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EoC 'New Direction'?
TheLizardbones
Member CommonPosts: 10,910
Haven't seen this posted yet. Basically their decision to use the Unity Engine cost them some monetary support, so they are having issues with development. They are looking to partner with another studio, or should they manage to find one willing to accept their terms, sell the game. They are continuing development, but there's going to be some lag.
Here is the forum announcement with the information.
http://www.embersofcaerus.com/forum/showthread.php/3581-A-new-direction-for-Forsaken-Studios
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Comments
After reading through the thread, this is what I learned:
Guy started a kickstarter project with nothing really to show, just some ideas and demos that weren't actually part of the game development.
Guy gets people to work on the game, but isn't present to oversee the project because he's busy running around trying to get more money for a game that's not even started actual development.
Guy decides to change engines and build a new "demo" and this upsets his primary investor who pulls out.
Guy stops deveopment of the game, and is now using the money raised on kickstarter to pay his travel expenses as he attempts to sell his idea to a real studio.
So instead of people donating money to the development of a game, that money is being used so this guy can sell his idea to another development studio.
You left out the guys with the secret sauce in their code - Citadel of Sorcery.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The Kickstarter was started to build an investor prototype to get investor money for building a game.
Not being a developer or even involved in the industry in any way, other than as a player, I can't really comment on the rest of it. I'm going to anyway, since having no experience never seems to stop anyone else.
There is a lot to be said for knowing when to fall back and punt. A lot of people in the industry seem to just barrel ahead with bad ideas, and the games disappear. Maybe selling the game to a developer is a good idea. Maybe not. I would think most developers are pretty well set with ideas for games, so I'm not sure why they would buy this particular game, especially since it hasn't even reached the demo stage. Whatever else is going on though, he needs to at least get a demo built. That is what people paid for after all.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
My first chuckle of the day.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
When asked what people should do about getting their money back, he responded with, and I'm paraphrasing "no one will be getting their money back, I'll be using it to pay for my travel expenses while I attempt to sell my idea to someone else."
He didn't go to kickstarter, and get people to give him money, so that he could use that money to pay travel expenses so he could sell the idea to someone else who doesn't need the kickstarter investment.
This guy is pretty much doing what a lot of people think these kickstarter projects are setting out to do, taking people money and delivering nothing for it. Effectively taking the money and running.
Taking the money and running is EXACTLY what this guy is doing, literally he's running around on the dime of all the people that invested with this guys company to make a game. He's not making any game now, his company doesn't even exist anymore, as was stated several times in the thread by people who were working for the guy.
I'm sorry, but this guy sounds like a con artist.
Once he sells the game, it's no longer his, and the developer that buys it can make the game in whatever way they want, his vision be damned.
The Repopulation has also had a playable Demo at a few of the Cons and Expos. Its actually a working game currently in Alpha Testing.
Thats because the guys at A&BT put their own time and money into building it BEFORE asking for KS donations.
Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.
Games Played: Too Many
Just to question the philosophy. Army of Socrates.
I was just talking to my girl about the whole kickstarter thing, and this is EXACTLY what I was telling her.
Just because someone pitches an idea for something that sounds good, it doesn't mean they're even remotely capable of pulling it off. Ideas are a dime a dozen, being able to actually run a company correctly takes real know how; dreams and vision doesn't cut it, and that's what people are throwing money at.
Misappropriation.
That's what I'm seeing, and that's not the fault of the investors. He's not using the money to do what he said he was going to do to get people to invest.
Yeah in a business setting there would be legal repercussions for acting in this manner with investor money. It will be interesting to watch this unfold. Will be interesting to see what sort of legal precedents will be set with these Kickstarter scams.
While I hate to admit my cynicism (okay, not really) this is my train of thought regarding the game and my rule for investing in a project too. Before I drop a dime on a kickstarter I need to see they are far enough along with some play video to show to be a real game in the works rather than just an idea and a picture. If I read that some guy was flying around on my dime to sell his idea to some one else... O.o
That's what I'm seeing, and that's not the fault of the investors. He's not using the money to do what he said he was going to do to get people to invest.
Getting another developer to build the demo or even better, buy the game and develop it, would fulfill his end of the deal. That's been the goal all along.
I don't think those people are getting their money back though. Just because the goal was to build a demo and make a game doesn't mean it was going to happen. Even if what just happened didn't happen, something else equally devastating could have happened to tank the project.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
It's interesting to me because a lot of the responses in that thread, from community members, are basically all pats on the back. They don't seem to care that this guy isn't using the money in the way he said he would be, and that someone else will end up with the rights to a game they invested in.
Whoever gets the game doesn't care one bit about this guys vision, it's the community of followers that is of value, and it doesn't seem like any of those people realize that whoever he sells to doesn't have to follow his "vision" in any way shape or form, and most likely will not. To top it all off, the Steele guy, or whatever his name is, only seems to be looking out for himself. On top of selling the game, he's trying to ensure that whoever buys it also retains him so that he's guaranteed a job when it's all said and done.
He was pretty clear that no one will be getting any money back, he himself said outright that no one will be getting any money back because he's using it to pay his travel expenses.
Whether another company builds the demo or develops the actual game isn't really the point at this moment in time.
The money he got isn't being used in the capacity that he said it would be when he got people to give him the money, he's using it in a different capacity today. That's misappropriation.
He didn't tell people he wanted money to pay his travel expenses so he could sell an idea to someone, he asked for money to make something he's no longer attempting to make. He's not doing what people gave him money to do.
I'm waiting to see if the people that gave these guys money are just going to bend over and take it or will they actually hold these guys accountable. This is one of the reasons why it's annoying to see posts around here about how paying for alpha and crappy releases is the fault of greedy corporations. If the gamers are willing to let the developers - indie or AAA, it's no different - do things like this with their money, then those gamers are the root of the problem, not the developers.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Getting another developer to build the demo or even better, buy the game and develop it, would fulfill his end of the deal. That's been the goal all along. I don't think those people are getting their money back though. Just because the goal was to build a demo and make a game doesn't mean it was going to happen. Even if what just happened didn't happen, something else equally devastating could have happened to tank the project.
He was pretty clear that no one will be getting any money back, he himself said outright that no one will be getting any money back because he's using it to pay his travel expenses.
Whether another company builds the demo or develops the actual game isn't really the point at this moment in time.
The money he got isn't being used in the capacity that he said it would be when he got people to give him the money, he's using it in a different capacity today. That's misappropriation.
He didn't tell people he wanted money to pay his travel expenses so he could sell an idea to someone, he asked for money to make something he's no longer attempting to make. He's not doing what people gave him money to do.
I'm not saying what he's doing is right, but on the off chance that he ends up getting a developer to actually build something, then the money people gave him will have served the purpose people gave him the money for in the first place. This may be the only possible way that anything is going to get produced from that money. Perhaps this is the best he could come up with when faced with the impossibility of making a demo with the money that was donated. He may just not be very good at this development thing.
Or not. After reading the Kickstarter page I really have to wonder if people made any sort of critical judgement of what was being promised. The Kickstarter was for a game prototype, but their promises and description sound like the completed game. A completed game with pretty much every sandbox feature that anyone could think of, and then some. I mean, I could do that. Come up with a wishlist of features, some pictures and then start a Kickstarter. If I did one a year I would be set pretty much for the rest of my life.
**
OMG. Yes, I used OMG. I just checked out Forsaken Studios' page and looked at the management bio. Rob Steele studied "Industrial Science, Business Management, Creative Writing, Metallurgy and Apprentice Blacksmithing". Why did people give him money? Is it really as simple as just throwing the right words together in a few paragraphs? Man, I have really got to learn that skill.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I think you're hitting the nail on the head.
It's not people investing in the development of games based on any sensible logic, like a sound business plan or because whoever is able to demonstrate an ability to go from concept to inception. It's people throwing money at guys because they say they're making "the game" they're looking for.
Some people are going to use kickstarter to get funding when they aren't able to get it through conventional means because they don't have anything but an idea. Steele had an idea, and that was all. As it stands now it appears he only used kickstarter to build a community and get the money to shop that idea to real development studios.
His developers have been saying that the guy was never present and directing the project from the get-go.
Any developer that buys the game isn't really buying "the game", they're buying the community of followers that Steele has built up, which is the only thing of value that the guy has. I don't think the guys an idiot, and no ones going to buy anything from him unless he was able to show a large enough support for the concept.
I always wondered how much $$ DAWN would have generated if it had been around and able to do a KS.
Fetalpults would have definately been on the Stretch Goals. LOL
Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.
Games Played: Too Many
This is why Garriots - SotA, Jacobs -CU and soon McQuaids - ?? all get funded.
Fanbots throwing money at their Idols Ideas
Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.
Games Played: Too Many
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz_DNrKVrQ8
About sums it up, I think.
Anyone taking bets on which kickstarter MMO will fail / be exposed as a scam next? My money's on Greed Monger.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
#IStandWithVic
I don't really have a problem with people doing this, crowdfunding is an invaluable asset that allows people to get projects done that they otherwise don't have the financial means to do. From my own perspective, as an artist, I wholeheartedly support stuff like this.
If the project fails, it fails, that's just the way things go; nothing is guaranteed.
I have more of an issue of the guy using the money he got people to give him for a project, and instead using it to fund travel expenses without ever doing what he originally said he was going to do with the money.
If I went to someone and convinced them to give me 50k so that I could put on an art exhibit, and instead used that money to travel around the country painting landscapes, I'm pretty sure my ass would be dragged through court for misappropriation.
So being a hatebot makes you better? I have never given anyone money, but if I chose to give someone $25-50, why does it butt hurt people so badly? If I give $50, I give it knowing it could disappear, not like I am going to skip paying bills or skip eating this month to fund a kickstarter.
Hey, you guys may be happy with the crap that comes out now, a lot of us aren't, so when they see something they like, they will throw $25 or so at it, hoping that it or say they threw $25 at 4 of them and 1 comes out that they love, I bet they would find that acceptable.
Like I said, I have never given money, but if I see something I like, I am not against it...I would use information given to decide, but it is my money...Just as if other people give their money, it is theirs to do what they wish.
I don't call people paybots for playing p2w..I mean the recent f2p mmos.
(It's a joke, Amanda. Google it before you ban me)
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre