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What is PVP? Really
Lucioon
Member UncommonPosts: 819
I think the Term of PVP is used in way too many different ways that its now different than what the term actually means, I think many MMO players are confusing it with PKer.
PVP is Player Versus Player
PKer is Player Killer
I understand that the old school ways of PVP is PK , killing players out right while they are questing, but as the current trend of moving PVP into their own separate Instance. ( Warzone, Arena, Battlegrounds....etc )
Do you think that PVP should remain the same as it is?
I ask this question, because Balance is and will always be a issue. This issue is because you can't properly balance PVE mechanics into PVP mechanics. Certain class will always be OP when played right against other Players.
This is where my proposal comes in,
What IF when you enter a PVP zone, you no longer have a class, you pick a role provided by the instance ( warzone, arena, battleground ) and the game gives you a list of skills to take with you. ( When I say roles, I mean like Football or basketball...etc, guard, runner...etc)
Everyone is now at ground Zero, no class balance its all down to the role you want to play, the skills you pick. Everyone can either be all OP, or all sucky. It will not influence the PVE game in anyway. And players gets to become the best PVPer they want to be, in PVP.
Player versus Player is just that, Player playing against other Players, it doesn't always have to mean you have to be a healer or tank or dps against other healer, tank, dps. Isn't it about you as a player beating other players in the game and besting them with the game mechanics.
I am not saying killing other players outright isn't fun as a tank and healer, I am just saying that there is no need to do so in our current game mechanic.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
Comments
PvP is the ability to kill other players within the normal game world, just like PvE is the ability to kill environmentals in the game world. Battlegrounds and WvWvW and arena aren't PvP, they are just their own little mini game.
+1
That is the choice you are given when you choose the server you would like to play on, so that is the definition that makes the most sense to me.
All pvp is pk'n. player vs player. When a player dies by another's players hand, he has been pk'd.
It's all pvp OP.
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt
PVP = PK
PK = PVP
Nice try OP but they are homonyms.
I use PvP and PKing to mean different things.
PvP is conflict between players who want to be in conflict.
PKing is conflict between players when only one side wanted a conflict.
I consider anything that enables PKing to be bad design.
What if I didn't want conflict, but killed the attacker?
When a player DIES by another players had, he has been pk'd during pvp (redundant), no matter the situation or how you think of it.
PK is a term that originally meant killing others in a FFA style PvP system unprovoked. So if some guy is a total jerk to me, I warn him I'll kill him if he doesn't stop, he keeps doing it and I kill him, that is not a PK. If I just jump him out of the blue for no reason it is. So in WoW you can't PK anyone even on a PvP server, it is a racial based server where your enemies are clearly marked.
PvP is players fighting each other in the game world.
Things like battlegrounds are just a separate part of the game. They don't really count as PvP, though over the years the get called it. It is like calling an RTS or MOBA a PvP game though. A term that has been expanded to include way more than it probably should.
If the target did not want to be part of hide-and-seek environment, it's "attempted PK". What the target did is neither PvP nor PKing, it's just surviving a bad design.
( just to emphasize my disclaimer, this is how I classify things in my own mind ... I'm not claiming my choice of classifications is an objective truth, it just find it has the best chance of being understood when I find myself in a conversation on the topic, even if the listener would prefer to use the words interchangably )
( er ... and sorry for drifting off-topic )
Then PK'd isn't a bad thing.
The red: I think who ever initiates the combat should have harsher death penalties bestowed upon them.
i am ok with that, as long as the people are able to read the warning about pvp servers...
There are so many whiners because they were killed while questing even though they decided to play a pvp server, or even started petition because a pvp group blocked some open world content which is imo the best part of open world pvp
Pvp is just the ability to kill another player. Thats it nothing else.
Instance or within the world, it's still pvp. There may be differences in consequences. Consequences does not define pvp.
Pk is just a form of pvp, sub-type in the overall theme if you will
Crafting/auctioning may be competition but it is not pvp
PvP= people competing against other people.
PvE= people competing against computer code scripts.
PK= Killed by a Player.
A lot of people equate PvP with only being about BG's or WvWvW or Southshore vs. Tarren Mill.
This is a incomplete definition of the term.
World/Server first Achievements are PvP, yet know one needs to kills another player to attain "first to max level"
EvE's markets are PvP, yet a player can "win" by simply looking at spreadsheets.
Why is auctioning not PvP? Because it's not combat based? I'm just thinking that people who play the market in EvE would probably disagree with you. The business world is probably more competitive than combat. It's a lot more taxing on the brain, that's for sure.
Yes. Pvp is about attacking and having the ability to kill the other player. It is not just about competition.
Competition in other areas can be just as or more fierce but the last 2 decades of gaming has not defined that as pvp. It has been defined as being able to attack and kill.
edit - I'll refine it to say pvp is traditionally defined as combat between 2 players.
I think the frustration those people feel comes from the grey area of there being a "danger" of PvP and what shape that danger should take. There are people who enjoy the idea of a background risk in a world, but are still picky about the exact frequency and asymmetry of that risk.
An interesting example for me was EvE. I played EvE for a year and did my best to stay below the radar of pirates, cling tightly to highsec and managedf to emjoy myself. Then one day I was randomly attacked. I survived thanks to a fluke of timing that I was mid-redocking after changing my mind about what ship to fly, but it made me stop and re-examing what on earth a non-PvP player like myself was doing in a game like that. I didn't rage about it, but I did think quite a bit about how a 1.0 sec EvE space could work (even brainstormed up a whole mini-design-doc about how to seemlessly integrate it into existing EvE space/economy), but then stopped myself, thought about it some more and decided that, no, I was simply playing the wrong game.
I agree.
Any time a player fights another player with the intent to kill, it's pvp. You can break it down into other catagories like pk or arena combat but it all falls under pvp.
lol @ ppl who think raiding/crafting etc are pvp.
LOTRO and GW2 currently do this.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
What if your goal is to kill your competition in the economy world by attacking the auction house (lower prices, saturate the market, etc).
Unless you are killing your competition by engaging them in combat it is not pvp. Good competition yes, but not pvp.
At least not pvp as it has been traditionally defined - player combat against other players.
In 20 years the definition may be different. Perhaps it is changing now. I don't believe there is enough of a general consensus right now to say that auctioning is pvp.
Too many terms have been warped over the years. Like the word gank. Before it was a term used to describe you being completely outnumbered with absolutely no chance of winning. Now anytime anyone loses in a PvP match they say they were ganked.
You have people that call any form of PvP griefing. Accept those same people accepted the Agreement to be on that PvP server. Now people have been warping PK about as well. In the new crowd PK is a griefer or ganker. While it can be true it doesn't mean it is. A PK is a red player. It doesn't automatically make him a griefer or ganker. It just means he is a Player Killer. He isn't a Blue player.
And for those that say they engaged in PvP without their consent or willingness. You consented and were willing as soon as you joined that PvP server. Thats like going into a BG and whining because you had to fight the opposite team. Or jumping on LoL/CoD and crying you had other people shooting or attacking you.
They really should just have a dictionary full of old school terms that the new players have to go over and learn. Its just getting ridiculous.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
I agree it is slowly changing
Take chess for example. It could be argued that Chess is a form of combat, even though no one dies. I would class that as PvP. However I'm not killing anyone or even attacking them. You could say I am attacking his pieces and capturing his queen.
I could easily apply the same principles to the economy, like I mentioned above. That's why I'm coming to the conclusion that auction house can be a place for PvP combat if you find that fun to do.
To me, this is the best overall achievement in under the PvP "umbrella".
When a couple of would-be (blanks) attack you out of nowhere and they know they have you outnumbered but during the fight they realize something has gone horribly wrong and they've made a grave mistake ... giving people that "WTF, we might lose" feeling causes me to laugh maniacally and its the sole reason why I play OWPvP games.
While I agree with your general premise. Overall I think most people don't call just dying in pvp to be ganking or griefing. I think most people still say them to mean: Gank - a complete surprise attack for which they had no chance of defense; grief - employing deliberate strategies to ruin the other person's play time.
However I do think it is good that words change over time. It reflects different thinking and different people. The language they use should change over time.
To me, this is the best overall achievement in under the PvP "umbrella".
When a couple of would-be (blanks) attack you out of nowhere and they know they have you outnumbered but during the fight they realize something has gone horribly wrong and they've made a grave mistake ... giving people that "WTF, we might lose" feeling causes me to laugh maniacally and its the sole reason why I play OWPvP games.
I agree that is a great feeling. It's a good example of what you're missing when you turn off ow pvp in mmos. Sure you do away with some unfortunate griefing, but you also do away with some amazing stories of overcoming adversity. You can't have heroes without villains!