In chess, you receive no tangible rewards that impact your abilities as you advance in skill. The difference between a good chess player and a bad chess player is purely in the talent and skill difference between the two players. They both have the same pieces, they both start in mirrored positions on the board, and they are both constrained by the same rules that determine who wins and who loses.
In Guild Wars 2, you are rewarded with stat increases and new abilities as you progress through the game. The difference between a good player and a bad player is not merely in the talent and skill differences but also in the stat and ability differences. When a player at level 80 encounters a player at level 10, the player at level 80 will win regardless of whether that player is objectively more skilled at the game than the level 10 player. Stat normalisation is designed to remove or diminish the impact of stat and ability increases in order to provide a better and fairer platform for competition between players, whilst also working to broaden the amount of available content for players to experience. Deleveling is the most common method for achieving these ends.
Also, you say you don't need to beat up on little things to enjoy the game... but your main criticism is that you can't beat up on little things and thus don't enjoy the game. Confuses me a little. Saying "I don't need it, but I want it" doesn't solve the problem either; if you didn't need it, you'd be enjoying the game (by merit of the fact that you're only saying you don't enjoy the game because you can't do the aforementioned thing).
Furthermore, you are the master of a tough area by merit of your mastery over that tough area. If you fail to master a tough area consistently, even after gaining X number of levels (and the experience, practice, and general skill climb that you will get from your time playing), then you are not nor do you deserve to be the master of said tough area. Either work harder to master it (if you care that much)... or accept your shortcoming and move on.
If you're enjoyment of an MMO is reliant on (a) having a gear advantage over others in order to obfuscate the skill differential between you and (1) hard/tough areas of the game, and (2) other players that happen to be better than you, then might I suggest that GW2 isn't QUITE the game for you; try a different game.
I played GW2 for quite a bit. Probably have spent 200 hours on the game and I have 2 level 80 toons. I enjoyed exploring the game at first and I was satisfied with just leveling up. What I found boring was as you said the lack of progression. After doing the dungeons once I felt no reason whatsover to do them again due to lack of item upgrades. Also I found the actual stats on items extremely boring. And I didn't like the fact that the only role in gw2 is dps.
The downscaling is one of the things which I really liked.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
well i prefer the progression to be based on visual uniqueness than some steamroll stats ...
also i prefer to feel the progression of my character effectiveness based on mine skill progression, thats why i prefer active combat game cause through the time you raise your skills ...
I cant understand why people go in and talk trash about it.
Is simple equation really money = should equal quality
if it does its ok
if it doesn't you got scammed
So i will ask you people do you think you can get something better for this price from newer MMOs ?
I can't think of anything that comes even close in terms of what you get for your money. GW2 is a gem for a casual player. It's possible that people wanting to play 24/7, or as close to that as humanly possible, have better options available to them, but I'm not really looking for that anymore so I wouldn't know, or want to know, that for sure anyway. I've built my real life around a game for a while, it's not something I'd care to repeat ever again.
I cant understand why people go in and talk trash about it.
Is simple equation really money = should equal quality
if it does its ok
if it doesn't you got scammed
So i will ask you people do you think you can get something better for this price from newer MMOs ?
Yes, I can, and have. EQ2, WOW, FFXI, etc, etc. Why because I enjoy those games. It doesn t matter if a game is free, if it s a crappy game to an individual, it s not worth it. I would rather spend the sub fee on any games mentioned, and even more then waste my time in a game like GW2, as time is as important to me as money is. As you said, money=should equal quality, to me, GW2 free, still isn t quality, hence I got scammed.
So i will ask you people do you think you can get something better for this price from newer MMOs ?
Value is in the eye of the beholder.
Personally GW2 is on my short list of 3 MMOs I've regretted buying (FFXI and Defiance being the other two). For me personally its value was very near nil, but that's me. It's not really about level scaling, I think that's an idiotic "feature" and would have thought designers would have learned that a long time ago, but whatever. For me it was just that the game lacked any 'hook'. Classes and their skills were boring and nigh unto indistinguishable, combat was mindless and, regardless of whether you were talking a trash world mob or a giganto-boss, depressingly repetitive, the whole thing felt like an empty, if attractive, world with Anet's signature fifth rate storytelling (to be honest, never their strong suit, to put it mildly) inexpertly overlayed on top with a follow-the-map design that created the most literal form of "themepark" gameplay I've ever had the displeasure of seeing.
As I said, that's me. Others loved the hell out of it, more power to them.
As for your question, while not 'newer', any of the GW1 stand-alones (especially Prophecies) was such a vastly superior product for the price that it's stunning to see how far the gameplay has fallen.
This issue has never been the ability to have challenging older content. As many have stated, fully exotic gear will over power down scaled content, regardless of how far down scaled you are. The issue that most have is the lack of further progression. I had my own bucket list of exploration, dungeons and story. Once I had completed those, I lacked a reason to continue logging in.
GW2 is a lateral model for end game progression. You can spend dozens of hours to acquire a different skin for weapons or armor, but it doesn’t make it any more or less powerful. If you don’t have a retort for “why bother,” GW2 may not be your cup of tea.
My problem with GW2 stems from the difference between the artwork that promoted the game (Very cool and 'realistic' and dark) and the graphics in the game (Cartoony and downright ugly). Furthermore, the peace between the races ruined any sort of factional relations. Doesn't matter whether I'm human or another race. I can go whereever I please..
I love how all the very successful game developers are posting here telling people how anet ruined the game. It's quite nice to get professional opinions on how anet has screwed the game and how these forum warriors.. oops.. I mean very professional developers could do a better job.
GW2 has multiple problems that lead to the same conclusion. First it has a "hybrid" combat system, which really is not hybrid at all since you have few options other than DPS spam. The combat for every class is much the same besides a few utility animations and all the interesting skills are basically useless. But most of all the game has two problems that have nothing to do with holy trinity, RAIDS or pvp.
There is no progression and there is no persistence. They have managed to create a game world an mmo that totally lacks persistence at all. There is less persistence in this game than some single player games. People need to attain something even if its not a gear grind. The lack of persistence bleeds over into the games construction since pvp and pve are essentially two different games that both lack meaningful progression and one side cannot show off to the other.
The world itself is also way to sterile, lack of any kind of non localized pvp at all make this one big safe zone and if WvW were good it would take the edge off a bit, but its not good, at all.
Fellucca can exist without Trammel but Trammel is an empty suitcase without Fellucca.
GW2 has multiple problems that lead to the same conclusion. First it has a "hybrid" combat system, which really is not hybrid at all since you have few options other than DPS spam. The combat for every class is much the same besides a few utility animations and all the interesting skills are basically useless. But most of all the game has two problems that have nothing to do with holy trinity, RAIDS or pvp.
There is no progression and there is no persistence. They have managed to create a game world an mmo that totally lacks persistence at all. There is less persistence in this game than some single player games. People need to attain something even if its not a gear grind. The lack of persistence bleeds over into the games construction since pvp and pve are essentially two different games that both lack meaningful progression and one side cannot show off to the other.
The world itself is also way to sterile, lack of any kind of non localized pvp at all make this one big safe zone and if WvW were good it would take the edge off a bit, but its not good, at all.
Fellucca can exist without Trammel but Trammel is an empty suitcase without Fellucca.
GW2 has multiple problems that lead to the same conclusion. First it has a "hybrid" combat system, which really is not hybrid at all since you have few options other than DPS spam. The combat for every class is much the same besides a few utility animations and all the interesting skills are basically useless. But most of all the game has two problems that have nothing to do with holy trinity, RAIDS or pvp.
There is no progression and there is no persistence. They have managed to create a game world an mmo that totally lacks persistence at all. There is less persistence in this game than some single player games. People need to attain something even if its not a gear grind. The lack of persistence bleeds over into the games construction since pvp and pve are essentially two different games that both lack meaningful progression and one side cannot show off to the other.
The world itself is also way to sterile, lack of any kind of non localized pvp at all make this one big safe zone and if WvW were good it would take the edge off a bit, but its not good, at all.
Fellucca can exist without Trammel but Trammel is an empty suitcase without Fellucca.
Since you probably just learned this word.....
Defensive, so what its true there is no carry over in this game at all. Nothing you do sticks, sorry but collecting dyes from willow bark is not a crafting system. Doing multiple "events" every few months for the grand prize of new cosmetics is not real progression. "Changing the world" and doing events only to have them respawn in what is essentially a do it yourself questing hub in which you just kill the respawns over and over is not a persistent game world. Making everyone DPS and calling it a hybrid class system is like sticking a feather up a dogs ass and calling it a war eagle. This entire game is emulated BS that doesn't have any real meaning at all and I think the fact that organized PVP is basically dead in this game only confirms that.
Defensive, so what its true there is no carry over in this game at all. Nothing you do sticks, sorry but collecting dyes from willow bark is not a crafting system. Doing multiple "events" every few months for the grand prize of new cosmetics is not real progression. "Changing the world" and doing events only to have them respawn in what is essentially a do it yourself questing hub in which you just kill the respawns over and over is not a persistent game world. Making everyone DPS and calling it a hybrid class system is like sticking a feather up a dogs ass and calling it a war eagle. This entire game is emulated BS that doesn't have any real meaning at all and I think the fact that organized PVP is basically dead in this game only confirms that.
I'll agree with the persistence thing, and even prior to launch I called it, including the necessity to group.. which... I have to say.. GW2 really did kind of kill the whole community aspect as nobody really "needs" other players to do anything. Grouping up is really a joke in the open world... you don't need it for bosses, you don't need it for farming.. you just don't need to group...
The only time you really do need a group is for dungeons.. which, you can just use the LFG tool and get it done with PUGs more than half the time. The only REAL planning needed for big bosses like Tequatl is... well... just make sure 50% know what they're doing and the rest are pretty much fodder anyways, or will eventually learn it the more they do it.. and since its run so often its not a big deal.
Where I do disagree is the class system.. as I believe that its less of a hybrid class system then what people think. You can sufficiently create a tank from almost any class.. though I've seen some thief evasion builds that would border on tanking, and there are a few classes that can heal exceptionally well.. like the engineer, the elementalist, the guardian... I've even seen the necromancer put out some good team heals. The truth of these sPvP builds is that, in order to run them, you won't be doing DPS at all.
My DPS build for my elementalist can nearly 1 shot most non-tank builds... but I can barely take 4 shots from a DPS thief. In comparison, my tank spec'd warrior can stay alive 3 vs 1 for a pretty long time... and my heal spec'd elementalist build can keep a team alive pretty well given they know what to do and what to look for.
I mean at least on my server, structured and tournament PvP is alive and well.. and well... we're blackgate.. so... we always win at WvW... but that truly is just zergs with little actual strategy these days.
GW2 has multiple problems that lead to the same conclusion. First it has a "hybrid" combat system, which really is not hybrid at all since you have few options other than DPS spam. The combat for every class is much the same besides a few utility animations and all the interesting skills are basically useless. But most of all the game has two problems that have nothing to do with holy trinity, RAIDS or pvp.
There is no progression and there is no persistence. They have managed to create a game world an mmo that totally lacks persistence at all. There is less persistence in this game than some single player games. People need to attain something even if its not a gear grind. The lack of persistence bleeds over into the games construction since pvp and pve are essentially two different games that both lack meaningful progression and one side cannot show off to the other.
The world itself is also way to sterile, lack of any kind of non localized pvp at all make this one big safe zone and if WvW were good it would take the edge off a bit, but its not good, at all.
Fellucca can exist without Trammel but Trammel is an empty suitcase without Fellucca.
Since you probably just learned this word.....
Defensive, so what its true there is no carry over in this game at all. Nothing you do sticks, sorry but collecting dyes from willow bark is not a crafting system. Doing multiple "events" every few months for the grand prize of new cosmetics is not real progression. "Changing the world" and doing events only to have them respawn in what is essentially a do it yourself questing hub in which you just kill the respawns over and over is not a persistent game world. Making everyone DPS and calling it a hybrid class system is like sticking a feather up a dogs ass and calling it a war eagle. This entire game is emulated BS that doesn't have any real meaning at all and I think the fact that organized PVP is basically dead in this game only confirms that.
Let me know when you make that MMO i'll be sure to check it out. btw still not making any sense
Defensive, so what its true there is no carry over in this game at all. Nothing you do sticks, sorry but collecting dyes from willow bark is not a crafting system. Doing multiple "events" every few months for the grand prize of new cosmetics is not real progression. "Changing the world" and doing events only to have them respawn in what is essentially a do it yourself questing hub in which you just kill the respawns over and over is not a persistent game world. Making everyone DPS and calling it a hybrid class system is like sticking a feather up a dogs ass and calling it a war eagle. This entire game is emulated BS that doesn't have any real meaning at all and I think the fact that organized PVP is basically dead in this game only confirms that.
I'm sorry but going from 10000 damage to 10 megadamage by pressing the same exact skill isn't much of a progression either.
Progression in GW2 is going from wiping vs a boss because you can't dodge his attacks to kill him without taking damage because now you can dodge/block all their attacks. It is going from taking 5 people to complete a dungeon to solo it.
And opposed to passive games where the progression comes from a sword that says +10 instead of +1, you do that because you as a player became better.
But I know, becoming better at a game is meaningless but getting that RNG piece of loot that is BIS and makes the game easier for you is newsworthy.
GW2 has a problem with useless stats but there is support builds, they are just completely gear independent and classes like the guardian, the mesmer or the guardian are pretty much irreplaceable.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Comments
I have, that's why I ignored the comment.
In chess, you receive no tangible rewards that impact your abilities as you advance in skill. The difference between a good chess player and a bad chess player is purely in the talent and skill difference between the two players. They both have the same pieces, they both start in mirrored positions on the board, and they are both constrained by the same rules that determine who wins and who loses.
In Guild Wars 2, you are rewarded with stat increases and new abilities as you progress through the game. The difference between a good player and a bad player is not merely in the talent and skill differences but also in the stat and ability differences. When a player at level 80 encounters a player at level 10, the player at level 80 will win regardless of whether that player is objectively more skilled at the game than the level 10 player. Stat normalisation is designed to remove or diminish the impact of stat and ability increases in order to provide a better and fairer platform for competition between players, whilst also working to broaden the amount of available content for players to experience. Deleveling is the most common method for achieving these ends.
Also, you say you don't need to beat up on little things to enjoy the game... but your main criticism is that you can't beat up on little things and thus don't enjoy the game. Confuses me a little. Saying "I don't need it, but I want it" doesn't solve the problem either; if you didn't need it, you'd be enjoying the game (by merit of the fact that you're only saying you don't enjoy the game because you can't do the aforementioned thing).
Furthermore, you are the master of a tough area by merit of your mastery over that tough area. If you fail to master a tough area consistently, even after gaining X number of levels (and the experience, practice, and general skill climb that you will get from your time playing), then you are not nor do you deserve to be the master of said tough area. Either work harder to master it (if you care that much)... or accept your shortcoming and move on.
If you're enjoyment of an MMO is reliant on (a) having a gear advantage over others in order to obfuscate the skill differential between you and (1) hard/tough areas of the game, and (2) other players that happen to be better than you, then might I suggest that GW2 isn't QUITE the game for you; try a different game.
I played GW2 for quite a bit. Probably have spent 200 hours on the game and I have 2 level 80 toons. I enjoyed exploring the game at first and I was satisfied with just leveling up. What I found boring was as you said the lack of progression. After doing the dungeons once I felt no reason whatsover to do them again due to lack of item upgrades. Also I found the actual stats on items extremely boring. And I didn't like the fact that the only role in gw2 is dps.
The downscaling is one of the things which I really liked.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
GW2 is a right game for the right price.
I cant understand why people go in and talk trash about it.
Is simple equation really money = should equal quality
if it does its ok
if it doesn't you got scammed
So i will ask you people do you think you can get something better for this price from newer MMOs ?
well i prefer the progression to be based on visual uniqueness than some steamroll stats ...
also i prefer to feel the progression of my character effectiveness based on mine skill progression, thats why i prefer active combat game cause through the time you raise your skills ...
I can't think of anything that comes even close in terms of what you get for your money. GW2 is a gem for a casual player. It's possible that people wanting to play 24/7, or as close to that as humanly possible, have better options available to them, but I'm not really looking for that anymore so I wouldn't know, or want to know, that for sure anyway. I've built my real life around a game for a while, it's not something I'd care to repeat ever again.
Yes, I can, and have. EQ2, WOW, FFXI, etc, etc. Why because I enjoy those games. It doesn t matter if a game is free, if it s a crappy game to an individual, it s not worth it. I would rather spend the sub fee on any games mentioned, and even more then waste my time in a game like GW2, as time is as important to me as money is. As you said, money=should equal quality, to me, GW2 free, still isn t quality, hence I got scammed.
Value is in the eye of the beholder.
Personally GW2 is on my short list of 3 MMOs I've regretted buying (FFXI and Defiance being the other two). For me personally its value was very near nil, but that's me. It's not really about level scaling, I think that's an idiotic "feature" and would have thought designers would have learned that a long time ago, but whatever. For me it was just that the game lacked any 'hook'. Classes and their skills were boring and nigh unto indistinguishable, combat was mindless and, regardless of whether you were talking a trash world mob or a giganto-boss, depressingly repetitive, the whole thing felt like an empty, if attractive, world with Anet's signature fifth rate storytelling (to be honest, never their strong suit, to put it mildly) inexpertly overlayed on top with a follow-the-map design that created the most literal form of "themepark" gameplay I've ever had the displeasure of seeing.
As I said, that's me. Others loved the hell out of it, more power to them.
As for your question, while not 'newer', any of the GW1 stand-alones (especially Prophecies) was such a vastly superior product for the price that it's stunning to see how far the gameplay has fallen.
This issue has never been the ability to have challenging older content. As many have stated, fully exotic gear will over power down scaled content, regardless of how far down scaled you are. The issue that most have is the lack of further progression. I had my own bucket list of exploration, dungeons and story. Once I had completed those, I lacked a reason to continue logging in.
GW2 is a lateral model for end game progression. You can spend dozens of hours to acquire a different skin for weapons or armor, but it doesn’t make it any more or less powerful. If you don’t have a retort for “why bother,” GW2 may not be your cup of tea.
I love how all the very successful game developers are posting here telling people how anet ruined the game. It's quite nice to get professional opinions on how anet has screwed the game and how these forum warriors.. oops.. I mean very professional developers could do a better job.
YAY!
hey, i run a very successful mmo, that has almost ONE player
if you can do better..bring it
the World always needs more mmos
GW2 has multiple problems that lead to the same conclusion. First it has a "hybrid" combat system, which really is not hybrid at all since you have few options other than DPS spam. The combat for every class is much the same besides a few utility animations and all the interesting skills are basically useless. But most of all the game has two problems that have nothing to do with holy trinity, RAIDS or pvp.
There is no progression and there is no persistence. They have managed to create a game world an mmo that totally lacks persistence at all. There is less persistence in this game than some single player games. People need to attain something even if its not a gear grind. The lack of persistence bleeds over into the games construction since pvp and pve are essentially two different games that both lack meaningful progression and one side cannot show off to the other.
The world itself is also way to sterile, lack of any kind of non localized pvp at all make this one big safe zone and if WvW were good it would take the edge off a bit, but its not good, at all.
Fellucca can exist without Trammel but Trammel is an empty suitcase without Fellucca.
Since you probably just learned this word.....
Defensive, so what its true there is no carry over in this game at all. Nothing you do sticks, sorry but collecting dyes from willow bark is not a crafting system. Doing multiple "events" every few months for the grand prize of new cosmetics is not real progression. "Changing the world" and doing events only to have them respawn in what is essentially a do it yourself questing hub in which you just kill the respawns over and over is not a persistent game world. Making everyone DPS and calling it a hybrid class system is like sticking a feather up a dogs ass and calling it a war eagle. This entire game is emulated BS that doesn't have any real meaning at all and I think the fact that organized PVP is basically dead in this game only confirms that.
I'll agree with the persistence thing, and even prior to launch I called it, including the necessity to group.. which... I have to say.. GW2 really did kind of kill the whole community aspect as nobody really "needs" other players to do anything. Grouping up is really a joke in the open world... you don't need it for bosses, you don't need it for farming.. you just don't need to group...
The only time you really do need a group is for dungeons.. which, you can just use the LFG tool and get it done with PUGs more than half the time. The only REAL planning needed for big bosses like Tequatl is... well... just make sure 50% know what they're doing and the rest are pretty much fodder anyways, or will eventually learn it the more they do it.. and since its run so often its not a big deal.
Where I do disagree is the class system.. as I believe that its less of a hybrid class system then what people think. You can sufficiently create a tank from almost any class.. though I've seen some thief evasion builds that would border on tanking, and there are a few classes that can heal exceptionally well.. like the engineer, the elementalist, the guardian... I've even seen the necromancer put out some good team heals. The truth of these sPvP builds is that, in order to run them, you won't be doing DPS at all.
My DPS build for my elementalist can nearly 1 shot most non-tank builds... but I can barely take 4 shots from a DPS thief. In comparison, my tank spec'd warrior can stay alive 3 vs 1 for a pretty long time... and my heal spec'd elementalist build can keep a team alive pretty well given they know what to do and what to look for.
I mean at least on my server, structured and tournament PvP is alive and well.. and well... we're blackgate.. so... we always win at WvW... but that truly is just zergs with little actual strategy these days.
Let me know when you make that MMO i'll be sure to check it out.
btw still not making any sense
The fun stuff is that the people in the know do group in the open world and WvW.
Why one might ask?
Because it is easier to get credit in a party when a huge mob of players is bashing a champion boss.
Additionally many skills affect up to 5 players. The game prioritize people in the party.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I'm sorry but going from 10000 damage to 10 megadamage by pressing the same exact skill isn't much of a progression either.
Progression in GW2 is going from wiping vs a boss because you can't dodge his attacks to kill him without taking damage because now you can dodge/block all their attacks. It is going from taking 5 people to complete a dungeon to solo it.
And opposed to passive games where the progression comes from a sword that says +10 instead of +1, you do that because you as a player became better.
But I know, becoming better at a game is meaningless but getting that RNG piece of loot that is BIS and makes the game easier for you is newsworthy.
GW2 has a problem with useless stats but there is support builds, they are just completely gear independent and classes like the guardian, the mesmer or the guardian are pretty much irreplaceable.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders