Let's make more of a mountain of this mole hill...
I'm more convinced than ever that people will justify ANYTHING to be able to complain zealously about something...
So, everything else about the game was PERFECT - but now; with this news - you may as well burn the building down and start over right?
Get some perspective people. This is NOT an issue.
Exactly this, and I would imagine that they are closing threads because they have 1 thread open on the subject and want people to post in that, blizzard does this all the time on their forums.
Since it's beta, who knows if this was just thrown in as a test to see animation or clipping issues, but no......lets not give them that benefit, lets complain some more and play the "I won't buy the game unless you obey me" card, cause that's so mature...I'm glad they are closing threads and threatening to ban.
A huge wall of text for patch notes, a great article here that highlights everything, and the only thing people can focus on for 50 posts, is something like this, unbelievable.
There are literally feminazi's running around going ape over the "unrealistic" proportions....And Carbine caved. I really, really, REALLY hate when a vocal minority have to go and get changes made to video games. And as a woman, I hate feminazi's. Mind your business and don't try to force your extreme views on me and change the things I enjoy. This also has me frustrated with Carbine...I mean, really?
Game is cartonish, breasts won't make females prettier, very different from Asia style MMO where they make females very attractive, to a point where I only play female characters.
Originally posted by Valentina There are literally feminazi's running around going ape over the "unrealistic" proportions....And Carbine caved. I really, really, REALLY hate when a vocal minority have to go and get changes made to video games. And as a woman, I hate feminazi's. Mind your business and don't try to force your extreme views on me and change the things I enjoy. This also has me frustrated with Carbine...I mean, really?
If the breast reduction is significant then for some reason the small breasts will only encourages people and their anime fantasy.
While large breasts satisfy one hypnotic state of euphoria... the other is more for a just learning to walk, jumping off the walls eye ball popping gawking at anything remotely sexual with drool coming off their bib.
You cant win with large or small... so I guess they went medium... most likely trying to see this as a compromise.
Imo, large serves a purpose that promotes happiness as I have read in scholarly articles... so its more for science and the benefit of mankind.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
You mean the removal of choices and the flat out banning and censuring of anyone that simply states they like the old designs better then the new sizes on their official forums?
If they are making those statements in a brand new thread, then yes good for them for censoring and banning. People can make their statements in the open thread, they don't need to be special snowflakes and make new attention seeking threads.
Follow the forum rules and maybe they wont be censored or banned.
You mean the removal of choices and the flat out banning and censuring of anyone that simply states they like the old designs better then the new sizes on their official forums?
If they are making those statements in a brand new thread, then yes good for them for censoring and banning. People can make their statements in the open thread, they don't need to be special snowflakes and make new attention seeking threads.
Follow the forum rules and maybe they wont be censored or banned.
They closed the thread that was about it, people tried to make another thread to give their feedback.
The CM's are there to help the community, they should have directed them to the right thread and condensed the discussion there instead of deleting threads and threatening people with bans for merely mentioning anything about breasts or sliders.
'Cuz if you are, it's pretty shitty of you to break the NDA and tell folks about all the things that you don't like.
Point of fact, they have NDAs specifically so that people like you don't come out and say 'Man, their quests suck' or 'Man, their game works like ass on my giant gaming rig' or 'man, their abilities aren't balanced in every situation I can think of'.
They don't want you to do that mainly because doing that harms the image of their game when it is in an extremely vulnerable place. No one has paid for their game yet. If you're a beta player, you got in for free, agreed to give your feedback to them (and not to share your feelings with the outside world), and you got to have a voice about what's cool and what's not in their game that actually gets listened to, because you're one of the few people who has actually experienced it in its rough, unfinished state.
There isn't even a fucking release date yet, man. Do you think betas aren't intended to fix exactly the kinds of problems you listed here? For some reason, are you convinced that the game is going to come out looking exactly like it does now, and not in an improved form with increased functionality and wider support?
Do you realize that the modeling team basically can only do modeling, and that they're probably listening to feedback from places you haven't been arsed to read? Do you think they made this change specifically because they decided it would be funny to stick it to all the fanboys who love big tits? It really sounds like they attacked you in some way, rather than just made a change to the game you agreed to help them test.
What if this change was made because some busybody at the ratings board has a stick up their ass about how big tits are allowed to be in video games, and threatened to make Wildstar an M-rated game? Which, by the way, is ridiculously bad for your sales and would be a serious blow to the developer. What if that's what happened, and you're fucking with them while they're over a barrel and trying to make a product that will actually keep food on their tables?
I don't know if you are a halfwit or if you just have a total lack of respect for the hard work and dedication of others, but on reflection, I'm not going to rule out a combination of the pair. Let me end on this: even if you are in the beta, and you know more than the rest of us combined as a result, you have demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt that you are a colossal waste of a key that could have gone to somebody who gives a rat's ass.
Edit: just to be absolutely clear, this rant is pointed squarely at Sunnymash.
'Cuz if you are, it's pretty shitty of you to break the NDA and tell folks about all the things that you don't like.
Point of fact, they have NDAs specifically so that people like you don't come out and say 'Man, their quests suck' or 'Man, their game works like ass on my giant gaming rig' or 'man, their abilities aren't balanced in every situation I can think of'.
They don't want you to do that mainly because doing that harms the image of their game when it is in an extremely vulnerable place. No one has paid for their game yet. If you're a beta player, you got in for free, agreed to give your feedback to them (and not to share your feelings with the outside world), and you got to have a voice about what's cool and what's not in their game that actually gets listened to, because you're one of the few people who has actually experienced it in its rough, unfinished state.
There isn't even a fucking release date yet, man. Do you think betas aren't intended to fix exactly the kinds of problems you listed here? For some reason, are you convinced that the game is going to come out looking exactly like it does now, and not in an improved form with increased functionality and wider support?
Do you realize that the modeling team basically can only do modeling, and that they're probably listening to feedback from places you haven't been arsed to read? Do you think they made this change specifically because they decided it would be funny to stick it to all the fanboys who love big tits? It really sounds like they attacked you in some way, rather than just made a change to the game you agreed to help them test.
What if this change was made because some busybody at the ratings board has a stick up their ass about how big tits are allowed to be in video games, and threatened to make Wildstar an M-rated game? Which, by the way, is ridiculously bad for your sales and would be a serious blow to the developer. What if that's what happened, and you're fucking with them while they're over a barrel and trying to make a product that will actually keep food on their tables?
I don't know if you are a halfwit or if you just have a total lack of respect for the hard work and dedication of others, but on reflection, I'm not going to rule out a combination of the pair. Let me end on this: even if you are in the beta, and you know more than the rest of us combined as a result, you have demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt that you are a colossal waste of a key that could have gone to somebody who gives a rat's ass.
Don't worry, I'm not in the beta. That I can assure you. I'm just around people that are. And as I have not signed anything I am not breaking anything.
In fact everything I am talking about is not breaking the NDA.
The NDA has been partially lifted for a long time, anything shown and shared in their official videos or by people with press accounts under level 15 is ok to share and discuss. It's ok to give feedback and opinions about it, good or negative, it's our right.
I wasn't implying that the game is going to be forever bad, just that it is not great right now either.
That was my entire point. The game is not good. It may be good someday and we really hoped it would be good, because Carbine seemed to be able to deliver something good, but now it appears like we were being given a wrong impression from them.
They have also officially stated that they do not care which Rating they get. Maybe they lied about that, but that is what they have said in the past, that an M rating is ok and they won't change their vision for the sake of a T.
That was something the old Carbine said, something that made me respect them and even admire them. It was dedication to their art.
I respect a lot the modelers, I'm an artist myself and I love every model that had been releasing so far, they all looked splendid. But that is not the case with the new models, I can easily tell from a technical point of view that they are an improvisation, a mediocre modification of the pre existing models that barely changed one part. I have no respect for them, you can disagree with that but it is my right to feel this way and express it. And an art model is more than the sum of its parts, it's a thing of its own, changing one part while leaving the rest the way it was may not work and in this case it sure didn't work well in the end, it doesn't look polished, the breasts don't look naturally smaller but they look like the same exaggerated stylish look of before but at a smaller size and it just ends looking even weirder and hints that it might have been a rushed job.
They say it wasn't a rushed job, but that sound suspicious, the timing and the results were all odd, and it's contradictive with how they where handling themselves before and everything we had come to know, was it a business suit calling that shot? how can we be sure of it when they aren't communicating well with the community?
I respected Carbine in the past, and respected what they had done, but right now I don't really feel they deserve that from me until they come straight with the fans and stop acting so much like a secretive and hard to trust sneaky corporation and start acting more like the Carbine we knew.
You can call me a half wit if you please, that's not going to change things.
You mean the removal of choices and the flat out banning and censuring of anyone that simply states they like the old designs better then the new sizes on their official forums?
If they are making those statements in a brand new thread, then yes good for them for censoring and banning. People can make their statements in the open thread, they don't need to be special snowflakes and make new attention seeking threads.
Follow the forum rules and maybe they wont be censored or banned.
They closed the thread that was about it, people tried to make another thread to give their feedback.
The CM's are there to help the community, they should have directed them to the right thread and condensed the discussion there instead of deleting threads and threatening people with bans for merely mentioning anything about breasts or sliders.
First, Sunnymash, if you are claiming to have access to the official forums you are violating the NDA since beta testers aren't allowed to reveal their participation (fact). If you are not in the beta, then you are only spreading rumor since there is no other evidence that this is true. Even more hilarious is the fact that the article even states that sliders are most likely coming post launch so the point is moot.
Second, you're the only one remotely taking the position that Carbine has somehow gone ogre with their community over one Massively artilce. Eliot (the writer of the Nexus Telegraph) has been highly critical of WildStar regarding several decisions, especially the payment model. If Carbine suddenly made kneejerk reacitons based on Massively (or any media) articles, certainly they wouldn't have used breast size as the one issue to go "o jesus, we need to fix naow!"
Third, the idea of the over-sexualization of female models is a long running discussion throughout the MMO community. WildStar isn't suddenly going all politically correct, and the reduction of the forementioned breast sizes aren't proof that WildStar is suddenly changing it's tune. The female models are mostly still quite sexy (which has been this way since we've seen any art assets released). It's the style of the artists and that won't change.
Fourth, and finally: if the writer of the article didn't want boobs to be the #1 discussed subject in this thread, he shouldn't have put it in the title since that's all 90% of the posters read anyway.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
You mean the removal of choices and the flat out banning and censuring of anyone that simply states they like the old designs better then the new sizes on their official forums?
If they are making those statements in a brand new thread, then yes good for them for censoring and banning. People can make their statements in the open thread, they don't need to be special snowflakes and make new attention seeking threads.
Follow the forum rules and maybe they wont be censored or banned.
They closed the thread that was about it, people tried to make another thread to give their feedback.
The CM's are there to help the community, they should have directed them to the right thread and condensed the discussion there instead of deleting threads and threatening people with bans for merely mentioning anything about breasts or sliders
Sorry, misclick - double post.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
Breasts too small = People will definately drop the game.
Stupid change so close to launch!
News flash: they're all still kinda big, just not bouncing on the ground or face anymore. I'm sure the Aurin and Human chiropractors are happy.
Sliders are coming post launch (possibly, according to Frost).
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
You mean the removal of choices and the flat out banning and censuring of anyone that simply states they like the old designs better then the new sizes on their official forums?
If they are making those statements in a brand new thread, then yes good for them for censoring and banning. People can make their statements in the open thread, they don't need to be special snowflakes and make new attention seeking threads.
Follow the forum rules and maybe they wont be censored or banned.
They closed the thread that was about it, people tried to make another thread to give their feedback.
The CM's are there to help the community, they should have directed them to the right thread and condensed the discussion there instead of deleting threads and threatening people with bans for merely mentioning anything about breasts or sliders.
First, Sunnymash, if you are claming to have access to the official forums you are violating the NDA since beta testers aren't allowed to reveal their participation (fact). If you are not in the beta, then you are only spreading rumor since there is no other evidence that this is true.
Second, you're the only one remotely taking the position that Carbine has somehow gone ogre with their community over one Massively artilce. Eliot (the writer of the Nexus Telegraph) has been highly critical of WildStar regarding several decisions, especially the payment model. If Carbine suddenly made kneejerk reacitons based on Massively (or any media) articles, certainly they wouldn't have used breast size as the one issue to go "o jesus, we need to fix naow!"
Third, the idea of the over-sexualization of female models is a long running discussion throughout the MMO community. WildStar isn't suddenly going all politically correct, and the reduction of the forementioned breast sizes aren't proof that WildStar is suddenly changing it's tune. The female models are mostly still quite sexy (which has been this way since we've seen any art assets released). It's the style of the artists and that won't change.
Fourth, and finally: if the writer of the article didn't want boobs to be the #1 discussed subject in this thread, he shouldn't have put it in the title since that's all 90% of the posters read anyway.
I do not have access to the forums per se so do not worry about it.
Nothing I do breaks the NDA.
Look I didn't say anything about the characters not looking sexy anymore, I'm saying they don't look good from a technical design perspective, and that the changes they made were minimal, and the whole job is something that can be easily and quickly done.
They had those models for years, and all this while they were perfectly fine, they are still technically perfect within the rest of the game. Suddenly they change them though, and just days after it became the hot topic? One article is just an article for sure maybe they had toyed with the concept before, but the topic was already being discussed and the extra attention brought by that article could have been influential as well in having them released now with the latest patch in their current form, the timing is very fitting and the very mediocre job they did with the new models makes it something that appears rushed if that was the case.
The most troubling things are that they told us this is what they always wanted them to look, and that sounds so ridiculous, because it's so clear how bad they are and how little polish and work they really got, and they had not said a word about it before now, instead they had mentioned some of body options which now they say are too hard to implement so they will have to wait for some indeterminate future, they are just a maybe.
So the game ends with a mediocre change that let's be honest here, is not really what most people wanted when they asked for options, it isn't even a good thing to give to those that wanted smaller breasts because they didn't do such a good job with them compared to their normal standards.
And it looks rushed, hart to tell for sure if it was rushed but it seems that way and even if it wasn't then the negative feedback on this matter is important, they used to be very open to feedback, the devs are listening right? But what about now? Not now.
Based on their posts about sldiers, they say they tried but couldn't get them for launch, looks like they wanted to deliver some smaller sized options, so basically choices, which would honestly be amazing, choices like that are great and no one with a fair judgement could oppose them, so of course they would be awesome, it's really what many fans were asking. But implementing them needed more work than they expected so they put that in the backburner for now.
So far that's reasonable but they the way they seem to be dishonest is wrong and their reaction to legitimate feedback that happened to be negative was not cool and they have given no one any explanation as to why they cannot release both, the new model if they really think they look good enough and the old models that were fine for years before? They are in favor of sliders but the time requirement makes it hard to release with the game, but they do like the options, and they have two different sets of designs, that's the choice the people's asking for right there, why have they said nothing about that possibility?
I'm not a monster here, I just want to know what's going on, I care about the game, and I liked Carbine being honest and down to earth before, why can't they be like that with us now and listen? That's not an unreasonable thing to want.
Breasts too small = People will definately drop the game.
Stupid change so close to launch!
News flash: they're all still kinda big, just not bouncing on the ground or face anymore. I'm sure the Aurin and Human chiropractors are happy.
Sliders are coming post launch (possibly, according to Frost).
They don't need chiropractors because they have no real body, it's a fantasy game in a fantastic style with fantastic things made of 1's and 0's generated pixels.
And the size is relative, that's really not the important thing, the uncalled reduction is a problem, the lack of real options is a problem.
They still look big even though the size they have is way smaller, that's wrong. They still look big but now it is more noticeable how unnatural they always were, they look less stylized but still fake which makes them look silly. It's all because they barely changed them, they are mostly a resize of the old ones.
And if sliders were really coming post launch it wouldn't be such a problem, they released some odd designs but maybe they had their reasons, they still gave people the options later.
But they are not confirming any sliders or any choices yet. The best thing we got is a maybe someday.
That's not the same as for sure later or post launch on the first big patch.
Frost was asked about fishing and body customization. He was able to say yes there will be fishing but after the game is launched on the first patch if possible. But with sliders all we got is is that maybe someday we'll see them.
You mean the removal of choices and the flat out banning and censuring of anyone that simply states they like the old designs better then the new sizes on their official forums?
If they are making those statements in a brand new thread, then yes good for them for censoring and banning. People can make their statements in the open thread, they don't need to be special snowflakes and make new attention seeking threads.
Follow the forum rules and maybe they wont be censored or banned.
They closed the thread that was about it, people tried to make another thread to give their feedback.
The CM's are there to help the community, they should have directed them to the right thread and condensed the discussion there instead of deleting threads and threatening people with bans for merely mentioning anything about breasts or sliders.
First, Sunnymash, if you are claming to have access to the official forums you are violating the NDA since beta testers aren't allowed to reveal their participation (fact). If you are not in the beta, then you are only spreading rumor since there is no other evidence that this is true.
Second, you're the only one remotely taking the position that Carbine has somehow gone ogre with their community over one Massively artilce. Eliot (the writer of the Nexus Telegraph) has been highly critical of WildStar regarding several decisions, especially the payment model. If Carbine suddenly made kneejerk reacitons based on Massively (or any media) articles, certainly they wouldn't have used breast size as the one issue to go "o jesus, we need to fix naow!"
Third, the idea of the over-sexualization of female models is a long running discussion throughout the MMO community. WildStar isn't suddenly going all politically correct, and the reduction of the forementioned breast sizes aren't proof that WildStar is suddenly changing it's tune. The female models are mostly still quite sexy (which has been this way since we've seen any art assets released). It's the style of the artists and that won't change.
Fourth, and finally: if the writer of the article didn't want boobs to be the #1 discussed subject in this thread, he shouldn't have put it in the title since that's all 90% of the posters read anyway.
I do not have access to the forums per se so do not worry about it.
Nothing I do breaks the NDA.
Look I didn't say anything about the characters not looking sexy anymore, I'm saying they don't look good from a technical design perspective, and that the changes they made were minimal, and the whole job is something that can be easily and quickly done.
They had those models for years, and all this while they were perfectly fine, they are still technically perfect within the rest of the game. Suddenly they change them though, and just days after it became the hot topic? One article is just an article for sure maybe they had toyed with the concept before, but the topic was already being discussed and the extra attention brought by that article could have been influential as well in having them released now with the latest patch in their current form, the timing is very fitting and the very mediocre job they did with the new models makes it something that appears rushed if that was the case.
Yes, those were the female models for years but Carbine has been letting in new waves of testers, all with equal views and feedback. A similar example of a change during development: It was a tab-target game for years as well (up to 2011 at least at Gamescom). Other examples: questing changes, removal of flying mounts, addition of "server only" LFG system. Carbine has a history of listening to feedback and making changes. As far as female breasts are concerned, WildStar's are all still big. However, it has become the discussion of this entire thread and there is so much more content this covers.
The most troubling things are that they told us this is what they always wanted them to look, and that sounds so ridiculous, because it's so clear how bad they are and how little polish and work they really got, and they had not said a word about it before now, instead they had mentioned some of body options which now they say are too hard to implement so they will have to wait for some indeterminate future, they are just a maybe.
If you do not have beta fourm access, how do you know that this subject hasn't been discussed until now? There have been several public blogs and articles by bloggers and press, discussing this topic as well. Now, Carbine has had a history of listening to feedback and making changes. Carbine has never had a "screw you, this is how they look" attitude about anything. This change actually fits with the common pattern of how they operate - they listen, they consider and they adjust. If this is a problem, don't follow or play a Carbine game.
So the game ends with a mediocre change that let's be honest here, is not really what most people wanted when they asked for options, it isn't even a good thing to give to those that wanted smaller breasts because they
barely changed them, they are mostly a resize of the old ones.
And it looks rushed, hart to tell for sure if it was rushed but it seems that way and even if it wasn't then the negative feedback on this matter is important, they used to be very open to feedback, the devs are listening right? But what about now? Not now.
didn't do such a good job with them compared to their normal standards.
