Originally posted by cybersrs Kinda off topic, sorry... There will not be RAID like 10+ players? Only Dungeon 4 players?
Adventure zones will have group play from 4 to 24 in the zone. But not much known about what kind of content will be for the 24 man.
I have no problem paying a sub. In fact I would rather play a MMO with a sub than in other way. I haven't found a F2P yet that I can play for more than a few weeks. The problem is a lack of quality in F2P games IMO. Same for B2P IMO as well. But that has lead to the current problem we have with just about every new MMO.
There are so many options now that the overall quality just keeps getting worse for every type of game. That is a problem brought about by the B2P and F2P market. Very few gamers will play a game for very long. Every game has to have the same content as games that have been out for years or they fail now. Games are not allowed to grow over time, it is an all or nothing type of market. So paying a sub means years of content must be in the game on day one. That increase the cost of development that leads to needing to earn back that cash ASAP which leads to F2P for the new crop of expensive low content games with subs.
All of this is creating the bad games we have been getting. It is trying to please the masses that can never be pleased. Making it near impossible to create a sub and build type of MMO of the past. Everything has to be instant access, free or I quit, give me the world now or I will go play some other F2P and not spend a dime.
Sub games will struggle in today's market. Even if that is the best investment for a MMO IMO. I just hope ESO will have some time sinks or ways to slow players down while leveling. Because that is the only way to keep players for more than a month. Using psychology used to be called Warcrak. (the missing formula for the millions of subs) Chasing the carrot, creating frustration, that leads to a must finish attitude. Low drop rates, grinding for rep, long chain quests with a lot of travel time, and so on. Taking months to reach end game with an end game that was very difficult. Difficulty used to make players want to log in day after day. But I think that type of leveling is dead and buried.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
If you have problems controlling your spendings maybe you shoudl visit a psychologist. I have no problem with it. I spent twenty times or more on worthless subscriptions then ftp games.
Never bought something on impulse? It's quite common.
Have you ever gone through angst over a $5 impulse buy? I'm walking through Walmart and see a DVD I don't have in the $5 bin and buy it. I don't go home later and froth and churn over it. I certainly don't send Walmart letters condemning them for offering cheap stuff.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't see a value in renting my games anymore. I used to buy them before these publishers tried the "rent your mmo" deal. They didn't live up their end of the bargain of providing a return for that $180 per year, not to mention the box fees they started adding in to that cost so it's more like $240 per year. I never spent $240 for single player title with multi-player components (Doom, DukeNukem, NWN, Starcraft), let alone that much per year.
I see B2P and F2P with a cash shop as a way I can control my spending. I spend what I want when I want. If it's not worth much to me I won't spend much. If it is worth more and I appreciate the game then I'll spend more than that $240/yr. You don't control your spending with a mandatory monthly rental fee unless you stop playing. And then what, all that you've spent is null and void unless you pony up more cash. No thanks.
But with all that said, I don't care if this game is sub-locked. I think more options are good. There seem to be a lot of people here who like renting their games and I think it's good some publishers cater to that. I don't have to play every game and every publisher doesn't have to monetize my way. There is nothing wrong with them choosing this payment model in my opinion.
For me it's just a matter of convenience, no need to keep adding or taking away from my planned budget for the month. WIth a sub I know what I'll be spending on that game for the entirety of the month. IN a lot of free to play it's a matter of what I may want that month which may be more convenient for some I can see that, as it can be cheaper or even free.
What turns me off is the whole, pay this much to briefly access this specific content, pay that much to briefly access this other content, getting behind subbed friends because I didn't feel like buying xp pots this month, etc. It just seems like a system based on impulse to me. I'll play any game no matter the payment model if I like that game, I just have a specific preference. I'm not one of those guys who will denounce a game based on payment model.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by rojo6934 you know, if the game felt like a real TES game and offered more i would have paid a sub. I wont tell any details because i respect the NDA but i will say that i felt i was playing Defiance without guns. Definitelly not worth a sub.
i dont believe you at all, sorry.
i am in the beta, and alot of people i know from old and just met are too and the consensus is 100% different than yours.,
They just have to polish up some , but yeah I feel the same way. Felt like a TES game to me....
It feels TES to me as well, with a world design and art design that reminds me of DAOC.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by rojo6934 you know, if the game felt like a real TES game and offered more i would have paid a sub. I wont tell any details because i respect the NDA but i will say that i felt i was playing Defiance without guns. Definitelly not worth a sub.
i dont believe you at all, sorry.
i am in the beta, and alot of people i know from old and just met are too and the consensus is 100% different than yours.,
They just have to polish up some , but yeah I feel the same way. Felt like a TES game to me....
