A lot of people are getting way off topic. Arguing about whether a lot of players have an excessive sense of entitlement in many F2P games is not the same thing as arguing whether there should be F2P games, or whether Freemium should be considered the same thing as F2P. It's not about whether a given model is good or bad. It's about whether a subset of players engage in a specific type of bad behavior within those games.
Since someone brought in the fact that lots of industries offer free stuff, let's look at that. With the McDonald's example of a free Big Mac, what do we think of the people who come into the store and say they don't like Big Macs, but they would like some McNuggets, and since the Big Macs were getting given away for free anyway, why not give them the McNuggets free too? When told they won't be getting the McNuggets free, they then proceed to hang out in the store for hours whining to anyone who will listen that McDonald's is run by greedy jerks because they won't give out free McNuggets in addition to the free Big Macs.
When asked what McDonald's should charge for, since somewhere deep down in their pea-brains they understand the company does have to make money, one of them says, "I don't like Diet Coke. They should charge for that." The next says, "No, I like Diet Coke, that should be free. They should charge for the apple pie, I hate apple pie." Synthesize all of their opinions and try to arrive at a universal rule, the only one you could come up with would be "Give away what people want for free, only charge for what people don't want." That is not a viable business plan.
So long story short, yes, many free players act too entitled. That isn't a problem with the games, or the business model, they are probably the same worthless jerks who act obnoxious and entitled in every aspect of their lives.
Hit it right on the nailhead.
Actually, he confirms that fairness study -- monkey A is upset that monkey B has something he doesn't.
So it's not a sense of entitlement, it's about what is perceived as being fair.
The moral judgement of "entitlement" is confirmation bias, when objectively it's about perceived fairness.
Originally posted by AlBQuirky May I ask how a player simply being "in game" benefits the game?Do many F2P players group with others? Do they interact with those playing in some significant way? While I am sure there are some freeloading F2P players that DO group and interact with others, possibly doing PvP if it is in the game, maybe even doing some crafting and giving a game world an economy, I am kind of fuzzy as to how, exactly, these non-paying players add to the content of other players.If "population" is all you can come up with, would it not be easier and/or cheaper to just fill the world with NPCs? Sometimes, those NPCs can even chat or dialogue, along with quests
pvp.LoL have tons of free players. They are content for paid ones.
What else is there to do in LoL? You use a TOTALLY PvP game (not an MMO) for illustration. OK. World of Tanks would have been a better, albeit less successful MMO example.
So... OTHER than PvP, what is there? In a F2P MMO that has no PvP (is there such a game?), what "content" do freeloaders provide? Otherwise, all "content" freeloaders provide can be more easily and cheaply provided with NPCs, right?
Originally posted by iridescence
Originally posted by AlBQuirky Do many F2P players group with others? Do they interact with those playing in some significant way?While I am sure there are some freeloading F2P players that DO group and interact with others, possibly doing PvP if it is in the game, maybe even doing some crafting and giving a game world an economy, I am kind of fuzzy as to how, exactly, these non-paying players add to the content of other players.If "population" is all you can come up with, would it not be easier and/or cheaper to just fill the world with NPCs? Sometimes, those NPCs can even chat or dialogue, along with quests
Well there is the "sheep effect" with a lot of people if they see a lot of people around them playing, even if they're not interacting at all with those people, they think the game must be good and if they hardly run into anyone else they think it must suck just on that basis.I personally am totally unaffected by this. I'll play an empty game if it's fun (and soloable) and scoff at a full game if the game play sucks but you just have to look at some of the posts in this forum to see that some people haven't really matured beyond the "want to be in the in crowd in middle school" phase. I guess having a lot of F2P players could help rope in those types.
"The Sheep Affect." I had forgotten about that. Good point.
Reminds me of the comedians that will stand outside and just look up in the sky to see who else will also look up with them. Or people who stand at the end of a long line not even knowing what the line is for
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
On and on about whales, they are not the only ones who fund F2P games. Small amounts from many players will be a big source of revenue.
