Ia ma actually a huge fan of this.... And in GW2 its a necesarrity to prevent higher kevels from ruining low level dynamic content..
on top of that it allows players to do lower level content and join lower level friends without ruining all the challenge..
the only thing GW2 does not do is give people a reason to travel back to those lower level zones...espescially if you are not a completionist.
This is an issue and there is truly no optimal solution.
Personally, I hate the idea that in a game that already has a limited character progression model, that even what I have worked hard to achieve is taken away from me, even still, while not a great solution, It's better than what would happen if it wasn't in place. I still remember early on in Rift when I would level an alt and go to low level rifts and there would always be some level 50 that showed up and dominated the Rift making it difficult for the low level players to get full credit for participating.
So at the end of the day, given GW2's existing mechanics, I'll take what they have over having to worry about not even getting in a single hit running low level events.
"To the OP of this post, I am assuming you didn't stick around long enough to hit max level because if you did, then you would had known that taking on monsters at low level zones after you hit max level is piece of cake! With good weapons, max armors and all skills and traits unlocked... you're unstoppable!!! The only challenge you will have is with Champions monsters since they do require at least two players to beat (at least for me).
Talking about "No sense of progression.." oh please.
You're making my point for me and I still don't understand the need to keep defending the game since it's not under attack.
My issue is totally true and so is your assessment; you just missed my point.
I said nothing about how the game is when you hit max level. My issue is I don't want to have to hit max level to feel the progression. Simply put it doesn't work for me and that's all I said. I did not say the game was bad or flawed but what I was looking for was a consistent experience where that feeling of having leveled up consistently made me feel as if I did.
I'm happy it works for you, but I'm not about the end game, I'm about the whole experience. I'm not in a hurry to hit max level and have BIS gear. Oh I want to get there at some point but for me it's the experience the whole way, not just what it's like after you max out.
Haven't read the OP, but I couldn't get hooked on the game either. I would not be able to pinpoint a flaw in their development that would be something they did "wrong" though. I thought the game looked good, the combat was OK, character development was OK, it just didn't grab me.
I found the zones to feel artificially constricted in size. I think it was the density of the content and mobs. It just felt weird to have two groups of mobs across a shallow river from each other and have them not interact in any way while just up the hill was a small village of something that got burned down and nobody in the area seemed to notice.
The combat felt clunky. I thought this was just something I would think of MMORPG, hot button combat, but after going back to WoW for a month, I don't think so.
I think the questing was a good take on questing, but it just seemed very superficial to me. Nothing about the questing really grabbed me, not even the story stuff. I just didn't care about my character or their story. I think the developer really wanted me to care about my character and the story, but I just didn't.
I thought the PvP zone was great, combat and all.
There were and are a lot of people playing the game, so obviously this stuff isn't universal. I think I'm just not the person that Anet had in mind when they made GW2.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I have to laugh at the couple of posts suggesting I didn't play the game. Id id play the game a few times and no, I never got to the level 80 exotic armor because I can't stay dedicated to it long enough. I also did not trash the game so you don't have to trash me. I was very open in saying the mechanics probably work for some people. I just don't like being level 40 or 50 and then going somewhere and finding my effective level to be 8 or 11. That's not character progression to me, notmy taster, but Inever said my taste was the only way to go.
I completely understand the problem with higher level characters making life hard on lower level players by being able to clear the map with a sneeze. I'm also not that type of player and would never do that, but I get that people do.
I was just curious if there were other people turned off by this mechanic, and I guess there are some. Those of you who think GW2 is great or the "be all end all" I'm actually happy for you. I think it's great there are many games for many people and I wish everyone much fun. You don't have to be snippy with me to defend what you like, I wasn't attacking it.
There are some really good features to GW2. Thanks all for replying.
We are just suggesting that maybe that level 40 or 60 you reached wasn't equipped with the best level 40 rare gear and rare runes and had the best build available.
I mean even a level 2 character with a blue weapon and white armor that can hold runes can see a difference from 4-5 shots needed to kill a mob to one shoting mobs (this is common knowledge with the black key runners).
