Seems kind of a silly argument, really. We have Living Story, this is a given. We don't know, however, what else is being worked on behind the scenes in addition to Living Story. Colin mentioned that things like access to new continents, normally reserved for an expansion, may be incorporated into Living Story or released via other means. So the whole "either/or" argument is quite a bit premature.
Originally posted by ThomasN7 If GW2 was to have an expansion it will kill all the dynmaic events they have. It is bad enough the majority of Tyria is empty right now. Only the high end areas are somewhat populated. GW2 suffers from a bad game design.
Not bad game design, bad development focus. Game is just fine and a lot of fun. No trinity was a fail for many, living story failed to keep people playing but they kept pumping it out. Switch to a trinity system where teaming with classes matter and focus on persistent content. They would have a winning game. Payment model would work as well if people were playing.
Bah, you can't simply "switch to a trinity system" in GW2, the whole game is built upon everyone being capable of damage, control and support. The skills would have to be completely redesigned, the professions, the traits, the PvE world and all the dungeon bosses, etc. Some silly taunt mechanic would need to be added... it would ruin the game. There are MMOs built around the trinity and it works there, and there's GW2 which is built around no hard trinity and it works here.
people wanted some kind of f2p ?? you got it !!! now you are not happy they dont work on it ??
they would do it for free ??
you think they will work and add actual contents based on charity ? guild war 2 got a okay cash shop but not one who require the player to buy from it all the time,so im guessing they get not that much money from it......
you guy wanted FREE TO PLAY ? well you got it, but they are not working for add contents because no one work for free...
back to my P2P game i guess
Funny. As far as I recall, expansions have always been paid for in every game I've played whether p2p, f2p or btp . I'd be interested to know which p2p game you play gives away it's full expansions?
ummmm you must have never played EVE online have you? I believe we are on our 18th or 19th FREE Full Expansion, and thats a p2p game. Please do research before making stupid ignorant comments.
I don't play GW2 full time anymore. I jump in once in a while for PvP but come on, the game has seen more updates since release than another game since Asherons Call 1 (in its release time frame).
Does it need an expansion? EVERY MMO RPG NEEDS AN EXPANSION AFTER BEING OUT FOR A YEAR. Every one of them.
There has never been an MMO that could keep up with its players. Pointless article is pointless.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Originally posted by ThomasN7 If GW2 was to have an expansion it will kill all the dynmaic events they have. It is bad enough the majority of Tyria is empty right now. Only the high end areas are somewhat populated. GW2 suffers from a bad game design.
Not bad game design, bad development focus. Game is just fine and a lot of fun. No trinity was a fail for many, living story failed to keep people playing but they kept pumping it out. Switch to a trinity system where teaming with classes matter and focus on persistent content. They would have a winning game. Payment model would work as well if people were playing.
Bah, you can't simply "switch to a trinity system" in GW2, the whole game is built upon everyone being capable of damage, control and support. The skills would have to be completely redesigned, the professions, the traits, the PvE world and all the dungeon bosses, etc. Some silly taunt mechanic would need to be added... it would ruin the game. There are MMOs built around the trinity and it works there, and there's GW2 which is built around no hard trinity and it works here.
Works with... what? Not the MMO community. Almost every respected reviewer in the end said what GW2 taught them. They love the trinity. When people post what they didnt like about GW2 its normally has something too do with the trinity or the living story. Removing the trinity made GW2 a zerg game from dungeon runs, WvW too just running out in the world doing public quests. So no it does not work but for the small number of players that are still playing the game. I have stuck my head in a few times over the past few month. Place is really empty.
Guild Wars 2 won't be running just off LS to add content. They will still have boxed expansions for probably around $40-$60 like most other MMOs that release expansions.
Originally posted by Arskaaa "when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".
GW2 was an ambitious project. When I look at the Manifesto, and then I look at the game, I get a sense, they started to do all these hings but then fell short before they were able to finish them in the way they initially wanted to. It feels like the game that was released is not the game they imagined. I truly believe that GW2 was no where near ready for release and all kinds of corners were cut in order to get it out the door.
That said, I think ANET painted themselves into a corner with the open world they created. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a situation where they've achieved a very precarious balance with it and are not in a position right now to make changes as it might upset the balance.....OR it may just be that adding new content would be a huge project well beyond what they are prepared to undertake.