It feels TES to me as well, with a world design and art design that reminds me of DAOC.
for me the only real thing missing from it is the open world/sandbox that the single player games had
Originally posted by rojo6934 you know, if the game felt like a real TES game and offered more i would have paid a sub. I wont tell any details because i respect the NDA but i will say that i felt i was playing Defiance without guns. Definitelly not worth a sub.
i dont believe you at all, sorry.
i am in the beta, and alot of people i know from old and just met are too and the consensus is 100% different than yours.,
They just have to polish up some , but yeah I feel the same way. Felt like a TES game to me....
It feels TES to me as well, with a world design and art design that reminds me of DAOC.
for me the only real thing missing from it is the open world/sandbox that the single player games had
Agreed
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The open world is pretty much one of the main reasons why I enjoy Elder Scrolls games in the first place. I am looking forward to the next single player Elder Scrolls game that is not an MMO personally. This looks like half the game that Skyrim is with MMO elements thrown in.
I would say it is most definitely the way to go because you know there is no imbalance in game play,it is the same for everyone and as intended.The problem is that in now a days games,we cannot trust ANY of the developers.
I would say every single dev now is eyeing up the possibility of a sub fee for as long as it is accepted with a contingency plan on going cash shop soon after.
So what happens is you might be all happy,buy the game,sub for 3 months,then BAM cash shop starts in.You just invested time and money to a product that has changed and now you are no longer happy.I have been lucky,i joined FFXI on day 1 and it has remained true for it's entirety and maybe the only game to do so.
I will hope and prey that ESO is a sub fee forever and i hope it is a game that is actually worth it,the industry needs it.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The only problem I have with ESO starting as P2P is that when it converts to F2P, it will propogate the myth that F2P games are lower quality. The game is good.. it is just not going to survive as P2P.
Originally posted by Superman0X The only problem I have with ESO starting as P2P is that when it converts to F2P, it will propogate the myth that F2P games are lower quality. The game is good.. it is just not going to survive as P2P.
Some of the highest quality games are P2P to F2P conversions. I don't know of one MMORPG that was built with F2P from the start that doesn't amount to a carney game as you get further involved in it.
Don't you just love how these topics degenerate into the "P2Pers versus F2Pers" arguments, full of sound and fury and nerdrage?
Isn't it phenomenal, how people will fruitlessly try to "prove" how their way of spending (or not spending) their own money is somehow "better" or "smarter" than someone else's way of spending their money?
If you don't like the sub model, then go find yourself an f2p game; for the love of God, it's not like there aren't a million of them out there! And if you're like me and prefer a sub game, there are still some left and apparently more of them incoming.
And if you simply don't like the sub model, or don't have the funds to be able to afford one, that does NOT mean that the model is "dead" or that all MMOs should be f2p. Christ, people, don't you think there is enough of a sense of entitlement in this country already? And on the other end of the spectrum, if you happen to like the sub model, that most certainly doesn't mean that there's anything inherently wrong with the f2p way of playing. It never really appealed to me but that doesn't mean it hasn't appealed to quite a few others.
Good God, you people sit here and hide behind your keyboards and bash each other and the publishers and developers and everybody else....and yet the world keeps on turning and studios keep making business decisions without your input, don't they? Hmm, perhaps there's a lesson to be learned from that...
"Why would I want to loose a religion upon my people? Religions wreck from within - Empires and individuals alike! It's all the same." - God Emperor of Dune
Originally posted by Panzerbase More importantly you best hope they have a good game to offer, by all reports beta was a disaster.
By all reports? because from my experience most people seemed to enjoy it including me. Im not saying I didnt see any complaints but the majority had good things to say for its current state. If by disaster you mean bugs and other usual beta complaints like server performances than that means the beta was a success as it did what it was intended for. I really wish I could just say some hard info but I cant.
Originally posted by Panzerbase More importantly you best hope they have a good game to offer, by all reports beta was a disaster.
By all reports? because from my experience most people seemed to enjoy it including me. Im not saying I didnt see any complaints but the majority had good things to say for its current state. If by disaster you mean bugs and other usual beta complaints like server performances than that means the beta was a success as it did what it was intended for. I really wish I could just say some hard info but I cant.
Yeah I also enjoyed it, the ones who said it was a disaster are the same ones crying it won't be f2p so they can play it and then cry it won't be free enough. The desperate attempt some have to lie and post misinformation about a video game is a joke. These people have this entitlement mentality and feel they are entitled to get this game for free. If not they will post lie after lie just sad really. Well I'm glad it will be sub so we don't have to deal with that crowd. There is a reason most games don't allow f2pers in game forums.
I hate the fact that p2p for MMORPGs that aren't niche, would have me pay 15 dollars but if I didn't pay 30+ for the xpac that 15 dollars I paid only grants me to the 60 that I already paid for. Like WTF!!!!!
I hate the backlash on p2p statements too.
Even though I don't do drugs, kids don't do drugs and think before you post, I clearly didn't.
So now what did I mean or thought? The OP mentioned how annoying it'd be if not P2P becaues you'd be asked to pay extra for extra content(Don't know what F2P or B2P that is these days unless expansions) I find it ironic how even with p2p games you have to pay extra for extra content, least these days, unless WoW's xpacs or other p2p games expacs where free.
Unless TESO is pulling an EVE which hopefully then TESO will be going for niche numbers. If not and they are looking for large numbers then well...least they tried. Now if this still doesn't make any sense then I'll continue to wave the white flag.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I hate the fact that p2p for MMORPGs that aren't niche, would have me pay 15 dollars but if I didn't pay 30+ for the xpac that 15 dolars I paid only grants me to the 60 that I already paid for. Like WTF!!!!!
That is exactly what i am thinking about your post , what the heck are you babbling about
I hate the fact that p2p for MMORPGs that aren't niche, would have me pay 15 dollars but if I didn't pay 30+ for the xpac that 15 dolars I paid only grants me to the 60 that I already paid for. Like WTF!!!!!
That is exactly what i am thinking about your post , what the heck are you babbling about
kids, dont do drugs :P
I dislike drugs, but even I must admit I didn't know where I was going with that statement
I was typing and hit the post but then was like "Shit too late just leave it."
Anyway I need to edit it so...
Ah there we go post edited, and yes kids don't do drugs, they are terrible, I mean I honestly don't see anything fun with smoking(my opinion), a drink(multiple as well) every once n awhile for when the time is right isn't bad though.
Whoops almost forgot the :P
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
ESO should stay with it original model: Buy the box and play all you want or B2P
i prefer ESO go the way GTA 5 does instead of become an MMO. we dont need whole bunch of people in 1 place like Neverwinter Online. just 3-4 friend travel in Skyrim is good enough.
i'm not impress with ESO so far, it'll take more than that to get $15 a month from me. and why must be $15 amonth? $5 or $10 a month can be good for both player and game company too, unless those company too greedy
"Glad ESO will be subscription model, so I can support the developers before coming here a month after the launch and making a wall of text on how this game brings nothing new to the table and is as boring as any other mmo out there in the market right now"
Originally posted by ElRenmazuo Because not only will it be an insult to the series and make it seem cheap if it was either f2p or b2p with cash shop, it would personally kill the kind of immersion I get from playing an elder scrolls title. Just imagine logging in and the first thing that pops up is a window saying deals of the day lol. Or zoning to a new area only to be stopped and reminded I need to buy this area to go on further. Or seeing people with hair styles that werent available in character creation. I think even the console fans would have been like WTF is this.
Yeah, you know what would also kill the immersion? That little pop up message requiring you to pay that 15.00 fee every month .
Which mmo does that? Because Ive never played a sub model mmo that gives me pop up messages in game telling me to pay 15 dollars, since that 15 dollars is taken from my account automatically on the next billing date.
Oh that just screams an automatic withdraw error... Turbine would love to have a field day on your bank account.
I have never had any withdraw error in my 10+ years of mmo gaming since Ultima Online which was also subscription based, and still is. Not in Final Fantasy 11 and not in Final Fantasy XIV either. And even WoW.
I'm glad aswell that ESO will be subsrciption model, for many reasons but I wonder if 15/month is the right way to go...
For me it's perfectly fine. If it's a good game than 15$/month is nothing. But some people might think it's a good game but not good enough for 15$/month and decide to pass. And if too many pass this game it could go FTP in a couple of months and if so... well, than the doom and gloom will be all over it.
Maybe a monthly fee of 5-10$ would be perfect?? Or, no fee for expansions?
But we'll see, if it turns out to be "Skyrim Online" and done in a very good way and they make Tamriel to feel like a living breathing World and not just a game... maybe we'll have a success! 15$/month or not.
Every f2p mmo I've played that I liked I paid the optional sub, so that makes no difference to me.
If this game offers a rich, well made and full game at launch (and I expect nothing else given the very high cost of this game) and regular updates to warrant my sub then I'll be happy with it too. If they don't follow through on both of these things I wont.
The last p2p MMO I played was bare bones at launch and offers small and infrequent updates so lets see how happy we are at it being p2p when it launches.
Comments
Adventure zones will have group play from 4 to 24 in the zone. But not much known about what kind of content will be for the 24 man.
I have no problem paying a sub. In fact I would rather play a MMO with a sub than in other way. I haven't found a F2P yet that I can play for more than a few weeks. The problem is a lack of quality in F2P games IMO. Same for B2P IMO as well. But that has lead to the current problem we have with just about every new MMO.
There are so many options now that the overall quality just keeps getting worse for every type of game. That is a problem brought about by the B2P and F2P market. Very few gamers will play a game for very long. Every game has to have the same content as games that have been out for years or they fail now. Games are not allowed to grow over time, it is an all or nothing type of market. So paying a sub means years of content must be in the game on day one. That increase the cost of development that leads to needing to earn back that cash ASAP which leads to F2P for the new crop of expensive low content games with subs.
All of this is creating the bad games we have been getting. It is trying to please the masses that can never be pleased. Making it near impossible to create a sub and build type of MMO of the past. Everything has to be instant access, free or I quit, give me the world now or I will go play some other F2P and not spend a dime.
Sub games will struggle in today's market. Even if that is the best investment for a MMO IMO. I just hope ESO will have some time sinks or ways to slow players down while leveling. Because that is the only way to keep players for more than a month. Using psychology used to be called Warcrak. (the missing formula for the millions of subs) Chasing the carrot, creating frustration, that leads to a must finish attitude. Low drop rates, grinding for rep, long chain quests with a lot of travel time, and so on. Taking months to reach end game with an end game that was very difficult. Difficulty used to make players want to log in day after day. But I think that type of leveling is dead and buried.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
For me it's just a matter of convenience, no need to keep adding or taking away from my planned budget for the month. WIth a sub I know what I'll be spending on that game for the entirety of the month. IN a lot of free to play it's a matter of what I may want that month which may be more convenient for some I can see that, as it can be cheaper or even free.
What turns me off is the whole, pay this much to briefly access this specific content, pay that much to briefly access this other content, getting behind subbed friends because I didn't feel like buying xp pots this month, etc. It just seems like a system based on impulse to me. I'll play any game no matter the payment model if I like that game, I just have a specific preference. I'm not one of those guys who will denounce a game based on payment model.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It feels TES to me as well, with a world design and art design that reminds me of DAOC.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
for me the only real thing missing from it is the open world/sandbox that the single player games had
Agreed
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I would say it is most definitely the way to go because you know there is no imbalance in game play,it is the same for everyone and as intended.The problem is that in now a days games,we cannot trust ANY of the developers.
I would say every single dev now is eyeing up the possibility of a sub fee for as long as it is accepted with a contingency plan on going cash shop soon after.
So what happens is you might be all happy,buy the game,sub for 3 months,then BAM cash shop starts in.You just invested time and money to a product that has changed and now you are no longer happy.I have been lucky,i joined FFXI on day 1 and it has remained true for it's entirety and maybe the only game to do so.
I will hope and prey that ESO is a sub fee forever and i hope it is a game that is actually worth it,the industry needs it.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Some of the highest quality games are P2P to F2P conversions. I don't know of one MMORPG that was built with F2P from the start that doesn't amount to a carney game as you get further involved in it.
Don't you just love how these topics degenerate into the "P2Pers versus F2Pers" arguments, full of sound and fury and nerdrage?
Isn't it phenomenal, how people will fruitlessly try to "prove" how their way of spending (or not spending) their own money is somehow "better" or "smarter" than someone else's way of spending their money?
If you don't like the sub model, then go find yourself an f2p game; for the love of God, it's not like there aren't a million of them out there! And if you're like me and prefer a sub game, there are still some left and apparently more of them incoming.
And if you simply don't like the sub model, or don't have the funds to be able to afford one, that does NOT mean that the model is "dead" or that all MMOs should be f2p. Christ, people, don't you think there is enough of a sense of entitlement in this country already? And on the other end of the spectrum, if you happen to like the sub model, that most certainly doesn't mean that there's anything inherently wrong with the f2p way of playing. It never really appealed to me but that doesn't mean it hasn't appealed to quite a few others.
