I am not an 'old school' player. I see a lot of pointless activity there. However, I can understand and even support the idea that if someone likes a particular type of game, they want a new rendition of it that stays faithful to the 'original'.
There's nothing wrong with wanting something, there most certainly is something wrong with expecting companies to cater to your desires, just because you think they owe you something. I don't mind old-school players wanting that kind of game play but they have to have realistic expectations and most of them don't just wish for old-school play to return, they demand it.
People on this site sure won't like this opinion, but I'm starting to feel like the new consoles will be the rebirth of the mmo. I currently don't play any on consoles, but many of my pals do and specifically like not being hunched over their computer table to play a game. With revamped console friendly interfaces and casual hour-at-time type content, I feel games like TESO will really flourish on consoles.
We know that EQ next will be coming to PS4 along with FF14, TESO and DCUO. I don't think it will take long with the sales of Ghost and GTA 5 for developers to start putting 2 and 2 together. Sales for PC's are at historic lows. Although the PC game is far from dead, it won't be able to compete with sales from these new consoles. The devs follow the money.
And please don't start giving me this "under-powered" crap. Specs can't be compared pound for pound due to scaling. Games on the consoles can be tweaked due to a specific set of hardware to squeeze every inch of goodness out of the hardware; whereas games for PC's have to scale with millions of hardware combinations. This is why they are able to accomplish graphics that are on par with a much more power PC. I mean really, the 360 and ps3 were 8 years old and still had games that looked just as good as they did on the average players PC.
I've seen these new machines in action, as have many of you.. and it's impressive. There are still some minor differences and PC will continue to look slightly better (with a powerful enough PC) but the gap in performance/appearance is smaller then ever. I know that I wouldn't mind playing a game like TESO on a ps4.
You all need to take the blame for not buying games from developers that try go outside of the normal games.
Game developers know that to make money they have to make the game almost exactly like WoW, only with some small changes.
While games like The Secret World are largely ignored and few play it because its not familiar and go the wow route.
So take the blame yourself instead of blaming game developers.
Why should someone take blame for liking a game? Do you realize how ridiculous you sound? I'm currently playing WoW. I like WoW.. else, I wouldn't play it. So I should feel bad and take blame for giving my money to Blizzard for making a game I enjoy? Weird. I suppose I should support other developers who make a game I don't like just to keep them making games I don't like. That would make a lot more sense.....
Games aren't being made for gamers by gamers anymore. Like everything in the world it is all about the dollar now. There is only two quality games right now I enjoy.. Path of Exile, and League of Legends, both companies give a completely free good product and make money off non-pay to win stuff. I despised Guild Wars 2, I despised how easy and dumbed now World of Warcraft has become, and these linear worlds I keep seeing. WHY CAN'T I GO OVER THE MOUNTAIN? WHY CAN'T I STUMBLE ACROSS SOME RANDOM DUNGEON NONE OF MY FRIENDS HAVE VENTURED OUT FAR ENOUGH TO SEE. Why can't I find 'my own hidden' hunting spots. Why are we getting smaller? easier? slower? less skills? less housing, creativity modification, than we did in 2005?
Well honestly, with the advent of the internet, there is no such thing as exploration in games. Hours after content is released, there are guides and pictures showing where everything is and what to do about it when you get there. If those games had been released now, you'd have the same problems. No exploration, no way of finding the unknown. The only way that something like that will ever happen again is something with a world like Minecraft and a dynamic content engine with enough sophistication to make it intreresting. (In other words, no likely any time soon).
If your hidden hunting spots are lucrative, the masses will be there, as someone else will have found it and published it.
Dev's are smart. They know this. Making an exploration game is a futile exercise until you have some way of generating limitless terrain and content. All you do otherwise is forstall the inevitable. Thus, they might as well please the folks that want an easier time between bouts of content since they are never going to be able to please the crowd that wants more and more until they solve that fundamental problem.
The second issue is that MMO's are flawed as a whole. With linear progression, you are esentially eliminating content that you could experience every time your character progresses. So as the player base diversifies, the Devs have an exponentially harder time trying to cater to all of the interests and make content for everyone to consume. The people at Max level want more endgame. The people who like alts want more diverse paths. The RPers want varried content at all levels and emotes and spaces to explore. All of that needs to be done among the various level bands.
Until they either come up with good dynamic content, or get rid of linear progression, they will never satisfy people long term.
Originally posted by lizardbonesI am not an 'old school' player. I see a lot of pointless activity there. However, I can understand and even support the idea that if someone likes a particular type of game, they want a new rendition of it that stays faithful to the 'original'.
There's nothing wrong with wanting something, there most certainly is something wrong with expecting companies to cater to your desires, just because you think they owe you something. I don't mind old-school players wanting that kind of game play but they have to have realistic expectations and most of them don't just wish for old-school play to return, they demand it.
That's a problem.