I'm not at all interested in the (not really) living fanfic. Give me an expansion with a couple of new classes, some new skills, better dynamic events and new areas. that I'd pay for that gladly and come back to the game.
Living story updates are a fine idea, but they are not a replacement for actual meaningful robust content that an expansion provides.
GW2 is a terribly designed game. However it is clearly the Free to Play jewel. It is a lesson that if you want meaningful updates then you need a sub fee to fund it. WoW has regular meaningful updates, while the world of GW2 looks very much the same as it did when it launched.
This should be a lesson to the cheap, dumb, or broke players who promote F2P MMOs. The reality is that games cost money, and everyone should pay their fair share.
No raid end game bosses, and no open pvp-pk maps = ULTRA FAIL GAME!!
the reason because WOW got too manny ppl and years in mmo industry is because that END GAME RAID CHALLENGE BOSSES and OPEN PVP .. its all, that is the point to play mmorpg games.
Once upon a time there was a nearly perfect guild wars game. It was called Guild Wars!
Funny, ANet could fix so many of their problems just by looking at their first game... and learning a little something?
One thing I want to add tho. ANet has some very very talented people working, but the lead designers in my HUMBLE opinion lead this game into a completely wrong direction. Quite unfortunately, I was ready to spend 4000+ hours in that game, just like I did in it's predecessor.
I always have a laugh when I see someone saying that GW2 failed because it's B2P. No. It failed because lead designers made some very wrong calls. That's THE one and only reason.
Once upon a time there was a nearly perfect guild wars game. It was called Guild Wars!
Funny, ANet could fix so many of their problems just by looking at their first game... and learning a little something?
One thing I want to add tho. ANet has some very very talented people working, but the lead designers in my HUMBLE opinion lead this game into a completely wrong direction. Quite unfortunately, I was ready to spend 4000+ hours in that game, just like I did in it's predecessor.
I always have a laugh when I see someone saying that GW2 failed because it's B2P. No. It failed because lead designers made some very wrong calls. That's THE one and only reason.
GW2 was an ambitious project. When I look at the Manifesto, and then I look at the game, I get a sense, they started to do all these hings but then fell short before they were able to finish them in the way they initially wanted to. It feels like the game that was released is not the game they imagined. I truly believe that GW2 was no where near ready for release and all kinds of corners were cut in order to get it out the door.
That said, I think ANET painted themselves into a corner with the open world they created. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a situation where they've achieved a very precarious balance with it and are not in a position right now to make changes as it might upset the balance.....OR it may just be that adding new content would be a huge project well beyond what they are prepared to undertake.
I think the Manifesto was just a sales pitch, and it worked very well. Unfortunately, the ANET concepts pre-launch and what we have now with the direction they have taken GW2 are vastly different beasts. Now it's just a Living Story Gem Store-centric cash grab. It really is unfortunate how it has evolved.
For me, even if they bring in an expansion it won't bring me back. They've completely done a turn-around on what they promised, have ignored their player-base, and continue to charge full steam ahead in the path ANET has chosen. I think the Collaborative Discussions they are showing now is too little too late for a lot of people, and really amounts to a token effort to give hope to those that remain. There are much better studios out there for me to invest in. ANET, imho, failed to deliver and I will never buy one of their products again.
Lol you don't actually pay to play thus game, and 'cash' grabbing' gems you can get for free for exchanging gold for gems is daft. There are design problems with this game, but you know what lots of games have design problem's that are still great games, you play em, you don't play em, you decide without a sub.
I remember buying civ 5 a few years ago, got annoyed by the bad stuff, loved the good stuff - and I still dip in every now and then. What I don't do is freak out on a forum today because the maps are too small, it's a game, and the world has moved on....
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Its pretty obvious that they dont want to expansions because of what people would expect an expansion to have.
People would expect a $40 expansion to have at least 10 new zones and 500 new dynamic events.
New dungeons, new weapons and armor, new enemies, new sPvP maps and new stuff for WvW.
Then you have stuff like new races, new professions, new classes and new weapon types.
Basically, new everything. Because thats what people expect from MMO expansion because that is what other MMO give you.
By comparison the Living Story are much more economical because even if they do offer any of the above then it is at a much, much slower pace and not all at once. A Living Story update can get away with a "go here, kill these and collect these" check list and then its waiting 2 weeks for the next update.
Personally I want a full expansion. The living story is ok but no substitute for additional perm content. All they've truly added was that dungeon in lion's arch. Even the lost shores does little to add to the overall game.
