The OP makes some good points. WoW was the first MMO I ever played, so it will always have a place in the ole heart, but WS is great; it gives me the same feeling that WoW did back whenever I first played it, years ago.
Here is a list of people who are playing WoW right now. This makes up the 7 million subs that they have currently:
Yep you got it for the most part, you did leave out 1 group and that's the players who like to fully gear up with little effort, and want a game where their main and alts can all be geared out in a few weeks. Those players will not be switching to a game where they aren't able to do that.
I believe the largest group is players who play the content, un-sub, wait for new content, re-sub and so on. I can readily see this on the most popular EU server (Silvermoon) and from my guild that had 180 members and I think has been the pattern in WoW. That is why the WoW devs feversly release new content regularly but also patches that contain additional content in between major releases.
I think this game may actually hit WoW's subs hard. Unlike so many other WoW clones, this seems to be doing what WoW did, but better. The stylized graphics are sharper, the combat more slick. It is adding housing which Blizzard is attempting to answer with their own version. The crafting is a more customizable version of WoW's tried and true system. I think this is less of a WoW clone and more of a WoW v2.0
They are doing what Blizzard did to EQ. And they may just beat them at their own game. I think Anet tried to beat WoW by going the polar opposite route. But Wildstar seems to have everything that a WoW fan enjoys, but better.
The storylines and characters are tounge in cheek and full of pop culture references, the raids seem bigger and badder, exploration is a career path.
I think WoW just may take its biggest subscription hit when this game launches. And I think Blizzard knows it.
I think for any game to hit WoW hard it has to prove it is worthy of the subscription, let alone worthy of the initial purchase. From what I have seen all these years (since 2002 and SWG) and all these MMOs, each had one or more catastrophic design flaws so as never to threaten WoW.
Somebody needs to tell you guys that the age of new MMORPG's conquering the subscription markets came to an end with SWTOR.
There you had the perfect Lore, the perfect marketing and a perfect goal to reach 12.000.000 (sic) subs in the biggest franchise of the universe.
2 years later and we know better.
Or so I thought ....
Surely that is not what SWTOR is. SWTOR, like so many other MMOs since 2000, has catastrophic flaws, which even a three year old would tell you about!
1) It is extraordinarily linear. You cannot make a toon and go explore. You cannot go meet your friends on some other place. You have to keep doing a single line of quests and be limited to whichever zone these quests are in and only successful completion of those quests will allow you to exit the zone! If that is not the most idiotic design ever then I do not know what is. It's worse than games made in the 90s.
2) the maps are all fake - there is no 3D world, you are always constrained by invisible barriers so you have to travel on a certain path - even in year 2000 we had games with full open worlds you could wander in. Another terrible design reminiscent of 90's games.
So SWTOR may be OK as a single player game just to go through the lore maybe, but then why pay subscription and why be online for a single player game?
There will never be another WoW, in terms of subs I mean. Hell, WoW will never reach those sub numbers again. WoW was considered wildly successful when TBC rolled out, maybe before, and we're talking about maybe 4 million subs. WoW is so far removed from what is was, both good and bad, it's almost like there is no WoW anymore. This WoW killer is a myth, perpetuated by people like us on forums. WoW is going strong with 6 million subs or so. The landscape is changing, MMO's are flooding the market. I love what WS has to offer and I can't wait for release. I like what ESO is doing. There are numerous MMO's coming out that have the potential to stick around for a while. Nothing killed WoW, we just have more choices now. WoW will probably always have the strongest player base, but the gap is closing. I hope WS is good, along with every other MMO coming out, just for the shear number of choices and flexibility in gaming ideology.
Somebody needs to tell you guys that the age of new MMORPG's conquering the subscription markets came to an end with SWTOR.
There you had the perfect Lore, the perfect marketing and a perfect goal to reach 12.000.000 (sic) subs in the biggest franchise of the universe.
2 years later and we know better.
Or so I thought ....
Surely that is not what SWTOR is. SWTOR, like so many other MMOs since 2000, has catastrophic flaws, which even a three year old would tell you about!
1) It is extraordinarily linear. You cannot make a toon and go explore. You cannot go meet your friends on some other place. You have to keep doing a single line of quests and be limited to whichever zone these quests are in and only successful completion of those quests will allow you to exit the zone! If that is not the most idiotic design ever then I do not know what is. It's worse than games made in the 90s.
