Server to client "hangups"?

Keldor837

Has anyone else been getting these? When game launched I'd hoped this was an issue which would be fixed with the server stuff they did to address latency. But it's gotten worse in the last two weeks to being similar to when the game first launched. Dungeon servers that are under heavy load (primals once again as everyone grinds for their weapons to do extreme modes) and in the two high lvl zones which run the big fate trains.

I'll be playing and everything but me stops moving, then the client rushes to catch up to them. This makes titan hard mode impossible as I have to just cross my fingers if this happens for more than a second. Let me explain what I've done on my end to try and resolve the problem before the fanboi's and trolls start telling me it's on my end.

I have upgraded my computer since launch, I'm now running dual radeon hd 6670 xfire cards. I have a 6-core second gen processor, 24gb ddr3 ram, Windows 7 64bit (just for you haters that try and pin this on windows 8). I reformat my computer once every three months (twice in hopes that it was my computer and would resolve the issue). Which of course means I've reinstalled the game twice so it's not an installation issue. I have demanded my service provider send a technician to my place and they check all my lines, replaced my modem, and I even upgraded to the highest speed possible short of getting fiber optics. I also required for them to run a 24-hr recording of my send/receive packets and provide me with the report to make sure it's not them causing the problem. Everything checked out just fine. I also want to add my computer hooks up directly to my internet modem, no additional routers involved and i don't run any firewalls except for my windows security firewall as this comp is used exclusively for gaming and doesn't have much worth stealing digitally.

So, after explaining that I had done all of that to a representative at square enix, they told me that their servers are just fine and not causing anyone else this issue and therefore it is on my end. They then hung up on me...which I want to point out I worked in telecommunications and thus I do not take my problems out on the person on the other end of the line. I didn't yell, raise my voice, or get argumentative over the matter like most would.

So long story short, I don't know what the hell to do. I've done everything possible on my end to make sure it's not something caused by me. I would very much like to continue playing, but if I can't do any of the end-game content and I've already leveled five classes to 50. What's left for me? Is anyone else experiencing this as badly as me or is this some freak occurrence that only I'm dealing with?

Raquis

if something is broken don't try and fix it,why do you play this old game?

Keldor837

Since your question has nothing to do with what I posted, you don't merit an actual response. :-)

MagikrorriM

I got the same problem happens during peak hours (EST- PST), off peak everything is smooth. Definitely seems to effect some but not others,  considering this doesn't happen during peak hours, can only assume the dungeon servers need fixing.

Keldor837

It's not just dungeons though. Any zone with a fate train of medium or large proportions it happens as well. The only thing that worried me about playing this game was when I found out they were using their existing game servers. Those things are old by today's standards. They invested so much time and money into bringing the game back to life and then the higher-ups penny pinch on the server hardware which has been nothing but headaches for the whole team over there.

Ikkei

I've copied in this post in another thread of this forum an explanation provided by a FFXIV player who happens to have worked in backend MMO datacenters (systems engineer).

Short story: it's a design choice made by SE to run the game in 'server live-state' as opposed to 'client live-state'. 

• The former is very latency-intolerant, meaning that if you don't have a low-latency very stable (very few packet loss) to the server, the game becomes quite unplayable.
• The latter is what pretty much all other MMO's on the market are based on.

————————

My personal guess is that Japan being a very small country geographically, and very much urbanised (basically it's one huge megalopolis of ~100M inhabitants from Tokyo to Osaka); which, added to the fact that their internet is pretty much state of the art (not rare to have 100Mbps symmetrical connections, internet feels like a LAN over there…), probably means that Japanese developers just don't feel the constrains of online gameplay as most of the rest of the world does. 

Culturally, in terms of technology standards and development methodology, since most Japanese don't speak english at all (or any other language, therefore don't understand most of the tech discussions on the net, let alone rely on crowdsourcing) and have a very poor, cliché knowledge of the rest of the world since they don't travel a lot professionally nor hire much foreign workers (very little knowledge exchange), they're probably quite unaware of major trends in development—here, in terms of netcode. This country is culturally awesome in itself (my subjective opinion) but lives in a bubble (that's objective, business-wise). 

SE's choice of server live-state for the netcode of FFXIV, nonetheless aimed at the world market of MMOGs, is a strong evidence that they just don't get how other countries/studios deal with online multiplayer connectivity; and that they didn't research much (or failed at that). Likewise they designed this whole engine by themselves when a simple Crytek 3 vanilla engine would have yielded much better results in terms of netcode; or any comprehensive reading of Valve's documentation on the topic would have tremendously helped… but this is all in english, I'm guessing 90% of their staff just can't read it.

I cannot believe for one minute that SE failed their netcode programming willingly for their flagship MMO, a canonic FF title at that, and admittedly playing in Japan on Japanese servers yields an excellent experience, so… yeah, it's just that their product is technically very ill-adapted to the internet outside of Japan.

They stated they'll try to improve the situation for endgame instances, by increasing the positional check frequency (currently .3s, to be lowered to .1s or so), but my personal guess is that it's just a tiny aspect of the whole mess of a netcode that FFXIV is based upon: it may reduce latency intolerance at the cost of much server load (thus not sure it's a good idea considering their backend already had much troubles with server resources already, many freezes, d/c, etc.), but it theoretically cannot solve the problem in itself. We'll see, this change is planned for patch 2.1 in just 3 days now (well, 4 counting the 24h maintenance).

Keldor837

While that makes sense to a degree (though ignorantly so) I don't see as to why the communication between server and client could not be altered for their foreign servers. I understand this would probably be much harder than it sounds, but the core aspect to their end-game is coordination and avoiding boss moves. Unless this patch coming out does an amazing job at improving the situation. Many people will not be able to even attempt extreme mode primals, since most of them (myself included) can't even finish hm Titan due to the screen freezing for a moment and getting punched in the face. If this trend for their end-game continues then I'm afraid myself and others will leave the game. Not because of the game itself, but because of the server-to-client issue.

Btw, I don't buy the whole "don't speak English and don't look into international affairs." English is a required course taken throughout their higher academic years. When I visited Japan nearly everyone I encountered was capable of some proficiency in English, though you often needed to ask if they were able and willing to speak English first. Otherwise they wouldn't, simply because you were rude and assumed they would. As for business, it's my understanding that when the original version of the game was released it was intended only for Japan and was later adapted to an international audience. So if it's truly THAT built into the game that it's not something easily corrected/changed. Then it stands to reason that they may not be able to change that decision since the current game is literally built over the existing one. So while I don't necessarily blame them, I wish they would invest the money into changing this for their foreign servers/clients. As it was announced that the initial release and subs here in the states exceed those in Japan. While unfortunately SE tends to play favorites amongst it's home countrymen. Any businessman would realize that you need to cater to where the money is coming from, and right now that's here in the States.

Ikkei

Final Fantasy XIV was always intended for an international market, as any other canonic Final Fantasy title since Final Fantasy IV. The version 1.0-1.23 was built on another engine very poor in terms of efficiency and customisation, so when Naoki Yoshida took the product in charge, he chose to make a new engine altogether. It's what they've been doing for two years between 1.x and 2.0 "A Realm Reborn". 

The netcode is a core aspect of an engine, you can't simply run two versions of a game with a different netcode. It's usually made during the early stages of development, making it more likely that SE just went with that part without testing it much on a larger/worldwide scale. By the time the game went in beta (S1 2013), it was much too late to change the netcode itself, or it would have probably implied postponing the game (which, for these and other reasons, might have been a sensible idea. But I digress).

As for english this was mere speculation on my part, I certainly didn't want to word it as statistical facts (sorry if I failed!). I just know first-hand that most workers in Japan don't rely on an english-speaking internet 99% of the time; it's just not how they operate. It's actually true for many non-english speaking countries, to a more or less pronounced extent. 

I agree with your opinion that these awkward and gimped in-game conditions, should you suffer them (apparently, not everyone does; or has a different tolerance level; or a combination of both), would be a strong deterrent to any game. No matter what's underneath a clumsy gameplay, it's hindered by the very fact of this broken premise… The point of a game is to have fun with the gameplay first and foremost; everything else, to a certain degree, is pretence, packaging, suspension of disbelief.

So I haven't heard much feedback on the improvement (or lack thereof) provided by patch 2.1 on these network issues, at least not from people I trust to be honest and objective. I can't test it myself since I'm not subbed to the game currently. But what I observed is that most people who had issues with the netcode left already, so I'm not sure if many current players will report a noticeable change since they didn't seem to be affected in the first place (or already paying for a VPN).

For what it's worth, I believe this poor netcode and server architecture is ultimately one of the biggest reasons why this game can't, won't reach 'mainstream success'—not the kind a canonic title of a top10 best-selling franchise ever in video games could reasonably hope for, and certainly aim at.

Nicephorus

I'm not all that network savvy, so the previous explanation may be totally valid. And I do know friends who have had similar problems. I am curious about one thing though. I live in the Midwestern United States, I play on Faerie server, and I have yet to have experienced a single instance of noticeable latency or problems with disconnections. I guess I'm hard pressed to understand how a server side issue would affect some people, and not others on the same server.

Keldor837

Actually, despite the sudden increase in active players following the patch. I personally have noticed an increase in performance. That's not to say I don't still have server communication "hiccups." These, however, are much further apart from one another and substantially shorter then previously experienced. I am actually able to run Titan HM with little to no fear of dyeing due to experiencing a "hiccup." I have once or twice died or been close to death due to a small "hiccup" at the absolute worse time; these were so short that it wasn't anything to get worked up over.

I do have to point out that since the patch, friends whom I play with that are located in Alaska (I'm on the eastern seaboard) have begun to experience these "hiccups" for themselves. Previously they never experienced these for themselves and actually thought on more than one occasion I was making it up as a convenient excuse. So as one door begins to close and be addressed, it appears another has opened elsewhere.