I love Guild Wars 2, but I think it made a huge mistake by going the route it did. At least for me personally. I've barely logged in in months. I rather have the living story be a a bigger update with a series of missions similiar to GW1. There just isn't enough to the game as it is. Traditional quests would also help imo but yeah.
Guild Wars 2 was the closest MMO to perfect, but made some major missteps
Guys, I'v have been playing since beta and only completed about 80% of the map explorations and that's mainly because I like to take my time exploring and playing the game. I have several maxed level characters with different races and professions (also bought 2 extra character slots). From start, I did not play PvP as much due to the reward system back then but since previous updates, I'm now able to earn some gold PvPing. I've become more interested in this side of the game and now have been doing sPVP heavily for the past 2 months. I'm becoming a better PvP player and enjoying it very much. Now, Anet just have to figure out how to combine the best of both worlds (PvP and PvE) so that I don't feel like I miss out on the PvE contents while I spend most of my time in PvP. Though, Anet did mention their thoughts about this on the website.
Yes, I'd would like to see an expansion rather then a two weeks living story updates mainly because I would like to see new professions or races and new skill/weapon skills etc. To me, an update with these contents are more meaningful and worth while.
I'm not a hardcore mmo player but I do play almost everyday! and yet, I'm just starting to master my thief!! lol. So yeah, to me.. this game has a lot to offer and it is well worth every dollars I spent on the game. I would definitely pay for any and all expansions they release!!
One of the big arguments for GW2 at release was the B2P model would be good for taking breaks and coming back later to see all the changes since you stopped playing. It kind of sucks when that simply isn't possible with the content changes they've made.
Originally posted by Bladestrom Lol you don't actually pay to play thus game, and 'cash' grabbing' gems you can get for free for exchanging gold for gems is daft.
Hmm... that sounds like something else... crap what is it? Hmm... Oh wait, Mobile games! Yeah I know GW2 isn't AS bad as many of them, but its still the model of "you can grind your heart out to get Gems, or you can pay real money to get them instantly" its not really a 'fun' way to get them by grinding.
That and you obviously forgot the fact you payed for the box of the game, so yes you did actually pay for the game.
None the less, Expansions I feel are a far better model, allowing for more large scale change and addition. For GW2's model though "living story" works best for them. Its just about being able to make those small little patches feel significant enough and not tacked on. The story element of GW2 is pretty cringe worthy (which to be fare, many MMos are the same just they don't push it as they hide in the background usually) which means that those updates need more things to do gameplay wise which... can be difficult to attract people to. Super Adventure Box was one that actually worked for them, one I actually have respect for. Other updates... they honestly don't look very impressive or attention holding. Perhaps if I felt gameplay in the game was better I'd be able to get involved, but even then they just seem to lack much substance.
I like the idea of living story, but not its reality, which is basically just more grind. And expansion would have the same problems though, in that you consume it in a week, and then what? Living story gives you a reason to check in ever couple weeks, even if theres nothing really to it.
The living story could be a great idea if AN did it better. It's good that they are trying to keep players interested in their game, I mean at least they are trying, but the problem is that after so long players are going to want a big update and I think GW2 is really in need of it. A little bit of extra story (Story that isn't very entertaining from what I hear) is good but more content than that would be much better the lack of things that GW2 lacks content-wise is the reason I don't play much. It really lacks in guild-features as well...I'd expect guild housing or something by now and a lot of other things just something more than a couple of quests and a new dungeon or two
people wanted some kind of f2p ?? you got it !!! now you are not happy they dont work on it ??
they would do it for free ??
you think they will work and add actual contents based on charity ? guild war 2 got a okay cash shop but not one who require the player to buy from it all the time,so im guessing they get not that much money from it......
you guy wanted FREE TO PLAY ? well you got it, but they are not working for add contents because no one work for free...
back to my P2P game i guess
We get that you love subscription models.
However GW2 has been churning out content faster than almost any other MMO to-date. The problem is not so much a lack of content, it's that people are expecting to see an expansion (a paid expansion), instead of these free updates. It's part of the catch-22 that are our expectations for MMOs.
Personally, I think the game needs to either be adding an expansion soon, or to be structuring their living story updates to mimic more of a gradual expansion of the game.