Well, it's not that much of a problem for the industry. Mostly it's just a problem for the people who want something that doesn't seem likely to materialize. Not anytime soon anyway. Then again, when games like Final Fantasy or that Wizards game release and have things like slow leveling, and then people continue to not play it, I have to wonder what the actual criteria is for the games that they want.
**
I mean, people played WoW, Eve and even SWToR in spite of the issues they encountered. Very few people are playing a game that has all the features and build quality they want. If a new game releases that has many of the features of an 'old school' game, I have to wonder why someone who is into 'old school' games doesn't want to play it.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by lizardbonesI am not an 'old school' player. I see a lot of pointless activity there. However, I can understand and even support the idea that if someone likes a particular type of game, they want a new rendition of it that stays faithful to the 'original'.
There's nothing wrong with wanting something, there most certainly is something wrong with expecting companies to cater to your desires, just because you think they owe you something. I don't mind old-school players wanting that kind of game play but they have to have realistic expectations and most of them don't just wish for old-school play to return, they demand it.
That's a problem.
Well, it's not that much of a problem for the industry. Mostly it's just a problem for the people who want something that doesn't seem likely to materialize. Not anytime soon anyway. Then again, when games like Final Fantasy or that Wizards game release and have things like slow leveling, and then people continue to not play it, I have to wonder what the actual criteria is for the games that they want.
**
I mean, people played WoW, Eve and even SWToR in spite of the issues they encountered. Very few people are playing a game that has all the features and build quality they want. If a new game releases that has many of the features of an 'old school' game, I have to wonder why someone who is into 'old school' games doesn't want to play it.
I agree that some people have unrealistic expectations. They want a niche game catered to exactly their taste, but with a major market budget.
We have to support the smaller but innovative games, or we will have a long boring wait ahead. With the market still growing there is too little incentive for the big companies to change their ways and start taking risks.
The shortcut is to support the smaller studios that are innovative now, and help them strive towards more success and bigger budgets. Help to get the snowball rolling.
Originally posted by lizardbonesI am not an 'old school' player. I see a lot of pointless activity there. However, I can understand and even support the idea that if someone likes a particular type of game, they want a new rendition of it that stays faithful to the 'original'.
There's nothing wrong with wanting something, there most certainly is something wrong with expecting companies to cater to your desires, just because you think they owe you something. I don't mind old-school players wanting that kind of game play but they have to have realistic expectations and most of them don't just wish for old-school play to return, they demand it.
That's a problem.
Well, it's not that much of a problem for the industry. Mostly it's just a problem for the people who want something that doesn't seem likely to materialize. Not anytime soon anyway. Then again, when games like Final Fantasy or that Wizards game release and have things like slow leveling, and then people continue to not play it, I have to wonder what the actual criteria is for the games that they want.
**
I mean, people played WoW, Eve and even SWToR in spite of the issues they encountered. Very few people are playing a game that has all the features and build quality they want. If a new game releases that has many of the features of an 'old school' game, I have to wonder why someone who is into 'old school' games doesn't want to play it.
An asian grinder just because it has grinding PvE doesnt make it 'old school' I played the new FF that re-released recently it isnt any different from any other MMO that has come out only it has lest choices, less customization, and the same boring quest hubs quest to quest to quest, and even less innovative combat.
I dotn think we're asking SPECIFICALLY for a niche game.
Give us a big world, give us an equally effective GRIND -OR- quest play style, give us places to explore OR run dungeons. I mean we're asking for the -OR- not the -ONLY-
atleast I am, I find it hard to believe they cant balance a game to give both play styles. Currenly games like WoW etc, it is only about 30-40% as fast to grind as it is to quest. make it closer to 90% and a lot of older style players would be happy but its not just about grinding damnit.
We want big open world, pvp, housing, guilds, guild housing MORE immersion, MORE community, and we get less, less ,less ,less.
I feel the same way, OP. I too frequent new MMOs just to be disappointed and bored in a month or two. I keep going back to my first love, FFXI. There is a special place in my heart for this game and it seems I will probably play till they shut the servers off.
ya i think we are revisiting some consistent complaints and questions here.
1. what happened to virtual worlds?
2. why has gaming seemingly gone backward while the technology has been moving forward?
Because it's expensive.
I'm not going to get into how easy it is for things to be instant dealbreakers with some people. Archeage has teddy bear costumes and race cars? Pfft, hype -5.
For some of you, yes this hobby is done for the time being. Game over, time to do something else with your free time.