2) the maps are all fake - there is no 3D world, you are always constrained by invisible barriers so you have to travel on a certain path - even in year 2000 we had games with full open worlds you could wander in. Another terrible design reminiscent of 90's games.
So SWTOR may be OK as a single player game just to go through the lore maybe, but then why pay subscription and why be online for a single player game?
If it wasnt for NCSoft id buy this game day one. Looks impressive and fun. The dev team is about as creative as it gets with its designs (love the videos!), the animations are cartoony but amazing, the features sound promising, and their future plans/direction seems solid. It does have a goood chance at taking the lead ... assuming NCSoft doesnt muck it all up.
Still, im going to wait it out a few months. If after 3-6 months the game is still booming then ill take a chance. I just dont trust anything NCSoft does anymore. They have the worst CSR rep I have ever heard of by a long shot and will screw their customers over if itll get them an extra penny. Theyre the EA of MMOs. I know theyre not the company thats developing the game ... but Carbine just chose to partner up with the dirtiest publisher of the MMO genre, and im not biting unless it proves itself first.
Is anyone else looking forward to the day when WoW-killer threads stop existing? I don't think it will be any time soon, but my god it will be glorious.
Originally posted by evilastro Is anyone else looking forward to the day when WoW-killer threads stop existing? I don't think it will be any time soon, but my god it will be glorious.
we cant talk boxing, without mentioning the champ..sorry dude
The thread topic has been done to death already but it did give me one curious thought.
I wonder whether the attitude in the thread would be the same or the polar opposite if this game was being released (exactly as it is) by Blizzard as a spiritual successor to WoW. I'd put money on the thread being full of people falling over themselves wanting to play it
The thread topic has been done to death already but it did give me one curious thought.
I wonder whether the attitude in the thread would be the same or the polar opposite if this game was being released (exactly as it is) by Blizzard as a spiritual successor to WoW. I'd put money on the thread being full of people falling over themselves wanting to play it
Highly doubtful, even if it was Blizzard releasing this game, i would really not be interested. The graphics look too cartoony, and we have way too many games like that already, but even ignoring that, what i've seen so far just does not look interesting, whoever is doing the hype is doing a good job of destroying the game imo, the less seen of it the better.
WoW is already dying, it is losing subs in a growing market. It isn't being killed by any new MMO or any other single cause. It is dying due to a mixture of old age, poor expansions, bored people and other, more attractive multiplayer games like Dota, League of Legends or even call of duty. Players who are specifically attracted to MMO's or multiplayer games now have a lot of choices. This is no longer the same world where multiplayer games, digital downloads and the like are novelties. We have a choice in what to play, how to play them, and how to pay for them.
Yet the fact that WoW still has millions of subscribers despite its age is either a testament to Blizzard as a publisher and developer or evidence of how poorly other developers have done in creating MMO's that can compete with WoW over the long term.
WoW is already dying, it is losing subs in a growing market. It isn't being killed by any new MMO or any other single cause. It is dying due to a mixture of old age, poor expansions, bored people and other, more attractive multiplayer games like Dota, League of Legends or even call of duty. Players who are specifically attracted to MMO's or multiplayer games now have a lot of choices. This is no longer the same world where multiplayer games, digital downloads and the like are novelties. We have a choice in what to play, how to play them, and how to pay for them.
Yet the fact that WoW still has millions of subscribers despite its age is either a testament to Blizzard as a publisher and developer or evidence of how poorly other developers have done in creating MMO's that can compete with WoW over the long term.
Wow has so many subscribers because they reach an audience that most gamers don't want to see games go.
Wow is so easy that many older gamers play it, many mmo players parents play wow. WoW also plays decently on almost any computer, most mmo gamers don't have good computers. My freind still plays wow, her mother plays as do her 2 younger children. Find me another mmo that can get that kind playerbase spread.
If a game came out that was aimed at the 2 things above the serious crowd would say it was so bad that nobody would play it because of the bad reputation the serious crowd would give to it (even the target audience), that's why nothing will come close to wow numbers ever and why WoW will be dominant for 5-10 years or vastly more.
I think this game may actually hit WoW's subs hard. Unlike so many other WoW clones, this seems to be doing what WoW did, but better. The stylized graphics are sharper, the combat more slick. It is adding housing which Blizzard is attempting to answer with their own version. The crafting is a more customizable version of WoW's tried and true system. I think this is less of a WoW clone and more of a WoW v2.0
They are doing what Blizzard did to EQ. And they may just beat them at their own game. I think Anet tried to beat WoW by going the polar opposite route. But Wildstar seems to have everything that a WoW fan enjoys, but better.