They have already said they have the capacity to do so, but for w/e reason they are hung up on this experiment that is 'living story'. An experiment a lot of people have already voiced as being misguided, but Anet is sticking to their guns on this, for better or worse. Which is a shame, because there are is a lot of potential coming around the corner that could sweep the rug out from under them. Inspite GW2 remaining a good game by many players' opinion.
I agree re living story, it just hasn't done the job of engaging and connecting me with the world - guess, personally feels like a story line layered on top of the world. Expansion, elite mode servers (old gw1 stylee). And a lot more depth to the hearts and events for me would be win.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Comments
Oderint, dum metuant.
Bah, you can't simply "switch to a trinity system" in GW2, the whole game is built upon everyone being capable of damage, control and support. The skills would have to be completely redesigned, the professions, the traits, the PvE world and all the dungeon bosses, etc. Some silly taunt mechanic would need to be added... it would ruin the game. There are MMOs built around the trinity and it works there, and there's GW2 which is built around no hard trinity and it works here.
Oderint, dum metuant.
ummmm you must have never played EVE online have you? I believe we are on our 18th or 19th FREE Full Expansion, and thats a p2p game. Please do research before making stupid ignorant comments.
I don't play GW2 full time anymore. I jump in once in a while for PvP but come on, the game has seen more updates since release than another game since Asherons Call 1 (in its release time frame).
Does it need an expansion? EVERY MMO RPG NEEDS AN EXPANSION AFTER BEING OUT FOR A YEAR. Every one of them.
There has never been an MMO that could keep up with its players. Pointless article is pointless.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Works with... what? Not the MMO community. Almost every respected reviewer in the end said what GW2 taught them. They love the trinity. When people post what they didnt like about GW2 its normally has something too do with the trinity or the living story. Removing the trinity made GW2 a zerg game from dungeon runs, WvW too just running out in the world doing public quests. So no it does not work but for the small number of players that are still playing the game. I have stuck my head in a few times over the past few month. Place is really empty.
Originally posted by Arskaaa
"when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".
I really am left to wonder.......
GW2 was an ambitious project. When I look at the Manifesto, and then I look at the game, I get a sense, they started to do all these hings but then fell short before they were able to finish them in the way they initially wanted to. It feels like the game that was released is not the game they imagined. I truly believe that GW2 was no where near ready for release and all kinds of corners were cut in order to get it out the door.
That said, I think ANET painted themselves into a corner with the open world they created. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a situation where they've achieved a very precarious balance with it and are not in a position right now to make changes as it might upset the balance.....OR it may just be that adding new content would be a huge project well beyond what they are prepared to undertake.
I'm not at all interested in the (not really) living fanfic. Give me an expansion with a couple of new classes, some new skills, better dynamic events and new areas. that I'd pay for that gladly and come back to the game.
Living story updates are a fine idea, but they are not a replacement for actual meaningful robust content that an expansion provides.
GW2 is a terribly designed game. However it is clearly the Free to Play jewel. It is a lesson that if you want meaningful updates then you need a sub fee to fund it. WoW has regular meaningful updates, while the world of GW2 looks very much the same as it did when it launched.
This should be a lesson to the cheap, dumb, or broke players who promote F2P MMOs. The reality is that games cost money, and everyone should pay their fair share.
No raid end game bosses, and no open pvp-pk maps = ULTRA FAIL GAME!!
the reason because WOW got too manny ppl and years in mmo industry is because that END GAME RAID CHALLENGE BOSSES and OPEN PVP .. its all, that is the point to play mmorpg games.
Once upon a time there was a nearly perfect guild wars game. It was called Guild Wars!
Funny, ANet could fix so many of their problems just by looking at their first game... and learning a little something?
I always have a laugh when I see someone saying that GW2 failed because it's B2P. No. It failed because lead designers made some very wrong calls. That's THE one and only reason.
The first GW was good, the second one is a joke.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
I think the Manifesto was just a sales pitch, and it worked very well. Unfortunately, the ANET concepts pre-launch and what we have now with the direction they have taken GW2 are vastly different beasts. Now it's just a Living Story Gem Store-centric cash grab. It really is unfortunate how it has evolved.
For me, even if they bring in an expansion it won't bring me back. They've completely done a turn-around on what they promised, have ignored their player-base, and continue to charge full steam ahead in the path ANET has chosen. I think the Collaborative Discussions they are showing now is too little too late for a lot of people, and really amounts to a token effort to give hope to those that remain. There are much better studios out there for me to invest in. ANET, imho, failed to deliver and I will never buy one of their products again.