Op if you want to know what happened, it is simple the customers spoke with their money and chose games like World of Warcraft. I too am an old school gamer, started with asherons call myself and I do find it sad how these games went away from becoming virtual worlds but it is what the market wants to pay for. There are games like the old school games, ac, eq, daoc are all still going plus you have mortal online, eve, darkfall which all offer that old school type of gameplay. You can choose to support what you like or you can do what I did and support one of the newer games and enjoy it for what it is. I chose world of tanks and wow as my mmo simply because I am older, I don't have the time I once did and I want to progress before I die of old age. Wow is a great themepark game that at the very least you have to work for what you want a little bit, rep grinds and achievement hunting takes a bit, getting rare exotic mounts and pets take some time, wow is not as dumbed down as people want to say it is, it just has linear no exploration questing that is really not very engaging except for maybe the first time through.
I do miss the old days of massive pk fights over tusker isle, and the various olthoi dungeons but that type of thing is in the past, we can either move on or keep making posts about the good old days, but to me I am moving on and just enjoying games for what they are now.
Originally posted by Spector88 Originally posted by lizardbonesOriginally posted by Cephus404Originally posted by lizardbonesI am not an 'old school' player. I see a lot of pointless activity there. However, I can understand and even support the idea that if someone likes a particular type of game, they want a new rendition of it that stays faithful to the 'original'.
There's nothing wrong with wanting something, there most certainly is something wrong with expecting companies to cater to your desires, just because you think they owe you something. I don't mind old-school players wanting that kind of game play but they have to have realistic expectations and most of them don't just wish for old-school play to return, they demand it.That's a problem. Well, it's not that much of a problem for the industry. Mostly it's just a problem for the people who want something that doesn't seem likely to materialize. Not anytime soon anyway. Then again, when games like Final Fantasy or that Wizards game release and have things like slow leveling, and then people continue to not play it, I have to wonder what the actual criteria is for the games that they want. ** I mean, people played WoW, Eve and even SWToR in spite of the issues they encountered. Very few people are playing a game that has all the features and build quality they want. If a new game releases that has many of the features of an 'old school' game, I have to wonder why someone who is into 'old school' games doesn't want to play it. An asian grinder just because it has grinding PvE doesnt make it 'old school' I played the new FF that re-released recently it isnt any different from any other MMO that has come out only it has lest choices, less customization, and the same boring quest hubs quest to quest to quest, and even less innovative combat.
I dotn think we're asking SPECIFICALLY for a niche game.
Give us a big world, give us an equally effective GRIND -OR- quest play style, give us places to explore OR run dungeons. I mean we're asking for the -OR- not the -ONLY-
atleast I am, I find it hard to believe they cant balance a game to give both play styles. Currenly games like WoW etc, it is only about 30-40% as fast to grind as it is to quest. make it closer to 90% and a lot of older style players would be happy but its not just about grinding damnit.
We want big open world, pvp, housing, guilds, guild housing MORE immersion, MORE community, and we get less, less ,less ,less.
Like I said, I can totally understand wanting something, whether it exists or not, even whether it's likely to exist or not. Not sure that type of game is going to happen though. It doesn't seem too likely. It might be time to look for the closest alternative, or find something else completely.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Honestly the genre will never be the same. Competition & Dev costs have driven companies to create mass market games... the mass market gamers would never have played the old school MMOs. Lineage 2 was the last MMO that I really enjoyed... tried MANY after that and outside of EVE for a little while..... hated them all.
Originally posted by Cephus404 This is just more old school whining. Oh no, it's so horrible that the world doesn't stand still so I can do things I used to enjoy doing! There are tons of things that I've loved doing over the years that I no longer do because either the hobby has changed or I have. That's called reality. Old school gamers need to deal with it. They've stopped and the rest of the planet has moved on. The problem is them, not everyone else.
This argument would be more valid if your 'new school games' werent barren wastelands after 6 months. You're games are selling boxes, but not keeping subs or players. So maybe we're right, and you're wrong
News flash for you, that's how the games industry works. Someone puts out a game, lots of people buy it, lots of people play it and they all move on to the next game. The life cycle of virtually all games is like that. There are virtually no games that people cling to for years on end.
Games. You're playing them wrong.
Just wrong.
Counter Strike, League of Legends, Dota 1/2, Battlefield 1-4, Starcraft 1&2, Eve Online.. all those games are still alive and a lot of players play them very regulary. Even some mainly single player games like Civilizations or Football Manager are played regulary over many years.
Just heavy story based games, or games with very linear and not dynamic content are played for just a few hours/days/weeks, to consume the linear content and the story... but not all games are based on linear content or/and story telling.
We're just in a lull in the genre right now. Things will change in time and I'm sure a new MMO will emerge eventually that "hardcore" gamers can get behind. How long that will be, however, is anyone's guess.
On a side note: it's getting really irritating when people get on here and tell others that if they want to play a certain way their only choices are washed-up titles and that they should be grateful to have them. It only serves to point out how desperate players really are that they are still willing to play has-been games because they've been systematically excluded from new titles.
We're just in a lull in the genre right now. Things will change in time and I'm sure a new MMO will emerge eventually that "hardcore" gamers can get behind. How long that will be, however, is anyone's guess.