I appreciate that, but you're talking extremes. What I'm talking about is being able to conquer an area. To be able to walk around in a zone 30 levels below you and just enjoy the scenery or explore a bit and not have every piece of trash still a threat. EQ2 used to have a mechanic (I believe it was EQ2) where you could mentor others and scale to their level if you chose to. I don't want my gameplay to require me to have the rarest gear although having it should be an advantage. What I'm saying is that when I'm 40 or 60 I don't want to be effectively level 9 in lower zones. Optional scaling would be great, forced scaling doesn't work for me.
That said, I never said the game had to work for me to be quality. Your experience and mine are different and a number of people on this forum feel the same. That is NOT an indictment on GW2, I take all the blame for not being intrigued by the mechanics. I didn't come here to get anyone to say that GW2 sucks or anything remotely like that. The game has a lot going for it but that mechanic kills any longevity for me. I like being level 1 or 11 or 74 or whatever I am; I just like it to have consistent meaning for me. That's all.
Ia ma actually a huge fan of this.... And in GW2 its a necesarrity to prevent higher kevels from ruining low level dynamic content..
on top of that it allows players to do lower level content and join lower level friends without ruining all the challenge..
the only thing GW2 does not do is give people a reason to travel back to those lower level zones...espescially if you are not a completionist.
This is an issue and there is truly no optimal solution.
Personally, I hate the idea that in a game that already has a limited character progression model, that even what I have worked hard to achieve is taken away from me, even still, while not a great solution, It's better than what would happen if it wasn't in place. I still remember early on in Rift when I would level an alt and go to low level rifts and there would always be some level 50 that showed up and dominated the Rift making it difficult for the low level players to get full credit for participating.
So at the end of the day, given GW2's existing mechanics, I'll take what they have over having to worry about not even getting in a single hit running low level events.
I agree with you completely. FFXIV has a mechanic (and I am not holding that game up as better, just there are games that have good ideas) where if there is an event and your level is too far above it you cannot participate unless you manually sync your level down to an exceptional range. I guess I like having the choice to be level 5 to a level 1 rat if I'm level 80. Yes I know there will be a reply telling me to go play FFXIV, but again I'm just saying there are other ways to achieve an end result.
I don't consider myself "hooked" but I play every day. I only engage in sPvP and rarely venture elsewhere. The only reason I have a lvl 80 is because they implemented the vendor that allows you to buy levels with glory. Honestly I like almost everything about the game, but I have no desire to "progress" in it.
PvE zergs are hella fun, but I have no desire to seek them. I'm not sure why.
WvW keeps and tower sieging is exactly what I am looking for in massive pvp, but I still have no desire to join in here. I think the lack of trinity makes the zerg-play feel more generic. I feel useless. AoE or go home. Everyone can heal. I don't have a singular role that feels profound, like im not making a significant impact. Why roam in WvW when you can sPvP?
Maybe my own taste in games is changing. Maybe I am less about spending time "progressing" and I just want to hop on and play? I want to be more involved in the game, but have no motivation to do so.
I didnt mind the level scaling but I did only get to level 30 something before deciding to stop playing. The main thing for me was that I was my own everything , the combat was far to area based for my liking , skills were too lackluster and available way to early for a sense of progression. Then finding myself running in a circle for the events and area bosses got boring real fast.
What profession SkyLok - you used the generic complaints that can be made against any MMO.
Warriors, Thiefs, Guardians, Rangers and Engineers are not that area based. The only two professions that are - Necromancer and Elementalist. It is obvious you just picked a build from the net and tried it w/o learning the in's and outs of the game. Try a sword/sword or sword/pistol Mesmer for hard to play.
You also followed the train which is boring as hell and not needed.
I do exploring and it levels much faster and less boring but you know about that, didn't you (probably not). GW2 is not a point A to Point B game. If you played it that way, your loss.