The storylines and characters are tounge in cheek and full of pop culture references, the raids seem bigger and badder, exploration is a career path.
I think WoW just may take its biggest subscription hit when this game launches. And I think Blizzard knows it.
Honestly, I'm in beta and haven't even played it lately. I just don't like the races,classes or combat. I'm not sure what it is... but I just don't care for it. Although, I didn't like GW2's combat either.
You mention the story lines and whatnot, which I just found straight up goofy for the most part. It's just a little too "out there" for me. And I can't really explain that lol, but something just doesn't feel right in that game.
I'm not doubting it will take some subs from WoW.. but it's not as easy of a transition from one to the other as you're making it.They do appear to be going graphically the same route with the stylized graphics but that's not enough to make it WoW 2.0. I think when WoD hits, WoW will be just fine.
WoW is already dying, it is losing subs in a growing market. It isn't being killed by any new MMO or any other single cause. It is dying due to a mixture of old age, poor expansions, bored people and other, more attractive multiplayer games like Dota, League of Legends or even call of duty. Players who are specifically attracted to MMO's or multiplayer games now have a lot of choices. This is no longer the same world where multiplayer games, digital downloads and the like are novelties. We have a choice in what to play, how to play them, and how to pay for them.
Yet the fact that WoW still has millions of subscribers despite its age is either a testament to Blizzard as a publisher and developer or evidence of how poorly other developers have done in creating MMO's that can compete with WoW over the long term.
Wow has so many subscribers because they reach an audience that most gamers don't want to see games go.
Wow is so easy that many older gamers play it, many mmo players parents play wow. WoW also plays decently on almost any computer, most mmo gamers don't have good computers. My freind still plays wow, her mother plays as do her 2 younger children. Find me another mmo that can get that kind playerbase spread.
If a game came out that was aimed at the 2 things above the serious crowd would say it was so bad that nobody would play it because of the bad reputation the serious crowd would give to it (even the target audience), that's why nothing will come close to wow numbers ever and why WoW will be dominant for 5-10 years or vastly more.
So basically you're saying that "older gamers" - parents and whatnot are an audience that REAL gamers don't want playing THEIR games? Really? I'm seriously asking you cause this is the first I've heard of this.
I'm just trying to understand... One can only assume that the "serious crowd" you refer to are the hardcore gamers? Is that correct? If so, then you're saying that the hardcore gamers don't want "older gamers" playing the same games as they do... Why? Cause us "older gamers" have no skill and have to play easy games?
Perhaps.. just perhaps some of us "older gamers" (I'm 33, but a parent, so I spose I fit in this category lol) play Warcraft because we just enjoy it. I really don't find any games I have played to be "hard". I just like Warcraft, the lore, the characters, etc. I don't play it because it's easy and runs on my computer.
Maybe Wow is popular because it's a good solid game? Nah, I suppose you're right. It's cause all of us old gaming rejects around the world play it on our monitor mounted toaster computers lol
WoW is already dying, it is losing subs in a growing market. It isn't being killed by any new MMO or any other single cause. It is dying due to a mixture of old age, poor expansions, bored people and other, more attractive multiplayer games like Dota, League of Legends or even call of duty. Players who are specifically attracted to MMO's or multiplayer games now have a lot of choices. This is no longer the same world where multiplayer games, digital downloads and the like are novelties. We have a choice in what to play, how to play them, and how to pay for them.
Yet the fact that WoW still has millions of subscribers despite its age is either a testament to Blizzard as a publisher and developer or evidence of how poorly other developers have done in creating MMO's that can compete with WoW over the long term.
Wow has so many subscribers because they reach an audience that most gamers don't want to see games go.
Wow is so easy that many older gamers play it, many mmo players parents play wow. WoW also plays decently on almost any computer, most mmo gamers don't have good computers. My freind still plays wow, her mother plays as do her 2 younger children. Find me another mmo that can get that kind playerbase spread.
If a game came out that was aimed at the 2 things above the serious crowd would say it was so bad that nobody would play it because of the bad reputation the serious crowd would give to it (even the target audience), that's why nothing will come close to wow numbers ever and why WoW will be dominant for 5-10 years or vastly more.
there are already several hardcore games on the market
EQ and EVE, just to name a couple
they have hardcore gamers, but nobody else
WoW doesnt have that restriction= more gamers=more Money=more content=more gamers..
