Originally posted by VengeSunsoar No more so than the old ones.
Yeh.
I remember .. i stopped playing MMOs after some time at EQ, just because it was not to my liking. And i did not come to forums to rant about it.
I just quit ... went do something else. It was not until WoW fixed many of the programs before i came back to play MMOs. I expect to leave again if games are not to my liking.
The sad part is, that's what this site is becoming. The place where mmo players go to die. It's like an old folks home here where everyone sits around talking about how great everything used to be and how it all sucks now. They think because there are other old burn outs around them agreeing it must be the way it is for everyone.
The world outside this rest home gets on just fine without them. It's only the end for the ones wanting to die.
I look at the cup half full. May be this is their new hobby ... forum pvp. The topic of MMOs is just incidental.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar No more so than the old ones.
Yeh.
I remember .. i stopped playing MMOs after some time at EQ, just because it was not to my liking. And i did not come to forums to rant about it.
I just quit ... went do something else. It was not until WoW fixed many of the programs before i came back to play MMOs. I expect to leave again if games are not to my liking.
The sad part is, that's what this site is becoming. The place where mmo players go to die. It's like an old folks home here where everyone sits around talking about how great everything used to be and how it all sucks now. They think because there are other old burn outs around them agreeing it must be the way it is for everyone.
The world outside this rest home gets on just fine without them. It's only the end for the ones wanting to die.
I think you underestimate the number of gamers disenfranchised by the WoW trend. I only have anecdotal evidence but many of gamers I played with and personal friends and their friends have just given up on the genre.
I think change is coming and mainly because there are still those out there with beliefs in the old school or even just change and lack of expected success of the niche created by WoW.
I see no reason to complain about those venting about their realities of the genre. When you start criticism on topics being sad on a message board it goes to ask how sad are thise makung the commentary.
I don't know, there was a period when every mmo was a badly done copy of wow, and there's a couple of others like that still to come. But....
There's been more variety last year with the likes of age of wyshu and planetside 2. And there's much more variety coming up with starbound, elite dangerous, everquest next, world of darkness, star citizen etc..
I miss the old days off MMOs as well. But I have to question how much of the nostalgia has to do with my own subjective mindset/wonder at the time…
I had more free time
I was WAY more into video games back then
I was easier to impress
The genre selection was much narrower
WoW hadn’t been released yet
SW:G hadn’t been overhauled yet
Of course there are systems in those older games that are lacking now (complex crafting with variable values, ACTUAL open worlds without queuing/instancing for everything, rare mobs with no guarantee on spawn times/locations, earnest in-world player/guild housing, etc.) but in almost every other regard, the games of today are a lot better than they used to be… The combat is great, the art is amazing, the tech is vastly improved…
Guild Wars 2 has pretty much everything I’ve wanted in an MMO, and yet I can’t bring myself to log in anymore.
I’m waiting for Wildstar and EQLandmark/Next with hopes that it will reignite some of that MMO passion… But I have my doubts that it will work for longer than a month or so.
At this point I’m just waiting to get into Hearthstone. I know where I stand with a TCG and it seems Blizz has nailed this pretty well.
We’ll see… It might be over, like you say. But it might be every bit as much subjective as objective.
"Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils." - Louis Hector Berlioz
Originally posted by DamonVile If all 12 of you quit what will the other 48 million of us do ?
Continue to waste your time and money until you become us?
Someday they'll chose the Red Pill and leave the Matrix like the rest of us, only a matter of time.
But for now they are content with the Blue Pill.
I think you got that backwards, those trapped in the matrix are those who think their continuous complaining will solve their perceived problem, this complaining has been going on since I first visited this site in 05. The rest of us took that Red pill long ago and accepted this is the reality of the genre.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I see no reason to complain about those venting about their realities of the genre. When you start criticism on topics being sad on a message board it goes to ask how sad are thise makung the commentary.
Huge difference between reality as they see it, and how everyone feels. The end of the genre is not the same as I don't like anything about it.
When do these posts every actually say, I've done it all and seen all there is to see so I think it's time FOR ME to move on ? They always say the same thing....the end is near because I'm bored.
Originally posted by DamonVile If all 12 of you quit what will the other 48 million of us do ?
Continue to waste your time and money until you become us?
Someday they'll chose the Red Pill and leave the Matrix like the rest of us, only a matter of time.
But for now they are content with the Blue Pill.
I think you got that backwards, those trapped in the matrix are those who think their continuous complaining will solve their perceived problem, this complaining has been going on since I first visited this site in 05. The rest of us took that Red pill long ago and accepted this is the reality of the genre.
Originally posted by DamonVile If all 12 of you quit what will the other 48 million of us do ?
Continue to waste your time and money until you become us?
Someday they'll chose the Red Pill and leave the Matrix like the rest of us, only a matter of time.
But for now they are content with the Blue Pill.
I think you got that backwards, those trapped in the matrix are those who think their continuous complaining will solve their perceived problem, this complaining has been going on since I first visited this site in 05. The rest of us took that Red pill long ago and accepted this is the reality of the genre.
No, pretty sure I got it right the first time, you'll never change your fate if you just go along with the "reality" of the situation, you'll just continue to be misled....well at least until you finally make the transition and join the rest of us.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by DamonVile If all 12 of you quit what will the other 48 million of us do ?
Continue to waste your time and money until you become us?
Someday they'll chose the Red Pill and leave the Matrix like the rest of us, only a matter of time.
But for now they are content with the Blue Pill.
I think you got that backwards, those trapped in the matrix are those who think their continuous complaining will solve their perceived problem, this complaining has been going on since I first visited this site in 05. The rest of us took that Red pill long ago and accepted this is the reality of the genre.
And don't play any MMO.
Playing/Paying for crap games, only brings more crap games.
When do these posts every actually say, I've done it all and seen all there is to see so I think it's time FOR ME to move on ? They always say the same thing....the end is near because I'm bored.
Its not the end of the genre, because the genre is already dead and what we have now is something else.Where you display your shallowness is when you talk about "done it all", in the older games you could neverdo it all because interaction between people led to unique situations, independently of the developer.
I know full well that devs cant create enough new content to satisfy the need for something new and unique, unfortunately that is what they are trying to do - and failing miserably.
The approach and the thinking is too shallow and mechanical and that's why we produce crap all over as a society.
There are indie games in the works that will bring back real danger and penalty for making mistakes in game.
Right....
Cause we haven't been being fed that line for the last seven years or so. Care to name one of these indie games that actually delivered on what it promised?
I wouldn't get your hopes up, again, based on nothing more than advertising and marketing.
Originally posted by DamonVile If all 12 of you quit what will the other 48 million of us do ?
Continue to waste your time and money until you become us?
Someday they'll chose the Red Pill and leave the Matrix like the rest of us, only a matter of time.
But for now they are content with the Blue Pill.
I think you got that backwards, those trapped in the matrix are those who think their continuous complaining will solve their perceived problem, this complaining has been going on since I first visited this site in 05. The rest of us took that Red pill long ago and accepted this is the reality of the genre.
No, pretty sure I got it right the first time, you'll never change your fate if you just go along with the "reality" of the situation, you'll just continue to be misled....well at least until you finally make the transition and join the rest of us.
Again, only a matter of time.....
I' ve been playing games since the 70s, I see all the faults. I just know that when you only look for the bad in things, that's all you'll ever see. It's not about being unable to see the truth, it's about accepting what the truth is and focuing on what you really want out of them.
I play games for fun, so I focus on fininding it in them. If I wanted to sit here and bitch and moan about them....I'd go do something else. Being negative all the time is how you become a misserable person in your old age. Everything you become stems from your attitude about life and what you love to do.
I argue because just like saying everything sucks over and over...being piossitve over and over helps make it ture. People really do undersestimate how much control they have over thier own attitudes.
So no it isn't a matter of time. I know full well what becomes of people who become the people in this thread. I'll find something else to do first.
I've been sick of MMOs for quite a while. GW2 was my last great hope for something new and great. I don't really have much faith in Wildstar or any upcoming MMOs. I can still get enjoyment out of existing MMOs though, I just enjoy other genres more at the moment. I've always been a bigger fan of ARPGs than MMOs anyway.
I don't mean to be downer, but isn't it also possible that it isn't just about what the old MMOs were but how things used to be for you?
Similar to the Twilight Zone episode Static, you associate good feelings from the old days with those MMOs and that's what actually want to feel again.
However you will likely find that even if an MMO were made in exact replication of the older generation of MMOs, you would not feel the same way and still find them not satisfying.
Not to say I think the new generation of MMOs are amazing by any stretch of imagination, but perhaps they are not really what is preventing you from being happy with MMOs.
This is hardly an unusual thing for us, to be nostalgic and want to relive past experiences that we now look back on as the best part of our lives, with the present seeming unchangably sad in comparison...
Played: DAoC, AC2, WoW, CoH, GW, GW2, WAR, AoC, Champions Online, Rift, Dragon Nest, Vindictus, Warframe, Neverwinter, Dungeon Fighter Online
The difference is MMOs these days are on steroids.
10 Years ago it took 6 months to get a character to max level and you couldn't do much without help. Now you can solo to max level in 2 days.
A player used to spend weeks in a zone, now its like an hour or two.
The theme-park realm is all about who can provide the most rewards in the fastest time possible. That is the cost of going mainstream.
When players demand 'hard' aka 'grindy' games, they are going back the genre's niche roots which cannot be justified by bloated AAA budgets that rely on attracting the masses.
Its also possible that people who enjoyed MMOs 10 years ago have simply 'grown up' and no longer find the genre as satisfying since they have 'been there done that' for quite some time.
Could it be us? If we could be 18 again and naive of MMO troupes would we love the current gen games?
I've noticed a particular tendency in people loving the music they listened to when they were teenagers. It's like their interests get locked in at those ages.
Also even if an old school MMO was released I doubt I could play it in old school fashion. I have a full time job, wife and kid. No camping rare spawns for weeks or 3am raid calls. MMOs have changed but a wager we've changed a lot more.
Originally posted by DamonVile If all 12 of you quit what will the other 48 million of us do ?
Continue to waste your time and money until you become us?
Someday they'll chose the Red Pill and leave the Matrix like the rest of us, only a matter of time.
But for now they are content with the Blue Pill.
I think you got that backwards, those trapped in the matrix are those who think their continuous complaining will solve their perceived problem, this complaining has been going on since I first visited this site in 05. The rest of us took that Red pill long ago and accepted this is the reality of the genre.
No, pretty sure I got it right the first time, you'll never change your fate if you just go along with the "reality" of the situation, you'll just continue to be misled....well at least until you finally make the transition and join the rest of us.
Again, only a matter of time.....
I' ve been playing games since the 70s, I see all the faults. I just know that when you only look for the bad in things, that's all you'll ever see. It's not about being unable to see the truth, it's about accepting what the truth is and focuing on what you really want out of them.
I play games for fun, so I focus on fininding it in them. If I wanted to sit here and bitch and moan about them....I'd go do something else. Being negative all the time is how you become a misserable person in your old age. Everything you become stems from your attitude about life and what you love to do.
I argue because just like saying everything sucks over and over...being piossitve over and over helps make it ture. People really do undersestimate how much control they have over thier own attitudes.
So no it isn't a matter of time. I know full well what becomes of people who become the people in this thread. I'll find something else to do first.
Exactly. I see a burnt out MMOer who needs a break. There is no ultimate truth about the state of the industry here: just the usual polarizing negativity with the usual chip on the shoulder, just waiting to attack anyone who dares feel positive about playing MMOs.
MMOs aren't exciting you at the moment? Go do something else. Maybe they will again...maybe they won't. We all do this from time to time. But most of us aren't so selfish or delusional to believe that our own state of mind is the only one that is valid.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I think change is coming and mainly because there are still those out there with beliefs in the old school or even just change and lack of expected success of the niche created by WoW.
Change is coming? It is already here, just not back to the old school tried and failed ideas.
MOBAs, instanced pvp games like WoT, shooters like Destiny .. are the new things, replacing MMORPGs as the forefront of online games.
Don't make the erroneous assumption that if themepark is going out of favor, only the old stuff will come back. May be the answer is another radical change, and true MMORPGs are no longer the focus.
Also even if an old school MMO was released I doubt I could play it in old school fashion. I have a full time job, wife and kid. No camping rare spawns for weeks or 3am raid calls. MMOs have changed but a wager we've changed a lot more.
Yeah, we have changed and our priorities has changed. But the feeling of fun and community still is in my heart. Maybe I'm just imagining that things was better before............. Still..... Miss the community, players ability to selfadminister the community (by killing off idiots in the game etc.), the feeling of skill and power.
Also even if an old school MMO was released I doubt I could play it in old school fashion. I have a full time job, wife and kid. No camping rare spawns for weeks or 3am raid calls. MMOs have changed but a wager we've changed a lot more.
Yeah, we have changed and our priorities has changed. But the feeling of fun and community still is in my heart. Maybe I'm just imagining that things was better before............. Still..... Miss the community, players ability to selfadminister the community (by killing off idiots in the game etc.), the feeling of skill and power.
Fun certainly is in my heart. Community? Not so much.
Comments
I look at the cup half full. May be this is their new hobby ... forum pvp. The topic of MMOs is just incidental.
My computer is better than yours.
You call that wisdom?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Someday they'll chose the Red Pill and leave the Matrix like the rest of us, only a matter of time.
But for now they are content with the Blue Pill.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think you underestimate the number of gamers disenfranchised by the WoW trend. I only have anecdotal evidence but many of gamers I played with and personal friends and their friends have just given up on the genre.
I think change is coming and mainly because there are still those out there with beliefs in the old school or even just change and lack of expected success of the niche created by WoW.
I see no reason to complain about those venting about their realities of the genre. When you start criticism on topics being sad on a message board it goes to ask how sad are thise makung the commentary.
There's been more variety last year with the likes of age of wyshu and planetside 2. And there's much more variety coming up with starbound, elite dangerous, everquest next, world of darkness, star citizen etc..
I miss the old days off MMOs as well. But I have to question how much of the nostalgia has to do with my own subjective mindset/wonder at the time…
I had more free time
I was WAY more into video games back then
I was easier to impress
The genre selection was much narrower
WoW hadn’t been released yet
SW:G hadn’t been overhauled yet
Of course there are systems in those older games that are lacking now (complex crafting with variable values, ACTUAL open worlds without queuing/instancing for everything, rare mobs with no guarantee on spawn times/locations, earnest in-world player/guild housing, etc.) but in almost every other regard, the games of today are a lot better than they used to be… The combat is great, the art is amazing, the tech is vastly improved…
Guild Wars 2 has pretty much everything I’ve wanted in an MMO, and yet I can’t bring myself to log in anymore.
I’m waiting for Wildstar and EQLandmark/Next with hopes that it will reignite some of that MMO passion… But I have my doubts that it will work for longer than a month or so.
At this point I’m just waiting to get into Hearthstone. I know where I stand with a TCG and it seems Blizz has nailed this pretty well.
We’ll see… It might be over, like you say. But it might be every bit as much subjective as objective."Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils." - Louis Hector Berlioz
I think you got that backwards, those trapped in the matrix are those who think their continuous complaining will solve their perceived problem, this complaining has been going on since I first visited this site in 05. The rest of us took that Red pill long ago and accepted this is the reality of the genre.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Its not really just MMOs, everything is being dumbed down, books, movies, tv. It really seems like
culture has gone into a retard mode and I am sure it is to do with the ideas of mass market and
the lovwest common denominator ie the idiot majority.
You are right that you will not find what you want here, I have given up and just dip in here and
there, enjoy bits and pieces of whats on offer but am aware that ultimately what I am playing at
the moment is not very good.
Huge difference between reality as they see it, and how everyone feels. The end of the genre is not the same as I don't like anything about it.
When do these posts every actually say, I've done it all and seen all there is to see so I think it's time FOR ME to move on ? They always say the same thing....the end is near because I'm bored.
Perfectly said. +10
No, pretty sure I got it right the first time, you'll never change your fate if you just go along with the "reality" of the situation, you'll just continue to be misled....well at least until you finally make the transition and join the rest of us.
Again, only a matter of time.....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
And don't play any MMO.
Playing/Paying for crap games, only brings more crap games.
Its not the end of the genre, because the genre is already dead and what we have now is something else.Where you display your shallowness is when you talk about "done it all", in the older games you could neverdo it all because interaction between people led to unique situations, independently of the developer.