This is like a tax system where F2P lovers would have you believe only the rich pay. Unfortunately it is not like that, there are many small contributors as well.
On and on about whales, they are not the only ones who fund F2P games. Small amounts from many players will be a big source of revenue.
This is like a tax system where F2P lovers would have you believe only the rich pay. Unfortunately it is not like that, there are many small contributors as well.
But "whales" get the perks.
A F2P game I play off and on, if you "contribute" $300+ a year you are put in different tiers of "service", with those paying $1000+/year getting 24/7 "on call" customer service. Those into $5000+/yr game play, let's just say they're VIPs with the devs.
Yeah, whales contribute to F2P games like no other "contributions" (i.e., microtransactions) can. And it highlights that the devs freely know and understand what F2P games truly are about -- no different than what EA is doing to Battlefield with it's DMA mini-expansions in tiers.
All I am saying is the little guy is paying as well and lots of small contributions add up to a decent revenue stream. Certainly though I can see that as you say F2P MMOs are catering to those with money. All the more reason to steer clear of them.
On and on about whales, they are not the only ones who fund F2P games. Small amounts from many players will be a big source of revenue.
This is like a tax system where F2P lovers would have you believe only the rich pay. Unfortunately it is not like that, there are many small contributors as well.
Originally posted by Scot All I am saying is the little guy is paying as well and lots of small contributions add up to a decent revenue stream. Certainly though I can see that as you say F2P MMOs are catering to those with money. All the more reason to steer clear of them.
Not if you share a preference with the paying players, and the game is fun.
Is there a reason why i should not play a fun (to me) free game?
Actually, he confirms that fairness study -- monkey A is upset that monkey B has something he doesn't.
So it's not a sense of entitlement, it's about what is perceived as being fair.
The moral judgement of "entitlement" is confirmation bias, when objectively it's about perceived fairness.
Really? You're going to use "objectively" and "perceived" as if they go together? Which word is it you don't understand?
This thread has nothing to do with fairness. As I said before, fairness would only be the issue at hand if some free players were being treated differently from other free players, which is not a situation being discussed here. Letting individual perception into the equation moves us away from objectivity and facts into the realm of feelings and nonsense.
What is being discussed here is exactly a sense of entitlement, a word which you appear to be trying to say describes something which doesn't exist. When someone who pays absolutely nothing feels like he "deserves" some certain level of service, and becomes insulting and whiny when he doesn't get it, he is acting like an entitled brat. Whether he honestly believes it is "unfair" that he isn't getting what he wants is completely irrelevant. The label of "entitled" describes an expressed attitude, regardless of what internal justifications someone manufactures for having that attitude.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
What else is there to do in LoL? You use a TOTALLY PvP game (not an MMO) for illustration. OK. World of Tanks would have been a better, albeit less successful MMO example.
So... OTHER than PvP, what is there? In a F2P MMO that has no PvP (is there such a game?), what "content" do freeloaders provide? Otherwise, all "content" freeloaders provide can be more easily and cheaply provided with NPCs, right?
Why should there be anything other than pvp? Pvp is a pretty common feature in MMOs. Many (or even most) have it. Some games (as you pointed out LoL, WoT, and i would add PS2) are nothing but pvp.
And how is NPCs cheaper? How much does it cost to develop and operate a NPC that will pass the turing test in a MMO?
And how about free players can be people to group with? People to show off to? People in your guild? People you can chat with (i don't play games to social, but there are those who do)?
Actually, he confirms that fairness study -- monkey A is upset that monkey B has something he doesn't.
So it's not a sense of entitlement, it's about what is perceived as being fair.
The moral judgement of "entitlement" is confirmation bias, when objectively it's about perceived fairness.
Really? You're going to use "objectively" and "perceived" as if they go together? Which word is it you don't understand?
This thread has nothing to do with fairness. As I said before, fairness would only be the issue at hand if some free players were being treated differently from other free players, which is not a situation being discussed here. Letting individual perception into the equation moves us away from objectivity and facts into the realm of feelings and nonsense.
What is being discussed here is exactly a sense of entitlement, a word which you appear to be trying to say describes something which doesn't exist. When someone who pays absolutely nothing feels like he "deserves" some certain level of service, and becomes insulting and whiny when he doesn't get it, he is acting like an entitled brat. Whether he honestly believes it is "unfair" that he isn't getting what he wants is completely irrelevant. The label of "entitled" describes an expressed attitude, regardless of what internal justifications someone manufactures for having that attitude.
I understand both, but the word "entitlement" is a moral and political term loaded with negativity, and how it's used (just look at how you stated it). Folks know this, and use it like a lead pipe, trying to divide and conquer. When really it's to hide the obvious -- people (let alone mammals) recognize unfairness *and* differences, and don't like it.
Thread has everything to do with fairness, since the gripe is that monkey A sees monkey B with something that's different and feels it's unfair.
The rest of the jawing is called, "whitewash".
This is seen now for over a year with the LFR arguments with normal/heroic raiders. They complain the LFR raiders got free stuff, yet they were in LFR themselves (screaming and more), doing the exact thing...gearing up. BUT, they don't want others to do the same thing, they want to disqualify it to others to keep the appearances they are more superior (no grapes for you I want both cucumber and grapes for MEMEME). Every excuse in the book is thrown at it as an justification (even "it's killing WoW!!!"), when LFR has nothing to do with their progression...they're just now not the only game in town.
Originally posted by AG-Vuk Folks , it's pretty simple. Your concept of free differs from other peoples. So , a companies concept of what constitutes free, will differ for any individuals. The really issue is, there isn't a firm definition as a rule, just a concept.
Everyone understands what "Free To Play" means. Anyone who doesn't learns very quickly. It means some portion of the game is free, and some portion of the game isn't. Players can indeed play F2P games without spending any money. Players can also play F2P games while spending money and receive more of the game's content. It's not rocket appliances.
Obviously we don't , otherwise we wouldn't have this thread. Yes companies need to make money so they define free in a way that offers them a way to make money. That seems to clash with others perception of what free really means. I'm not naive and understand that nothing is free , ever. There is always some cost somewhere, somehow. I fault people perception and definition as the true problem. The endless threads about how F2P isn't up to the that particular persons perception of how it should be, are just childish.
Really? You're going to use "objectively" and "perceived" as if they go together? Which word is it you don't understand?
This thread has nothing to do with fairness. As I said before, fairness would only be the issue at hand if some free players were being treated differently from other free players, which is not a situation being discussed here. Letting individual perception into the equation moves us away from objectivity and facts into the realm of feelings and nonsense.
What is being discussed here is exactly a sense of entitlement, a word which you appear to be trying to say describes something which doesn't exist. When someone who pays absolutely nothing feels like he "deserves" some certain level of service, and becomes insulting and whiny when he doesn't get it, he is acting like an entitled brat. Whether he honestly believes it is "unfair" that he isn't getting what he wants is completely irrelevant. The label of "entitled" describes an expressed attitude, regardless of what internal justifications someone manufactures for having that attitude.
I understand both, but the word "entitlement" is a moral and political term loaded with negativity, and how it's used (just look at how you stated it). Folks know this, and use it like a lead pipe, trying to divide and conquer. When really it's to hide the obvious -- people (let alone mammals) recognize unfairness *and* differences, and don't like it.
Thread has everything to do with fairness, since the gripe is that monkey A sees monkey B with something that's different and feels it's unfair.
The rest of the jawing is called, "whitewash".
First, "perceived unfairness" =/= actual unfairness. Perception is not reality. Whether someone perceives unfairness is only relevant if what they are perceiving actually is unfair. If it is not, then their perception of unfairness is the result of their filtering reality through their excessive sense of entitlement, which is what this thread is about.
