Of course not. It's something I've said over and over again about every indie project that gets announced. It's actually very easy to put together a graphics demo with some proof of concept type shots. It's something entirely different to manage a project when you have no PM skills.
For example, it was a very stupid decision to divert dev resources into oculus rift. I bet it was/is a lot of fun for the devs, though. Getting to play around with VR tech and stuff, while milestones (if they existed) pass by.
1. what is happening to Star Citizen around bad PM skills (which I agree) is not an exmaple of indies. mainstream AAA games are just as bad at it, cost more and have less quality. I think all the games I have played in the last 5 years have been indies. Having said that, Star Citizen project has problems.
2. Oculus Rift is a natural fit for Star Citizen and its a very good idea to spend resources building the product in a way that can use OR later, rather than building a code base that will not adapt.
Looking for success stories on indies? try everywhere.. indies completely smash AAA in quality and cost.
The problem with OR is that, although it could very well be a great fit for the game, it's new tech that's still in development. Exactly the kind of thing that an inexperienced dev team working on their first MMO does not need to get bogged down with. These aren't industry vets with years of MMO experience behind them, as far as I know. MMO's are tough enough to make work without funky VR tech.
You are right about PM issues not being exclusive to indie titles. Most studios in the industry have them, and it's mainly due to the "rockstar dev" that's leading the project who has no business in a PM role. That said, I'm generally more optimistic about new AAA projects unless they're being led by some high-profile dev (then I'm worried). But indie titles have me default to assuming they won't pan out because I've yet to see one turn out an MMO properly and without constant delays.
Even non-mmo indie games are tricky. I have a huge backlog of games on Steam that got Greenlit a year or more ago, which have languished with next to no development. The indie scene is neat, but having an actual publisher helps make sure stuff actually hits the market.
Of course not. It's something I've said over and over again about every indie project that gets announced. It's actually very easy to put together a graphics demo with some proof of concept type shots. It's something entirely different to manage a project when you have no PM skills.
For example, it was a very stupid decision to divert dev resources into oculus rift. I bet it was/is a lot of fun for the devs, though. Getting to play around with VR tech and stuff, while milestones (if they existed) pass by.
1. what is happening to Star Citizen around bad PM skills (which I agree) is not an exmaple of indies. mainstream AAA games are just as bad at it, cost more and have less quality. I think all the games I have played in the last 5 years have been indies. Having said that, Star Citizen project has problems.
2. Oculus Rift is a natural fit for Star Citizen and its a very good idea to spend resources building the product in a way that can use OR later, rather than building a code base that will not adapt.
Looking for success stories on indies? try everywhere.. indies completely smash AAA in quality and cost.
The problem with OR is that, although it could very well be a great fit for the game, it's new tech that's still in development. Exactly the kind of thing that an inexperienced dev team working on their first MMO does not need to get bogged down with. These aren't industry vets with years of MMO experience behind them, as far as I know. MMO's are tough enough to make work without funky VR tech.
You are right about PM issues not being exclusive to indie titles. Most studios in the industry have them, and it's mainly due to the "rockstar dev" that's leading the project who has no business in a PM role. That said, I'm generally more optimistic about new AAA projects unless they're being led by some high-profile dev (then I'm worried). But indie titles have me default to assuming they won't pan out because I've yet to see one turn out an MMO properly and without constant delays.
Even non-mmo indie games are tricky. I have a huge backlog of games on Steam that got Greenlit a year or more ago, which have languished with next to no development. The indie scene is neat, but having an actual publisher helps make sure stuff actually hits the market.
The have many MMO industry Vets working on the project. In fact they just hired Alex Mayberry an Executive Producer from WOW and Diablo 3. He's been with Blizzard since the Burning Crusade and he left them to work as the EP on Star Citizen.
The have many MMO industry Vets working on the project. In fact they just hired Alex Mayberry an Executive Producer from WOW and Diablo 3. He's been with Blizzard since the Burning Crusade and he left them to work as the EP on Star Citizen.
Bren
Obviously they need to get better "industry vets" then, because they can't seem to stick to milestones. At all.
The have many MMO industry Vets working on the project. In fact they just hired Alex Mayberry an Executive Producer from WOW and Diablo 3. He's been with Blizzard since the Burning Crusade and he left them to work as the EP on Star Citizen.
Bren
Obviously they need to get better "industry vets" then, because they can't seem to stick to milestones. At all.
and honestly dog fighting in multiplayer with high resolution assets is a world of a difference from WoW.