I have two 80's Guardian and Thief, I enjoyed SPvP for a while, have awesome outfits, but GW2 really doesn't have a hook for me either. I never feel a pull to log in and as much as I would like to level another char, I hate the leveling experience precisely because of what the OP said. Level scaling mobs really make it unfun. I like the "dynamic" questing style as I can roam around zones, but boy do I hate leveling, and feeling like I'm still level 1.
Then there's this weird duality at max level.
If you want to do something in particular, there's a massive grind waiting for you.
-i.e. you want pvp outfits? PvP until it's carpal tunnel hot pockets time! You want outfits from dungeons? Run dungeons all day every day for tokens! Want to explore? You have to go to every part of the map even if it's boring with nothing to see there!
If you just want to have fun and no pressure, then there's nothing waiting for you.
- i.e. you just wanna pvp a bit, run a couple dungeons, explore a little. There are no rewards for playing a little, I guess eventually your efforts will add up, but blah, by the time I've run a dungeon 5 times, I'm not that interested anymore.
1) The reason the OP suggested - Scaling. I personally don't like FORCED scaling. I think the way Rift handled it was good. Optionally allow me to adjust my level downward when I want to play it like a low level player and get decent loot, and let me not do so when I am just running through the zone to get from A to B, or if I'm trying to help a friend with a group quest and he can't find one.
2) PvP - I HATE HATE HATE that each PvP area resets. No permenancy = no impact for me. I am not good at PvP, but I do enjoy it. When I heard they were doing some things similar to DAoC, I knew I was going to try it. But the constant reset after X hours just deterred me. I like the way ESO is handling PvP, and it has 3 geniune factions.
I will also table this in favor of ESO.. Cannot wait for that game.
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard It will be quite entertaining when worse threads will appear on the ESO forum one or two months after release... WAY worse.
You mean people won't like the way a MMO game handles certain systems or plays, and will post /ragequit threads about how the game did not appeal to their particular taste? What on earth would give you THAT idea? It hasn't happend yet for legendary games like UO, DAoC, EQ, AC, WoW, Shadowbane, EQ2, Guild Wars, LoTR, AC2, FFXI, Rift, GW2, Neverwinter, FFXIV......
Originally posted by alicorn I have tried numerous times to get into GW2 as I'm usually between games (currently waiting for ESO) and I keep failing to stay interested. I think I have finally put my finger on what the problem for me is.I never feel like I'm getting stronger. I completely detest that the no matter what level you are the game scales you to the area. I just don't understand this. It's like getting good at chess but if you play someone who's not at good you have to start out with less pieces. I remember playing original EQ and having Dorn B'Dinn kick my ass in South Ro and how much satisfaction I got when I was much stronger and would seek him out for revenge. It's not that I need to feel I can just beat up on weaker things, but I should be able to if I want to. I guess there's a player base that finds this more challenging but for me I want to be challenged by things that are as strong as I'm supposed to be and able to go back to lesser zones and just look around if I want without having monsters 20 levels below me still being an issue.I guess I just like the satisfaction of being able to look back at a tough area and know that now I am its master now. Is it just me?
I agree with you. That is exactly why I left, I tried coming back but prefer a game that allows me to do what you said. EQ2
I also don't like how I am constantly harassed by mobs. sometimes it's hard to find a spot where I can take a breath and regroup for the next wave.
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
Yep...Hate the fact it bombards you with skills early in the game and then gives you hardly any more after that until finally you just stop getting any more useful skills at all. I feel like I'm playing for nothing and the DEs feel so scripted and static. Not dynamic at all.
The graphics are beautiful and some of their ideas were good but there's a terrible sense of progression and the world feels empty. I'll go back to it every now and then but it doesn't take me long to get bored again. Maybe an expansion would help?
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard It will be quite entertaining when worse threads will appear on the ESO forum one or two months after release... WAY worse.
I doubt it considering they never released a manifesto.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
16 damage vs 77 damage - that is 480% more damage.
Now imagine what a higher level character would do.
It is also quite easy to solo champions of lower level areas with higher level characters (some classes have a easier time, while others require more skill with dodges and blocks).