On a side note: it's getting really irritating when people get on here and tell others that if they want to play a certain way their only choices are washed-up titles and that they should be grateful to have them. It only serves to point out how desperate players really are that they are still willing to play has-been games because they've been systematically excluded from new titles.
Actually what most people have said is, "Put your money where your mouth is and don't expect something without showing the industry the money." If they can't do that then they don't get what they want. They can stamp their virtual feet and gnash their virtual teeth all the virtual day long, but it won't change anything. If they are a market force they should make their voice heard in a way that equals dollar signs. If they do that, then "they" will make it.
I was there, "back in the day", and while I miss some of what that era had to offer, I like a lot of what new games have to offer. One thing I think is odd is that these people want a static snapshot of development implementation in what is considered a constantly evolving genre.
I don't think anyone is asking for the genre to remain completely static, but that also doesn't mean that everything that was in old games was bad and that everything in new games is good. I certainly am more than ready to put my money down but can't find a title worth spending it on.
Maybe it's easier to think about this is non game terms.
You can't really say that nobody wants a sports car when all that's being sold are family sedans and if people wanted sports cars than they'd obviously buy one. It's true that a lot more people want family cars than want sports cars, but that doesn't mean that there aren't more than enough sports car enthusiasts to warrant the product and the only options shouldn't be "classic" sports cars because of a lack of new options. Everyone should have the chance to purchase a newly designed vehicle with more features, better gas mileage, etc. I wouldn't expect my sports car to be a good family car and I wouldn't expect a family car to be a good sports car.
I'm glad that you as a consumer are perfectly happy with what is being offered. There are obviously many who are not.
Originally posted by lizardbonesI am not an 'old school' player. I see a lot of pointless activity there. However, I can understand and even support the idea that if someone likes a particular type of game, they want a new rendition of it that stays faithful to the 'original'.
There's nothing wrong with wanting something, there most certainly is something wrong with expecting companies to cater to your desires, just because you think they owe you something. I don't mind old-school players wanting that kind of game play but they have to have realistic expectations and most of them don't just wish for old-school play to return, they demand it.
That's a problem.
Well, it's not that much of a problem for the industry. Mostly it's just a problem for the people who want something that doesn't seem likely to materialize. Not anytime soon anyway. Then again, when games like Final Fantasy or that Wizards game release and have things like slow leveling, and then people continue to not play it, I have to wonder what the actual criteria is for the games that they want.
**
I mean, people played WoW, Eve and even SWToR in spite of the issues they encountered. Very few people are playing a game that has all the features and build quality they want. If a new game releases that has many of the features of an 'old school' game, I have to wonder why someone who is into 'old school' games doesn't want to play it.
But those are the people who we have to listen to here constantly, the people who have hated every game since EQ and demand that the industry make an old-school game that they want, even if there's no money in it and not enough people who demonstrably want such a game.
My first MMO. I was one of the lucky ones who experienced AC from beta, to launch + 4yrs or so. It has been a curse also - as every MMO I've played to date has failed to recapture the magic that was Asheron's Call. I don't think I'll ever find a game that can recreate the magic that was AC.
I've written a number of posts about AC over the years. I've gone back and played the game a few times as well... but she is lonely girl now, and I've grown cynical. I still look forward to new games and I keep looking for the magic - I see a glimpse every now and again - but it is fleeting... and truth be told I am getting tired of looking.
I think the golden glory days for MMO's are gone. The King is dead. Long live the King!
The difference, in my opinion, is back in the "old days" - they used to build huge, immersive worlds that could transport you out of this one and into that one, where you could literally have a second life. You could lose yourself in that world and it was such a nice escape from reality. Things took a lot of time to master and accomplish and you really cherished the reward you received for the mass amount of effort you put in.
We used to think Blizzard broke MMO's forever and they very well might have. I don't want to give credit where it may not be due but World of Warcraft really was the pivotal point that made console game developers turn their heads and look at the MMO market with more serious intent. That coupled with the price of computers dropping and computers becoming more mainstream in every household brought just an immense amount of money to the MMO market.
So now the MMO's seem to be written more for console gamers. I've had console gamer friends tell me, "Back before I started playing MMO's, I was spending $100 bucks a month or more on games". I think that's the player the MMO developer has catered to since WoW, flash in the pan, burn through content, throw money at F2P or P2W. Over the long run, it's probably not too hard to break even if you give a player, say, 80-100 hours of gametime, like console games and then expect them to pay for more. That is nothing compared to the size of Norrath, that took month and months, maybe longer to originally explore.
It took me almost 8 months to hit level 60 on my first toon in WoW. Now, people race to max level and if it takes longer than a week everyone is surprised. I think FFXIV had it's first level 50 on day 9 or something.
We're just in a lull in the genre right now. Things will change in time and I'm sure a new MMO will emerge eventually that "hardcore" gamers can get behind. How long that will be, however, is anyone's guess.