I do wish them well, nearly everything about the game sounds great and right up my ally of interest. I do plan to join once the DFM is stable.
The game industry itself really needs better time predictions. I think the small bu often releases and patches is a good way to go though
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
The have many MMO industry Vets working on the project. In fact they just hired Alex Mayberry an Executive Producer from WOW and Diablo 3. He's been with Blizzard since the Burning Crusade and he left them to work as the EP on Star Citizen.
Bren
Obviously they need to get better "industry vets" then, because they can't seem to stick to milestones. At all.
How many other pre-Alpha AAA games have you been a part of that don't have delays in early production? None I would guess because no other AAA game has allowed players to see what is behind the closed doors at their studio. Heck you don't even hear about AAA games until they are almost to a early Beta stage for the most part. All software development has delays such as these in the early stages of development you just have never been allowed to see it before Star Citizen.
Star Citizen is not taking or robbing people's money. They are shelling out the money freely and i can only think about the lessons to be learned if Chris Roberts fail to deliver.
It is not his fault, everyone has their own idea of how this game will be and it probably is not what Chris Roberts has in mind. The launch of Star Citizen is one of those worthy of popcorn and beer.
If the game fails nobody can complain. Real backers (people who funded the requested amount) know the risks of KS, and the Charity people (everyone giving him more money even though its already funded) well, the game is already funded so to me they are not really backers of the project.
Star Citizen is not taking or robbing people's money. They are shelling out the money freely and i can only think about the lessons to be learned if Chris Roberts fail to deliver.
It is not his fault, everyone has their own idea of how this game will be and it probably is not what Chris Roberts has in mind. The launch of Star Citizen is one of those worthy of popcorn and beer.
... I gave it the second I saw the Squadron 42 trailer. I actually pre-ordered Wing Commander back in the day and got a signed copy of the game, a wonderfully nerdy Wing Commander Hat, and a free "Secret Missions" expansion disc.
Honestly I care less about the full multiplayer game than I do about Squadron 42... THAT game has me drooling!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
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The have many MMO industry Vets working on the project. In fact they just hired Alex Mayberry an Executive Producer from WOW and Diablo 3. He's been with Blizzard since the Burning Crusade and he left them to work as the EP on Star Citizen.
Bren
Obviously they need to get better "industry vets" then, because they can't seem to stick to milestones. At all.
How many other pre-Alpha AAA games have you been a part of that don't have delays in early production? None I would guess because no other AAA game has allowed players to see what is behind the closed doors at their studio. Heck you don't even hear about AAA games until they are almost to a early Beta stage for the most part. All software development has delays such as these in the early stages of development you just have never been allowed to see it before Star Citizen.
The 'open door' policy has been brilliant for better milking of the whales. Without even having to deliver. It is a clever marketing coup.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
If you came here to defend Star Citizen , don't worry , i'm not going to troll it.
If you came here thinking it's yet another thread to throw mud on star citizen and the zillions it's robbing people , I am not going to do that either.
I'll try to be objective.
There seems to be a lot of hate towards this game. And while I can understand some people like different things, what these people say about the game is most of the time baseless, really made up stuff, and they make you think they never watched any Wingman's Hangar show or live streams.
It' so baseless that at some point I'm starting to wonder , are they a cult ? Is someone paying them to do that ?
I'm not gonna start defending each claim , not worth it.
What I want to do is put real verifiable things in a better perspective.
The high cost of ships that get's thrown around a lot. It's not a price, it's more like amounts that are possible to donate.
it's true , that you get a bigger ship if you donate more, but it's donation , you can get all those things ingame.
If they will only sell $50 packages , how wold you fund the game ? Why would you buy 10 of the same thing to donate $500 ? This subject is the preferred anti crowd funding tool used by "publisher employees" haters , trolls and company.
The only ugly truth is that in this world there are people for whom $1000 is pocket money, and people that $10 is a big investment. Why the imbalance that is another issue.
Now on the whole there is no game yet and they have that much money.
I'd ask that people on how long do they thing a team works on a publisher game before they even let people know they are working on it.
Star Citizen has only one year of development. And not even that , there was no big game company before that year that started full throttle. There was no big cache of money at the start of project. It's one year of starting all from 0.
To claim that it didn't deliver anything it's actually so short sided you should not be near a keyboard without a helmet.
