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Overestimate IP?
Shoko_Lied
Member UncommonPosts: 2,193
Most companies go with a single payment model. Either B2P, P2P, or Cash shop. ESO is seriously combining all three of these payment models into this game... What makes ESO so much more special than every other MMORPG out there that they felt that making it the most expensive MMORPG to play ever not a dou**** penny pinching idea?
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My bet is that they will soon see that they indeed overstimate their IP and that in 2014, a title doesnt get carried by the history of its setting anymore. I do agree to an extend when people say gameplay>graphics, but IP>gameplay does never apply.
They could have learned that from Lotro, which comes with background and setting more rich and superior than anything, but as well as ESO it failed in execution as a game and therefore went down the drain. Fans of the IP wanted "middle earth online" and got a themepark.
What Bethesda/Zenimax delivers is another generic post-WoW era clone with 2005 standards and flaws that should have left the quality assurance screaming... and no IP is going to help that game. Fans of the IP wanted "Tamriel online" and will get a themepark -again.
Too bad, as i LOVE Oblivion and Skyrim.
First: no reason it should be f2p. In fact I suspect it won't be. Zenimax will have target sales and sub numbers and if they don't hit them they will probably just reduce the headcount - so less new content. (Don't get me wrong I believe that a sub is a bad decision.)
I'm not sure a lot of people get this, but here is my thoughts. Whenever I play Skyrim, or any of the ES games, I always wished I could play them with friends. I have even told friends and family, I would pay for this feature! Now, here is a chance to do just that. I'm not sure why everyone wants something for free, or thinks they should get a certain something for nothing.
Also, why do you believe it is a waste of the title when it is an exceptional way to bring fans together?
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
this
You are right. Frankly it is sooo boring I can't stand to play it. I think I got to level 5 and was like, wtf am I even doing this piece of garbage. I wouldn't pay 5 sea shells for this game let alone pay to play it.
QFT!
No worries, there a lots of people who will pay for being able to play Elder Scrolls Online. It's just all these cheap asses here, who thinks everything should be free. Pathetic. And this goes with nearly every damn game that comes out.
"I want free, I want free, I want I want I want"
If the product is worth it's money i don't mind if they use all of the payment models the MMORPG uses right now, if it's a turd i won't even pay it a glance or thought.
It's pretty simple for me.
By that i don't mean just ESO mind you, i was speaking in general terms. I have some very strong feeling about the title that i won't disclose right now.
I prefer to pay for a game actually. F2P usually just means garbage. I just have zero interest in playing the game.
The power of the IP may be being over-estimated. Both the power of the IP to get people to buy the game initially and then the power of the IP to get them to pay a subscription.
Someone in Zenimax will, I am sure, have done some sums. They will have targets and - hopefully - worst case numbers as well.
Lots of history says that sub based games sell less well at launch. Maybe they are estimating 2-3M rather than 5-10M if they launched without a sub. Lower sales is something they should expect because they have announced a sub.
And then sub retention: well I hope they are looking at 500k on day 1 and 250k at the 6 month mark. Easy to change gear if they find they have 1M and 500k at the 6 month mark, much harder to scale things back.
Doesn't seem much hope of them abandoning their sub approach in favour of paid for DLC. No sub would transale into higher sales and with the option of a "premium membership package" that would give members regular DLC - and maybe even a few perks! - they would capture the games long term subscribers as well.
Zenimax are talking about content every 4-6 weeks so why not have a 6 month package for - lets say $75 (subscribers usually get a discount for multi-month) for which you get 5 lots of DLC that will usually retail at between $15 and $25 each - plus access to 2 special GM events say. They can play tunes but it should be easy to offer a deal. This works if Zenimax intend to release new content.
And if they don't plan on following through on providing lots of new content that begs the question "what is the sub going to be for?". Don't tell me: /sarcasm on Romans in Space! /sarcasm off. (Sorry old DAoC joke)
I wish I knew what their train of thought was for a target demographic, or how valid the numbers that I saw thrown around that they had budgeted 200 million for this game because I certainly can't see how they spent it.
In my addled, sleep deprived shift worker state I marathoned pretty much every single ESO and Wildstar video I could find in the last 12 hours to compare the features and feel between the two and I have no idea how ESO is going to even survive their target release date. The quality of gameplay seems poor and uninspiring, anything said about crafting seems like a let down. There's too much focus on a single 'gimmicky' pvp feature that seems to be the entire end game.
I don't think they just overestimated their IP. I think they will be responsible for damaging it to the point any further Elder Scrolls game is going to have to go out of it's way to say it's not ESO.
Your NOT getting that.
This is not Skyrim Multiplayer this is ESO. It will be nothing like your experience in Skyrim because they can't give you that. They can't give you and your friend the option to kill any vender or any NPC in the game. THey can't give you the option to go where you please because its focused on always online, and a 'persistent' world.
So don't kid your self. This is NOT Skyrim Multiplayer, this is ESO.
The problem is that other than in title, this is not an elder scrolls game.
I think they are evaluating their game well.
-Races are better than other MMOs and also the style of the graphics make it the most current MMO with orcs... for me that has become a thing recently. I just feel like playing a game that has orcs.
-character creation is robust
-pvp has open world - large scale pvp meaning they have a great mmo engine to build on
- raids sound good, which is more important to raiders but also to anyone picking up the game that this game is tripple A title.
- combat is different than other mmos
- choice -there are interesting choices with multi classing within the 4 choices, but not sure how restrictive that is... but also choice extends with vampires and were wolves
- the emperor idea sounds interesting and different. I'm not sure how localized that will be and how it will affect the the overall pvp scenario if there are a lot of emperors. However, the fact that this is included shows that they are doing something that adds meaning to thier end game it becomes well thought out... and hopefully it works out well to be fun.
- crafting sounds interesting as well, and resource gathering sounds interesting
I remember a Q&A mentioned something about caravans in the open world for pvp... and I hope they really went the full 9 yards with simiulating an in depth open world economy that ties in combat as well.
Also its p2p with a vanity shop. Nothing big... i think the OP is reaching... once you have a p2p, there is no need to mention b2p anyways.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
Well, from my perspective your argument is far more valid for the console version due to all the potential extra fees like LIVE and forcing a subscription into a market where buy to play is the norm. However, the business model is fairly typical of PC games. Any more most MMORPG titles from large companies require a purchase fee, a subscription, and have a cash shop at launch in order to make as much money as they can while interest in the game is high and before most players wear out the content and move on to the next big thing in three months. Inevitably the game will embrace free to play when the sales drop. It has become the normal business cycle. The costs of early adoption is high and you are paying a fast food premium.
Thanks to the success of Skyrim and earlier Elder Scrolls titles the IP is popular enough to draw some interests from casual gamers but to be honest this isn't Star Wars we are writing about. I think everyone expects it will draw a crowd but from my perspective that is going to create a problem to the game. Regardless of how they describe the game those casual players will arrive expecting an elder scrolls experience based on the name and all earlier presentations of the game IP and are going to find a PVP focused game based on re-skinning an older market failure instead. The outrage will be palatable.
So the actual gameplay, open ended, do whatever, be whatever you want style game that has always defined the elder scrolls series wasn't important, just the name of the locations?
I always said the same thing about any of the elder scrolls games, wish I could play them with friends; I'm still saying that. GW2 is already out there, and DAoC has been around for like a decade; I could play either of them and have the same basic experience as TESO, but playing TESO isn't going to be the same experience as playing Skyrim.
Anyone that says TESO is like playing Skyrim with your friends is being misleading, because it's nothing like Skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind, or Daggerfall.
It's pretty clear at this point that TESO isn't really deviating from what MMO's have been doing for quite some time now, and this is what the OP and a lot of others are saying. Zeni/ and Bethesda are simply banking on people being willing to pay a sub play a generic MMO with the Elder scrolls name.
Firor, or whatever his name is, was pretty clear in almost every early interview that they were playing it safe with TESO. The guys in charge of the game came right out and said they want TESO to be familiar to world of warcraft players so that they could jump right in and know exactly what they were getting, but in the Elder scrolls setting.
And so many of you wonder why so many people are disappointed in TESO before it ever releases?