On a side note: it's getting really irritating when people get on here and tell others that if they want to play a certain way their only choices are washed-up titles and that they should be grateful to have them. It only serves to point out how desperate players really are that they are still willing to play has-been games because they've been systematically excluded from new titles.
Actually what most people have said is, "Put your money where your mouth is and don't expect something without showing the industry the money."
Haha what?
The solution to a 9 year long slump and regression in the genre is to "put our money" into a game that doesn't exist?
If publishers listened to money they'd have stopped trying to make WoW clones year ago, yet big profile failure after big profile failure, all the WoW clones crumble, AoC, Rift, SWTOR, and yet more come...
We're just in a lull in the genre right now. Things will change in time and I'm sure a new MMO will emerge eventually that "hardcore" gamers can get behind. How long that will be, however, is anyone's guess.
On a side note: it's getting really irritating when people get on here and tell others that if they want to play a certain way their only choices are washed-up titles and that they should be grateful to have them. It only serves to point out how desperate players really are that they are still willing to play has-been games because they've been systematically excluded from new titles.
Actually what most people have said is, "Put your money where your mouth is and don't expect something without showing the industry the money."
Haha what?
The solution to a 9 year long slump and regression in the genre is to "put our money" into a game that doesn't exist?
If publishers listened to money they'd have stopped trying to make WoW clones year ago, yet big profile failure after big profile failure, all the WoW clones crumble, AoC, Rift, SWTOR, and yet more come...
Haha yeah they dont exist.
And look at the ones who MIGHT fit the mold, I mean Darkfall Unholy Wars is such a friggin disaster. They're OWN playerbase /wrists themselves all day.
Once you take the difficulty and risk vs. reward out of MMO's, you aren't left with much. The gameplay isn't fun on it's own compared to most other genre's. MMO's need true challenge and danger to be fully engaging.
Originally posted by Cephus404 Originally posted by lizardbonesOriginally posted by Cephus404Originally posted by lizardbonesI am not an 'old school' player. I see a lot of pointless activity there. However, I can understand and even support the idea that if someone likes a particular type of game, they want a new rendition of it that stays faithful to the 'original'.
There's nothing wrong with wanting something, there most certainly is something wrong with expecting companies to cater to your desires, just because you think they owe you something. I don't mind old-school players wanting that kind of game play but they have to have realistic expectations and most of them don't just wish for old-school play to return, they demand it.That's a problem. Well, it's not that much of a problem for the industry. Mostly it's just a problem for the people who want something that doesn't seem likely to materialize. Not anytime soon anyway. Then again, when games like Final Fantasy or that Wizards game release and have things like slow leveling, and then people continue to not play it, I have to wonder what the actual criteria is for the games that they want. ** I mean, people played WoW, Eve and even SWToR in spite of the issues they encountered. Very few people are playing a game that has all the features and build quality they want. If a new game releases that has many of the features of an 'old school' game, I have to wonder why someone who is into 'old school' games doesn't want to play it. But those are the people who we have to listen to here constantly, the people who have hated every game since EQ and demand that the industry make an old-school game that they want, even if there's no money in it and not enough people who demonstrably want such a game.
We don't really have to listen to them. There's nothing that says people must engage in conversations with people who have views that are directly opposed to their own.
It's not possible to challenge other peoples' viewpoints without challenging your own viewpoint. For good or ill, advancing your own cause means getting somewhat involved in the cause of someone else.
But let's be honest. If "those people" weren't here, most of "us" wouldn't be here either. The opposing viewpoints are the blood that flows through this site's heart. Without them the heart wouldn't beat.
So yes, we listen to them even though we don't have to because the alternative would be silence.
Got a little dramatic there. Sorry.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by lizardbonesI am not an 'old school' player. I see a lot of pointless activity there. However, I can understand and even support the idea that if someone likes a particular type of game, they want a new rendition of it that stays faithful to the 'original'.
There's nothing wrong with wanting something, there most certainly is something wrong with expecting companies to cater to your desires, just because you think they owe you something. I don't mind old-school players wanting that kind of game play but they have to have realistic expectations and most of them don't just wish for old-school play to return, they demand it.That's a problem.
Well, it's not that much of a problem for the industry. Mostly it's just a problem for the people who want something that doesn't seem likely to materialize. Not anytime soon anyway. Then again, when games like Final Fantasy or that Wizards game release and have things like slow leveling, and then people continue to not play it, I have to wonder what the actual criteria is for the games that they want. ** I mean, people played WoW, Eve and even SWToR in spite of the issues they encountered. Very few people are playing a game that has all the features and build quality they want. If a new game releases that has many of the features of an 'old school' game, I have to wonder why someone who is into 'old school' games doesn't want to play it.
But those are the people who we have to listen to here constantly, the people who have hated every game since EQ and demand that the industry make an old-school game that they want, even if there's no money in it and not enough people who demonstrably want such a game.