Star Citizen is something completely new , It can be more compared to a TV show about making a game , and you get to watch from day 1. Not after 3 years of secret research and development.
I challenge you to show me any other game that in it's first year provided more entertainment that Star Citizen. Don't think there is one , because games have not been made in the view of the public EVER before.
The game is not at alfa stage , not even pre alfa. The game is being made. And what they do is sharing the process of making the game with people that might have no idea about how a game is made.
The fact that some people compare graphics and things from Star Citizen at this stage to that of released games , and start shouting it's not even looking that good, to these people I say , THANK YOU. You are doing it a service , if a game that barely started from scratch can compare with some sequel of a game that underwent 2-3 years of development and already had a team that worked on previous installments , than honestly you are doing it a service.
If you will read the thread title again , does it still stir you that much? It's just a statement, Star Citizen is indeed accepting people's money, as a donation to a cause , be it good or bad. And you can a small amount , as much as small amount means to your wallet.
I'll leave you all with a question I have been asking myself for a while.
" With the latest success of so many highly crowd funded games , what are the publishers doing about it ? What is their play to stop this trend , to discourage crowd funding? "
A lot of hate? From a game that has been the most successful kickstarted game in existence? I'm not one to call people names (mainly out of fear of bans) but can you please think before you post? Opinions are fine and you are entitled to them but to pass it off as fact In the face of overwhelming evidence in the contrary is just silly.
I have no intention of ever playing the game but I bet it's going to do amazingly well when its released based on the Kickstarting evidence. Too me that isn't the mark of a lot of hate.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Wasteland 2 is coming out soon so we will see how that one turns out. I bought a digital version through kickstarter for about $25 I think. . guessing I am going to get my moneys worth there.
I am not loving how Star Citizen markets their ships. . definately created in a way to pull as much money out of people as possible. . same with a few other games.
Since you have to create an account, log in, choose a payment method and submit the payment I can't say they are robbing anyone. Do I think some people will regret the money spent. . yep.
Also, I am mostly worried that they are finding pre-selling things is likely going to be more lucrative then selling ships after the game launches. . which could keep them wanting to drag out development? Someone might think. . ah. . what is another $15 . . . and a month later thinking the same thing. It is no different than paying a sub fee right? .. except you aren't playing the game
#1 There is a ton of multimedia content as well as the Forum, the Wingman's Hanger, and more for Star Citizen that is all free.
#2 Donating to Star Citizen is completely optional, if you do not wish to donate anything at all, you can still participate in the production of the game though feedback on the official forum or even writing directly to the dev team.
So, with the above in mind, people who have the pretentious audacity to decide for everyone else what is valuable for them to spend their money on and what isn't can take their unsolicited advice and shove it right back up where it came from.
I wanted to drop my own opinion here even though I have not donated to the crowdfunding project of Star Citizen.
Disclaimer: My opinion, and in no way am I telling anyone else what to do. Everyone can do what they please.
I will never donate to any crowd funding project of any Online Game, MMO, or MMORPG (or any other Gaming product.) As far as I know there is no solid and established customer legal safeguards for this type of endeavor. I don't see it as investing, since Players do not end up owning Stocks in the MMO Publisher or any of their subsidiaries. It's a donation, nothing more, and with no hope or guarantee of a return in any way shape or form.
Why? Because all Humans are greedy. They would sell their relatives before losing money, most of them. How do I know a particular Developer is one of a tiny minority that actually has and practices a form of ethical code that support treating customers fairly? Hmm? I don't now if this Dev or That Dev is "honorable" anymore than I know can trust a Politician or a Used Car Salesman. Some Politicians and Used Car Salesman ARE good People, just hard to tell most of the time. I don't like that kind of uncertainty.
So I choose to consider all crowdfunding as "Suspect Endeavors" and I choose to regard all Devs and MMO Publishing companies that hold a crowdfunding event as "Suspect" as well. I'm not passing judgement against any People here, just that I see this as VERY RISKY with no legal recourse if I as a contributor get burned. To me that is what I call "Suspect". I won't participate in a Crowdfunding by donating, nor will I buy the game/mmo when it is released at all. At the present time I see crowdfunding events for MMOs the same as I see Emulators for MMOs... avoid the Emu games and the Emu Devs at all cost. Until then I want nothing to do with the crowdfunding event or it's organizers or it's benefactors.
If someday real Laws get enacted that provide real legal protections for Contributors to Crowdfunding projects.. and precedences in Courts to back them up... then I will reconsider my decision and opinion on this. ... However, in the current political, business, and judicial climate in the US I highly doubt I will live to see any Laws protecting contributors to crowdfunding events get any real legal protections.
So for Star Citizen, I am avoiding this MMO even when it releases. I really don't trust the Dev Team of any MMO that would run a crowdfunding event. When I say I don't "trust" them what I mean is I feel their system of acceptable ethics and my own are not a match or equal. Every Business relationship to me is a relationship first, and common ground must be found between the parties in a relationship before business should begin. I personally have had too many bad business relationships in this life and I want to avoid any more that come along. When I don't believe crowdfunding is ethical, yet a Dev Team does, that right there in my mind is a mismatch for a good business relationship.
Star Citizen might end up actually being made and launched... I hope it will be... for the Players that have contributed, and the Players to come, and for the Devs themselves. We need more Space MMOs that's for certain... IMO.
Disclaimer: My opinion, and in no way am I telling anyone else what to do. Everyone can do what they please.
I wanted to drop my own opinion here even though I have not donated to the crowdfunding project of Star Citizen.
Disclaimer: My opinion, and in no way am I telling anyone else what to do. Everyone can do what they please.
I will never donate to any crowd funding project of any Online Game, MMO, or MMORPG (or any other Gaming product.) As far as I know there is no solid and established customer legal safeguards for this type of endeavor. I don't see it as investing, since Players do not end up owning Stocks in the MMO Publisher or any of their subsidiaries. It's a donation, nothing more, and with no hope or guarantee of a return in any way shape or form.
Why? Because all Humans are greedy. They would sell their relatives before losing money, most of them. How do I know a particular Developer is one of a tiny minority that actually has and practices a form of ethical code that support treating customers fairly? Hmm? I don't now if this Dev or That Dev is "honorable" anymore than I know can trust a Politician or a Used Car Salesman. Some Politicians and Used Car Salesman ARE good People, just hard to tell most of the time. I don't like that kind of uncertainty.
So I choose to consider all crowdfunding as "Suspect Endeavors" and I choose to regard all Devs and MMO Publishing companies that hold a crowdfunding event as "Suspect" as well. I'm not passing judgement against any People here, just that I see this as VERY RISKY with no legal recourse if I as a contributor get burned. To me that is what I call "Suspect". I won't participate in a Crowdfunding by donating, nor will I buy the game/mmo when it is released at all. At the present time I see crowdfunding events for MMOs the same as I see Emulators for MMOs... avoid the Emu games and the Emu Devs at all cost. Until then I want nothing to do with the crowdfunding event or it's organizers or it's benefactors.
If someday real Laws get enacted that provide real legal protections for Contributors to Crowdfunding projects.. and precedences in Courts to back them up... then I will reconsider my decision and opinion on this. ... However, in the current political, business, and judicial climate in the US I highly doubt I will live to see any Laws protecting contributors to crowdfunding events get any real legal protections.
So for Star Citizen, I am avoiding this MMO even when it releases. I really don't trust the Dev Team of any MMO that would run a crowdfunding event. When I say I don't "trust" them what I mean is I feel their system of acceptable ethics and my own are not a match or equal. Every Business relationship to me is a relationship first, and common ground must be found between the parties in a relationship before business should begin. I personally have had too many bad business relationships in this life and I want to avoid any more that come along. When I don't believe crowdfunding is ethical, yet a Dev Team does, that right there in my mind is a mismatch for a good business relationship.
Star Citizen might end up actually being made and launched... I hope it will be... for the Players that have contributed, and the Players to come, and for the Devs themselves. We need more Space MMOs that's for certain... IMO.
Disclaimer: My opinion, and in no way am I telling anyone else what to do. Everyone can do what they please.
I agree. However, in this instance, I think the reputation of the CEO (Chris Roberts) and others on his team would be in question if they attempted to do something untoward. I do agree that you have to have a LOT of faith in those attempting a crowd funding project...no matter who that might be. However, if people failed to take any risk in life, you would never see much in the way of advancement. I would rather take a small risk and hope that THIS funded project will bring about great things. Now, with that said, I would temper that by saying that the only thing I hope to see in return is NOT monetary. In this case, I am betting that someone has a great enough vision of a gaming genre that I can get behind and at the same time see that genre moved forward. Again, it takes a certain amount of faith.
As I have pointed out before if one wants to find evidence of corruption, mismanagement and liying to the public the place to look is in the AAA area. Yes it happens in indies and startups too but its much more prolific in AAA games.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Do you guys watched their show at PAX? A massive disaster, one of the biggest fail on the gaming history. I felt so bad for Chris, i even though he was going to cry LIVE.
Sorry but Star Citizen is not going to happen.
Dont put hope in it or you guys are just going to be disapointed (and scammed btw).
Originally posted by Copypasterino Dont put hope in it or you guys are just going to be disapointed (and scammed btw).Better ask for a refund before it's too late.
A few delays do not equate a scam.
It was too late to ask for a refund the second people sent the money.
Do you guys watched their show at PAX? A massive disaster, one of the biggest fail on the gaming history. I felt so bad for Chris, i even though he was going to cry LIVE.
Sorry but Star Citizen is not going to happen.
Dont put hope in it or you guys are just going to be disapointed (and scammed btw).
Better ask for a refund before it's too late.
Lol. You are new to gaming? Never played a game? Never experienced a delay of Release, or any Development Milestone in any Software Development(Gaming or not)?
In all honestly delays in software development is a lot more the norm than it is unexpected. Because it is a lot more unpredictable and foreseeable than anything. But that does not mean you can't solve problems given the time.
But now i tell you something. Chris Roberts was in charge of Software Development, especially for Game Development for 9 games (not counting AddOns), and all of them major successes. Furthermore producer in the movie industry for 7+ movies.
With other words he absolutely knows how to produce stuff and ship it. And Star Citizen is nothing else.. all that doesn't mean that delays don't happen, or that it may take some time.
Major AAA MMOs do usually have a budget over 100 millionen and take more than 5 years to release.. so don't expect anything else for Star Citizen. With other words a lot people like you can complain 3+ years, that it is not released. But it will.
And about crowd-funding in general:
It is always a personal choice. Not everyone have to do it. Some do it to help developing a certain game, because they trust the developers and believe in that vision. I personally would never donate hundreds of $ or more. That's my choice, but i do back games for the amount of money i usually would spend for buying the game.. especially if i would buy that game from that developer anyways. And i did it for Star Citizen.. because i bought all games from Chris Roberts, and i enjoyed all games from him.. and i am more than happy that he develops another game, and i am happy to help it, that this game gets developed.
In my humble opinion kickstarter, crowd-funding is a good thing to help developers to make their vision true and don't get compromised from publishers as it is usually in this business. Nevertheless is a platform like Kickstarter or crowd-funding a risk... because it may get abused from ppl claiming to delivering anything, but don't deliver what they promised. But finally all that comes down to reputation. Can i trust the developer asking for crowd-funding? Or i am willing to invest that money without anything in return? Those needs to be asked from everyone themself.. and then they have to make the decision. As do i.. i crowd-funded some games... but by far not every interesting game. I expect renown developers and a good thoughout design idea.. if both happen to be what i expect, then i am willingly to crowd-fund to help developing some games, we would otherwise never get.
Anyone who hasn't actually parted with any cash to support Star Citizen doesn't really have a right to comment imo. Don't want to support the game then that's fine but don't dictate how others spend their money.
No money was taken it was given freely because they believe in the game, if it doesn't work out then so be it. How many of us have spent money on hyped mmo's, i would say all of us.
Everyone has a right to comment on anything. With freedom you have to take the good with the bad.
Ok, freedom of speech and all but why would you want to comment, if you haven't spent any money then why the hell would it bother you how other spend their money, perhaps it envy.
These are the kind of mmo players that will be complaining that other who supported the game have more than them, pathetic really.
Or perhaps this will become how all future mmo will get made. If you don't give the dev's alpha money you will be gimped when you try to play the game because you didn't give them development money. It amazes me that gamers like you don't see how this is a bad thing for all gamers in the long run. Its not just about you throwing your money away. It goes a little bit deeper than your ego.
What I think some people dont get is that if you contributed to the kickstart you get fancy ships, so when the game launches all new players are going to start with a buckett of rust against aircraft carriers, is that all starting at the same level?
Originally posted by mayito7777 What I think some people dont get is that if you contributed to the kickstart you get fancy ships, so when the game launches all new players are going to start with a buckett of rust against aircraft carriers, is that all starting at the same level?
Honestly when I kickstart a game development project, I am paying for game development.
I am not paying so so and so can pay his mortgage, buy his groceries, or pay outstanding medical bills.
There was a time when I was a small business owner, EVERY penny of company fiance, and every cent of profit went directly back into the business. Product, distribution, advertising, and taxes.
For 4 years I did not take a salary, my wife and I lived off my savings that any business class tells you to have before launching a new business, and my wife's earnings.
A small startup software project should NEVER touch a single penny of donated money for personal use.
If they do that is fraud and is a crime. PERIOD!
Until the product is completed and can generate a revenue stream of profit then NOBODY gets paid.
Sorry if that means working PT jobs, or having your spouse pay the bills, sorry if its tough but that is what it means to be an entrepreneur.
If they do not like it then they need to go get a 9-5 corporate job and stop using kickstarter to steal money.
Originally posted by psiic I am not paying so so and so can pay his mortgage, buy his groceries, or pay outstanding medical bills.
Until the product is completed and can generate a revenue stream of profit then NOBODY gets paid.
Yeah, that seems like a great way to get quality programmers to come and work for you.
The bulk of the money raised via large kickstarter software projects is obviously going to be used on paying salaries for the large teams involved, for the several years the project has no other income.
You running a small business is in no way relevant to a massive software project, with hundreds of people involved.
Comments
The problem with OR is that, although it could very well be a great fit for the game, it's new tech that's still in development. Exactly the kind of thing that an inexperienced dev team working on their first MMO does not need to get bogged down with. These aren't industry vets with years of MMO experience behind them, as far as I know. MMO's are tough enough to make work without funky VR tech.
You are right about PM issues not being exclusive to indie titles. Most studios in the industry have them, and it's mainly due to the "rockstar dev" that's leading the project who has no business in a PM role. That said, I'm generally more optimistic about new AAA projects unless they're being led by some high-profile dev (then I'm worried). But indie titles have me default to assuming they won't pan out because I've yet to see one turn out an MMO properly and without constant delays.
Even non-mmo indie games are tricky. I have a huge backlog of games on Steam that got Greenlit a year or more ago, which have languished with next to no development. The indie scene is neat, but having an actual publisher helps make sure stuff actually hits the market.
You make me like charity
The have many MMO industry Vets working on the project. In fact they just hired Alex Mayberry an Executive Producer from WOW and Diablo 3. He's been with Blizzard since the Burning Crusade and he left them to work as the EP on Star Citizen.
Bren
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Obviously they need to get better "industry vets" then, because they can't seem to stick to milestones. At all.
You make me like charity
and honestly dog fighting in multiplayer with high resolution assets is a world of a difference from WoW.
I do wish them well, nearly everything about the game sounds great and right up my ally of interest. I do plan to join once the DFM is stable.
The game industry itself really needs better time predictions. I think the small bu often releases and patches is a good way to go though
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
How many other pre-Alpha AAA games have you been a part of that don't have delays in early production? None I would guess because no other AAA game has allowed players to see what is behind the closed doors at their studio. Heck you don't even hear about AAA games until they are almost to a early Beta stage for the most part. All software development has delays such as these in the early stages of development you just have never been allowed to see it before Star Citizen.
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Star Citizen is not taking or robbing people's money. They are shelling out the money freely and i can only think about the lessons to be learned if Chris Roberts fail to deliver.
It is not his fault, everyone has their own idea of how this game will be and it probably is not what Chris Roberts has in mind. The launch of Star Citizen is one of those worthy of popcorn and beer.
If the game fails nobody can complain. Real backers (people who funded the requested amount) know the risks of KS, and the Charity people (everyone giving him more money even though its already funded) well, the game is already funded so to me they are not really backers of the project.
There is going to be tears...
Star Citizen did take my money...
... I gave it the second I saw the Squadron 42 trailer. I actually pre-ordered Wing Commander back in the day and got a signed copy of the game, a wonderfully nerdy Wing Commander Hat, and a free "Secret Missions" expansion disc.
Honestly I care less about the full multiplayer game than I do about Squadron 42... THAT game has me drooling!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Chris Roberts is not taking peoples money.
If you want to find a gaming company that is doing that look at Zenimax
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
The 'open door' policy has been brilliant for better milking of the whales. Without even having to deliver. It is a clever marketing coup.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
A lot of hate? From a game that has been the most successful kickstarted game in existence? I'm not one to call people names (mainly out of fear of bans) but can you please think before you post? Opinions are fine and you are entitled to them but to pass it off as fact In the face of overwhelming evidence in the contrary is just silly.