This is a matter of opinion plus, the game isn't in final. Why judge a game in closed beta on lack of art polish? Anything released by Press covering levels 1-15 are supposed to indicate that WildStar is in closed beta and content is subject to change. Hell, if Carbine was in a "rush" to do anything, they wouldn't have delayed their game. The game's been in development since 2005 - it's hilarious to say anything they do is "rushed".
Based on their posts about sldiers, they say they tried but couldn't get them for launch, looks like they wanted to deliver some smaller sized options, so basically choices, which would honestly be amazing, choices like that are great and no one with a fair judgement could oppose them, so of course they would be awesome, it's really what many fans were asking. But implementing them needed more work than they expected so they put that in the backburner for now.
I agree 100% sliders would be awesome. This is why they want to put them in - most people want to see them. As you previously mentioned, they shouldn't rush changes and get them right. The post-launch expectation is better than a quick fix to get it in before launch and have tons of clipping or other issues. As a happy medium, in the meantime - a reduction of TWO races female breasts were put in. This is a reasonable compromise.
So far that's reasonable but they the way they seem to be dishonest is wrong and their reaction to legitimate feedback that happened to be negative was not cool and they have given no one any explanation as to why they cannot release both, the new model if they really think they look good enough and the old models that were fine for years before? They are in favor of sliders but the time requirement makes it hard to release with the game, but they do like the options, and they have two different sets of designs, that's the choice the people's asking for right there, why have they said nothing about that possibility?
As I mentioned, other things that were fine years before: tab targeting, old quest system, flying mounts, limited exeterior housing decoration, etc. Carbine has a history of listening to feedback and making changes, and this change fits with that philosophy. Outside of the core purpose of the game, minor changes will continue to happen - even if something was "fine" last year.
I'm not a monster here, I just want to know what's going on, I care about the game, and I liked Carbine being honest and down to earth before, why can't they be like that with us now and listen? That's not an unreasonable thing to want.
I can tell you care about WildStar, and this is a good thing. A healthy discussion never hurt anybody. We can agree to disagree, but I would be careful accusing Carbine of suddenly becoming a different company because they reduce HUGE boobs to just BIG boobs.
I appreciate your points. My responses are in yellow and I somehow broke the quotes up a bit, but hopefully my thoughts come across ok.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
I came over to this article via a link from another website so just treat what I'm going to say as an outsider opinion please.
First of all thank you for the article. It has the most detailed information so far as to what is in or not in the patch.
I have to say that this article has some bias though. Your research is good, but I feel you do not accomplish remaining neutral and the title is also just sensationalist. I have no idea if this is always your style or if it's just oversight, but an article that focuses on providing the readers with 1st rate info should have no place for such opinions. You might think "get a load of this, a critic criticizing a critic", but no I'm just a reader and it should not be abnormal for a reader to criticize a critic No harsh feelings.
So here I go with a couple of quotes from your article:
- There was more good news about PvP gear. “PvP gear is only earned in PvP. We wanted to make sure that PvPers only have to do PvP to earn the gear they need. We want players to play the way they want to play, in the systems they want to engage in while playing Wildstar.”
- Another forum poster highlighted this imaginative use of game mechanics, combining a double-jump and dodge to create a “Super Dodge”.Luckily, Frost isn’t in a hurry to remove it. “You know how we say ‘The Devs are Listening?’ Well, we'll see how people use/hate/love/abuse this ability and react accordingly.”
You could simply just omit the words I've underlined above (it won't even mess up the sentences, the information you provide still gets across).
Again, please don't misunderstand me I'm not flaming you for this. All I wanted to do was note how some readers who have different opinions on those matters which are highly debateable could feel alienated when reading your article. It would be a shame for them to not get the intended enjoyment out of your article just because of ill feelings they develop against you.
You mean the removal of choices and the flat out banning and censuring of anyone that simply states they like the old designs better then the new sizes on their official forums?
If they are making those statements in a brand new thread, then yes good for them for censoring and banning. People can make their statements in the open thread, they don't need to be special snowflakes and make new attention seeking threads.
Follow the forum rules and maybe they wont be censored or banned.
They closed the thread that was about it, people tried to make another thread to give their feedback.
The CM's are there to help the community, they should have directed them to the right thread and condensed the discussion there instead of deleting threads and threatening people with bans for merely mentioning anything about breasts or sliders.
First, Sunnymash, if you are claming to have access to the official forums you are violating the NDA since beta testers aren't allowed to reveal their participation (fact). If you are not in the beta, then you are only spreading rumor since there is no other evidence that this is true.
Second, you're the only one remotely taking the position that Carbine has somehow gone ogre with their community over one Massively artilce. Eliot (the writer of the Nexus Telegraph) has been highly critical of WildStar regarding several decisions, especially the payment model. If Carbine suddenly made kneejerk reacitons based on Massively (or any media) articles, certainly they wouldn't have used breast size as the one issue to go "o jesus, we need to fix naow!"
Third, the idea of the over-sexualization of female models is a long running discussion throughout the MMO community. WildStar isn't suddenly going all politically correct, and the reduction of the forementioned breast sizes aren't proof that WildStar is suddenly changing it's tune. The female models are mostly still quite sexy (which has been this way since we've seen any art assets released). It's the style of the artists and that won't change.
Fourth, and finally: if the writer of the article didn't want boobs to be the #1 discussed subject in this thread, he shouldn't have put it in the title since that's all 90% of the posters read anyway.
I do not have access to the forums per se so do not worry about it.
Nothing I do breaks the NDA.
Look I didn't say anything about the characters not looking sexy anymore, I'm saying they don't look good from a technical design perspective, and that the changes they made were minimal, and the whole job is something that can be easily and quickly done.
They had those models for years, and all this while they were perfectly fine, they are still technically perfect within the rest of the game. Suddenly they change them though, and just days after it became the hot topic? One article is just an article for sure maybe they had toyed with the concept before, but the topic was already being discussed and the extra attention brought by that article could have been influential as well in having them released now with the latest patch in their current form, the timing is very fitting and the very mediocre job they did with the new models makes it something that appears rushed if that was the case.
Yes, those were the female models for years but Carbine has been letting in new waves of testers, all with equal views and feedback. A similar example of a change during development: It was a tab-target game for years as well (up to 2011 at least at Gamescom). Other examples: questing changes, removal of flying mounts, addition of "server only" LFG system. Carbine has a history of listening to feedback and making changes. As far as female breasts are concerned, WildStar's are all still big. However, it has become the discussion of this entire thread and there is so much more content this covers.
The most troubling things are that they told us this is what they always wanted them to look, and that sounds so ridiculous, because it's so clear how bad they are and how little polish and work they really got, and they had not said a word about it before now, instead they had mentioned some of body options which now they say are too hard to implement so they will have to wait for some indeterminate future, they are just a maybe.
If you do not have beta fourm access, how do you know that this subject hasn't been discussed until now? There have been several public blogs and articles by bloggers and press, discussing this topic as well. Now, Carbine has had a history of listening to feedback and making changes. Carbine has never had a "screw you, this is how they look" attitude about anything. This change actually fits with the common pattern of how they operate - they listen, they consider and they adjust. If this is a problem, don't follow or play a Carbine game.
So the game ends with a mediocre change that let's be honest here, is not really what most people wanted when they asked for options, it isn't even a good thing to give to those that wanted smaller breasts because they
barely changed them, they are mostly a resize of the old ones.
And it looks rushed, hart to tell for sure if it was rushed but it seems that way and even if it wasn't then the negative feedback on this matter is important, they used to be very open to feedback, the devs are listening right? But what about now? Not now.
didn't do such a good job with them compared to their normal standards.
This is a matter of opinion plus, the game isn't in final. Why judge a game in closed beta on lack of art polish? Anything released by Press covering levels 1-15 are supposed to indicate that WildStar is in closed beta and content is subject to change. Hell, if Carbine was in a "rush" to do anything, they wouldn't have delayed their game. The game's been in development since 2005 - it's hilarious to say anything they do is "rushed".
Based on their posts about sldiers, they say they tried but couldn't get them for launch, looks like they wanted to deliver some smaller sized options, so basically choices, which would honestly be amazing, choices like that are great and no one with a fair judgement could oppose them, so of course they would be awesome, it's really what many fans were asking. But implementing them needed more work than they expected so they put that in the backburner for now.
I agree 100% sliders would be awesome. This is why they want to put them in - most people want to see them. As you previously mentioned, they shouldn't rush changes and get them right. The post-launch expectation is better than a quick fix to get it in before launch and have tons of clipping or other issues. As a happy medium, in the meantime - a reduction of TWO races female breasts were put in. This is a reasonable compromise.
So far that's reasonable but they the way they seem to be dishonest is wrong and their reaction to legitimate feedback that happened to be negative was not cool and they have given no one any explanation as to why they cannot release both, the new model if they really think they look good enough and the old models that were fine for years before? They are in favor of sliders but the time requirement makes it hard to release with the game, but they do like the options, and they have two different sets of designs, that's the choice the people's asking for right there, why have they said nothing about that possibility?
As I mentioned, other things that were fine years before: tab targeting, old quest system, flying mounts, limited exeterior housing decoration, etc. Carbine has a history of listening to feedback and making changes, and this change fits with that philosophy. Outside of the core purpose of the game, minor changes will continue to happen - even if something was "fine" last year.
I'm not a monster here, I just want to know what's going on, I care about the game, and I liked Carbine being honest and down to earth before, why can't they be like that with us now and listen? That's not an unreasonable thing to want.
I can tell you care about WildStar, and this is a good thing. A healthy discussion never hurt anybody. We can agree to disagree, but I would be careful accusing Carbine of suddenly becoming a different company because they reduce HUGE boobs to just BIG boobs.
I appreciate your points. My responses are in yellow and I somehow broke the quotes up a bit, but hopefully my thoughts come across ok.
I repeat, it's not just a problem as simple as big but not huge. It's about a an odd course of action.
The design that was fine for the artists and accepted by most fans suddenly got a mediocre new design. Just during the hot moment of the topioc, only the two most similar races so far. Too odd.
And regarding the actual feedback on this matter, it was for the most part in favor of options, not this.
It is another problem, how rushed it looks and how clueless it seems from them, how lacking in direction and focus to suddenly release something that looks so unfinished and meanwhile go on a full comment blackout on the subject. The moderation that also felt very unfair didn't help either.
And feedback after the new patch was mostly negative towards the change.
This is even something they are aware of, but their CM's (scooter) very easily dismissed. Going as far as acknowledging that the majority was not in favor of how they handled it but still dismissing all that feedback. Over and over.
The few posts about it dismissed it, their general silence dismissed it, it all feels bad.
You say it was discussed, but it was not really talked about from them, only from other people.
Another reason that made this so sudden and hard to swallow.
The game has been changing for sure but most of those changes came in two ways.
Either was Carbine's idea, or it was suggested by the majority of fans.
This is something they claimed once was their idea but doesn't really fit into that, and it was not suggested by almost anyone. The main suggestion was to have choice. Some people didn't care either way, and many wanted to have a choice for smaller breasts, but only a few really wanted to get rid of the bigger sizes altogether.
So now they are seeing people against the change, and they have an easy way out if they use both models in the game and let people choose. That's the feedback, but are they listening ? Do they?
Hard to tell because they are not talking about it. This is something recent so it's reasonable to give them some time before they comment on it, but the silence is worrying.
You mean the removal of choices and the flat out banning and censuring of anyone that simply states they like the old designs better then the new sizes on their official forums?
If they are making those statements in a brand new thread, then yes good for them for censoring and banning. People can make their statements in the open thread, they don't need to be special snowflakes and make new attention seeking threads.
Follow the forum rules and maybe they wont be censored or banned.
They closed the thread that was about it, people tried to make another thread to give their feedback.
The CM's are there to help the community, they should have directed them to the right thread and condensed the discussion there instead of deleting threads and threatening people with bans for merely mentioning anything about breasts or sliders.
First, Sunnymash, if you are claming to have access to the official forums you are violating the NDA since beta testers aren't allowed to reveal their participation (fact). If you are not in the beta, then you are only spreading rumor since there is no other evidence that this is true.
Second, you're the only one remotely taking the position that Carbine has somehow gone ogre with their community over one Massively artilce. Eliot (the writer of the Nexus Telegraph) has been highly critical of WildStar regarding several decisions, especially the payment model. If Carbine suddenly made kneejerk reacitons based on Massively (or any media) articles, certainly they wouldn't have used breast size as the one issue to go "o jesus, we need to fix naow!"
Third, the idea of the over-sexualization of female models is a long running discussion throughout the MMO community. WildStar isn't suddenly going all politically correct, and the reduction of the forementioned breast sizes aren't proof that WildStar is suddenly changing it's tune. The female models are mostly still quite sexy (which has been this way since we've seen any art assets released). It's the style of the artists and that won't change.
Fourth, and finally: if the writer of the article didn't want boobs to be the #1 discussed subject in this thread, he shouldn't have put it in the title since that's all 90% of the posters read anyway.
I do not have access to the forums per se so do not worry about it.
Nothing I do breaks the NDA.
Look I didn't say anything about the characters not looking sexy anymore, I'm saying they don't look good from a technical design perspective, and that the changes they made were minimal, and the whole job is something that can be easily and quickly done.
They had those models for years, and all this while they were perfectly fine, they are still technically perfect within the rest of the game. Suddenly they change them though, and just days after it became the hot topic? One article is just an article for sure maybe they had toyed with the concept before, but the topic was already being discussed and the extra attention brought by that article could have been influential as well in having them released now with the latest patch in their current form, the timing is very fitting and the very mediocre job they did with the new models makes it something that appears rushed if that was the case.
Yes, those were the female models for years but Carbine has been letting in new waves of testers, all with equal views and feedback. A similar example of a change during development: It was a tab-target game for years as well (up to 2011 at least at Gamescom). Other examples: questing changes, removal of flying mounts, addition of "server only" LFG system. Carbine has a history of listening to feedback and making changes. As far as female breasts are concerned, WildStar's are all still big. However, it has become the discussion of this entire thread and there is so much more content this covers.
The most troubling things are that they told us this is what they always wanted them to look, and that sounds so ridiculous, because it's so clear how bad they are and how little polish and work they really got, and they had not said a word about it before now, instead they had mentioned some of body options which now they say are too hard to implement so they will have to wait for some indeterminate future, they are just a maybe.
If you do not have beta fourm access, how do you know that this subject hasn't been discussed until now? There have been several public blogs and articles by bloggers and press, discussing this topic as well. Now, Carbine has had a history of listening to feedback and making changes. Carbine has never had a "screw you, this is how they look" attitude about anything. This change actually fits with the common pattern of how they operate - they listen, they consider and they adjust. If this is a problem, don't follow or play a Carbine game.
So the game ends with a mediocre change that let's be honest here, is not really what most people wanted when they asked for options, it isn't even a good thing to give to those that wanted smaller breasts because they
barely changed them, they are mostly a resize of the old ones.
And it looks rushed, hart to tell for sure if it was rushed but it seems that way and even if it wasn't then the negative feedback on this matter is important, they used to be very open to feedback, the devs are listening right? But what about now? Not now.
didn't do such a good job with them compared to their normal standards.
This is a matter of opinion plus, the game isn't in final. Why judge a game in closed beta on lack of art polish? Anything released by Press covering levels 1-15 are supposed to indicate that WildStar is in closed beta and content is subject to change. Hell, if Carbine was in a "rush" to do anything, they wouldn't have delayed their game. The game's been in development since 2005 - it's hilarious to say anything they do is "rushed".
Based on their posts about sldiers, they say they tried but couldn't get them for launch, looks like they wanted to deliver some smaller sized options, so basically choices, which would honestly be amazing, choices like that are great and no one with a fair judgement could oppose them, so of course they would be awesome, it's really what many fans were asking. But implementing them needed more work than they expected so they put that in the backburner for now.
I agree 100% sliders would be awesome. This is why they want to put them in - most people want to see them. As you previously mentioned, they shouldn't rush changes and get them right. The post-launch expectation is better than a quick fix to get it in before launch and have tons of clipping or other issues. As a happy medium, in the meantime - a reduction of TWO races female breasts were put in. This is a reasonable compromise.
So far that's reasonable but they the way they seem to be dishonest is wrong and their reaction to legitimate feedback that happened to be negative was not cool and they have given no one any explanation as to why they cannot release both, the new model if they really think they look good enough and the old models that were fine for years before? They are in favor of sliders but the time requirement makes it hard to release with the game, but they do like the options, and they have two different sets of designs, that's the choice the people's asking for right there, why have they said nothing about that possibility?
As I mentioned, other things that were fine years before: tab targeting, old quest system, flying mounts, limited exeterior housing decoration, etc. Carbine has a history of listening to feedback and making changes, and this change fits with that philosophy. Outside of the core purpose of the game, minor changes will continue to happen - even if something was "fine" last year.
I'm not a monster here, I just want to know what's going on, I care about the game, and I liked Carbine being honest and down to earth before, why can't they be like that with us now and listen? That's not an unreasonable thing to want.
I can tell you care about WildStar, and this is a good thing. A healthy discussion never hurt anybody. We can agree to disagree, but I would be careful accusing Carbine of suddenly becoming a different company because they reduce HUGE boobs to just BIG boobs.
I appreciate your points. My responses are in yellow and I somehow broke the quotes up a bit, but hopefully my thoughts come across ok.
I repeat, it's not just a problem as simple as big but not huge. It's about a an odd course of action.
An "odd" course of action to you sure looks like the normal process with any company: defend what you have until a decision to change something happens and then explain why it was a good change. This is normal and not "odd" at all.
And, again, I'll repeat myself: feedback at times changes things. Not everyone will like the change - if you'll leave a game over going from DD to CC size breasts, that's your perogative.
The design that was fine for the artists and accepted by most fans suddenly got a mediocre new design. Just during the hot moment of the topioc, only the two most similar races so far. Too odd.
Are you suggesting that the core design of WildStar centers around boob size?
And regarding the actual feedback on this matter, it was for the most part in favor of options, not this.
An opinion you are entitled to, for sure.
It is another problem, how rushed it looks and how clueless it seems from them, how lacking in direction and focus to suddenly release something that looks so unfinished and meanwhile go on a full comment blackout on the subject. The moderation that also felt very unfair didn't help either.
You ignored my point and went right back into this whole "rushed" nonsense. It's not even complete. You can't rush something that's not even released yet. It's in CLOSED beta. This is why they should have never let the press cover levels 1-15. Content is not complete.
And feedback after the new patch was mostly negative towards the change.
If you don't have access to the beta, how do you know what the majority thinks?
This is even something they are aware of, but their CM's (scooter) very easily dismissed. Going as far as acknowledging that the majority was not in favor of how they handled it but still dismissing all that feedback. Over and over.
Where did Scooter dismiss these arguments? OH, the forums you don't have access to. Scooter isn't even making the game so the assertion that a community manager controls the direction of the game is the funniest thing I've read all morning. Stop believing the kneejerk reactions of some butthurt forum poster in a thread that had long run it's course and was lowering itself to personal attacks and trolling. You are better than this.
The few posts about it dismissed it, their general silence dismissed it, it all feels bad.
You say it was discussed, but it was not really talked about from them, only from other people.
How do you know this if you aren't in beta or are on the beta forums?
Another reason that made this so sudden and hard to swallow.
The game has been changing for sure but most of those changes came in two ways.
Either was Carbine's idea, or it was suggested by the majority of fans.
Where else would ideas come from?
This is something they claimed once was their idea but doesn't really fit into that, and it was not suggested by almost anyone. The main suggestion was to have choice. Some people didn't care either way, and many wanted to have a choice for smaller breasts, but only a few really wanted to get rid of the bigger sizes altogether.
Choice is coming, as we've mentioned. Sounds like you're just wanting to complain now, which is your right, for sure. Instead of leaving the breasts of Two (only 2, granok boobies are still huge boulders) at max size, they went for medium as a compromise until the sliders are built. Sounds fair to me.
So now they are seeing people against the change, and they have an easy way out if they use both models in the game and let people choose. That's the feedback, but are they listening ? Do they?
