Originally posted by Entropy14 I think certain add ons are wonderful , they help improve the game, but others really do wreck the game, One of the addons I despise the most is recount. Then all people care about is their DPS and forget to do things like CC, or decurse or stuns and many others things in a fight that help you win it that does not involve DPS .
If used correctly DPS meters are an invaluable tool for PvE progression.
Ive lead raids in MMOs with DPS meters and MMOs without DPS meters and it is a much better experience with DPS meters.
Originally posted by Hatefull Crap...full add-on support. More deadly boss mods, and hand holding crap. Interest just dropped to 0.
Yeah, we should trash the whole system because someone is going to develop damage meters and deadly boss mods! Who cares about all the other great mods players will invent that will help the gameplay experience!
(rollseyes)
This is one of the many reasons I'm excited about this game. But I guess some people will complain about anything.
Damage meters, aggro lists, gear score, and hand-holding raid frames change the way everybody plays the game, so that fellow players expect you to be using them. Eventually the effect of these mods creep into the actual game design, so that the game designers expect you to be using them.
As someone who played a healer in WoW I remember debuffs which could not be pulled off without some buff/debuff filter (around TBC/WOTLK, before this kind of thing was an in-game option) and bosses that had periodic big damage spikes meant for the 2nd highest guy on the aggro list (again, something which was not possible to account for without addons).
In short, it's not like you can opt out of these kinds of addons since they change the way people expect you to play the game (be it other players, or eventually even the developers). This is what makes some people claim to hate addons in general. They don't, they just hate the fact that at some point they will effectively need certain specific addons to be able to play competitively.
It amazes me how often i read, in comments and forums, people who complain about such things as Add-on's, game mechanics "holding thier hands" , and things of this nature. I see tons of complaints, yet when i play these games what i don't see is all these people who complain about how people play a game, teaching people how to play them better. Meaning they tend to be jerks without backing it up with actions that matter. Don't complain about others whom, pay to play thier own way versus your way, when you don't spend any time in game running guilds, clans, or organizations, that teach and train people how you prefer them to play.
There was a time when you were new and didn't know what to do, the difference is, you had community's to help you, others who would share info on where to go, what to do, how to achieve things, which in itself, was a different type of "Add-on" you seldom get in a game today.
because finding a new Player that has the same ethics and morals as Players years ago is getting tough. What is acceptable to young people is not acceptable to us older folk, simple stuff... like trash talk... as far as I am concerned it belongs in the FPS games, take it with you when you go, or ninja looting for example, people think people "deserve this" if they can pull it off... I call foul on that one, or hey what about the DPS guys running ahead and not listening to the Tank and Healer who are saying "stay with us, let's work as a team".
All of these examples are part of a whole of the problem and perhaps you can see THAT last one is a big part that fits WHY People don't help new Players anymore.... too many of them are out for themselves and they won't function as a member of a Team while in Group for a dungeon/Mission/Instance. They don't want to work together with others, nor are they there to enjoy the other Player's company and companionship... no... they are there for themselves. They race thru the dungeon/mission/instance as fast as they can, or the bale out without warning. Why help new Players learn when they are going to screw you one way or the other? (Same in society in general now, but we are talking MMOs, so I will stay on topic.)
THAT's why us older Players don't take the time to help the new Players anymore.The MMO Publishers are Targeting the wrong Player audience and the MMOs are getting Players that have no real desire to play the game for a cooperative multiplayer online game experience It's all about what they can get on their own. If the MMO Publishers targeted the Players that wanted to play a cooperative group online game the MMO genre would still be a lot like it was years ago except for the added rudeness society now thinks is acceptable. Not all Players are created the same, not all Players are well suited to play MMOs.
I really believe this is a huge part of what is wrong in the MMO genre today, as we Players have no real control over this part, we are at the mercy of the MMO Publishers and their Marketers. We can't fix this one.
