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MMO's Cater too much to Casual.
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Personally I would love a quality MMO like you mentioned but I am skeptical that the standard casual players would play.
Historically if you go back over the ten years ago we had a bunch of MMOs that contain many of the design elements that you mentioned and it was the new casual majority that demand things change. Go back and check the forums for UO, DAOC, AC,etc.. about a year after WoW launched and really solidified casual gaming, things heated up and there were constant complaints and demands to change games to cater to the casual crowd.
Heck look at EQ2, it launch with many design elements that were popular in EQ1, slower advancement, lots of group required content, XP loss,etc... After about two years in, they followed the casual MMO dollars and things radically changes.
Sadly the MMO masses equate fun to winning with little challenge or effort, hence the villainzing of PvP where you can't be guaranteed a win.
Yeah I know:) It was sort of my point,casuals won't play a game where they have to learn to do anything,this is why 1 hotbar 'action combat' with 'dynamic' events that are more tiresome than static quests because they are repopping every 5 minutes.
Oh and I use casuals loosely,not all people that are casual because of real life commitments like simple games.
Salem ....
It makes Darkfall look completely carebare.
The mildly ironic thing about it is that there a lot of casual gamers that hate the same games you do and their reasoning is that the games are too hardcore.
Casual players hate levels, gearscore, gear grind, herioc raids, and pretty much anything else that takes a long period of time. Every game has at least a few of these features and they are anti-casual features.
The problem isn't that today's games cater to casuals, it's that they cater to everyone. Your unsatisfied, casuals are unsatisfied, crafters are unsatisfied, pvpers are unsatisfied.
People have to stop jumping at the hype machine and pass on games that aren't built specifically for them. It's the only way we're going to get these devs to stop putting out shallow garbage and start making in depth niche games.
I have a to stop you there, I think wow ushered in an era of lazy catered to gamers that moved the entire genre into a casual gamer state. I miss corpse runs, real raids, death penalty. Things that made the game dangerous for me. Wow never had that. Please don't try and trick any of those babies into thinking that game held any sort of challenge. Move out of the fire is NOT a challenging raid mechanic.
Optimizing PC games for consoles is kinda like outfitting your car for a bike trail.
I'm not even sure if the "casual" gamer is the issue. It's the entitled, complaining gamer. Typically, but not excluded to young gamers (those who only know MSWindows). The gamer who believes no matter the time spent, or the competency at which played, because he/she is paying for a game ("it's just a game" to these people), they should be able to do whatever they want, and have what ever they see.
If they don't get either they throw tantrums, make up terms like no-lifer. Say things like "I don't have the time for activity A,B,C&D (most recent mmorpgs only have 4 activities), and because I give you money, I'm entitled to these things.
Most casual gamers don't care about keeping up with the Jones. They casually go about there thing and enjoy their time spent. To bad the entitled gamer too took the casual gamer lable. Guess why? They like how that sounds and feel they can have that too.
compared to the big name games released in the past year, WoW was hardcore.
Now, they expect it all for free.
I use to play MMORPGs as a hobby. To get away. But, with each passing year the genre is reflecting RL society. Dumbed down, handouts, etc etc.
I wish companies would realize that these types don't stay around very long. They play for 30-60 days then leave. Companies should be making games for those that will stay long term. Might even attract more dedicated players.
Hardcore and MMO used in the same sentence. lol
If you compare MMOs to MMOs, then there must be some that seem hardcore.
Compare MMOs to some other game genres and it's looks like nothing more than Barbie dress-up.
It's all relative, I guess.
There is no such thing as a "real gamer". People that play videogames are gamers no matter what they play or how hard they play. My wife, spent hundreds of hours on Candy Crush Saga, is she less a gamer than me because I play BF4, Skyrim or whatever? Nope. She just likes different things than me.
Fact is, MMOs need casuals. They pay the bills. When they leave, the game dies, that's just the way it is.
How so? Those games are modeled after wow......... Ever die in wow and lose your sword or shield or anything? Ever have to carry something expensive to lose so you would get to keep gear pieces to go back and get your body? NO not in wow. All you lose is durability on your meaningless armor and 10 steps to get back to where you were. I heard wow will soon change it's name back to it's original title. "My First RPG" fisher price will have a marketing campaign by end of 2014.
Optimizing PC games for consoles is kinda like outfitting your car for a bike trail.
If I had to define a "real" gamer, that would be someone who loves gaming so much that the type of game doesn't matter. Anyone who is too restrictive about the genre of games they play isn't a "real" gamer, IMO. I think the same thing about musicians. How can you claim to be a musician -- by definition a lover of music -- and then claim you hate opera or country? It just makes no sense.
So in my mind, a "real" gamer would be just as excited playing an MMO as Candy Crush or Call of Duty.
compared to the big name games released in the past year, WoW was hardcore.
How so? Those games are modeled after wow......... Ever die in wow and lose your sword or shield or anything? Ever have to carry something expensive to lose so you would get to keep gear pieces to go back and get your body? NO not in wow. All you lose is durability on your meaningless armor and 10 steps to get back to where you were. I heard wow will soon change it's name back to it's original title. "My First RPG" fisher price will have a marketing campaign by end of 2014.
Hardcore means a heck of a lot more than death penalties. Vanilla WoW was more hardcore than the games being released right now, he is absolutely correct. Current WoW is a heck of a lot more casual than Vanilla WoW too. Vanilla WoW was very casual for the age it was released in but if it came out today we wouldn't think of it as casual. GW2 is the new casual and it is just way overboard on how casual it is to the point that it ruined the game.
Not disagreeing with you. Making the point that the mmorpgs released this year tried to out WoW, WoW. They wanted to make it more streamlined. All ups with no downs.
You're looking at it the wrong way...
Its (NOT) - A guy in a bar telling everybody hes a "real man" because of what he drinks to impress or add some self importance.
Its - A Los Angeles Clippers fan that went to the games and supported the organization through all the thousands of losses since 1984 and is now having his/her reserved seat moved back into the nosebleed section to make room for the new fans since the Clippers are winning now.
He doesnt think hes better than you.. he just wants his seat back.
Ah, so it's an entitlement issue. Typical, spoiled brat mentality in the MMO genre.
There are alot of poisonous mentalities online.
Just the other day somebody tried to say Eve wasnt a sandbox ...