They don't have to use both models, they're building a slider.
Hard to tell because they are not talking about it. This is something recent so it's reasonable to give them some time before they comment on it, but the silence is worrying.
They aren't?
My responses in Yellow. We can agree to disagree if you still think that a studio that has always made changes based on feedback has suddenly changed who they are over the fact that they made changes based on feedback. And for someone who claims not to be in beta or have beta access continues to quote from the beta forums. Hmmm.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
As for the more popular topic on breast size reduction the "various sources" that comprise of two articles do not have a... robust argument to say the least. Sadly, it is ignorant wackos like the two writers of these articles that actually undermine the feminist movement. I have not seen one example where WildStar is sexist is so far. Those who actually support those articles confuse me, I mean... just look at the sides of this website you're currently viewing (your mileage may vary). I'm not going to rant on further about the two writers, I just wanted to put this mention in because I feel it's a shame how such uneducated cries of "Sexist!" can actually turn the whole movement into being perceived like the "boy who cried wolf" situation.
I'll just leave this concise and more educated comment made on one of those articles by another reader:
rosierappaport
Developers have to take all of this into account when making every little decision about what they do. Make the female characters "realistic" and critics say the characters don't look good. Plain and simple. Make them look artistically idealized and other critics say that their personal body types aren't adequately represented.
IMO Yes, "Passive sexism" is bad, but this is not even close to "passive sexism". This is Idealization of body types. (BTW both genders are idealized in Wildstar). Artists have been doing that since man could drag a stick through the mud. Google Venus of Willendorf if you wonder what I mean. Check out Venus de Milo. The Greeks weren't lining up to sculpt the normal looking chicks. Check out Peter Paul Rubens to see what the ideal female form was in the Netherlands in the mid 1600s. Artists have been in love with the female form from the beginning. Why? Because the female form is beautiful and intriguing. Trends within these ideals come and go, from stick insect skinny to pink and rotund.
Source: I'm a chick and a game developer
I personally think Carbine did the breast size reduction as an artistic change regarding aesthetics. If they really caved in to be "politically correct" then that's a shame and doesn't bode well for future content for a few other areas, but I personally don't think that's the case.
Anyhow, if they really do give choices later on the whole matter will be taken care of. Everyone gets what they want and if they see another player with a female character with chest features they don't exactly approve of, they'll get to view them with whatever prejudice they want On a more serious note just because people prefer bigger breasts to look at doesn't make them a kid in their puberty just like how someone who doesn't like big breasts are not necessarily gay (as if that's an insult). I hope Carbine makes selections available soon after release (either several preset body choices or sliders) to put the matter to rest.
You mean the removal of choices and the flat out banning and censuring of anyone that simply states they like the old designs better then the new sizes on their official forums?
If they are making those statements in a brand new thread, then yes good for them for censoring and banning. People can make their statements in the open thread, they don't need to be special snowflakes and make new attention seeking threads.
Follow the forum rules and maybe they wont be censored or banned.
They closed the thread that was about it, people tried to make another thread to give their feedback.
The CM's are there to help the community, they should have directed them to the right thread and condensed the discussion there instead of deleting threads and threatening people with bans for merely mentioning anything about breasts or sliders.
First, Sunnymash, if you are claming to have access to the official forums you are violating the NDA since beta testers aren't allowed to reveal their participation (fact). If you are not in the beta, then you are only spreading rumor since there is no other evidence that this is true.
Second, you're the only one remotely taking the position that Carbine has somehow gone ogre with their community over one Massively artilce. Eliot (the writer of the Nexus Telegraph) has been highly critical of WildStar regarding several decisions, especially the payment model. If Carbine suddenly made kneejerk reacitons based on Massively (or any media) articles, certainly they wouldn't have used breast size as the one issue to go "o jesus, we need to fix naow!"
Third, the idea of the over-sexualization of female models is a long running discussion throughout the MMO community. WildStar isn't suddenly going all politically correct, and the reduction of the forementioned breast sizes aren't proof that WildStar is suddenly changing it's tune. The female models are mostly still quite sexy (which has been this way since we've seen any art assets released). It's the style of the artists and that won't change.
Fourth, and finally: if the writer of the article didn't want boobs to be the #1 discussed subject in this thread, he shouldn't have put it in the title since that's all 90% of the posters read anyway.
I do not have access to the forums per se so do not worry about it.
Nothing I do breaks the NDA.
Look I didn't say anything about the characters not looking sexy anymore, I'm saying they don't look good from a technical design perspective, and that the changes they made were minimal, and the whole job is something that can be easily and quickly done.
They had those models for years, and all this while they were perfectly fine, they are still technically perfect within the rest of the game. Suddenly they change them though, and just days after it became the hot topic? One article is just an article for sure maybe they had toyed with the concept before, but the topic was already being discussed and the extra attention brought by that article could have been influential as well in having them released now with the latest patch in their current form, the timing is very fitting and the very mediocre job they did with the new models makes it something that appears rushed if that was the case.
Yes, those were the female models for years but Carbine has been letting in new waves of testers, all with equal views and feedback. A similar example of a change during development: It was a tab-target game for years as well (up to 2011 at least at Gamescom). Other examples: questing changes, removal of flying mounts, addition of "server only" LFG system. Carbine has a history of listening to feedback and making changes. As far as female breasts are concerned, WildStar's are all still big. However, it has become the discussion of this entire thread and there is so much more content this covers.
The most troubling things are that they told us this is what they always wanted them to look, and that sounds so ridiculous, because it's so clear how bad they are and how little polish and work they really got, and they had not said a word about it before now, instead they had mentioned some of body options which now they say are too hard to implement so they will have to wait for some indeterminate future, they are just a maybe.
If you do not have beta fourm access, how do you know that this subject hasn't been discussed until now? There have been several public blogs and articles by bloggers and press, discussing this topic as well. Now, Carbine has had a history of listening to feedback and making changes. Carbine has never had a "screw you, this is how they look" attitude about anything. This change actually fits with the common pattern of how they operate - they listen, they consider and they adjust. If this is a problem, don't follow or play a Carbine game.
So the game ends with a mediocre change that let's be honest here, is not really what most people wanted when they asked for options, it isn't even a good thing to give to those that wanted smaller breasts because they
barely changed them, they are mostly a resize of the old ones.
And it looks rushed, hart to tell for sure if it was rushed but it seems that way and even if it wasn't then the negative feedback on this matter is important, they used to be very open to feedback, the devs are listening right? But what about now? Not now.
didn't do such a good job with them compared to their normal standards.
This is a matter of opinion plus, the game isn't in final. Why judge a game in closed beta on lack of art polish? Anything released by Press covering levels 1-15 are supposed to indicate that WildStar is in closed beta and content is subject to change. Hell, if Carbine was in a "rush" to do anything, they wouldn't have delayed their game. The game's been in development since 2005 - it's hilarious to say anything they do is "rushed".
Based on their posts about sldiers, they say they tried but couldn't get them for launch, looks like they wanted to deliver some smaller sized options, so basically choices, which would honestly be amazing, choices like that are great and no one with a fair judgement could oppose them, so of course they would be awesome, it's really what many fans were asking. But implementing them needed more work than they expected so they put that in the backburner for now.
I agree 100% sliders would be awesome. This is why they want to put them in - most people want to see them. As you previously mentioned, they shouldn't rush changes and get them right. The post-launch expectation is better than a quick fix to get it in before launch and have tons of clipping or other issues. As a happy medium, in the meantime - a reduction of TWO races female breasts were put in. This is a reasonable compromise.
So far that's reasonable but they the way they seem to be dishonest is wrong and their reaction to legitimate feedback that happened to be negative was not cool and they have given no one any explanation as to why they cannot release both, the new model if they really think they look good enough and the old models that were fine for years before? They are in favor of sliders but the time requirement makes it hard to release with the game, but they do like the options, and they have two different sets of designs, that's the choice the people's asking for right there, why have they said nothing about that possibility?
As I mentioned, other things that were fine years before: tab targeting, old quest system, flying mounts, limited exeterior housing decoration, etc. Carbine has a history of listening to feedback and making changes, and this change fits with that philosophy. Outside of the core purpose of the game, minor changes will continue to happen - even if something was "fine" last year.
I'm not a monster here, I just want to know what's going on, I care about the game, and I liked Carbine being honest and down to earth before, why can't they be like that with us now and listen? That's not an unreasonable thing to want.
I can tell you care about WildStar, and this is a good thing. A healthy discussion never hurt anybody. We can agree to disagree, but I would be careful accusing Carbine of suddenly becoming a different company because they reduce HUGE boobs to just BIG boobs.
I appreciate your points. My responses are in yellow and I somehow broke the quotes up a bit, but hopefully my thoughts come across ok.
I repeat, it's not just a problem as simple as big but not huge. It's about a an odd course of action.
An "odd" course of action to you sure looks like the normal process with any company: defend what you have until a decision to change something happens and then explain why it was a good change. This is normal and not "odd" at all.
And, again, I'll repeat myself: feedback at times changes things. Not everyone will like the change - if you'll leave a game over going from DD to CC size breasts, that's your perogative.
The design that was fine for the artists and accepted by most fans suddenly got a mediocre new design. Just during the hot moment of the topioc, only the two most similar races so far. Too odd.
Are you suggesting that the core design of WildStar centers around boob size?
And regarding the actual feedback on this matter, it was for the most part in favor of options, not this.
An opinion you are entitled to, for sure.
It is another problem, how rushed it looks and how clueless it seems from them, how lacking in direction and focus to suddenly release something that looks so unfinished and meanwhile go on a full comment blackout on the subject. The moderation that also felt very unfair didn't help either.
You ignored my point and went right back into this whole "rushed" nonsense. It's not even complete. You can't rush something that's not even released yet. It's in CLOSED beta. This is why they should have never let the press cover levels 1-15. Content is not complete.
And feedback after the new patch was mostly negative towards the change.
If you don't have access to the beta, how do you know what the majority thinks?
This is even something they are aware of, but their CM's (scooter) very easily dismissed. Going as far as acknowledging that the majority was not in favor of how they handled it but still dismissing all that feedback. Over and over.