That's why you have the complaints you do krondin. Submit them to your local MMO Publisher. MMOs are NOW in part what they are because the MMO Publishers failed to attract Players that WANT to work together like Players used to years ago. That's what happens when you go for the "largest customer base".
Not everything in the world that can be a Business should be a Business, and MMOs are one of many perfect examples of this.
..............
@Original Article, and about the Add-Ons... I never have like them, I see them a potential "hack" mods and always have (in other words a potential source of game cheat), but if the WildStar Devs keep a very close eye on this I am willing to adjust my particular playstyle and not come un-glued about these. LotRO has them and I have none for that game, but my rl friend has the Port Assistant one for Hunters and it's a great add-on with how many Ports Hunters have to use.... so I guess I can check these out and see how it goes. Old dog learning a new trick.
I whole heartedly agree with you. One of the main reasons I quit SWtOR (besides the obvious cash grabbing) is when I went into FP's and people were need for gear for their companions...and it was considered acceptable over people that actually needed it for their class.
As for the add-ons, anything that enables elitist attitudes can not be a good thing, which is one of the good things about SWtOR, their stance on add-ons. While i'm not to big on telling people l2p...on this I sure as heck would advice that.
Addons are the reason the genre is what it is now. Blizzard didn't create the things people hate. Players who wanted to create convenience for themselves did.
Who made questhelper?
Who made deadlybossmods?
Who made GEAR F'ing SCORE?
Who made ability timers?
Who made proc overlays?
Players. The handholding came from players. True enough Blizzard incorporated them into the official game, but only because once something reaches a certain usage threshold (aka enough of the playerbase is using it) that they need to intervene so people don't feel required to go out and download a 3rd party mod to just play the game.
All those handholding mods are now industry standards for MMO's, I wish they had never been created.
This! , i dont support addons but this is the painful truth, addons are player generated/created, blizzard said the ok cause this draw more traffic to the game since ppl who love addons start playing the game cause they enjoyed it more that way, win-win for client/company
Tormented echoes of a fallen Eden I longed for her beauty Yet from dust, she returned The dream, an enigma.... silent
Originally posted by Ukiah GW2 isn't perfect, but I haven't missed add-ons. I much prefer the 'you're dead because you suck' mechanic versus 'you suck because Recount says you do'.
People with that kind of attitude are probably the full bunker build walking into a zerker speed run. Sure you're alive. But you didn't contribute much to kill the boss.
Not that I like recount. Just don't like people who leech.
I'm a bit on the fence about it.
On one hand I don't want to keep updating to the latest and greatest mod/addon out there to stay competitive.
On the other hand. I do miss quality of life additions that the developers themselves haven't had time to add yet. Such as combat view (locking mouse to center screen).
I have no idea how addons can be "hand holding" in Wildstar when there is nothing they can modify about the combat of Wildstar to make it easier. It's a simple mechanic (telegraphs) that is completely all about reaction time/skill. There is no way like in WoW to modify that to "hold your hand" when it's already very cut and dry and the only thing to make it easier is... practice.
Originally posted by Ukiah GW2 isn't perfect, but I haven't missed add-ons. I much prefer the 'you're dead because you suck' mechanic versus 'you suck because Recount says you do'.
People with that kind of attitude are probably the full bunker build walking into a zerker speed run. Sure you're alive. But you didn't contribute much to kill the boss.
Not that I like recount. Just don't like people who leech.
I'm a bit on the fence about it.
On one hand I don't want to keep updating to the latest and greatest mod/addon out there to stay competitive.
On the other hand. I do miss quality of life additions that the developers themselves haven't had time to add yet. Such as combat view (locking mouse to center screen).
In Wildstar the Mod called "Deadlock" does just this. It makes Wildstar play and feel like Tera.
I have a love and hate relationship with mods. On one hand, the quality of life and sometimes even the dmg meters can be really handy. While, I really dislike when people are glued to their dmg meters and forget to move out of red, heal, off tank, decurse, CC, or anything helpful to the group because they want that top spot. A long time ago, when I ran a guild in WoW. I used the recount meters to not only look at peoples dps, but also if they were helping in other areas. Problem is, not everyone looks at it like this. A lot think that the dps/dmg are the only things that matter. These people are the ones that make me want no mods in game.
Originally posted by MrMelGibson Originally posted by AzureProwerOriginally posted by UkiahGW2 isn't perfect, but I haven't missed add-ons. I much prefer the 'you're dead because you suck' mechanic versus 'you suck because Recount says you do'.
People with that kind of attitude are probably the full bunker build walking into a zerker speed run. Sure you're alive. But you didn't contribute much to kill the boss.Not that I like recount. Just don't like people who leech.I'm a bit on the fence about it.On one hand I don't want to keep updating to the latest and greatest mod/addon out there to stay competitive. On the other hand. I do miss quality of life additions that the developers themselves haven't had time to add yet. Such as combat view (locking mouse to center screen). In Wildstar the Mod called "Deadlock" does just this. It makes Wildstar play and feel like Tera.
Was using it as an example. First thing that came to mind as there is no option in Guild Wars 2 and they disallow mods/addons.
Originally posted by bbqsauced For those of you who are interested in actually working on some addons for WildStar, I have a beginner's guide over at Hidden Arena.
I welcome addons! Especially a dmg meter like "Recount".
I want to be able to measure my performance against other player!
I wellcome the idea, but one of the worst uses would be to create kind of reccount, that is what is killing any game. People just do not care at all to play just to babling constantly that theirs is bigger then of any1 else in group.
Originally posted by RebelScum99 Originally posted by HatefullCrap...full add-on support. More deadly boss mods, and hand holding crap. Interest just dropped to 0.
Yeah, we should trash the whole system because someone is going to develop damage meters and deadly boss mods! Who cares about all the other great mods players will invent that will help the gameplay experience!
(rollseyes)
This is one of the many reasons I'm excited about this game. But I guess some people will complain about anything.
You should read the whole thread before you post. I said quality of life add-ons are just fine (imo) I don't like the add-ons that replace player skill. Seriously read all my posts before you answer. /Rollseyes /lol #kidsthesedays.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
It amazes me how often i read, in comments and forums, people who complain about such things as Add-on's, game mechanics "holding thier hands" , and things of this nature. I see tons of complaints, yet when i play these games what i don't see is all these people who complain about how people play a game, teaching people how to play them better. Meaning they tend to be jerks without backing it up with actions that matter. Don't complain about others whom, pay to play thier own way versus your way, when you don't spend any time in game running guilds, clans, or organizations, that teach and train people how you prefer them to play.
There was a time when you were new and didn't know what to do, the difference is, you had community's to help you, others who would share info on where to go, what to do, how to achieve things, which in itself, was a different type of "Add-on" you seldom get in a game today.
because finding a new Player that has the same ethics and morals as Players years ago is getting tough. What is acceptable to young people is not acceptable to us older folk, simple stuff... like trash talk... as far as I am concerned it belongs in the FPS games, take it with you when you go, or ninja looting for example, people think people "deserve this" if they can pull it off... I call foul on that one, or hey what about the DPS guys running ahead and not listening to the Tank and Healer who are saying "stay with us, let's work as a team".
All of these examples are part of a whole of the problem and perhaps you can see THAT last one is a big part that fits WHY People don't help new Players anymore.... too many of them are out for themselves and they won't function as a member of a Team while in Group for a dungeon/Mission/Instance. They don't want to work together with others, nor are they there to enjoy the other Player's company and companionship... no... they are there for themselves. They race thru the dungeon/mission/instance as fast as they can, or the bale out without warning. Why help new Players learn when they are going to screw you one way or the other? (Same in society in general now, but we are talking MMOs, so I will stay on topic.)