I pity anyone who can argue with a straight face that *any* level of content provided for free is somehow insufficient to be considered "fair." The only reasonable expressed response to receiving something for nothing is appreciation, even if you don't actually like it. Anything else is just bad form.
I omitted your stuff about raiders and gear since it isn't really germane to the topic of whether people who spend no money on a game act excessively entitled.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Obviously we don't , otherwise we wouldn't have this thread.
What does knowing what f2p means have to do with this thread? Don't tell me you think people get information from internet forums, as opposed to just enjoy forum pvp.
So... OTHER than PvP, what is there? In a F2P MMO that has no PvP (is there such a game?), what "content" do freeloaders provide? Otherwise, all "content" freeloaders provide can be more easily and cheaply provided with NPCs, right?
Free players provide eyes for the whales to show off to with their cosmetic items, providing them with a reason to buy more cosmetic items. A lot of people in MMOs are there to show off, as pathetic as I personally think that is.
Free players provide eyes for the whales to show off to with their cosmetic items, providing them with a reason to buy more cosmetic items. A lot of people in MMOs are there to show off, as pathetic as I personally think that is.
Any other questions?
Is that really the case? Mind boggling. The only time I've ever purchased a cosmetic item is when *I* wanted to look at it. And it's always with the "free" points accrued from having a subscription.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
So... OTHER than PvP, what is there? In a F2P MMO that has no PvP (is there such a game?), what "content" do freeloaders provide? Otherwise, all "content" freeloaders provide can be more easily and cheaply provided with NPCs, right?
Free players provide eyes for the whales to show off to with their cosmetic items, providing them with a reason to buy more cosmetic items. A lot of people in MMOs are there to show off, as pathetic as I personally think that is.
Any other questions?
It also seems kind of pathetic to be worried about other players and any cosmetic item they may buy and what they do with it.
Free players provide eyes for the whales to show off to with their cosmetic items, providing them with a reason to buy more cosmetic items. A lot of people in MMOs are there to show off, as pathetic as I personally think that is.
Any other questions?
Is that really the case? Mind boggling. The only time I've ever purchased a cosmetic item is when *I* wanted to look at it. And it's always with the "free" points accrued from having a subscription.
You are obviously not a whale. And how would you know it is not the case that they want to spend and show off?
In fact, the prevalent of gearscore is indirect evidence that people want to show off. There is even scientific research showing that status is worth money to some (but not necessarily all) people.
So... OTHER than PvP, what is there? In a F2P MMO that has no PvP (is there such a game?), what "content" do freeloaders provide? Otherwise, all "content" freeloaders provide can be more easily and cheaply provided with NPCs, right?
Free players provide eyes for the whales to show off to with their cosmetic items, providing them with a reason to buy more cosmetic items. A lot of people in MMOs are there to show off, as pathetic as I personally think that is.
Any other questions?
Oh, I have one!
Do they actually think I am impressed by their collection of 147 cosmetic mini-pets?
(this is humor folks, no offense intended or implied)
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
So... OTHER than PvP, what is there? In a F2P MMO that has no PvP (is there such a game?), what "content" do freeloaders provide? Otherwise, all "content" freeloaders provide can be more easily and cheaply provided with NPCs, right?
Free players provide eyes for the whales to show off to with their cosmetic items, providing them with a reason to buy more cosmetic items. A lot of people in MMOs are there to show off, as pathetic as I personally think that is.
Any other questions?
Cosmetic? F2P is also know for P2P, and what they buy isn't cosmetic. ^-^
Remember in that MuD I played, they'd fork over $5000 for an axe...I kid you not. Text, no graphics, $5000 axe. Woah to anyone who didn't remember binding when logging on for the day!
Free players provide eyes for the whales to show off to with their cosmetic items, providing them with a reason to buy more cosmetic items. A lot of people in MMOs are there to show off, as pathetic as I personally think that is.
Any other questions?
Is that really the case? Mind boggling. The only time I've ever purchased a cosmetic item is when *I* wanted to look at it. And it's always with the "free" points accrued from having a subscription.
Yup, that's really the case. Personally, I ignore cosmetic items entirely, I don't even wear social armor and I don't care what my character looks like, the armor and weapons are there to do a job, not to look nice, but a lot of people seem to get off on showing off their stuff. That's one of the many jobs that F2P players providefor the whales who want someone to waggle their "pretty" e-peen at.
So... OTHER than PvP, what is there? In a F2P MMO that has no PvP (is there such a game?), what "content" do freeloaders provide? Otherwise, all "content" freeloaders provide can be more easily and cheaply provided with NPCs, right?
Free players provide eyes for the whales to show off to with their cosmetic items, providing them with a reason to buy more cosmetic items. A lot of people in MMOs are there to show off, as pathetic as I personally think that is.
Any other questions?
It also seems kind of pathetic to be worried about other players and any cosmetic item they may buy and what they do with it.
I agree with you completely, it doesn't mean lots of people don't do it. Heck, when I suggest that it's pretty pathetic to use an in-game house to show off your trophies, lots of people get mad at me. It's still pathetic though.
So... OTHER than PvP, what is there? In a F2P MMO that has no PvP (is there such a game?), what "content" do freeloaders provide? Otherwise, all "content" freeloaders provide can be more easily and cheaply provided with NPCs, right?
Free players provide eyes for the whales to show off to with their cosmetic items, providing them with a reason to buy more cosmetic items. A lot of people in MMOs are there to show off, as pathetic as I personally think that is.
Any other questions?
Oh, I have one!
Do they actually think I am impressed by their collection of 147 cosmetic mini-pets?
(this is humor folks, no offense intended or implied)
It doesn't matter what you're impressed with, I'm not impressed either, but the whales want someone to show off to, whether they're impressed or not. The same is true in all MMOs, that's why they have so many cosmetic items.
So... OTHER than PvP, what is there? In a F2P MMO that has no PvP (is there such a game?), what "content" do freeloaders provide? Otherwise, all "content" freeloaders provide can be more easily and cheaply provided with NPCs, right?
Free players provide eyes for the whales to show off to with their cosmetic items, providing them with a reason to buy more cosmetic items. A lot of people in MMOs are there to show off, as pathetic as I personally think that is.
Any other questions?
Cosmetic? F2P is also know for P2P, and what they buy isn't cosmetic. ^-^
Remember in that MuD I played, they'd fork over $5000 for an axe...I kid you not. Text, no graphics, $5000 axe. Woah to anyone who didn't remember binding when logging on for the day!
They've apparently got the money to spend, what difference does it make? Why are you so concerned with what other people do with their own money?
Yup, that's really the case. Personally, I ignore cosmetic items entirely, I don't even wear social armor and I don't care what my character looks like, the armor and weapons are there to do a job, not to look nice, but a lot of people seem to get off on showing off their stuff. That's one of the many jobs that F2P players providefor the whales who want someone to waggle their "pretty" e-peen at.
I'm a bit of an odd duck. I make decisions about "who" my character is, then play him accordingly, right down to the outfit he wears, but my "RP" ends there instead of extending into ridiculous /emote parties in taverns/cantinas. I'm still waiting for a MMO that actually responds to your in game choices to a great enough extent that you can feel like it even matters who you decide your character is. So far the only one that has even tried in any sense is TOR. Your mileage may vary on how well it succeeded. I would say fairly well inside the class stories, not at all outside them.
But that's all beside the point. To bring things back to the topic, the perception of whales that other people seeing their gear matters somehow may arguably be a "service" free players provide, but I think it would be a stretch to argue that it's an important enough service to entitle them to complain about the level of free content in a game being insufficient. For every whiny, entitled free player, there are plenty of others just playing the game and not complaining on the internet to provide the gawker value to whales. Every one of the type of people who inspired this thread could stop playing right now, and it's likely that not one game would actually shut down or make any less money because of it.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Comments
Actually, he confirms that fairness study -- monkey A is upset that monkey B has something he doesn't.
So it's not a sense of entitlement, it's about what is perceived as being fair.
The moral judgement of "entitlement" is confirmation bias, when objectively it's about perceived fairness.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
So... OTHER than PvP, what is there? In a F2P MMO that has no PvP (is there such a game?), what "content" do freeloaders provide? Otherwise, all "content" freeloaders provide can be more easily and cheaply provided with NPCs, right?
"The Sheep Affect." I had forgotten about that. Good point.Reminds me of the comedians that will stand outside and just look up in the sky to see who else will also look up with them. Or people who stand at the end of a long line not even knowing what the line is for
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
On and on about whales, they are not the only ones who fund F2P games. Small amounts from many players will be a big source of revenue.
This is like a tax system where F2P lovers would have you believe only the rich pay. Unfortunately it is not like that, there are many small contributors as well.
But "whales" get the perks.
A F2P game I play off and on, if you "contribute" $300+ a year you are put in different tiers of "service", with those paying $1000+/year getting 24/7 "on call" customer service. Those into $5000+/yr game play, let's just say they're VIPs with the devs.
Yeah, whales contribute to F2P games like no other "contributions" (i.e., microtransactions) can. And it highlights that the devs freely know and understand what F2P games truly are about -- no different than what EA is doing to Battlefield with it's DMA mini-expansions in tiers.
Money talks, BS walks.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
But most don't. And i am sure i don't.
Not if you share a preference with the paying players, and the game is fun.
Is there a reason why i should not play a fun (to me) free game?
Really? You're going to use "objectively" and "perceived" as if they go together? Which word is it you don't understand?
This thread has nothing to do with fairness. As I said before, fairness would only be the issue at hand if some free players were being treated differently from other free players, which is not a situation being discussed here. Letting individual perception into the equation moves us away from objectivity and facts into the realm of feelings and nonsense.
What is being discussed here is exactly a sense of entitlement, a word which you appear to be trying to say describes something which doesn't exist. When someone who pays absolutely nothing feels like he "deserves" some certain level of service, and becomes insulting and whiny when he doesn't get it, he is acting like an entitled brat. Whether he honestly believes it is "unfair" that he isn't getting what he wants is completely irrelevant. The label of "entitled" describes an expressed attitude, regardless of what internal justifications someone manufactures for having that attitude.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Why should there be anything other than pvp? Pvp is a pretty common feature in MMOs. Many (or even most) have it. Some games (as you pointed out LoL, WoT, and i would add PS2) are nothing but pvp.
And how is NPCs cheaper? How much does it cost to develop and operate a NPC that will pass the turing test in a MMO?
And how about free players can be people to group with? People to show off to? People in your guild? People you can chat with (i don't play games to social, but there are those who do)?
I understand both, but the word "entitlement" is a moral and political term loaded with negativity, and how it's used (just look at how you stated it). Folks know this, and use it like a lead pipe, trying to divide and conquer. When really it's to hide the obvious -- people (let alone mammals) recognize unfairness *and* differences, and don't like it.
Thread has everything to do with fairness, since the gripe is that monkey A sees monkey B with something that's different and feels it's unfair.
The rest of the jawing is called, "whitewash".
This is seen now for over a year with the LFR arguments with normal/heroic raiders. They complain the LFR raiders got free stuff, yet they were in LFR themselves (screaming and more), doing the exact thing...gearing up. BUT, they don't want others to do the same thing, they want to disqualify it to others to keep the appearances they are more superior (no grapes for you I want both cucumber and grapes for MEMEME). Every excuse in the book is thrown at it as an justification (even "it's killing WoW!!!"), when LFR has nothing to do with their progression...they're just now not the only game in town.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Obviously we don't , otherwise we wouldn't have this thread. Yes companies need to make money so they define free in a way that offers them a way to make money. That seems to clash with others perception of what free really means. I'm not naive and understand that nothing is free , ever. There is always some cost somewhere, somehow. I fault people perception and definition as the true problem. The endless threads about how F2P isn't up to the that particular persons perception of how it should be, are just childish.
