Mocap is just one way to do it that makes a lot of sense in some types of games (sports sims) and is just one of many ways to do it in others. How they do their animations is irelevant as long as they're well done... I'm not seeing anything objectionable about ESO's... so yeah, it sounds like useless technical nit-picking to me.
There are other readers that don't consider a lack of mo-cap to be a useless technical detail. Particularly when it's almost inevitable that many potential players will use Skyrim as a benchmark for animation comparisons.
But I digress... the OP here is not saying he's the #1 fan... just a connosieur of the finer technical aspects of MMO development... if only he had been part of the team. Someday, we'll have an MMO totally designed by public opinion polling of amateurs... and we'll get cars and houses designed the same way... because, as everyone on the internet knows, people who do this shit for a living know nothing and we know it all
The OP here is saying that there is no motion capture in ESO and that it's an enormous step backwards from Skyrim.
I guess what you're trying to say is that anyone who is horrified by an MMO design choice is a self-proclaimed connoiseur of the finer techincal aspects of MMO development. If that's true, then we're either all connoiseurs, or.. you know, we're just gamers that have an opinion (and who ultimately influence sales).
I think what he's implying is that if you had any technical understanding of game construction, you'd realize that motion capture animations would be a huge technical drain if possible at all in an online world.
Skyrim and indeed all games in this series were never about animations or mo cap, their success was built freedom of choice, storylines that revolved around the player and huge open worlds. Incidently combat and the ui has allways been considers in these games to boot. Mo cap will never ever be a key factor in a mmorg.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Someone else mentioned this but I agree,.it's feeling like SWTOR all over again.
Um... SWTOR wasn't made on the cheap, that game was made on the extremely expensive side. It completely missed what made a good MMO and couldn't live up to the hype at all, but it wasn't made on the cheap remotely at all.
What's really ironic is that one of the few good things about SWTOR are it's animations, lol. Most of which, by the way, used mocap.
I sometimes feel like resubbing just so I can throw sabers and leap at people with my Juggie.
lol, good! Mocap is b/s and costs good animator jobs.
Plus this isnt a sports game, mocap isnt necessary. Especially if you hire good animators that know all the principles as well as how to execute them. I dont think any MMO uses mocap. None that I can think of anyway, either way its definitely not common practice.
Someone else mentioned this but I agree,.it's feeling like SWTOR all over again.
Um... SWTOR wasn't made on the cheap, that game was made on the extremely expensive side. It completely missed what made a good MMO and couldn't live up to the hype at all, but it wasn't made on the cheap remotely at all.
What's really ironic is that one of the few good things about SWTOR are it's animations, lol. Most of which, by the way, used mocap.
I sometimes feel like resubbing just so I can throw sabers and leap at people with my Juggie.
Actually,..I wasn't comparing the cost. Ya SWTOR was touted as oneof the most expensive MMO's .
Where'd it al go? Voice acting? Must be,.cause I felt the rest of the game was good looking garbage, imho. What reminded me of SWTOR, in regards to ESO,.was the Hype and the let down once released and everyone realized how " Same ol' same ol' " everything is.
Don't get me wrong,..I will be playing ESO to check it out further,. But just not excited as it is right now.
Originally posted by Bladestrom Skyrim and indeed all games in this series were never about animations or mo cap, their success was built freedom of choice, storylines that revolved around the player and huge open worlds. Incidently combat and the ui has allways been considers in these games to boot. Mo cap will never ever be a key factor in a mmorg.
Elder Scrolls was never about animations or mo cap. You're right. But then Skyrim introduced mo-cap (along with other stunning visuals), and now Skyrim is one of the best selling games ever made.
Did adding great graphics and animation hurt the genre? Did we lose something in Skyrim that made it feel "less" like an Elder Scrolls game because it made a huge effort on graphical advancements? If you believe the genre was hurt by an improved graphics focus, then you have a fair argument for why ESO should be using old-gen graphics. If not, then ESO is hurting itself by taking a step backwards from what has been established as the new Elder Scrolls graphical benchmark in Skyrim. Not to mention a graphical standard in many MMOs today.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle Do you mean when the game has a slow motion action shot of your finishing move when you kill a mob? If so how would that work in a dungeon when a tank is in a slow motion show of killing a mob and he needs to be taunting a mob that smacking the healer? Or in PvP in a 3v3 fight and someone dies so that team is stuck in a slow motion shot as the other team unloads on you and you cant do anything till its over. Or you asking for some other feature I am unclear of?
Motion capture, not slow motion lol. Motion capture is when they make the animations using a real persons movements that has all those little balls stuck on his body.
Originally posted by Kayo45 lol, good! Mocap is b/s and costs good animator jobs.
Plus this isnt a sports game, mocap isnt necessary. Especially if you hire good animators that know all the principles as well as how to execute them. I dont think any MMO uses mocap. None that I can think of anyway, either way its definitely not common practice.
Age of Conan and Age of Wushu has motion capture written all over it.
The people that won't play ESO because it doesn't have Mo-Cap are neglible to say the least, there are plenty of actual issues with ESO without hunting down such obscure supposed flaws. Then again , this is par for the course for any major release ... I've only ever really hated one game enough to crusade against it and that lasted all of a few hours.
P.S. I posted videos in slow motion to show the details of animation. Not to confuse with Motion capture, which was used in SWTOR for all animation except of the leaps (these were animated)
Originally posted by Kicksave321 Oh just a little helpful hint. A single player game will have much more room for graphical advances then an MMO. I understand some don't understand this but it's really not that hard of a concept one player on the screen vs many is a huge difference. It's the same reason why Call of Duty no longer can handle four player split screen the graphical advanced are just too much to have 4 screens at once. Mmos do have limitations just based on their size.
Im not in a mood to be mean so ill just block you
On subject. Didnt notice that so animations probably arent that bad.
Just to unnecessarily add, Mo Cap doesn't take up any more resources run-time -wise than traditional hand keyed. A key is a key. I am certain all Mo cap goes though an animator anyways,..to push poses,..etc,..at the very least to clean up the messy data.
Originally posted by Sevenstar61
SWTOR has best animations comparing to MMOS I've played
Sorry,..my post was not worded right. The animations are good in SWTOR, I admit. I was refering to the hype machine.
Originally posted by Rhoklaw It's amazing how gamers still can't grasp the idea that offline single player games are under a completely different set of graphics and animation rules then MMOs. When you think about TESO being a heavily large scale FvF based game, graphics and excessive animation mechanics = unbearable latency. Last thing we need in another PvP focused MMO is latency.
Yeah except, graphic performance does not equate to network latency. Bad graphic performance gives you 2 FPS and then you die to that guy that teleported next to you because your video card didn't render it.
Also, see my previous post on Star Wars Galaxies having mo-cap in 2003. Having smooth and realistic animation does not need to be a massive strain on graphic cards. You can make a stick-figure animate smoothly with mo-cap (and in fact, the animation skeleton in mo-cap starts off that way).
In every ESO video that has been released, we have yet to see motion capture incorporated into any of the animations. How can this be? Skyrim had such beautiful animation with mo-cap. The animation in ESO is an embarrassment in comparison.
There have been plenty of negative prophecies made by plenty of people about plenty of upcoming MMOs, but ESO looks like it may be setting the hugest scale of disappointment yet. I get the feeling that with a release date now set for April 4th 2014, this game has completely given up on being a success and is just cutting losses.
My sympathies go out to everyone who expected something from this game. With luck, the game will be so bad that it becomes a comical cultural reference. And then the Elder Scrolls franchise can continue its tradition of bringing humor to the internet.
took me a bit tofigure out your babble, but i get it now.
your talking about the slow motion finishing moves in the single player game.
the amount of time the slow motion is going to take for a finishing move, your enemy will carve out your insides.
You cant get squat tested in a 3 Day Beta Weekend. Thats not a Beta Test, its a Pre-Release Preview for Marketing purposes.
I seem to remember all the marketing beta tests were the tessts lasting longer than a weekend and the "let's get feedback. stress test and find bugs" tests lasting a weekend.
Given the amount of bugs/feedback that "I" personally gave I can tell you that you are incorrect.
As well as answering their questionnaire and giving a completely separate e-mail with additional thoughts that gave me a response from them.
This is not a commentary on the game or how "good it is" but a commentary on their beta test actually being a beta test.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by Kicksave321 Oh yippy another doom and gloom post about ESO. Boy does misery love company on this site.
+1
I enjoyed my time in the beta enough to want to make the purchase and pay a sub to play it. It's been 3-4 years since I played a sub based game or even wanted too.
took me a bit tofigure out your babble, but i get it now.
your talking about the slow motion finishing moves in the single player game.
the amount of time the slow motion is going to take for a finishing move, your enemy will carve out your insides.
so in the end, just another hate post.
Um.. no. I am not referring to slow motion, although the amount of people now that are starting to interpret motion capture as slow-mo is making me realize the futility of persisting in its discussion on these forums.
took me a bit tofigure out your babble, but i get it now.
your talking about the slow motion finishing moves in the single player game.
the amount of time the slow motion is going to take for a finishing move, your enemy will carve out your insides.
so in the end, just another hate post.
Um.. no. I am not referring to slow motion, although the amount of people now that are starting to interpret motion capture as slow-mo is making me realize the futility of persisting in its discussion on these forums.
I'm going to make this simple for what it's worth. I beta tested ESO and currently testing Wildstar. I must say I had more fun playing ESO than Wildstar, although Wildstar was more polished at its current state of development. I was really surprised how much I liked ESO considering I'm not an Elder Scrolls fan, do to its sand box style gameplay. However I'm a big WoW fan therefore I thought Wilstar was going to be right up my alley. Note: Wildstar is a Great game, I just had more fun with ESO, for what its worth.
In every ESO video that has been released, we have yet to see motion capture incorporated into any of the animations. How can this be? Skyrim had such beautiful animation with mo-cap. The animation in ESO is an embarrassment in comparison.
There have been plenty of negative prophecies made by plenty of people about plenty of upcoming MMOs, but ESO looks like it may be setting the hugest scale of disappointment yet. I get the feeling that with a release date now set for April 4th 2014, this game has completely given up on being a success and is just cutting losses.
My sympathies go out to everyone who expected something from this game. With luck, the game will be so bad that it becomes a comical cultural reference. And then the Elder Scrolls franchise can continue its tradition of bringing humor to the internet.
Are you gamers ever happy ever, I will make a company right now and get millions to make it, and make it like you people want, I bet you find a reason to whine about something, I see this today more then ever with every game on this site, please quit playing MMO's. Please for the love of God.!!
Originally posted by cpupower I'm going to make this simple for what it's worth. I beta tested ESO and currently testing Wildstar. I must say I had more fun playing ESO than Wildstar, although Wildstar was more polished at its current state of development. I was really surprised how much I liked ESO considering I'm not an Elder Scrolls fan, do to its sand box style gameplay. However I'm a big WoW fan therefore I thought Wilstar was going to be right up my alley. Note: Wildstar is a Great game, I just had more fun with ESO, for what its worth.
Actually the funny part about TES games is that they are all heavily themeparked type games.
They are heavily quest focused. The biggest appeal to the series ins't it being a true sandbox, but the freedom the game allows you to have. Most of what can be done in the game can be done at different times, but the basic story, and most of the quest arcs in it require a specific progression to them. You can't become a Warewolf in Skyrim unless you go through that quest arc. The freedom lies in how you get to the objectives, because the quest arcs that contain a story are still as linear as they come and depending on your specific goals are extremely linear. Such as killing specific quest givers to essentially 'ruin' the story, but all that really does is halt game progress and force you to start over, or reload your previous save.
But again this needs to be stressed, the appeal and the 'sandbox' reference to the game is the ability to do what you want in the confines of the game. The 'sandbox' comes from creating your own specific goals in the game because the game allows it, but over all the developed focus on the stories and such are still very linear, the game just allows for a player to come up with their own ideas on how to shape the world with different characters. (Reminds me of building characters in D2)
Hopefully this makes sense, anything that needs clarifying please let me know and hopefully Ill be able to clarify it.
EDIT: Forgot the whole point of the information above, the reason why you liked ESO is specifically because its a Themepark Game.
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Games Played: Too Many
There are other readers that don't consider a lack of mo-cap to be a useless technical detail. Particularly when it's almost inevitable that many potential players will use Skyrim as a benchmark for animation comparisons.
I think what he's implying is that if you had any technical understanding of game construction, you'd realize that motion capture animations would be a huge technical drain if possible at all in an online world.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I sometimes feel like resubbing just so I can throw sabers and leap at people with my Juggie.
Plus this isnt a sports game, mocap isnt necessary. Especially if you hire good animators that know all the principles as well as how to execute them. I dont think any MMO uses mocap. None that I can think of anyway, either way its definitely not common practice.
Actually,..I wasn't comparing the cost. Ya SWTOR was touted as oneof the most expensive MMO's .
Where'd it al go? Voice acting? Must be,.cause I felt the rest of the game was good looking garbage, imho. What reminded me of SWTOR, in regards to ESO,.was the Hype and the let down once released and everyone realized how " Same ol' same ol' " everything is.
Don't get me wrong,..I will be playing ESO to check it out further,. But just not excited as it is right now.
Elder Scrolls was never about animations or mo cap. You're right. But then Skyrim introduced mo-cap (along with other stunning visuals), and now Skyrim is one of the best selling games ever made.