THAT's why us older Players don't take the time to help the new Players anymore.The MMO Publishers are Targeting the wrong Player audience and the MMOs are getting Players that have no real desire to play the game for a cooperative multiplayer online game experience It's all about what they can get on their own. If the MMO Publishers targeted the Players that wanted to play a cooperative group online game the MMO genre would still be a lot like it was years ago except for the added rudeness society now thinks is acceptable. Not all Players are created the same, not all Players are well suited to play MMOs.
I really believe this is a huge part of what is wrong in the MMO genre today, as we Players have no real control over this part, we are at the mercy of the MMO Publishers and their Marketers. We can't fix this one.
That's why you have the complaints you do krondin. Submit them to your local MMO Publisher. MMOs are NOW in part what they are because the MMO Publishers failed to attract Players that WANT to work together like Players used to years ago. That's what happens when you go for the "largest customer base".
Not everything in the world that can be a Business should be a Business, and MMOs are one of many perfect examples of this.
..............
@Original Article, and about the Add-Ons... I never have like them, I see them a potential "hack" mods and always have (in other words a potential source of game cheat), but if the WildStar Devs keep a very close eye on this I am willing to adjust my particular playstyle and not come un-glued about these. LotRO has them and I have none for that game, but my rl friend has the Port Assistant one for Hunters and it's a great add-on with how many Ports Hunters have to use.... so I guess I can check these out and see how it goes. Old dog learning a new trick.
/This I won't say that all older players are mature but a large majority are. Unfortunately, MMO companies (including Blizzard) do not want to have game that cater to older players because then they would not be "cool".
I do not like add-ons. Sure I use them but I think that it was Gearscore more than Cata that caused the major population decline in WOW. It is a shame to blame the add-on with the elitist snob mentality that it generated but I think that WOW would have held on to a lot more players without it. Although I am REALLY looking forward to Wildstar add-ons are not one of my reasons.
Originally posted by Hatefull Crap...full add-on support. More deadly boss mods, and hand holding crap. Interest just dropped to 0.
i have to agree here. mods make people dependent on them and eventually unable to play without them. when wow has a patch and the mods become unusable till they r updated shows this. instead of having a mod tell u when to move or when its coming, how about u just pay attention and learn how to really play. instead of forming a group that can rush through a dungeon because everyones dps is 40k min, how about u learn to play as a group and finish without the guarantee. i have more fun playing when i have to actually play.
and before people bitch about not having enough time to play a dungeon legit or i dont pay $15 a month for epic fail then maybe u should consider playing just console or single player games only.
i used to b one of those wow players that used mods for everything. i used to require players to have xx dps and xx gear score or achievements before even considering u as worthy of playin with me. but then i played other mmo's that had no mods. thats when i realized i had more fun without them. more of a challenge. people were friendlier too. now i would rather play a game without mods. without restrictions.
so im disappointed to see wildstar following the carebear route. i still will try this game as im excited about it. unfortunately they r trying so hard to duplicate wow's success that they r also duplicating many of its failures.
Well Said!
I would agree except for one single thing. This is an action combat mmo. Sure they can change around the UI n such, but it wont really matter in the long run. Besides, why should we be forced to use the UI they provide? This is a game meant to be fun, not be forced to use something you simply dislike.
In other words, stop trying to find tiny wrong things about it and worry about the bigger picture. Is the mmo worthwhile or not?
Originally posted by Hatefull Crap...full add-on support. More deadly boss mods, and hand holding crap. Interest just dropped to 0.
If you don't like add-ons and want to deal with base UI, fine by me. The rest of us want the ability to tweak our displays and make them more efficient, elegant, minimalist etc. There is so much goodness with the ability to mod the interface. I can’t see how people stay with base UI if better is out there. Not having mods would actually hurt the game in the long run.
Originally posted by Hatefull Crap...full add-on support. More deadly boss mods, and hand holding crap. Interest just dropped to 0.
Well, as far as I know Wildstar is cluttered with telegraphs all over the place even without any additional addon. So how much additional hand holding do you think will be there due to addons? Maybe this game wasn't for you from the start?