Where did Scooter dismiss these arguments? OH, the forums you don't have access to. Scooter isn't even making the game so the assertion that a community manager controls the direction of the game is the funniest thing I've read all morning. Stop believing the kneejerk reactions of some butthurt forum poster in a thread that had long run it's course and was lowering itself to personal attacks and trolling. You are better than this.
The few posts about it dismissed it, their general silence dismissed it, it all feels bad.
You say it was discussed, but it was not really talked about from them, only from other people.
How do you know this if you aren't in beta or are on the beta forums?
Another reason that made this so sudden and hard to swallow.
The game has been changing for sure but most of those changes came in two ways.
Either was Carbine's idea, or it was suggested by the majority of fans.
Where else would ideas come from?
This is something they claimed once was their idea but doesn't really fit into that, and it was not suggested by almost anyone. The main suggestion was to have choice. Some people didn't care either way, and many wanted to have a choice for smaller breasts, but only a few really wanted to get rid of the bigger sizes altogether.
Choice is coming, as we've mentioned. Sounds like you're just wanting to complain now, which is your right, for sure. Instead of leaving the breasts of Two (only 2, granok boobies are still huge boulders) at max size, they went for medium as a compromise until the sliders are built. Sounds fair to me.
So now they are seeing people against the change, and they have an easy way out if they use both models in the game and let people choose. That's the feedback, but are they listening ? Do they?
They don't have to use both models, they're building a slider.
Hard to tell because they are not talking about it. This is something recent so it's reasonable to give them some time before they comment on it, but the silence is worrying.
They aren't?
We can agree to disagree if you still think that a studio that has always made changes based on feedback has suddenly changed who they are over the fact that they made changes based on feedback. And for someone who claims not to be in beta or have beta access continues to quote from the beta forums. Hmmm.
You said I ignore you but right now I feel like repeating myself a lot.
If you don't want to see how odd this all is, or how rushed and bad the models are, and don't care that they are disregarding the feedback about it that is your prerogative.
That it is all still there.
The difference between the generalized feedback that drives most of the progress and this situation is also something you didn't get. The majority of feedback was "the breasts are fine, but we want more choice" and after the patch it was" this does not look right, and where are the choices ?"
That's stuff I'm telling you got ignored and even dismissed. I don't know if reposting beta posts is against the NDA so I won't give you a screenshot of it here but you can probably find it out there because I've seen it a lot.
Just go check all that.
You think they are building a slider?
I would like to believe that but unfortunately what they said is that they tried building it once, but they had clipping issues with the animations so they couldn't make them work. So they will not be in the game for the moment, but "we'll see " in the future.
It's not a confirmation of anything. It doesn't tell us that they are still working on it, or what they are working on, which options for who in what way, and it doesn't give us any guarantees.
That's odd too, considering that they have two models now to give people as choices, the old and new.
That's something they should release at the very least, if they can't give us some better form of options.
That happy medium isn't really making a lot of people happy.
It's getting late so just to make it clear for now, the sliders are not coming. The only thing they confirmed is that they tried once, they didn't get them to work, and they may try to implement them again someday.
So right now they can either deliver the two designs they have, which would be the best thing they could do for their community in general, it would be the best next thing to sliders right now, or they can go for only one model and make an unnecessary thing that is not making the game any favours.
You mean the removal of choices and the flat out banning and censuring of anyone that simply states they like the old designs better then the new sizes on their official forums?
If they are making those statements in a brand new thread, then yes good for them for censoring and banning. People can make their statements in the open thread, they don't need to be special snowflakes and make new attention seeking threads.
Follow the forum rules and maybe they wont be censored or banned.
They closed the thread that was about it, people tried to make another thread to give their feedback.
The CM's are there to help the community, they should have directed them to the right thread and condensed the discussion there instead of deleting threads and threatening people with bans for merely mentioning anything about breasts or sliders.
First, Sunnymash, if you are claming to have access to the official forums you are violating the NDA since beta testers aren't allowed to reveal their participation (fact). If you are not in the beta, then you are only spreading rumor since there is no other evidence that this is true.
Second, you're the only one remotely taking the position that Carbine has somehow gone ogre with their community over one Massively artilce. Eliot (the writer of the Nexus Telegraph) has been highly critical of WildStar regarding several decisions, especially the payment model. If Carbine suddenly made kneejerk reacitons based on Massively (or any media) articles, certainly they wouldn't have used breast size as the one issue to go "o jesus, we need to fix naow!"
Third, the idea of the over-sexualization of female models is a long running discussion throughout the MMO community. WildStar isn't suddenly going all politically correct, and the reduction of the forementioned breast sizes aren't proof that WildStar is suddenly changing it's tune. The female models are mostly still quite sexy (which has been this way since we've seen any art assets released). It's the style of the artists and that won't change.
Fourth, and finally: if the writer of the article didn't want boobs to be the #1 discussed subject in this thread, he shouldn't have put it in the title since that's all 90% of the posters read anyway.
I do not have access to the forums per se so do not worry about it.
Nothing I do breaks the NDA.
Look I didn't say anything about the characters not looking sexy anymore, I'm saying they don't look good from a technical design perspective, and that the changes they made were minimal, and the whole job is something that can be easily and quickly done.
They had those models for years, and all this while they were perfectly fine, they are still technically perfect within the rest of the game. Suddenly they change them though, and just days after it became the hot topic? One article is just an article for sure maybe they had toyed with the concept before, but the topic was already being discussed and the extra attention brought by that article could have been influential as well in having them released now with the latest patch in their current form, the timing is very fitting and the very mediocre job they did with the new models makes it something that appears rushed if that was the case.
Yes, those were the female models for years but Carbine has been letting in new waves of testers, all with equal views and feedback. A similar example of a change during development: It was a tab-target game for years as well (up to 2011 at least at Gamescom). Other examples: questing changes, removal of flying mounts, addition of "server only" LFG system. Carbine has a history of listening to feedback and making changes. As far as female breasts are concerned, WildStar's are all still big. However, it has become the discussion of this entire thread and there is so much more content this covers.
The most troubling things are that they told us this is what they always wanted them to look, and that sounds so ridiculous, because it's so clear how bad they are and how little polish and work they really got, and they had not said a word about it before now, instead they had mentioned some of body options which now they say are too hard to implement so they will have to wait for some indeterminate future, they are just a maybe.
If you do not have beta fourm access, how do you know that this subject hasn't been discussed until now? There have been several public blogs and articles by bloggers and press, discussing this topic as well. Now, Carbine has had a history of listening to feedback and making changes. Carbine has never had a "screw you, this is how they look" attitude about anything. This change actually fits with the common pattern of how they operate - they listen, they consider and they adjust. If this is a problem, don't follow or play a Carbine game.
So the game ends with a mediocre change that let's be honest here, is not really what most people wanted when they asked for options, it isn't even a good thing to give to those that wanted smaller breasts because they
barely changed them, they are mostly a resize of the old ones.
And it looks rushed, hart to tell for sure if it was rushed but it seems that way and even if it wasn't then the negative feedback on this matter is important, they used to be very open to feedback, the devs are listening right? But what about now? Not now.
didn't do such a good job with them compared to their normal standards.
This is a matter of opinion plus, the game isn't in final. Why judge a game in closed beta on lack of art polish? Anything released by Press covering levels 1-15 are supposed to indicate that WildStar is in closed beta and content is subject to change. Hell, if Carbine was in a "rush" to do anything, they wouldn't have delayed their game. The game's been in development since 2005 - it's hilarious to say anything they do is "rushed".
Based on their posts about sldiers, they say they tried but couldn't get them for launch, looks like they wanted to deliver some smaller sized options, so basically choices, which would honestly be amazing, choices like that are great and no one with a fair judgement could oppose them, so of course they would be awesome, it's really what many fans were asking. But implementing them needed more work than they expected so they put that in the backburner for now.
I agree 100% sliders would be awesome. This is why they want to put them in - most people want to see them. As you previously mentioned, they shouldn't rush changes and get them right. The post-launch expectation is better than a quick fix to get it in before launch and have tons of clipping or other issues. As a happy medium, in the meantime - a reduction of TWO races female breasts were put in. This is a reasonable compromise.
So far that's reasonable but they the way they seem to be dishonest is wrong and their reaction to legitimate feedback that happened to be negative was not cool and they have given no one any explanation as to why they cannot release both, the new model if they really think they look good enough and the old models that were fine for years before? They are in favor of sliders but the time requirement makes it hard to release with the game, but they do like the options, and they have two different sets of designs, that's the choice the people's asking for right there, why have they said nothing about that possibility?
As I mentioned, other things that were fine years before: tab targeting, old quest system, flying mounts, limited exeterior housing decoration, etc. Carbine has a history of listening to feedback and making changes, and this change fits with that philosophy. Outside of the core purpose of the game, minor changes will continue to happen - even if something was "fine" last year.
I'm not a monster here, I just want to know what's going on, I care about the game, and I liked Carbine being honest and down to earth before, why can't they be like that with us now and listen? That's not an unreasonable thing to want.
I can tell you care about WildStar, and this is a good thing. A healthy discussion never hurt anybody. We can agree to disagree, but I would be careful accusing Carbine of suddenly becoming a different company because they reduce HUGE boobs to just BIG boobs.
I appreciate your points. My responses are in yellow and I somehow broke the quotes up a bit, but hopefully my thoughts come across ok.
I repeat, it's not just a problem as simple as big but not huge. It's about a an odd course of action.
An "odd" course of action to you sure looks like the normal process with any company: defend what you have until a decision to change something happens and then explain why it was a good change. This is normal and not "odd" at all.
And, again, I'll repeat myself: feedback at times changes things. Not everyone will like the change - if you'll leave a game over going from DD to CC size breasts, that's your perogative.
The design that was fine for the artists and accepted by most fans suddenly got a mediocre new design. Just during the hot moment of the topioc, only the two most similar races so far. Too odd.
Are you suggesting that the core design of WildStar centers around boob size?
And regarding the actual feedback on this matter, it was for the most part in favor of options, not this.
An opinion you are entitled to, for sure.