We don't really have to listen to them. There's nothing that says people must engage in conversations with people who have views that are directly opposed to their own.
It's not possible to challenge other peoples' viewpoints without challenging your own viewpoint. For good or ill, advancing your own cause means getting somewhat involved in the cause of someone else.
But let's be honest. If "those people" weren't here, most of "us" wouldn't be here either. The opposing viewpoints are the blood that flows through this site's heart. Without them the heart wouldn't beat.
So yes, we listen to them even though we don't have to because the alternative would be silence.
Got a little dramatic there. Sorry.
I agree, a forum where everyone agrees would be quite boring.
I like that people are passionate about these topics, shows how much we all care about our favorite hobby.
Comments
There's nothing wrong with wanting something, there most certainly is something wrong with expecting companies to cater to your desires, just because you think they owe you something. I don't mind old-school players wanting that kind of game play but they have to have realistic expectations and most of them don't just wish for old-school play to return, they demand it.
That's a problem.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
You all need to take the blame for not buying games from developers that try go outside of the normal games.
Game developers know that to make money they have to make the game almost exactly like WoW, only with some small changes.
While games like The Secret World are largely ignored and few play it because its not familiar and go the wow route.
So take the blame yourself instead of blaming game developers.
People on this site sure won't like this opinion, but I'm starting to feel like the new consoles will be the rebirth of the mmo. I currently don't play any on consoles, but many of my pals do and specifically like not being hunched over their computer table to play a game. With revamped console friendly interfaces and casual hour-at-time type content, I feel games like TESO will really flourish on consoles.
We know that EQ next will be coming to PS4 along with FF14, TESO and DCUO. I don't think it will take long with the sales of Ghost and GTA 5 for developers to start putting 2 and 2 together. Sales for PC's are at historic lows. Although the PC game is far from dead, it won't be able to compete with sales from these new consoles. The devs follow the money.
And please don't start giving me this "under-powered" crap. Specs can't be compared pound for pound due to scaling. Games on the consoles can be tweaked due to a specific set of hardware to squeeze every inch of goodness out of the hardware; whereas games for PC's have to scale with millions of hardware combinations. This is why they are able to accomplish graphics that are on par with a much more power PC. I mean really, the 360 and ps3 were 8 years old and still had games that looked just as good as they did on the average players PC.
I've seen these new machines in action, as have many of you.. and it's impressive. There are still some minor differences and PC will continue to look slightly better (with a powerful enough PC) but the gap in performance/appearance is smaller then ever. I know that I wouldn't mind playing a game like TESO on a ps4.
Why should someone take blame for liking a game? Do you realize how ridiculous you sound? I'm currently playing WoW. I like WoW.. else, I wouldn't play it. So I should feel bad and take blame for giving my money to Blizzard for making a game I enjoy? Weird. I suppose I should support other developers who make a game I don't like just to keep them making games I don't like. That would make a lot more sense.....
Well honestly, with the advent of the internet, there is no such thing as exploration in games. Hours after content is released, there are guides and pictures showing where everything is and what to do about it when you get there. If those games had been released now, you'd have the same problems. No exploration, no way of finding the unknown. The only way that something like that will ever happen again is something with a world like Minecraft and a dynamic content engine with enough sophistication to make it intreresting. (In other words, no likely any time soon).
If your hidden hunting spots are lucrative, the masses will be there, as someone else will have found it and published it.
Dev's are smart. They know this. Making an exploration game is a futile exercise until you have some way of generating limitless terrain and content. All you do otherwise is forstall the inevitable. Thus, they might as well please the folks that want an easier time between bouts of content since they are never going to be able to please the crowd that wants more and more until they solve that fundamental problem.
The second issue is that MMO's are flawed as a whole. With linear progression, you are esentially eliminating content that you could experience every time your character progresses. So as the player base diversifies, the Devs have an exponentially harder time trying to cater to all of the interests and make content for everyone to consume. The people at Max level want more endgame. The people who like alts want more diverse paths. The RPers want varried content at all levels and emotes and spaces to explore. All of that needs to be done among the various level bands.
Until they either come up with good dynamic content, or get rid of linear progression, they will never satisfy people long term.
Well, it's not that much of a problem for the industry. Mostly it's just a problem for the people who want something that doesn't seem likely to materialize. Not anytime soon anyway. Then again, when games like Final Fantasy or that Wizards game release and have things like slow leveling, and then people continue to not play it, I have to wonder what the actual criteria is for the games that they want.
**
I mean, people played WoW, Eve and even SWToR in spite of the issues they encountered. Very few people are playing a game that has all the features and build quality they want. If a new game releases that has many of the features of an 'old school' game, I have to wonder why someone who is into 'old school' games doesn't want to play it.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I agree that some people have unrealistic expectations. They want a niche game catered to exactly their taste, but with a major market budget.