Good God, you people sit here and hide behind your keyboards and bash each other and the publishers and developers and everybody else....and yet the world keeps on turning and studios keep making business decisions without your input, don't they? Hmm, perhaps there's a lesson to be learned from that...
"Why would I want to loose a religion upon my people? Religions wreck from within - Empires and individuals alike! It's all the same." - God Emperor of Dune
im happy to see its gonna be a Subscription to play.
the price range now a days is payable anyway 
Looking forward to play this game!
Be the change you want to see in the world.
- Mahatma Gandhi
By all reports? because from my experience most people seemed to enjoy it including me. Im not saying I didnt see any complaints but the majority had good things to say for its current state. If by disaster you mean bugs and other usual beta complaints like server performances than that means the beta was a success as it did what it was intended for. I really wish I could just say some hard info but I cant.
Yeah I also enjoyed it, the ones who said it was a disaster are the same ones crying it won't be f2p so they can play it and then cry it won't be free enough. The desperate attempt some have to lie and post misinformation about a video game is a joke. These people have this entitlement mentality and feel they are entitled to get this game for free. If not they will post lie after lie just sad really. Well I'm glad it will be sub so we don't have to deal with that crowd. There is a reason most games don't allow f2pers in game forums.
Signed.
I too am glad this game will be a sub based game. I hope that it gets and holds enough subscribers to keep it that way for a long time.
No bitchers.
I hate the fact that p2p for MMORPGs that aren't niche, would have me pay 15 dollars but if I didn't pay 30+ for the xpac that 15 dollars I paid only grants me to the 60 that I already paid for. Like WTF!!!!!
I hate the backlash on p2p statements too.
Even though I don't do drugs, kids don't do drugs and think before you post, I clearly didn't.
So now what did I mean or thought? The OP mentioned how annoying it'd be if not P2P becaues you'd be asked to pay extra for extra content(Don't know what F2P or B2P that is these days unless expansions) I find it ironic how even with p2p games you have to pay extra for extra content, least these days, unless WoW's xpacs or other p2p games expacs where free.
Unless TESO is pulling an EVE which hopefully then TESO will be going for niche numbers. If not and they are looking for large numbers then well...least they tried. Now if this still doesn't make any sense then I'll continue to wave the white flag.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
That is exactly what i am thinking about your post , what the heck are you babbling about
kids, dont do drugs :P
over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...
I dislike drugs, but even I must admit I didn't know where I was going with that statement
I was typing and hit the post but then was like "Shit too late just leave it."
Anyway I need to edit it so...
Ah there we go post edited, and yes kids don't do drugs, they are terrible, I mean I honestly don't see anything fun with smoking(my opinion), a drink(multiple as well) every once n awhile for when the time is right isn't bad though.
Whoops almost forgot the :P
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
ESO should stay with it original model: Buy the box and play all you want or B2P
i prefer ESO go the way GTA 5 does instead of become an MMO. we dont need whole bunch of people in 1 place like Neverwinter Online. just 3-4 friend travel in Skyrim is good enough.
i'm not impress with ESO so far, it'll take more than that to get $15 a month from me. and why must be $15 amonth? $5 or $10 a month can be good for both player and game company too, unless those company too greedy
In full support of the subscription model-/
I have never had any withdraw error in my 10+ years of mmo gaming since Ultima Online which was also subscription based, and still is. Not in Final Fantasy 11 and not in Final Fantasy XIV either. And even WoW.
I'm glad aswell that ESO will be subsrciption model, for many reasons but I wonder if 15/month is the right way to go...
For me it's perfectly fine. If it's a good game than 15$/month is nothing. But some people might think it's a good game but not good enough for 15$/month and decide to pass. And if too many pass this game it could go FTP in a couple of months and if so... well, than the doom and gloom will be all over it.
Maybe a monthly fee of 5-10$ would be perfect?? Or, no fee for expansions?
But we'll see, if it turns out to be "Skyrim Online" and done in a very good way and they make Tamriel to feel like a living breathing World and not just a game... maybe we'll have a success! 15$/month or not.
Every f2p mmo I've played that I liked I paid the optional sub, so that makes no difference to me.
If this game offers a rich, well made and full game at launch (and I expect nothing else given the very high cost of this game) and regular updates to warrant my sub then I'll be happy with it too. If they don't follow through on both of these things I wont.
The last p2p MMO I played was bare bones at launch and offers small and infrequent updates so lets see how happy we are at it being p2p when it launches.