Did adding great graphics and animation hurt the genre? Did we lose something in Skyrim that made it feel "less" like an Elder Scrolls game because it made a huge effort on graphical advancements? If you believe the genre was hurt by an improved graphics focus, then you have a fair argument for why ESO should be using old-gen graphics. If not, then ESO is hurting itself by taking a step backwards from what has been established as the new Elder Scrolls graphical benchmark in Skyrim. Not to mention a graphical standard in many MMOs today.
Motion capture, not slow motion lol. Motion capture is when they make the animations using a real persons movements that has all those little balls stuck on his body.
Age of Conan and Age of Wushu has motion capture written all over it.
The people that won't play ESO because it doesn't have Mo-Cap are neglible to say the least, there are plenty of actual issues with ESO without hunting down such obscure supposed flaws. Then again , this is par for the course for any major release ... I've only ever really hated one game enough to crusade against it and that lasted all of a few hours.
Different strokes ..
SWTOR has best animations comparing to MMOS I've played
See slow motion in SWTOR to appreciate it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jFipAx8854
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cg7yPokuP8
P.S. I posted videos in slow motion to show the details of animation. Not to confuse with Motion capture, which was used in SWTOR for all animation except of the leaps (these were animated)
Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E
Just to unnecessarily add, Mo Cap doesn't take up any more resources run-time -wise than traditional hand keyed. A key is a key. I am certain all Mo cap goes though an animator anyways,..to push poses,..etc,..at the very least to clean up the messy data.
Sorry,..my post was not worded right. The animations are good in SWTOR, I admit. I was refering to the hype machine.
I wish DDO had as good animations. Mo-Cap or not.
Yeah except, graphic performance does not equate to network latency. Bad graphic performance gives you 2 FPS and then you die to that guy that teleported next to you because your video card didn't render it.
Also, see my previous post on Star Wars Galaxies having mo-cap in 2003. Having smooth and realistic animation does not need to be a massive strain on graphic cards. You can make a stick-figure animate smoothly with mo-cap (and in fact, the animation skeleton in mo-cap starts off that way).
took me a bit tofigure out your babble, but i get it now.
your talking about the slow motion finishing moves in the single player game.
the amount of time the slow motion is going to take for a finishing move, your enemy will carve out your insides.
so in the end, just another hate post.
over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...
I seem to remember all the marketing beta tests were the tessts lasting longer than a weekend and the "let's get feedback. stress test and find bugs" tests lasting a weekend.
Given the amount of bugs/feedback that "I" personally gave I can tell you that you are incorrect.
As well as answering their questionnaire and giving a completely separate e-mail with additional thoughts that gave me a response from them.
This is not a commentary on the game or how "good it is" but a commentary on their beta test actually being a beta test.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Judge what the game will have instead of trying to come up with things the game might not have.
Have we really sunk this low with topics like this.
+1
I enjoyed my time in the beta enough to want to make the purchase and pay a sub to play it. It's been 3-4 years since I played a sub based game or even wanted too.
Um.. no. I am not referring to slow motion, although the amount of people now that are starting to interpret motion capture as slow-mo is making me realize the futility of persisting in its discussion on these forums.
please enlighten me then, no offense
over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...
Are you gamers ever happy ever, I will make a company right now and get millions to make it, and make it like you people want, I bet you find a reason to whine about something, I see this today more then ever with every game on this site, please quit playing MMO's. Please for the love of God.!!
Actually the funny part about TES games is that they are all heavily themeparked type games.
They are heavily quest focused. The biggest appeal to the series ins't it being a true sandbox, but the freedom the game allows you to have. Most of what can be done in the game can be done at different times, but the basic story, and most of the quest arcs in it require a specific progression to them. You can't become a Warewolf in Skyrim unless you go through that quest arc. The freedom lies in how you get to the objectives, because the quest arcs that contain a story are still as linear as they come and depending on your specific goals are extremely linear. Such as killing specific quest givers to essentially 'ruin' the story, but all that really does is halt game progress and force you to start over, or reload your previous save.
But again this needs to be stressed, the appeal and the 'sandbox' reference to the game is the ability to do what you want in the confines of the game. The 'sandbox' comes from creating your own specific goals in the game because the game allows it, but over all the developed focus on the stories and such are still very linear, the game just allows for a player to come up with their own ideas on how to shape the world with different characters. (Reminds me of building characters in D2)
Hopefully this makes sense, anything that needs clarifying please let me know and hopefully Ill be able to clarify it.
EDIT: Forgot the whole point of the information above, the reason why you liked ESO is specifically because its a Themepark Game.