We have to support the smaller but innovative games, or we will have a long boring wait ahead. With the market still growing there is too little incentive for the big companies to change their ways and start taking risks.
The shortcut is to support the smaller studios that are innovative now, and help them strive towards more success and bigger budgets. Help to get the snowball rolling.
An asian grinder just because it has grinding PvE doesnt make it 'old school' I played the new FF that re-released recently it isnt any different from any other MMO that has come out only it has lest choices, less customization, and the same boring quest hubs quest to quest to quest, and even less innovative combat.
I dotn think we're asking SPECIFICALLY for a niche game.
Give us a big world, give us an equally effective GRIND -OR- quest play style, give us places to explore OR run dungeons. I mean we're asking for the -OR- not the -ONLY-
atleast I am, I find it hard to believe they cant balance a game to give both play styles. Currenly games like WoW etc, it is only about 30-40% as fast to grind as it is to quest. make it closer to 90% and a lot of older style players would be happy but its not just about grinding damnit.
We want big open world, pvp, housing, guilds, guild housing MORE immersion, MORE community, and we get less, less ,less ,less.
Because it's expensive.
I'm not going to get into how easy it is for things to be instant dealbreakers with some people. Archeage has teddy bear costumes and race cars? Pfft, hype -5.
For some of you, yes this hobby is done for the time being. Game over, time to do something else with your free time.
Op if you want to know what happened, it is simple the customers spoke with their money and chose games like World of Warcraft. I too am an old school gamer, started with asherons call myself and I do find it sad how these games went away from becoming virtual worlds but it is what the market wants to pay for. There are games like the old school games, ac, eq, daoc are all still going plus you have mortal online, eve, darkfall which all offer that old school type of gameplay. You can choose to support what you like or you can do what I did and support one of the newer games and enjoy it for what it is. I chose world of tanks and wow as my mmo simply because I am older, I don't have the time I once did and I want to progress before I die of old age. Wow is a great themepark game that at the very least you have to work for what you want a little bit, rep grinds and achievement hunting takes a bit, getting rare exotic mounts and pets take some time, wow is not as dumbed down as people want to say it is, it just has linear no exploration questing that is really not very engaging except for maybe the first time through.
I do miss the old days of massive pk fights over tusker isle, and the various olthoi dungeons but that type of thing is in the past, we can either move on or keep making posts about the good old days, but to me I am moving on and just enjoying games for what they are now.
Well, it's not that much of a problem for the industry. Mostly it's just a problem for the people who want something that doesn't seem likely to materialize. Not anytime soon anyway. Then again, when games like Final Fantasy or that Wizards game release and have things like slow leveling, and then people continue to not play it, I have to wonder what the actual criteria is for the games that they want. ** I mean, people played WoW, Eve and even SWToR in spite of the issues they encountered. Very few people are playing a game that has all the features and build quality they want. If a new game releases that has many of the features of an 'old school' game, I have to wonder why someone who is into 'old school' games doesn't want to play it.
An asian grinder just because it has grinding PvE doesnt make it 'old school' I played the new FF that re-released recently it isnt any different from any other MMO that has come out only it has lest choices, less customization, and the same boring quest hubs quest to quest to quest, and even less innovative combat.
I dotn think we're asking SPECIFICALLY for a niche game.
Give us a big world, give us an equally effective GRIND -OR- quest play style, give us places to explore OR run dungeons. I mean we're asking for the -OR- not the -ONLY-
atleast I am, I find it hard to believe they cant balance a game to give both play styles. Currenly games like WoW etc, it is only about 30-40% as fast to grind as it is to quest. make it closer to 90% and a lot of older style players would be happy but its not just about grinding damnit.
We want big open world, pvp, housing, guilds, guild housing MORE immersion, MORE community, and we get less, less ,less ,less.
Like I said, I can totally understand wanting something, whether it exists or not, even whether it's likely to exist or not. Not sure that type of game is going to happen though. It doesn't seem too likely. It might be time to look for the closest alternative, or find something else completely.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
http://codmw3.me
Just wrong.
Counter Strike, League of Legends, Dota 1/2, Battlefield 1-4, Starcraft 1&2, Eve Online.. all those games are still alive and a lot of players play them very regulary. Even some mainly single player games like Civilizations or Football Manager are played regulary over many years.
Just heavy story based games, or games with very linear and not dynamic content are played for just a few hours/days/weeks, to consume the linear content and the story... but not all games are based on linear content or/and story telling.
We're just in a lull in the genre right now. Things will change in time and I'm sure a new MMO will emerge eventually that "hardcore" gamers can get behind. How long that will be, however, is anyone's guess.
On a side note: it's getting really irritating when people get on here and tell others that if they want to play a certain way their only choices are washed-up titles and that they should be grateful to have them. It only serves to point out how desperate players really are that they are still willing to play has-been games because they've been systematically excluded from new titles.
