be tired of this argument by now. I will play the games I want to play, and if I want to solo in an MMORPG, the last thing I'm going to worry about is whether it impacts the genre in ways you don't like. I'm going to do me.
I believe the violence in nearly all mmorpg's caters to our "inner battle" when us battlecowboys deal with a massive multiplayer environment!
There must be a reason that most mmo's that used to be tough enough to need grouping to play them morphed into solo friendly games.
Ultima Online during its early days was at times the best mmo there has ever been since it mixed pvp'rs with non pvp'rs which made it a great feeding frenzy for those that need to dominate others to have fun and at the same time provided a dangerous world for the non-pk types to try and survive in while they did their things. But if was failing as a business so it had to change.
Everquest (not going to say the first one as that name will always mean something unique to me) while not a pvp game was not easy and if you didn't group you were setting yourself up for a long slow and difficult path. The difficulties are legend now but apparently it had to change also.
I spent 3 years in both from the beginning in both and I wouldn't trade those memories for anything but it seems that now the typical gamer looks for different things now (status, glory and things to brag about with others) so the developers have had to adapt to compete. I'm not sure what would happen to a new mmo existed now that required grouping. I'm guessing it would fail horribly as a business.
"The acronym, "MMO", means Massive MULTIPLAYER Online, the operative word being multiplayer. Yet even in today's crowded MMO market, there are many games that never necessitate any human interaction, that allow players to be Forever Alone should they choose to be so."
You lose the debate with your first paragraph. You seem to think that MMO means Massively Grouped Online, it doesn't. MMO means a game with a massive amount of people playing the same game, online. Oh, and I also agree you're a troll.
However, I want to play in your trollish game so I'll match your opinion with my own. I am one of the few people who have a job and pay for my fun. That means I like doing what I want to do to have fun. I do not want to put up with little kids talking smack. I do not want to listen to Barrens Chat. I do not want to put up with the frustration of members of my group doing things that make me die. I also do not want to ruin my wonderment of the world by running through it trying to keep up with my group.
I'm old. I like to go slow. I like to stop, sit down, and enjoy the beauty of the artwork that the devs have created. I want to go over there --> (points into the distance), without worrying about slowing my group down. I want to get up from my chair and lay down to straighten out my back muscles whenever I want to.
Yes, I like to talk to people. Yes, I like helping people keep their characters alive and accomplish their goals. I also like forming relationships with people who can put up with me.
(shrug) Like someone else said, enjoy what you like and let me enjoy what I like.
I loved SWToR, but with a party limit of 4, you could only duo the x 4 zones and you couldn't take a party, because those companions would count as 2 people ! Thus, turning the mmo into a duo game more than a soloist game, although you can do the x 2 content by yourself with a companion, it really is most fun to duo it, since you can't attain any conversation social points solo.
As proven above, people are to impatient and action twitch finger for mmos. They make it hard for the rest of us who want a harder challenging game, because they tend to pull before the healers and tanks are ready and wipe the group/raid. Dps that pull during the strategy explanation, or blame everyone else for having low dps on a boss fight, although yes, we all hate when people show up without any equipment on to a high level raid zone, but it doesn't make for a fun grouping/raiding experience with all the swearing and arguing.
Most communities on mmos are toxic, and we all solo to avoid other people, where once we wanted to be with other people. We still want to group with good people , who are friends and guildmates, we just don't want to group with the random strangers of impatient people or trolls, who will pull then disband raids, and make the raid wipe for no reason.
I'm tired of the zergs myself, and I'm only 29 yr old. I like to see the beautiful artwork and enjoy the world, I want more in-depth customization and variety, true rpg statistics, and exploration.
This linear zerg point a to point b is so boring and it is why my boyfriend quit playing mmos.
All you do is join a group of dead silence, maybe a hi and a bye, and run through the zone as fast as possible tank/spanking mobs with hotbar rotations, and rushing all the way through it, so the group can disband and leave as you slowly walk around the zone by yourself to enjoy the cleared zone at your leisure.
They even took out complicated quests, knowing that groups were impatient and didn't care to do quests anymore, Blizzard made quests so easy, that most quests are simply point a to point b. There's no variation in quests, and its all the same boring linear kill this and loot that, and all quests are pretty much done by the end of the dungeon, because there was nothing to them.
Oh yeah, I miss long groups on Everquest 1, where you actually could go afk as you guys camped an exp spot, but the camping and grinding exp was boring and tedious and the game needed some quests badly. They need a balance of old grinding and solo / group / raid quests , because right now its so easy its boring and before, it was so difficult that it was boring. The kill rate on EQ1 was so tediously slow, and if you weren't a tank/healer/slower you didn't get the groups. So , all the dps tried to solo and we had kite groups, but it was pretty boring not being able to do the cool challenging stuff (as we had no tank).