Maybe it's because so many fans of the series have always wanted to play an online or co-op version of the game, not WoW/ DAoC/ GW2/ ToR.
I'm a fan of the civilization games, I'd be pretty upset if they announced Civ 6 was a real time strategy game. It shouldn't be a shock that TESO isn't being received with open arms by "the fans".
What makes you think playing ESO would be anything like playing a TES game with friends? As many people stated before, this isn't the single player games nor is it Skyrim Online - this is a MMO - Zenimax choose to make the game like a MMO and not like a single player game. Playing this game with friends would be like playing any other MMO with friends.
You left out the most IMPORTANT point. The game is a box with sub payment method with the ability to buy things from their website that are associated with the game. It is not an in game Mall.
Your lumping them together as if they all exist in game. Once you buy the game and log in your not terrorized by the "item mall". Its a traditional box sub game.
This is very important to note. Once your in the game you are immersed in the world of Elder Scrolls not some marketing derps item store.
The stuff you buy from their site is what, tee shirts and crap? There are no in game items.
So the actual gameplay, open ended, do whatever, be whatever you want style game that has always defined the elder scrolls series wasn't important, just the name of the locations?
I always said the same thing about any of the elder scrolls games, wish I could play them with friends; I'm still saying that. GW2 is already out there, and DAoC has been around for like a decade; I could play either of them and have the same basic experience as TESO, but playing TESO isn't going to be the same experience as playing Skyrim.
Anyone that says TESO is like playing Skyrim with your friends is being misleading, because it's nothing like Skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind, or Daggerfall.
It's pretty clear at this point that TESO isn't really deviating from what MMO's have been doing for quite some time now, and this is what the OP and a lot of others are saying. Zeni/ and Bethesda are simply banking on people being willing to pay a sub play a generic MMO with the Elder scrolls name.
Firor, or whatever his name is, was pretty clear in almost every early interview that they were playing it safe with TESO. The guys in charge of the game came right out and said they want TESO to be familiar to world of warcraft players so that they could jump right in and know exactly what they were getting, but in the Elder scrolls setting.
And so many of you wonder why so many people are disappointed in TESO before it ever releases?
Maybe it's because so many fans of the series have always wanted to play an online or co-op version of the game, not WoW/ DAoC/ GW2/ ToR.
I'm a fan of the civilization games, I'd be pretty upset if they announced Civ 6 was a real time strategy game. It shouldn't be a shock that TESO isn't being received with open arms by "the fans".
I wouldn't mind if ESO has the same quality or gameplay like WoW...
Then at least i would play it but if this is their definition of copying WoW, then they are trolling or delusional.
I don't think people will play ESO even if it was free.
This is a bunch of nonsense, as much as Zeni's apologist attitude in regards to why they chose to make the game the way they did.
There's more than just WoW, and there is no singular way in which an MMO must play. They lead devs came out and said they chose to make TESO the way they did so it would be familiar to the majority of MMO gamers, and he was very much referring to all the people who are playing a single game, World of Warcraft.
They sited world of warcraft numerous times in the reveal article in game informer, and it wasn't a mistake. Firor was very clear that they wanted to attract more than just ES fans, and in order to do that they needed to make the game as much like existing MMO's as possible.
It was a MARKETTING CHOICE, not a requirement dictated by the genre. There's more than one way to make an MMO, however most MMO gamers are familiar with a single game, WoW.
You can get that exact same quality of gameplay in WoW, GW2, DAoC, and ToR.
There are no quality Elder scrolls like MMO's on the market however. The closet we have is Mortal Online, and "quality" isn't something that that games brings to mind.
It's more accurate to say that if you want to play an online version of skyrim, play Mortal Online.
It would be misleading to say that TESO is like playing any past Elder scrolls game online. To say it's more like playing guild wars 2 would be a heck of a lot more accurate. GW2 is nothing like any previous Elder scrolls game.
Never gonna happen, at least not until next March/April people that actually think this game will go f2p within the year are crazy when has any game went F2P within less then 6 months after release I'll give ya a hint NONE......... I think DCUO was the quickest and it was like 11 months or something....
Within a year sure, but not by the end of this year not when it releases in April........