I don't think anyone is asking for the genre to remain completely static, but that also doesn't mean that everything that was in old games was bad and that everything in new games is good. I certainly am more than ready to put my money down but can't find a title worth spending it on.
Maybe it's easier to think about this is non game terms.
You can't really say that nobody wants a sports car when all that's being sold are family sedans and if people wanted sports cars than they'd obviously buy one. It's true that a lot more people want family cars than want sports cars, but that doesn't mean that there aren't more than enough sports car enthusiasts to warrant the product and the only options shouldn't be "classic" sports cars because of a lack of new options. Everyone should have the chance to purchase a newly designed vehicle with more features, better gas mileage, etc. I wouldn't expect my sports car to be a good family car and I wouldn't expect a family car to be a good sports car.
I'm glad that you as a consumer are perfectly happy with what is being offered. There are obviously many who are not.
But those are the people who we have to listen to here constantly, the people who have hated every game since EQ and demand that the industry make an old-school game that they want, even if there's no money in it and not enough people who demonstrably want such a game.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Asheron's Call.
My first MMO. I was one of the lucky ones who experienced AC from beta, to launch + 4yrs or so. It has been a curse also - as every MMO I've played to date has failed to recapture the magic that was Asheron's Call. I don't think I'll ever find a game that can recreate the magic that was AC.
I've written a number of posts about AC over the years. I've gone back and played the game a few times as well... but she is lonely girl now, and I've grown cynical. I still look forward to new games and I keep looking for the magic - I see a glimpse every now and again - but it is fleeting... and truth be told I am getting tired of looking.
I think the golden glory days for MMO's are gone. The King is dead. Long live the King!
"Youre in our world now!"
The difference, in my opinion, is back in the "old days" - they used to build huge, immersive worlds that could transport you out of this one and into that one, where you could literally have a second life. You could lose yourself in that world and it was such a nice escape from reality. Things took a lot of time to master and accomplish and you really cherished the reward you received for the mass amount of effort you put in.
We used to think Blizzard broke MMO's forever and they very well might have. I don't want to give credit where it may not be due but World of Warcraft really was the pivotal point that made console game developers turn their heads and look at the MMO market with more serious intent. That coupled with the price of computers dropping and computers becoming more mainstream in every household brought just an immense amount of money to the MMO market.
So now the MMO's seem to be written more for console gamers. I've had console gamer friends tell me, "Back before I started playing MMO's, I was spending $100 bucks a month or more on games". I think that's the player the MMO developer has catered to since WoW, flash in the pan, burn through content, throw money at F2P or P2W. Over the long run, it's probably not too hard to break even if you give a player, say, 80-100 hours of gametime, like console games and then expect them to pay for more. That is nothing compared to the size of Norrath, that took month and months, maybe longer to originally explore.
It took me almost 8 months to hit level 60 on my first toon in WoW. Now, people race to max level and if it takes longer than a week everyone is surprised. I think FFXIV had it's first level 50 on day 9 or something.
No bitchers.
Haha what?
The solution to a 9 year long slump and regression in the genre is to "put our money" into a game that doesn't exist?
If publishers listened to money they'd have stopped trying to make WoW clones year ago, yet big profile failure after big profile failure, all the WoW clones crumble, AoC, Rift, SWTOR, and yet more come...
Haha yeah they dont exist.
And look at the ones who MIGHT fit the mold, I mean Darkfall Unholy Wars is such a friggin disaster. They're OWN playerbase /wrists themselves all day.
Well, it's not that much of a problem for the industry. Mostly it's just a problem for the people who want something that doesn't seem likely to materialize. Not anytime soon anyway. Then again, when games like Final Fantasy or that Wizards game release and have things like slow leveling, and then people continue to not play it, I have to wonder what the actual criteria is for the games that they want. ** I mean, people played WoW, Eve and even SWToR in spite of the issues they encountered. Very few people are playing a game that has all the features and build quality they want. If a new game releases that has many of the features of an 'old school' game, I have to wonder why someone who is into 'old school' games doesn't want to play it.
But those are the people who we have to listen to here constantly, the people who have hated every game since EQ and demand that the industry make an old-school game that they want, even if there's no money in it and not enough people who demonstrably want such a game.
We don't really have to listen to them. There's nothing that says people must engage in conversations with people who have views that are directly opposed to their own.
It's not possible to challenge other peoples' viewpoints without challenging your own viewpoint. For good or ill, advancing your own cause means getting somewhat involved in the cause of someone else.
But let's be honest. If "those people" weren't here, most of "us" wouldn't be here either. The opposing viewpoints are the blood that flows through this site's heart. Without them the heart wouldn't beat.
So yes, we listen to them even though we don't have to because the alternative would be silence.
Got a little dramatic there. Sorry.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I agree, a forum where everyone agrees would be quite boring.
I like that people are passionate about these topics, shows how much we all care about our favorite hobby.