I have no intention of ever playing the game but I bet it's going to do amazingly well when its released based on the Kickstarting evidence. Too me that isn't the mark of a lot of hate.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Wasteland 2 is coming out soon so we will see how that one turns out. I bought a digital version through kickstarter for about $25 I think. . guessing I am going to get my moneys worth there.
I am not loving how Star Citizen markets their ships. . definately created in a way to pull as much money out of people as possible. . same with a few other games.
Since you have to create an account, log in, choose a payment method and submit the payment I can't say they are robbing anyone. Do I think some people will regret the money spent. . yep.
Also, I am mostly worried that they are finding pre-selling things is likely going to be more lucrative then selling ships after the game launches. . which could keep them wanting to drag out development? Someone might think. . ah. . what is another $15 . . . and a month later thinking the same thing. It is no different than paying a sub fee right? .. except you aren't playing the game
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
I just spent $150 on the Archeage alpha access deal, so I can't say shit about anyone else spending money on a game that hasn't been released yet.
For some, a separate pleasure comes from spending their money on something they want, and then again on getting that product.
If people want to pay, let them pay!
#1 There is a ton of multimedia content as well as the Forum, the Wingman's Hanger, and more for Star Citizen that is all free.
#2 Donating to Star Citizen is completely optional, if you do not wish to donate anything at all, you can still participate in the production of the game though feedback on the official forum or even writing directly to the dev team.
So, with the above in mind, people who have the pretentious audacity to decide for everyone else what is valuable for them to spend their money on and what isn't can take their unsolicited advice and shove it right back up where it came from.
I wanted to drop my own opinion here even though I have not donated to the crowdfunding project of Star Citizen.
Disclaimer: My opinion, and in no way am I telling anyone else what to do. Everyone can do what they please.
I will never donate to any crowd funding project of any Online Game, MMO, or MMORPG (or any other Gaming product.) As far as I know there is no solid and established customer legal safeguards for this type of endeavor. I don't see it as investing, since Players do not end up owning Stocks in the MMO Publisher or any of their subsidiaries. It's a donation, nothing more, and with no hope or guarantee of a return in any way shape or form.
Why? Because all Humans are greedy. They would sell their relatives before losing money, most of them. How do I know a particular Developer is one of a tiny minority that actually has and practices a form of ethical code that support treating customers fairly? Hmm? I don't now if this Dev or That Dev is "honorable" anymore than I know can trust a Politician or a Used Car Salesman. Some Politicians and Used Car Salesman ARE good People, just hard to tell most of the time. I don't like that kind of uncertainty.
So I choose to consider all crowdfunding as "Suspect Endeavors" and I choose to regard all Devs and MMO Publishing companies that hold a crowdfunding event as "Suspect" as well. I'm not passing judgement against any People here, just that I see this as VERY RISKY with no legal recourse if I as a contributor get burned. To me that is what I call "Suspect". I won't participate in a Crowdfunding by donating, nor will I buy the game/mmo when it is released at all. At the present time I see crowdfunding events for MMOs the same as I see Emulators for MMOs... avoid the Emu games and the Emu Devs at all cost. Until then I want nothing to do with the crowdfunding event or it's organizers or it's benefactors.
If someday real Laws get enacted that provide real legal protections for Contributors to Crowdfunding projects.. and precedences in Courts to back them up... then I will reconsider my decision and opinion on this. ... However, in the current political, business, and judicial climate in the US I highly doubt I will live to see any Laws protecting contributors to crowdfunding events get any real legal protections.
So for Star Citizen, I am avoiding this MMO even when it releases. I really don't trust the Dev Team of any MMO that would run a crowdfunding event. When I say I don't "trust" them what I mean is I feel their system of acceptable ethics and my own are not a match or equal. Every Business relationship to me is a relationship first, and common ground must be found between the parties in a relationship before business should begin. I personally have had too many bad business relationships in this life and I want to avoid any more that come along. When I don't believe crowdfunding is ethical, yet a Dev Team does, that right there in my mind is a mismatch for a good business relationship.
Star Citizen might end up actually being made and launched... I hope it will be... for the Players that have contributed, and the Players to come, and for the Devs themselves. We need more Space MMOs that's for certain... IMO.
Disclaimer: My opinion, and in no way am I telling anyone else what to do. Everyone can do what they please.