And regarding all concerns to the abuse of damage meters: as long as they are not integrated in the game from the start, I'm fine with them. If you don't wanna use them, simply let it be
If you encounter assholes who have nothing else to do than to post their random acts of uberness without even being asked for: just literally ignore them for the future. And if the ignore list is limited and you run out of space, maybe there is a handy addon you can use to expand it (actually there is or at least was a WoW addon doing exactly this)
At the end of the day it's what you make out of it. Addons are powerful tools which can tailor the game to your needs. If you abuse them though, don't blame the addons. The real problem is most of the time right in front of your computer monitor ....
Originally posted by Hatefull Crap...full add-on support. More deadly boss mods, and hand holding crap. Interest just dropped to 0.
hand holding should die a horrible death, but I welcome full mod support with open arms on every mmo.
I totally agree, love addons.
Originally posted by laokoko "if you want to be a game designer, you should sell your house and fund your game. Since if you won't even fund your own game, no one will".
If you're going to avoid a game just because it can run addons, I wouldn't want you as part of the game's community. So don't let the door hit you on the way out!
Originally posted by popezaphod If you're going to avoid a game just because it can run addons, I wouldn't want you as part of the game's community. So don't let the door hit you on the way out!
I think some people just want to find a reason to hate on Wildstar.
UI enhancement add-ons are fine. I like making my interface look nice and how I want it to. Hand holding add-ons such as deadly boss mods are not fine.
Originally posted by Sinnocent UI enhancement add-ons are fine. I like making my interface look nice and how I want it to. Hand holding add-ons such as deadly boss mods are not fine.
So no DBM mod, just watch the youtube vid to know the fight, thats better right?
Originally posted by laokoko "if you want to be a game designer, you should sell your house and fund your game. Since if you won't even fund your own game, no one will".
Comments
Ive lead raids in MMOs with DPS meters and MMOs without DPS meters and it is a much better experience with DPS meters.
Yeah, we should trash the whole system because someone is going to develop damage meters and deadly boss mods! Who cares about all the other great mods players will invent that will help the gameplay experience!
(rollseyes)
This is one of the many reasons I'm excited about this game. But I guess some people will complain about anything.
Damage meters, aggro lists, gear score, and hand-holding raid frames change the way everybody plays the game, so that fellow players expect you to be using them. Eventually the effect of these mods creep into the actual game design, so that the game designers expect you to be using them.
As someone who played a healer in WoW I remember debuffs which could not be pulled off without some buff/debuff filter (around TBC/WOTLK, before this kind of thing was an in-game option) and bosses that had periodic big damage spikes meant for the 2nd highest guy on the aggro list (again, something which was not possible to account for without addons).
In short, it's not like you can opt out of these kinds of addons since they change the way people expect you to play the game (be it other players, or eventually even the developers). This is what makes some people claim to hate addons in general. They don't, they just hate the fact that at some point they will effectively need certain specific addons to be able to play competitively.
I whole heartedly agree with you. One of the main reasons I quit SWtOR (besides the obvious cash grabbing) is when I went into FP's and people were need for gear for their companions...and it was considered acceptable over people that actually needed it for their class.
As for the add-ons, anything that enables elitist attitudes can not be a good thing, which is one of the good things about SWtOR, their stance on add-ons. While i'm not to big on telling people l2p...on this I sure as heck would advice that.
This! , i dont support addons but this is the painful truth, addons are player generated/created, blizzard said the ok cause this draw more traffic to the game since ppl who love addons start playing the game cause they enjoyed it more that way, win-win for client/company
Tormented echoes of a fallen Eden
I longed for her beauty
Yet from dust, she returned
The dream, an enigma.... silent
People with that kind of attitude are probably the full bunker build walking into a zerker speed run. Sure you're alive. But you didn't contribute much to kill the boss.
Not that I like recount. Just don't like people who leech.
I'm a bit on the fence about it.
On one hand I don't want to keep updating to the latest and greatest mod/addon out there to stay competitive.
On the other hand. I do miss quality of life additions that the developers themselves haven't had time to add yet. Such as combat view (locking mouse to center screen).
-Azure Prower
http://www.youtube.com/AzurePrower
In Wildstar the Mod called "Deadlock" does just this. It makes Wildstar play and feel like Tera.
I have a love and hate relationship with mods. On one hand, the quality of life and sometimes even the dmg meters can be really handy. While, I really dislike when people are glued to their dmg meters and forget to move out of red, heal, off tank, decurse, CC, or anything helpful to the group because they want that top spot. A long time ago, when I ran a guild in WoW. I used the recount meters to not only look at peoples dps, but also if they were helping in other areas. Problem is, not everyone looks at it like this. A lot think that the dps/dmg are the only things that matter. These people are the ones that make me want no mods in game.
In Wildstar the Mod called "Deadlock" does just this. It makes Wildstar play and feel like Tera.
Was using it as an example. First thing that came to mind as there is no option in Guild Wars 2 and they disallow mods/addons.
But good to know Wildstar has this feature.
-Azure Prower
http://www.youtube.com/AzurePrower
Hey! Thank you for this ^^
No bitchers.
I wellcome the idea, but one of the worst uses would be to create kind of reccount, that is what is killing any game. People just do not care at all to play just to babling constantly that theirs is bigger then of any1 else in group.
(rollseyes)
This is one of the many reasons I'm excited about this game. But I guess some people will complain about anything.
You should read the whole thread before you post. I said quality of life add-ons are just fine (imo) I don't like the add-ons that replace player skill. Seriously read all my posts before you answer. /Rollseyes /lol #kidsthesedays.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
/This I won't say that all older players are mature but a large majority are. Unfortunately, MMO companies (including Blizzard) do not want to have game that cater to older players because then they would not be "cool".
I do not like add-ons. Sure I use them but I think that it was Gearscore more than Cata that caused the major population decline in WOW. It is a shame to blame the add-on with the elitist snob mentality that it generated but I think that WOW would have held on to a lot more players without it. Although I am REALLY looking forward to Wildstar add-ons are not one of my reasons.
I would agree except for one single thing. This is an action combat mmo. Sure they can change around the UI n such, but it wont really matter in the long run. Besides, why should we be forced to use the UI they provide? This is a game meant to be fun, not be forced to use something you simply dislike.
In other words, stop trying to find tiny wrong things about it and worry about the bigger picture. Is the mmo worthwhile or not?
If you don't like add-ons and want to deal with base UI, fine by me. The rest of us want the ability to tweak our displays and make them more efficient, elegant, minimalist etc. There is so much goodness with the ability to mod the interface. I can’t see how people stay with base UI if better is out there. Not having mods would actually hurt the game in the long run.
Well, as far as I know Wildstar is cluttered with telegraphs all over the place even without any additional addon. So how much additional hand holding do you think will be there due to addons? Maybe this game wasn't for you from the start?
And regarding all concerns to the abuse of damage meters: as long as they are not integrated in the game from the start, I'm fine with them. If you don't wanna use them, simply let it be
If you encounter assholes who have nothing else to do than to post their random acts of uberness without even being asked for: just literally ignore them for the future. And if the ignore list is limited and you run out of space, maybe there is a handy addon you can use to expand it (actually there is or at least was a WoW addon doing exactly this)
At the end of the day it's what you make out of it. Addons are powerful tools which can tailor the game to your needs. If you abuse them though, don't blame the addons. The real problem is most of the time right in front of your computer monitor ....
hand holding should die a horrible death, but I welcome full mod support with open arms on every mmo.
I totally agree, love addons.
Originally posted by laokoko
"if you want to be a game designer, you should sell your house and fund your game. Since if you won't even fund your own game, no one will".
I think some people just want to find a reason to hate on Wildstar.
So no DBM mod, just watch the youtube vid to know the fight, thats better right?
Originally posted by laokoko
"if you want to be a game designer, you should sell your house and fund your game. Since if you won't even fund your own game, no one will".