First, "perceived unfairness" =/= actual unfairness. Perception is not reality. Whether someone perceives unfairness is only relevant if what they are perceiving actually is unfair. If it is not, then their perception of unfairness is the result of their filtering reality through their excessive sense of entitlement, which is what this thread is about.
I pity anyone who can argue with a straight face that *any* level of content provided for free is somehow insufficient to be considered "fair." The only reasonable expressed response to receiving something for nothing is appreciation, even if you don't actually like it. Anything else is just bad form.
I omitted your stuff about raiders and gear since it isn't really germane to the topic of whether people who spend no money on a game act excessively entitled.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
What does knowing what f2p means have to do with this thread? Don't tell me you think people get information from internet forums, as opposed to just enjoy forum pvp.
Free players provide eyes for the whales to show off to with their cosmetic items, providing them with a reason to buy more cosmetic items. A lot of people in MMOs are there to show off, as pathetic as I personally think that is.
Any other questions?
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
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Is that really the case? Mind boggling. The only time I've ever purchased a cosmetic item is when *I* wanted to look at it. And it's always with the "free" points accrued from having a subscription.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
It also seems kind of pathetic to be worried about other players and any cosmetic item they may buy and what they do with it.
The answer is In ALL mmo's these days.... Doesn't matter if it's f2p or no.
You are obviously not a whale. And how would you know it is not the case that they want to spend and show off?
In fact, the prevalent of gearscore is indirect evidence that people want to show off. There is even scientific research showing that status is worth money to some (but not necessarily all) people.
Oh, I have one!
Do they actually think I am impressed by their collection of 147 cosmetic mini-pets?
(this is humor folks, no offense intended or implied)
Cosmetic? F2P is also know for P2P, and what they buy isn't cosmetic. ^-^
Remember in that MuD I played, they'd fork over $5000 for an axe...I kid you not. Text, no graphics, $5000 axe. Woah to anyone who didn't remember binding when logging on for the day!
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Yup, that's really the case. Personally, I ignore cosmetic items entirely, I don't even wear social armor and I don't care what my character looks like, the armor and weapons are there to do a job, not to look nice, but a lot of people seem to get off on showing off their stuff. That's one of the many jobs that F2P players providefor the whales who want someone to waggle their "pretty" e-peen at.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
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I agree with you completely, it doesn't mean lots of people don't do it. Heck, when I suggest that it's pretty pathetic to use an in-game house to show off your trophies, lots of people get mad at me. It's still pathetic though.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
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It doesn't matter what you're impressed with, I'm not impressed either, but the whales want someone to show off to, whether they're impressed or not. The same is true in all MMOs, that's why they have so many cosmetic items.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
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They've apparently got the money to spend, what difference does it make? Why are you so concerned with what other people do with their own money?
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
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I'm a bit of an odd duck. I make decisions about "who" my character is, then play him accordingly, right down to the outfit he wears, but my "RP" ends there instead of extending into ridiculous /emote parties in taverns/cantinas. I'm still waiting for a MMO that actually responds to your in game choices to a great enough extent that you can feel like it even matters who you decide your character is. So far the only one that has even tried in any sense is TOR. Your mileage may vary on how well it succeeded. I would say fairly well inside the class stories, not at all outside them.
But that's all beside the point. To bring things back to the topic, the perception of whales that other people seeing their gear matters somehow may arguably be a "service" free players provide, but I think it would be a stretch to argue that it's an important enough service to entitle them to complain about the level of free content in a game being insufficient. For every whiny, entitled free player, there are plenty of others just playing the game and not complaining on the internet to provide the gawker value to whales. Every one of the type of people who inspired this thread could stop playing right now, and it's likely that not one game would actually shut down or make any less money because of it.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.