It is another problem, how rushed it looks and how clueless it seems from them, how lacking in direction and focus to suddenly release something that looks so unfinished and meanwhile go on a full comment blackout on the subject. The moderation that also felt very unfair didn't help either.
You ignored my point and went right back into this whole "rushed" nonsense. It's not even complete. You can't rush something that's not even released yet. It's in CLOSED beta. This is why they should have never let the press cover levels 1-15. Content is not complete.
And feedback after the new patch was mostly negative towards the change.
If you don't have access to the beta, how do you know what the majority thinks?
This is even something they are aware of, but their CM's (scooter) very easily dismissed. Going as far as acknowledging that the majority was not in favor of how they handled it but still dismissing all that feedback. Over and over.
Where did Scooter dismiss these arguments? OH, the forums you don't have access to. Scooter isn't even making the game so the assertion that a community manager controls the direction of the game is the funniest thing I've read all morning. Stop believing the kneejerk reactions of some butthurt forum poster in a thread that had long run it's course and was lowering itself to personal attacks and trolling. You are better than this.
The few posts about it dismissed it, their general silence dismissed it, it all feels bad.
You say it was discussed, but it was not really talked about from them, only from other people.
How do you know this if you aren't in beta or are on the beta forums?
Another reason that made this so sudden and hard to swallow.
The game has been changing for sure but most of those changes came in two ways.
Either was Carbine's idea, or it was suggested by the majority of fans.
Where else would ideas come from?
This is something they claimed once was their idea but doesn't really fit into that, and it was not suggested by almost anyone. The main suggestion was to have choice. Some people didn't care either way, and many wanted to have a choice for smaller breasts, but only a few really wanted to get rid of the bigger sizes altogether.
Choice is coming, as we've mentioned. Sounds like you're just wanting to complain now, which is your right, for sure. Instead of leaving the breasts of Two (only 2, granok boobies are still huge boulders) at max size, they went for medium as a compromise until the sliders are built. Sounds fair to me.
So now they are seeing people against the change, and they have an easy way out if they use both models in the game and let people choose. That's the feedback, but are they listening ? Do they?
They don't have to use both models, they're building a slider.
Hard to tell because they are not talking about it. This is something recent so it's reasonable to give them some time before they comment on it, but the silence is worrying.
They aren't?
We can agree to disagree if you still think that a studio that has always made changes based on feedback has suddenly changed who they are over the fact that they made changes based on feedback. And for someone who claims not to be in beta or have beta access continues to quote from the beta forums. Hmmm.
You said I ignore you but right now I feel like repeating myself a lot.
If you don't want to see how odd this all is, or how rushed and bad the models are, and don't care that they are disregarding the feedback about it that is your prerogative.
You're right, Carbine reducing breast sizes, CM's moderating long threads featuring personal attacks and the devs changing things based on feedback proves that in a matter of three days they've ceased to be the same Company they've been since 2005. You win, well done.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
Comments
Exactly this, and I would imagine that they are closing threads because they have 1 thread open on the subject and want people to post in that, blizzard does this all the time on their forums.
Since it's beta, who knows if this was just thrown in as a test to see animation or clipping issues, but no......lets not give them that benefit, lets complain some more and play the "I won't buy the game unless you obey me" card, cause that's so mature...I'm glad they are closing threads and threatening to ban.
A huge wall of text for patch notes, a great article here that highlights everything, and the only thing people can focus on for 50 posts, is something like this, unbelievable.
Them feminazis be hating
If the breast reduction is significant then for some reason the small breasts will only encourages people and their anime fantasy.
While large breasts satisfy one hypnotic state of euphoria... the other is more for a just learning to walk, jumping off the walls eye ball popping gawking at anything remotely sexual with drool coming off their bib.
You cant win with large or small... so I guess they went medium... most likely trying to see this as a compromise.
Imo, large serves a purpose that promotes happiness as I have read in scholarly articles... so its more for science and the benefit of mankind.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
If they are making those statements in a brand new thread, then yes good for them for censoring and banning. People can make their statements in the open thread, they don't need to be special snowflakes and make new attention seeking threads.
Follow the forum rules and maybe they wont be censored or banned.
They closed the thread that was about it, people tried to make another thread to give their feedback.
The CM's are there to help the community, they should have directed them to the right thread and condensed the discussion there instead of deleting threads and threatening people with bans for merely mentioning anything about breasts or sliders.
Are you in the beta?
'Cuz if you are, it's pretty shitty of you to break the NDA and tell folks about all the things that you don't like.
Point of fact, they have NDAs specifically so that people like you don't come out and say 'Man, their quests suck' or 'Man, their game works like ass on my giant gaming rig' or 'man, their abilities aren't balanced in every situation I can think of'.
They don't want you to do that mainly because doing that harms the image of their game when it is in an extremely vulnerable place. No one has paid for their game yet. If you're a beta player, you got in for free, agreed to give your feedback to them (and not to share your feelings with the outside world), and you got to have a voice about what's cool and what's not in their game that actually gets listened to, because you're one of the few people who has actually experienced it in its rough, unfinished state.
There isn't even a fucking release date yet, man. Do you think betas aren't intended to fix exactly the kinds of problems you listed here? For some reason, are you convinced that the game is going to come out looking exactly like it does now, and not in an improved form with increased functionality and wider support?
Do you realize that the modeling team basically can only do modeling, and that they're probably listening to feedback from places you haven't been arsed to read? Do you think they made this change specifically because they decided it would be funny to stick it to all the fanboys who love big tits? It really sounds like they attacked you in some way, rather than just made a change to the game you agreed to help them test.
What if this change was made because some busybody at the ratings board has a stick up their ass about how big tits are allowed to be in video games, and threatened to make Wildstar an M-rated game? Which, by the way, is ridiculously bad for your sales and would be a serious blow to the developer. What if that's what happened, and you're fucking with them while they're over a barrel and trying to make a product that will actually keep food on their tables?
I don't know if you are a halfwit or if you just have a total lack of respect for the hard work and dedication of others, but on reflection, I'm not going to rule out a combination of the pair. Let me end on this: even if you are in the beta, and you know more than the rest of us combined as a result, you have demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt that you are a colossal waste of a key that could have gone to somebody who gives a rat's ass.
Edit: just to be absolutely clear, this rant is pointed squarely at Sunnymash.
Don't worry, I'm not in the beta. That I can assure you. I'm just around people that are. And as I have not signed anything I am not breaking anything.
In fact everything I am talking about is not breaking the NDA.
The NDA has been partially lifted for a long time, anything shown and shared in their official videos or by people with press accounts under level 15 is ok to share and discuss. It's ok to give feedback and opinions about it, good or negative, it's our right.
I wasn't implying that the game is going to be forever bad, just that it is not great right now either.
That was my entire point. The game is not good. It may be good someday and we really hoped it would be good, because Carbine seemed to be able to deliver something good, but now it appears like we were being given a wrong impression from them.
They have also officially stated that they do not care which Rating they get. Maybe they lied about that, but that is what they have said in the past, that an M rating is ok and they won't change their vision for the sake of a T.
That was something the old Carbine said, something that made me respect them and even admire them. It was dedication to their art.
I respect a lot the modelers, I'm an artist myself and I love every model that had been releasing so far, they all looked splendid. But that is not the case with the new models, I can easily tell from a technical point of view that they are an improvisation, a mediocre modification of the pre existing models that barely changed one part. I have no respect for them, you can disagree with that but it is my right to feel this way and express it. And an art model is more than the sum of its parts, it's a thing of its own, changing one part while leaving the rest the way it was may not work and in this case it sure didn't work well in the end, it doesn't look polished, the breasts don't look naturally smaller but they look like the same exaggerated stylish look of before but at a smaller size and it just ends looking even weirder and hints that it might have been a rushed job.
They say it wasn't a rushed job, but that sound suspicious, the timing and the results were all odd, and it's contradictive with how they where handling themselves before and everything we had come to know, was it a business suit calling that shot? how can we be sure of it when they aren't communicating well with the community?
I respected Carbine in the past, and respected what they had done, but right now I don't really feel they deserve that from me until they come straight with the fans and stop acting so much like a secretive and hard to trust sneaky corporation and start acting more like the Carbine we knew.
You can call me a half wit if you please, that's not going to change things.
First, Sunnymash, if you are claiming to have access to the official forums you are violating the NDA since beta testers aren't allowed to reveal their participation (fact). If you are not in the beta, then you are only spreading rumor since there is no other evidence that this is true. Even more hilarious is the fact that the article even states that sliders are most likely coming post launch so the point is moot.
Second, you're the only one remotely taking the position that Carbine has somehow gone ogre with their community over one Massively artilce. Eliot (the writer of the Nexus Telegraph) has been highly critical of WildStar regarding several decisions, especially the payment model. If Carbine suddenly made kneejerk reacitons based on Massively (or any media) articles, certainly they wouldn't have used breast size as the one issue to go "o jesus, we need to fix naow!"
Third, the idea of the over-sexualization of female models is a long running discussion throughout the MMO community. WildStar isn't suddenly going all politically correct, and the reduction of the forementioned breast sizes aren't proof that WildStar is suddenly changing it's tune. The female models are mostly still quite sexy (which has been this way since we've seen any art assets released). It's the style of the artists and that won't change.
Fourth, and finally: if the writer of the article didn't want boobs to be the #1 discussed subject in this thread, he shouldn't have put it in the title since that's all 90% of the posters read anyway.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
Sorry, misclick - double post.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
Breasts too big = No one drops the game for this.
Breasts too small = People will definately drop the game.
Stupid change so close to launch!
News flash: they're all still kinda big, just not bouncing on the ground or face anymore. I'm sure the Aurin and Human chiropractors are happy.
Sliders are coming post launch (possibly, according to Frost).
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
after reading this thread this scene from a movie came to my mind
I do not have access to the forums per se so do not worry about it.
Nothing I do breaks the NDA.
Look I didn't say anything about the characters not looking sexy anymore, I'm saying they don't look good from a technical design perspective, and that the changes they made were minimal, and the whole job is something that can be easily and quickly done.