I agree. However, in this instance, I think the reputation of the CEO (Chris Roberts) and others on his team would be in question if they attempted to do something untoward. I do agree that you have to have a LOT of faith in those attempting a crowd funding project...no matter who that might be. However, if people failed to take any risk in life, you would never see much in the way of advancement. I would rather take a small risk and hope that THIS funded project will bring about great things. Now, with that said, I would temper that by saying that the only thing I hope to see in return is NOT monetary. In this case, I am betting that someone has a great enough vision of a gaming genre that I can get behind and at the same time see that genre moved forward. Again, it takes a certain amount of faith.
Let's party like it is 1863!
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
is that the 3rd delay?
Do you guys watched their show at PAX? A massive disaster, one of the biggest fail on the gaming history. I felt so bad for Chris, i even though he was going to cry LIVE.
Sorry but Star Citizen is not going to happen.
Dont put hope in it or you guys are just going to be disapointed (and scammed btw).
Better ask for a refund before it's too late.
A few delays do not equate a scam.
It was too late to ask for a refund the second people sent the money.
Lol. You are new to gaming? Never played a game? Never experienced a delay of Release, or any Development Milestone in any Software Development(Gaming or not)?
In all honestly delays in software development is a lot more the norm than it is unexpected. Because it is a lot more unpredictable and foreseeable than anything. But that does not mean you can't solve problems given the time.
But now i tell you something. Chris Roberts was in charge of Software Development, especially for Game Development for 9 games (not counting AddOns), and all of them major successes. Furthermore producer in the movie industry for 7+ movies.
With other words he absolutely knows how to produce stuff and ship it. And Star Citizen is nothing else.. all that doesn't mean that delays don't happen, or that it may take some time.
Major AAA MMOs do usually have a budget over 100 millionen and take more than 5 years to release.. so don't expect anything else for Star Citizen. With other words a lot people like you can complain 3+ years, that it is not released. But it will.
And about crowd-funding in general:
It is always a personal choice. Not everyone have to do it. Some do it to help developing a certain game, because they trust the developers and believe in that vision. I personally would never donate hundreds of $ or more. That's my choice, but i do back games for the amount of money i usually would spend for buying the game.. especially if i would buy that game from that developer anyways. And i did it for Star Citizen.. because i bought all games from Chris Roberts, and i enjoyed all games from him.. and i am more than happy that he develops another game, and i am happy to help it, that this game gets developed.
In my humble opinion kickstarter, crowd-funding is a good thing to help developers to make their vision true and don't get compromised from publishers as it is usually in this business. Nevertheless is a platform like Kickstarter or crowd-funding a risk... because it may get abused from ppl claiming to delivering anything, but don't deliver what they promised. But finally all that comes down to reputation. Can i trust the developer asking for crowd-funding? Or i am willing to invest that money without anything in return? Those needs to be asked from everyone themself.. and then they have to make the decision. As do i.. i crowd-funded some games... but by far not every interesting game. I expect renown developers and a good thoughout design idea.. if both happen to be what i expect, then i am willingly to crowd-fund to help developing some games, we would otherwise never get.
Or perhaps this will become how all future mmo will get made. If you don't give the dev's alpha money you will be gimped when you try to play the game because you didn't give them development money. It amazes me that gamers like you don't see how this is a bad thing for all gamers in the long run. Its not just about you throwing your money away. It goes a little bit deeper than your ego.
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
Kinda definition of P2W to me...
Honestly when I kickstart a game development project, I am paying for game development.
I am not paying so so and so can pay his mortgage, buy his groceries, or pay outstanding medical bills.
There was a time when I was a small business owner, EVERY penny of company fiance, and every cent of profit went directly back into the business. Product, distribution, advertising, and taxes.
For 4 years I did not take a salary, my wife and I lived off my savings that any business class tells you to have before launching a new business, and my wife's earnings.
A small startup software project should NEVER touch a single penny of donated money for personal use.
If they do that is fraud and is a crime. PERIOD!
Until the product is completed and can generate a revenue stream of profit then NOBODY gets paid.
Sorry if that means working PT jobs, or having your spouse pay the bills, sorry if its tough but that is what it means to be an entrepreneur.
If they do not like it then they need to go get a 9-5 corporate job and stop using kickstarter to steal money.
Yeah, that seems like a great way to get quality programmers to come and work for you.
The bulk of the money raised via large kickstarter software projects is obviously going to be used on paying salaries for the large teams involved, for the several years the project has no other income.
You running a small business is in no way relevant to a massive software project, with hundreds of people involved.