Lvl 1 warrior starting equipment stats.
lvl 1 warrior with best available armor and runes.
Lowest downleveled max level warrior.
And this is a PVT armor set.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
1) The reason the OP suggested - Scaling. I personally don't like FORCED scaling. I think the way Rift handled it was good. Optionally allow me to adjust my level downward when I want to play it like a low level player and get decent loot, and let me not do so when I am just running through the zone to get from A to B, or if I'm trying to help a friend with a group quest and he can't find one.
2) PvP - I HATE HATE HATE that each PvP area resets. No permenancy = no impact for me. I am not good at PvP, but I do enjoy it. When I heard they were doing some things similar to DAoC, I knew I was going to try it. But the constant reset after X hours just deterred me. I like the way ESO is handling PvP, and it has 3 geniune factions.
I will also table this in favor of ESO.. Cannot wait for that game
I think you might be advised to wait a month or so after ESO has been out to avoid choking on your foot
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard It will be quite entertaining when worse threads will appear on the ESO forum one or two months after release... WAY worse.
I doubt it considering they never released a manifesto.
IMO, GW2 is a decent game. I do enjoy playing it.
However, I have to agree with your comment. If ANET never published that Manifesto, I don't think the backlash against GW2 not meeting the expectations set by it would have been anywhere near as severe as what it was.
Well, that and that they tried too hard to be "NotWoW Online" to the point where they disregarded many things that might have worked trying to re invent too many wheels.
All that said, when I finally got past the fact that what I saw in the manifesto and what I saw in the finished product were not the same, I gave the game a 2nd shot based on what I did find. I rather enjoyed it.
I'm eagerly awaiting ESO but as a closed beta tester I can't really go into specifics except that I love the exploration and a number of other things. Will be happy to elucidate when they lift the NDA. I'm not saying it's the "be all - end all" but I see many things I dearly like and the things I dislike are minor in comparison.
I will never offend anyone's game because if it makes them happy then it's done its job. I will simply say the combination of mechanics suits me better.
Comments
that was the issue with GW2 for me from the get go. its a quality well made game for what it is but i just can't get into it, just not my cup of tea.
I allready requested a transfer to the GW2 forums... Obviously the OP made a mistke, bu no harm done
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
This is an issue and there is truly no optimal solution.
Personally, I hate the idea that in a game that already has a limited character progression model, that even what I have worked hard to achieve is taken away from me, even still, while not a great solution, It's better than what would happen if it wasn't in place. I still remember early on in Rift when I would level an alt and go to low level rifts and there would always be some level 50 that showed up and dominated the Rift making it difficult for the low level players to get full credit for participating.
So at the end of the day, given GW2's existing mechanics, I'll take what they have over having to worry about not even getting in a single hit running low level events.
You're making my point for me and I still don't understand the need to keep defending the game since it's not under attack.
My issue is totally true and so is your assessment; you just missed my point.
I said nothing about how the game is when you hit max level. My issue is I don't want to have to hit max level to feel the progression. Simply put it doesn't work for me and that's all I said. I did not say the game was bad or flawed but what I was looking for was a consistent experience where that feeling of having leveled up consistently made me feel as if I did.
I'm happy it works for you, but I'm not about the end game, I'm about the whole experience. I'm not in a hurry to hit max level and have BIS gear. Oh I want to get there at some point but for me it's the experience the whole way, not just what it's like after you max out.
Haven't read the OP, but I couldn't get hooked on the game either. I would not be able to pinpoint a flaw in their development that would be something they did "wrong" though. I thought the game looked good, the combat was OK, character development was OK, it just didn't grab me.
I found the zones to feel artificially constricted in size. I think it was the density of the content and mobs. It just felt weird to have two groups of mobs across a shallow river from each other and have them not interact in any way while just up the hill was a small village of something that got burned down and nobody in the area seemed to notice.
The combat felt clunky. I thought this was just something I would think of MMORPG, hot button combat, but after going back to WoW for a month, I don't think so.
I think the questing was a good take on questing, but it just seemed very superficial to me. Nothing about the questing really grabbed me, not even the story stuff. I just didn't care about my character or their story. I think the developer really wanted me to care about my character and the story, but I just didn't.
I thought the PvP zone was great, combat and all.
There were and are a lot of people playing the game, so obviously this stuff isn't universal. I think I'm just not the person that Anet had in mind when they made GW2.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I appreciate that, but you're talking extremes. What I'm talking about is being able to conquer an area. To be able to walk around in a zone 30 levels below you and just enjoy the scenery or explore a bit and not have every piece of trash still a threat. EQ2 used to have a mechanic (I believe it was EQ2) where you could mentor others and scale to their level if you chose to. I don't want my gameplay to require me to have the rarest gear although having it should be an advantage. What I'm saying is that when I'm 40 or 60 I don't want to be effectively level 9 in lower zones. Optional scaling would be great, forced scaling doesn't work for me.
That said, I never said the game had to work for me to be quality. Your experience and mine are different and a number of people on this forum feel the same. That is NOT an indictment on GW2, I take all the blame for not being intrigued by the mechanics. I didn't come here to get anyone to say that GW2 sucks or anything remotely like that. The game has a lot going for it but that mechanic kills any longevity for me. I like being level 1 or 11 or 74 or whatever I am; I just like it to have consistent meaning for me. That's all.
I seriously did make a mistake, did not mean to post it in the ESO forums, thanks for requesting the switch and the understanding I goofed!
I agree with you completely. FFXIV has a mechanic (and I am not holding that game up as better, just there are games that have good ideas) where if there is an event and your level is too far above it you cannot participate unless you manually sync your level down to an exceptional range. I guess I like having the choice to be level 5 to a level 1 rat if I'm level 80. Yes I know there will be a reply telling me to go play FFXIV, but again I'm just saying there are other ways to achieve an end result.
I don't consider myself "hooked" but I play every day. I only engage in sPvP and rarely venture elsewhere. The only reason I have a lvl 80 is because they implemented the vendor that allows you to buy levels with glory. Honestly I like almost everything about the game, but I have no desire to "progress" in it.
PvE zergs are hella fun, but I have no desire to seek them. I'm not sure why.
WvW keeps and tower sieging is exactly what I am looking for in massive pvp, but I still have no desire to join in here. I think the lack of trinity makes the zerg-play feel more generic. I feel useless. AoE or go home. Everyone can heal. I don't have a singular role that feels profound, like im not making a significant impact. Why roam in WvW when you can sPvP?
Maybe my own taste in games is changing. Maybe I am less about spending time "progressing" and I just want to hop on and play? I want to be more involved in the game, but have no motivation to do so.
Dissappointing
Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before.
Edgar Allan Poe
What profession SkyLok - you used the generic complaints that can be made against any MMO.
Warriors, Thiefs, Guardians, Rangers and Engineers are not that area based. The only two professions that are - Necromancer and Elementalist. It is obvious you just picked a build from the net and tried it w/o learning the in's and outs of the game. Try a sword/sword or sword/pistol Mesmer for hard to play.
You also followed the train which is boring as hell and not needed.
I do exploring and it levels much faster and less boring but you know about that, didn't you (probably not). GW2 is not a point A to Point B game. If you played it that way, your loss.
I have two 80's Guardian and Thief, I enjoyed SPvP for a while, have awesome outfits, but GW2 really doesn't have a hook for me either. I never feel a pull to log in and as much as I would like to level another char, I hate the leveling experience precisely because of what the OP said. Level scaling mobs really make it unfun. I like the "dynamic" questing style as I can roam around zones, but boy do I hate leveling, and feeling like I'm still level 1.
Then there's this weird duality at max level.
If you want to do something in particular, there's a massive grind waiting for you.
-i.e. you want pvp outfits? PvP until it's carpal tunnel hot pockets time! You want outfits from dungeons? Run dungeons all day every day for tokens! Want to explore? You have to go to every part of the map even if it's boring with nothing to see there!