They had those models for years, and all this while they were perfectly fine, they are still technically perfect within the rest of the game. Suddenly they change them though, and just days after it became the hot topic? One article is just an article for sure maybe they had toyed with the concept before, but the topic was already being discussed and the extra attention brought by that article could have been influential as well in having them released now with the latest patch in their current form, the timing is very fitting and the very mediocre job they did with the new models makes it something that appears rushed if that was the case.
The most troubling things are that they told us this is what they always wanted them to look, and that sounds so ridiculous, because it's so clear how bad they are and how little polish and work they really got, and they had not said a word about it before now, instead they had mentioned some of body options which now they say are too hard to implement so they will have to wait for some indeterminate future, they are just a maybe.
So the game ends with a mediocre change that let's be honest here, is not really what most people wanted when they asked for options, it isn't even a good thing to give to those that wanted smaller breasts because they didn't do such a good job with them compared to their normal standards.
And it looks rushed, hart to tell for sure if it was rushed but it seems that way and even if it wasn't then the negative feedback on this matter is important, they used to be very open to feedback, the devs are listening right? But what about now? Not now.
Based on their posts about sldiers, they say they tried but couldn't get them for launch, looks like they wanted to deliver some smaller sized options, so basically choices, which would honestly be amazing, choices like that are great and no one with a fair judgement could oppose them, so of course they would be awesome, it's really what many fans were asking. But implementing them needed more work than they expected so they put that in the backburner for now.
So far that's reasonable but they the way they seem to be dishonest is wrong and their reaction to legitimate feedback that happened to be negative was not cool and they have given no one any explanation as to why they cannot release both, the new model if they really think they look good enough and the old models that were fine for years before? They are in favor of sliders but the time requirement makes it hard to release with the game, but they do like the options, and they have two different sets of designs, that's the choice the people's asking for right there, why have they said nothing about that possibility?
I'm not a monster here, I just want to know what's going on, I care about the game, and I liked Carbine being honest and down to earth before, why can't they be like that with us now and listen? That's not an unreasonable thing to want.
They don't need chiropractors because they have no real body, it's a fantasy game in a fantastic style with fantastic things made of 1's and 0's generated pixels.
And the size is relative, that's really not the important thing, the uncalled reduction is a problem, the lack of real options is a problem.
They still look big even though the size they have is way smaller, that's wrong. They still look big but now it is more noticeable how unnatural they always were, they look less stylized but still fake which makes them look silly. It's all because they barely changed them, they are mostly a resize of the old ones.
And if sliders were really coming post launch it wouldn't be such a problem, they released some odd designs but maybe they had their reasons, they still gave people the options later.
But they are not confirming any sliders or any choices yet. The best thing we got is a maybe someday.
That's not the same as for sure later or post launch on the first big patch.
Frost was asked about fishing and body customization. He was able to say yes there will be fishing but after the game is launched on the first patch if possible. But with sliders all we got is is that maybe someday we'll see them.
That is not good communication.
I appreciate your points. My responses are in yellow and I somehow broke the quotes up a bit, but hopefully my thoughts come across ok.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
I came over to this article via a link from another website so just treat what I'm going to say as an outsider opinion please.
First of all thank you for the article. It has the most detailed information so far as to what is in or not in the patch.
I have to say that this article has some bias though. Your research is good, but I feel you do not accomplish remaining neutral and the title is also just sensationalist. I have no idea if this is always your style or if it's just oversight, but an article that focuses on providing the readers with 1st rate info should have no place for such opinions. You might think "get a load of this, a critic criticizing a critic", but no I'm just a reader and it should not be abnormal for a reader to criticize a critic
No harsh feelings.
So here I go with a couple of quotes from your article:
- There was more good news about PvP gear. “PvP gear is only earned in PvP. We wanted to make sure that PvPers only have to do PvP to earn the gear they need. We want players to play the way they want to play, in the systems they want to engage in while playing Wildstar.”
- Another forum poster highlighted this imaginative use of game mechanics, combining a double-jump and dodge to create a “Super Dodge”. Luckily, Frost isn’t in a hurry to remove it. “You know how we say ‘The Devs are Listening?’ Well, we'll see how people use/hate/love/abuse this ability and react accordingly.”
You could simply just omit the words I've underlined above (it won't even mess up the sentences, the information you provide still gets across).
Again, please don't misunderstand me I'm not flaming you for this. All I wanted to do was note how some readers who have different opinions on those matters which are highly debateable could feel alienated when reading your article. It would be a shame for them to not get the intended enjoyment out of your article just because of ill feelings they develop against you.
I repeat, it's not just a problem as simple as big but not huge. It's about a an odd course of action.
The design that was fine for the artists and accepted by most fans suddenly got a mediocre new design. Just during the hot moment of the topioc, only the two most similar races so far. Too odd.
And regarding the actual feedback on this matter, it was for the most part in favor of options, not this.
It is another problem, how rushed it looks and how clueless it seems from them, how lacking in direction and focus to suddenly release something that looks so unfinished and meanwhile go on a full comment blackout on the subject. The moderation that also felt very unfair didn't help either.
And feedback after the new patch was mostly negative towards the change.
This is even something they are aware of, but their CM's (scooter) very easily dismissed. Going as far as acknowledging that the majority was not in favor of how they handled it but still dismissing all that feedback. Over and over.
The few posts about it dismissed it, their general silence dismissed it, it all feels bad.
You say it was discussed, but it was not really talked about from them, only from other people.
Another reason that made this so sudden and hard to swallow.
The game has been changing for sure but most of those changes came in two ways.
Either was Carbine's idea, or it was suggested by the majority of fans.
This is something they claimed once was their idea but doesn't really fit into that, and it was not suggested by almost anyone. The main suggestion was to have choice. Some people didn't care either way, and many wanted to have a choice for smaller breasts, but only a few really wanted to get rid of the bigger sizes altogether.
So now they are seeing people against the change, and they have an easy way out if they use both models in the game and let people choose. That's the feedback, but are they listening ? Do they?
Hard to tell because they are not talking about it. This is something recent so it's reasonable to give them some time before they comment on it, but the silence is worrying.
My responses in Yellow. We can agree to disagree if you still think that a studio that has always made changes based on feedback has suddenly changed who they are over the fact that they made changes based on feedback. And for someone who claims not to be in beta or have beta access continues to quote from the beta forums. Hmmm.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
As for the more popular topic on breast size reduction the "various sources" that comprise of two articles do not have a... robust argument to say the least. Sadly, it is ignorant wackos like the two writers of these articles that actually undermine the feminist movement. I have not seen one example where WildStar is sexist is so far. Those who actually support those articles confuse me, I mean... just look at the sides of this website you're currently viewing (your mileage may vary). I'm not going to rant on further about the two writers, I just wanted to put this mention in because I feel it's a shame how such uneducated cries of "Sexist!" can actually turn the whole movement into being perceived like the "boy who cried wolf" situation.
I'll just leave this concise and more educated comment made on one of those articles by another reader:
rosierappaport
Developers have to take all of this into account when making every little decision about what they do. Make the female characters "realistic" and critics say the characters don't look good. Plain and simple. Make them look artistically idealized and other critics say that their personal body types aren't adequately represented.
IMO Yes, "Passive sexism" is bad, but this is not even close to "passive sexism". This is Idealization of body types. (BTW both genders are idealized in Wildstar). Artists have been doing that since man could drag a stick through the mud. Google Venus of Willendorf if you wonder what I mean. Check out Venus de Milo. The Greeks weren't lining up to sculpt the normal looking chicks. Check out Peter Paul Rubens to see what the ideal female form was in the Netherlands in the mid 1600s. Artists have been in love with the female form from the beginning. Why? Because the female form is beautiful and intriguing. Trends within these ideals come and go, from stick insect skinny to pink and rotund.
Source: I'm a chick and a game developer
I personally think Carbine did the breast size reduction as an artistic change regarding aesthetics. If they really caved in to be "politically correct" then that's a shame and doesn't bode well for future content for a few other areas, but I personally don't think that's the case.
Anyhow, if they really do give choices later on the whole matter will be taken care of. Everyone gets what they want and if they see another player with a female character with chest features they don't exactly approve of, they'll get to view them with whatever prejudice they want
On a more serious note just because people prefer bigger breasts to look at doesn't make them a kid in their puberty just like how someone who doesn't like big breasts are not necessarily gay (as if that's an insult). I hope Carbine makes selections available soon after release (either several preset body choices or sliders) to put the matter to rest.
it reminds me "ARR Lala Boob Slider 2.0" discusion in FFXIV :DD
You said I ignore you but right now I feel like repeating myself a lot.
If you don't want to see how odd this all is, or how rushed and bad the models are, and don't care that they are disregarding the feedback about it that is your prerogative.
That it is all still there.
The difference between the generalized feedback that drives most of the progress and this situation is also something you didn't get. The majority of feedback was "the breasts are fine, but we want more choice" and after the patch it was" this does not look right, and where are the choices ?"
That's stuff I'm telling you got ignored and even dismissed. I don't know if reposting beta posts is against the NDA so I won't give you a screenshot of it here but you can probably find it out there because I've seen it a lot.
Just go check all that.
You think they are building a slider?
I would like to believe that but unfortunately what they said is that they tried building it once, but they had clipping issues with the animations so they couldn't make them work. So they will not be in the game for the moment, but "we'll see " in the future.
It's not a confirmation of anything. It doesn't tell us that they are still working on it, or what they are working on, which options for who in what way, and it doesn't give us any guarantees.
That's odd too, considering that they have two models now to give people as choices, the old and new.
That's something they should release at the very least, if they can't give us some better form of options.
That happy medium isn't really making a lot of people happy.
It's getting late so just to make it clear for now, the sliders are not coming. The only thing they confirmed is that they tried once, they didn't get them to work, and they may try to implement them again someday.
So right now they can either deliver the two designs they have, which would be the best thing they could do for their community in general, it would be the best next thing to sliders right now, or they can go for only one model and make an unnecessary thing that is not making the game any favours.
You're right, Carbine reducing breast sizes, CM's moderating long threads featuring personal attacks and the devs changing things based on feedback proves that in a matter of three days they've ceased to be the same Company they've been since 2005. You win, well done.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