I know full well that devs cant create enough new content to satisfy the need for something new and unique, unfortunately that is what they are trying to do - and failing miserably.
The approach and the thinking is too shallow and mechanical and that's why we produce crap all over as a society.
Right....
Cause we haven't been being fed that line for the last seven years or so. Care to name one of these indie games that actually delivered on what it promised?
I wouldn't get your hopes up, again, based on nothing more than advertising and marketing.
It aint over before the fat lady sings, but she is allready jamming on the piano.
oh how i miss the old days where people would watch their mouthies, or if they didnt usually got owned so hard they would the next time.
I' ve been playing games since the 70s, I see all the faults. I just know that when you only look for the bad in things, that's all you'll ever see. It's not about being unable to see the truth, it's about accepting what the truth is and focuing on what you really want out of them.
I play games for fun, so I focus on fininding it in them. If I wanted to sit here and bitch and moan about them....I'd go do something else. Being negative all the time is how you become a misserable person in your old age. Everything you become stems from your attitude about life and what you love to do.
I argue because just like saying everything sucks over and over...being piossitve over and over helps make it ture. People really do undersestimate how much control they have over thier own attitudes.
So no it isn't a matter of time. I know full well what becomes of people who become the people in this thread. I'll find something else to do first.
I don't mean to be downer, but isn't it also possible that it isn't just about what the old MMOs were but how things used to be for you?
Similar to the Twilight Zone episode Static, you associate good feelings from the old days with those MMOs and that's what actually want to feel again.
However you will likely find that even if an MMO were made in exact replication of the older generation of MMOs, you would not feel the same way and still find them not satisfying.
Not to say I think the new generation of MMOs are amazing by any stretch of imagination, but perhaps they are not really what is preventing you from being happy with MMOs.
This is hardly an unusual thing for us, to be nostalgic and want to relive past experiences that we now look back on as the best part of our lives, with the present seeming unchangably sad in comparison...
Played: DAoC, AC2, WoW, CoH, GW, GW2, WAR, AoC, Champions Online, Rift, Dragon Nest, Vindictus, Warframe, Neverwinter, Dungeon Fighter Online
Currently Playing: Dungeon Fighter Online Global
Waiting for: None
The difference is MMOs these days are on steroids.
10 Years ago it took 6 months to get a character to max level and you couldn't do much without help. Now you can solo to max level in 2 days.
A player used to spend weeks in a zone, now its like an hour or two.
The theme-park realm is all about who can provide the most rewards in the fastest time possible. That is the cost of going mainstream.
When players demand 'hard' aka 'grindy' games, they are going back the genre's niche roots which cannot be justified by bloated AAA budgets that rely on attracting the masses.
Its also possible that people who enjoyed MMOs 10 years ago have simply 'grown up' and no longer find the genre as satisfying since they have 'been there done that' for quite some time.
I've noticed a particular tendency in people loving the music they listened to when they were teenagers. It's like their interests get locked in at those ages.
Also even if an old school MMO was released I doubt I could play it in old school fashion. I have a full time job, wife and kid. No camping rare spawns for weeks or 3am raid calls. MMOs have changed but a wager we've changed a lot more.
Exactly. I see a burnt out MMOer who needs a break. There is no ultimate truth about the state of the industry here: just the usual polarizing negativity with the usual chip on the shoulder, just waiting to attack anyone who dares feel positive about playing MMOs.
MMOs aren't exciting you at the moment? Go do something else. Maybe they will again...maybe they won't. We all do this from time to time. But most of us aren't so selfish or delusional to believe that our own state of mind is the only one that is valid.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Change is coming? It is already here, just not back to the old school tried and failed ideas.
MOBAs, instanced pvp games like WoT, shooters like Destiny .. are the new things, replacing MMORPGs as the forefront of online games.
Don't make the erroneous assumption that if themepark is going out of favor, only the old stuff will come back. May be the answer is another radical change, and true MMORPGs are no longer the focus.
Yeah, we have changed and our priorities has changed. But the feeling of fun and community still is in my heart. Maybe I'm just imagining that things was better before............. Still..... Miss the community, players ability to selfadminister the community (by killing off idiots in the game etc.), the feeling of skill and power.
Fun certainly is in my heart. Community? Not so much.