Okay, saying that WoW is "dying" isn't really accurate. WoW may never actually die, not for a LONG time anyway. Or unless something dramatic happens. WoW is, however, losing popularity fast which is normal. The game is old and like all old things they lose appeal. Blizzard makes a lot of mistakes on the game as well which, in all truth, I can't blame them for. They've back themselves into a corner. There is NOTHING they can do to make WoW better and WloD is proof of that. It is more accurate to say that WoW is going to retire and lose its crown but it will still have huge impacts on the MMO community for at least a few years more.
I was into WoW since beta and I loved everything about the game from game play to lore. But as time went on, more specifically Cata, many including me began to see WoW was getting on in years. Some left because they got board. I left in MoP when I realized that the game no longer required any effort to play. Raiding was a joke and had been since Cata, lore was getting tossed around to the point where it became uninteresting. Worst end-expansion boss EVER (and I don't mean if difficultly... Far from it actually...)
I think Wildstar will do a lot of damage to WoW's subs but it won't be a 'WoW killer". That's just a silly thought. To some a hopeful but fruitless wish. If the devs of Wildstar do not follow WoW's future mistakes I think it can have a long, if not longer reign then WoW did but we will have to see what the future holds. I am personally looking forward to Wildstar and hope to see great things.
Comments
this wont go anywhere, near wow
action-combat, raid focused..expect 300-400k subs
i wont buy it , without a free trial
Wow (pun intended!)
There certainly seems to be a lot of butt hurt WoW bum boys in this thread leaping to attack the OP for his opinion
I'd say that means WS must be doing something right
It's also one of the reasons the WoW community is so toxic and juvenile imo.
Driz
A great list of free games (mostly MMORPGs): http://www.mytop10games.com/
I believe the largest group is players who play the content, un-sub, wait for new content, re-sub and so on. I can readily see this on the most popular EU server (Silvermoon) and from my guild that had 180 members and I think has been the pattern in WoW. That is why the WoW devs feversly release new content regularly but also patches that contain additional content in between major releases.
I think for any game to hit WoW hard it has to prove it is worthy of the subscription, let alone worthy of the initial purchase. From what I have seen all these years (since 2002 and SWG) and all these MMOs, each had one or more catastrophic design flaws so as never to threaten WoW.
Somebody needs to tell you guys that the age of new MMORPG's conquering the subscription markets came to an end with SWTOR.
There you had the perfect Lore, the perfect marketing and a perfect goal to reach 12.000.000 (sic) subs in the biggest franchise of the universe.
2 years later and we know better.
Or so I thought ....
Surely that is not what SWTOR is. SWTOR, like so many other MMOs since 2000, has catastrophic flaws, which even a three year old would tell you about!
1) It is extraordinarily linear. You cannot make a toon and go explore. You cannot go meet your friends on some other place. You have to keep doing a single line of quests and be limited to whichever zone these quests are in and only successful completion of those quests will allow you to exit the zone! If that is not the most idiotic design ever then I do not know what is. It's worse than games made in the 90s.
2) the maps are all fake - there is no 3D world, you are always constrained by invisible barriers so you have to travel on a certain path - even in year 2000 we had games with full open worlds you could wander in. Another terrible design reminiscent of 90's games.
So SWTOR may be OK as a single player game just to go through the lore maybe, but then why pay subscription and why be online for a single player game?
No wonder the game flopped.
"Those who stay will be champions"
swtor had the possibility, but not the skills
next chance will prolly be TITAN, in 2016
Still, im going to wait it out a few months. If after 3-6 months the game is still booming then ill take a chance. I just dont trust anything NCSoft does anymore. They have the worst CSR rep I have ever heard of by a long shot and will screw their customers over if itll get them an extra penny. Theyre the EA of MMOs. I know theyre not the company thats developing the game ... but Carbine just chose to partner up with the dirtiest publisher of the MMO genre, and im not biting unless it proves itself first.
we cant talk boxing, without mentioning the champ..sorry dude
The thread topic has been done to death already but it did give me one curious thought.
I wonder whether the attitude in the thread would be the same or the polar opposite if this game was being released (exactly as it is) by Blizzard as a spiritual successor to WoW. I'd put money on the thread being full of people falling over themselves wanting to play it
Highly doubtful, even if it was Blizzard releasing this game, i would really not be interested. The graphics look too cartoony, and we have way too many games like that already, but even ignoring that, what i've seen so far just does not look interesting, whoever is doing the hype is doing a good job of destroying the game imo, the less seen of it the better.
WoW is already dying, it is losing subs in a growing market. It isn't being killed by any new MMO or any other single cause. It is dying due to a mixture of old age, poor expansions, bored people and other, more attractive multiplayer games like Dota, League of Legends or even call of duty. Players who are specifically attracted to MMO's or multiplayer games now have a lot of choices. This is no longer the same world where multiplayer games, digital downloads and the like are novelties. We have a choice in what to play, how to play them, and how to pay for them.
Yet the fact that WoW still has millions of subscribers despite its age is either a testament to Blizzard as a publisher and developer or evidence of how poorly other developers have done in creating MMO's that can compete with WoW over the long term.
Wow has so many subscribers because they reach an audience that most gamers don't want to see games go.
Wow is so easy that many older gamers play it, many mmo players parents play wow. WoW also plays decently on almost any computer, most mmo gamers don't have good computers. My freind still plays wow, her mother plays as do her 2 younger children. Find me another mmo that can get that kind playerbase spread.
If a game came out that was aimed at the 2 things above the serious crowd would say it was so bad that nobody would play it because of the bad reputation the serious crowd would give to it (even the target audience), that's why nothing will come close to wow numbers ever and why WoW will be dominant for 5-10 years or vastly more.
Honestly, I'm in beta and haven't even played it lately. I just don't like the races,classes or combat. I'm not sure what it is... but I just don't care for it. Although, I didn't like GW2's combat either.
You mention the story lines and whatnot, which I just found straight up goofy for the most part. It's just a little too "out there" for me. And I can't really explain that lol, but something just doesn't feel right in that game.
I'm not doubting it will take some subs from WoW.. but it's not as easy of a transition from one to the other as you're making it.They do appear to be going graphically the same route with the stylized graphics but that's not enough to make it WoW 2.0. I think when WoD hits, WoW will be just fine.
So basically you're saying that "older gamers" - parents and whatnot are an audience that REAL gamers don't want playing THEIR games? Really? I'm seriously asking you cause this is the first I've heard of this.
I'm just trying to understand... One can only assume that the "serious crowd" you refer to are the hardcore gamers? Is that correct? If so, then you're saying that the hardcore gamers don't want "older gamers" playing the same games as they do... Why? Cause us "older gamers" have no skill and have to play easy games?
Perhaps.. just perhaps some of us "older gamers" (I'm 33, but a parent, so I spose I fit in this category lol) play Warcraft because we just enjoy it. I really don't find any games I have played to be "hard". I just like Warcraft, the lore, the characters, etc. I don't play it because it's easy and runs on my computer.
Maybe Wow is popular because it's a good solid game? Nah, I suppose you're right. It's cause all of us old gaming rejects around the world play it on our monitor mounted toaster computers lol
there are already several hardcore games on the market
EQ and EVE, just to name a couple
they have hardcore gamers, but nobody else
WoW doesnt have that restriction= more gamers=more Money=more content=more gamers..
Okay, saying that WoW is "dying" isn't really accurate. WoW may never actually die, not for a LONG time anyway. Or unless something dramatic happens. WoW is, however, losing popularity fast which is normal. The game is old and like all old things they lose appeal. Blizzard makes a lot of mistakes on the game as well which, in all truth, I can't blame them for. They've back themselves into a corner. There is NOTHING they can do to make WoW better and WloD is proof of that. It is more accurate to say that WoW is going to retire and lose its crown but it will still have huge impacts on the MMO community for at least a few years more.
I was into WoW since beta and I loved everything about the game from game play to lore. But as time went on, more specifically Cata, many including me began to see WoW was getting on in years. Some left because they got board. I left in MoP when I realized that the game no longer required any effort to play. Raiding was a joke and had been since Cata, lore was getting tossed around to the point where it became uninteresting. Worst end-expansion boss EVER (and I don't mean if difficultly... Far from it actually...)
I think Wildstar will do a lot of damage to WoW's subs but it won't be a 'WoW killer". That's just a silly thought. To some a hopeful but fruitless wish. If the devs of Wildstar do not follow WoW's future mistakes I think it can have a long, if not longer reign then WoW did but we will have to see what the future holds. I am personally looking forward to Wildstar and hope to see great things.
People need to get past the idea that another game is going to kill wow. Only two things are going to do this
1. Time
2. WoW Developers