I remember buying civ 5 a few years ago, got annoyed by the bad stuff, loved the good stuff - and I still dip in every now and then. What I don't do is freak out on a forum today because the maps are too small, it's a game, and the world has moved on....
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Its pretty obvious that they dont want to expansions because of what people would expect an expansion to have.
People would expect a $40 expansion to have at least 10 new zones and 500 new dynamic events.
New dungeons, new weapons and armor, new enemies, new sPvP maps and new stuff for WvW.
Then you have stuff like new races, new professions, new classes and new weapon types.
Basically, new everything. Because thats what people expect from MMO expansion because that is what other MMO give you.
By comparison the Living Story are much more economical because even if they do offer any of the above then it is at a much, much slower pace and not all at once. A Living Story update can get away with a "go here, kill these and collect these" check list and then its waiting 2 weeks for the next update.
Personally I want a full expansion. The living story is ok but no substitute for additional perm content. All they've truly added was that dungeon in lion's arch. Even the lost shores does little to add to the overall game.
I love Guild Wars 2, but I think it made a huge mistake by going the route it did. At least for me personally. I've barely logged in in months. I rather have the living story be a a bigger update with a series of missions similiar to GW1. There just isn't enough to the game as it is. Traditional quests would also help imo but yeah.
Guild Wars 2 was the closest MMO to perfect, but made some major missteps
Guys, I'v have been playing since beta and only completed about 80% of the map explorations and that's mainly because I like to take my time exploring and playing the game. I have several maxed level characters with different races and professions (also bought 2 extra character slots). From start, I did not play PvP as much due to the reward system back then but since previous updates, I'm now able to earn some gold PvPing. I've become more interested in this side of the game and now have been doing sPVP heavily for the past 2 months. I'm becoming a better PvP player and enjoying it very much. Now, Anet just have to figure out how to combine the best of both worlds (PvP and PvE) so that I don't feel like I miss out on the PvE contents while I spend most of my time in PvP. Though, Anet did mention their thoughts about this on the website.
Yes, I'd would like to see an expansion rather then a two weeks living story updates mainly because I would like to see new professions or races and new skill/weapon skills etc. To me, an update with these contents are more meaningful and worth while.
I'm not a hardcore mmo player but I do play almost everyday! and yet, I'm just starting to master my thief!! lol. So yeah, to me.. this game has a lot to offer and it is well worth every dollars I spent on the game. I would definitely pay for any and all expansions they release!!
Hmm... that sounds like something else... crap what is it? Hmm... Oh wait, Mobile games! Yeah I know GW2 isn't AS bad as many of them, but its still the model of "you can grind your heart out to get Gems, or you can pay real money to get them instantly" its not really a 'fun' way to get them by grinding.
That and you obviously forgot the fact you payed for the box of the game, so yes you did actually pay for the game.
None the less, Expansions I feel are a far better model, allowing for more large scale change and addition. For GW2's model though "living story" works best for them. Its just about being able to make those small little patches feel significant enough and not tacked on. The story element of GW2 is pretty cringe worthy (which to be fare, many MMos are the same just they don't push it as they hide in the background usually) which means that those updates need more things to do gameplay wise which... can be difficult to attract people to. Super Adventure Box was one that actually worked for them, one I actually have respect for. Other updates... they honestly don't look very impressive or attention holding. Perhaps if I felt gameplay in the game was better I'd be able to get involved, but even then they just seem to lack much substance.
As if it has to be Living Story or Expansion.
It is Living Story AND Expansion.
1 year without an expansion the tragedy!
WoW - 2004.
The Burning Crusafe - 2007.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
We get that you love subscription models.
However GW2 has been churning out content faster than almost any other MMO to-date. The problem is not so much a lack of content, it's that people are expecting to see an expansion (a paid expansion), instead of these free updates. It's part of the catch-22 that are our expectations for MMOs.
Personally, I think the game needs to either be adding an expansion soon, or to be structuring their living story updates to mimic more of a gradual expansion of the game.
They have already said they have the capacity to do so, but for w/e reason they are hung up on this experiment that is 'living story'. An experiment a lot of people have already voiced as being misguided, but Anet is sticking to their guns on this, for better or worse. Which is a shame, because there are is a lot of potential coming around the corner that could sweep the rug out from under them. Inspite GW2 remaining a good game by many players' opinion.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D