If you just want to have fun and no pressure, then there's nothing waiting for you.
- i.e. you just wanna pvp a bit, run a couple dungeons, explore a little. There are no rewards for playing a little, I guess eventually your efforts will add up, but blah, by the time I've run a dungeon 5 times, I'm not that interested anymore.
I too couldn't stay hooked.
1) The reason the OP suggested - Scaling. I personally don't like FORCED scaling. I think the way Rift handled it was good. Optionally allow me to adjust my level downward when I want to play it like a low level player and get decent loot, and let me not do so when I am just running through the zone to get from A to B, or if I'm trying to help a friend with a group quest and he can't find one.
2) PvP - I HATE HATE HATE that each PvP area resets. No permenancy = no impact for me. I am not good at PvP, but I do enjoy it. When I heard they were doing some things similar to DAoC, I knew I was going to try it. But the constant reset after X hours just deterred me. I like the way ESO is handling PvP, and it has 3 geniune factions.
I will also table this in favor of ESO.. Cannot wait for that game.
I couldnt agree more! I feels like nothing matters. Of course nothing in a game does actually matter, but hell, try to fool me at least.
Edit - I love the "you played it wrong posts". If you dont like the same thing as someone else - YOU did it wrong. LOL!
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
George Washington
You mean people won't like the way a MMO game handles certain systems or plays, and will post /ragequit threads about how the game did not appeal to their particular taste? What on earth would give you THAT idea? It hasn't happend yet for legendary games like UO, DAoC, EQ, AC, WoW, Shadowbane, EQ2, Guild Wars, LoTR, AC2, FFXI, Rift, GW2, Neverwinter, FFXIV......
For the record, for ESO, I won't be one of them.
I agree with you. That is exactly why I left, I tried coming back but prefer a game that allows me to do what you said. EQ2
I also don't like how I am constantly harassed by mobs. sometimes it's hard to find a spot where I can take a breath and regroup for the next wave.
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
Yep...Hate the fact it bombards you with skills early in the game and then gives you hardly any more after that until finally you just stop getting any more useful skills at all. I feel like I'm playing for nothing and the DEs feel so scripted and static. Not dynamic at all.
The graphics are beautiful and some of their ideas were good but there's a terrible sense of progression and the world feels empty. I'll go back to it every now and then but it doesn't take me long to get bored again. Maybe an expansion would help?
Mind of a fanboy says if you don't like it you're either "doing it wrong" or just don't get it".
I doubt it considering they never released a manifesto.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
GW2 progression at lvl 1.
Starter gear vs best level 0 gear with runes.
16 damage vs 77 damage - that is 480% more damage.
Now imagine what a higher level character would do.
It is also quite easy to solo champions of lower level areas with higher level characters (some classes have a easier time, while others require more skill with dodges and blocks).
Lvl 1 warrior starting equipment stats.
lvl 1 warrior with best available armor and runes.
Lowest downleveled max level warrior.
And this is a PVT armor set.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I think you might be advised to wait a month or so after ESO has been out to avoid choking on your foot
IMO, GW2 is a decent game. I do enjoy playing it.
However, I have to agree with your comment. If ANET never published that Manifesto, I don't think the backlash against GW2 not meeting the expectations set by it would have been anywhere near as severe as what it was.
Well, that and that they tried too hard to be "NotWoW Online" to the point where they disregarded many things that might have worked trying to re invent too many wheels.
All that said, when I finally got past the fact that what I saw in the manifesto and what I saw in the finished product were not the same, I gave the game a 2nd shot based on what I did find. I rather enjoyed it.
I also have my doubts about ESO.
I'm eagerly awaiting ESO but as a closed beta tester I can't really go into specifics except that I love the exploration and a number of other things. Will be happy to elucidate when they lift the NDA. I'm not saying it's the "be all - end all" but I see many things I dearly like and the things I dislike are minor in comparison.
I will never offend anyone's game because if it makes them happy then it's done its job. I will simply say the combination of mechanics suits me better.