more freedom.....if you are going to compare the freedom of TES games to the freedom in this game, you are free, while bound to chains in a small box. These devs try so hard to make it sound like TES I really don't think its possible for them not to talk out their backsides.
Describe your game the way it IS and not the way you need it to SOUND to TES fans.
Originally posted by JJ82
The game also uses invisible walls to block off the rest of the world while attempting to use old phrases like "open world".
So yeah, actually you can compare it to Asheons Call, because it really was an open world, where you could go anywhere with your character. Which you cant in TESO.
TESO is trying to be everything to everyone and lying their backsides off while doing it.
Please, stop phrasing things like you are speaking for TES fans. You are only speaking for yourself. Not every fan of the Elder Scrolls cares about exactly the same elements of those games. Anybody who tries to claim that because they like or dislike ESO, that means that TES fans as a group are going to share that opinion, is just spouting BS. I also haven't noticed anything from Zenimax that indicates they are trying to be everything to everybody. They have made no attempt to claim the game is a sandbox, for instance.
Originally posted by JJ82
True, instanced does not mean smaller. Its size in total that matters, or at least would if it was actually open world.
The real issue is that the developers are once again attempting to make the game sound more like TES games which they are not. The TES games are completely open world where you can go anywhere at any time. You cannot do this in TESO though. The game may be as big as 3 TES games, but TESO is split off into so many pieces you cant go to that their doing this smacks of ever more desperation to get TES fans suckered into making the buy.
And no, opening up other factions lands at level 50 for your own instance of it does not make up for this bastardization process created to fit the limits of its base PvP design. Maybe if the game did not have a subscription there would be justification in creating ever more closed off parts of the game keeping you away from the gaming population. Walls walls and more walls, may as well have just made another normal TES game, with an online multiplayer PvP battleground option. At least then we would have gotten the typical great TES story, world, combat, modding and everything you get with a TES game.
I don't think there is a single TES game where you can go anywhere at any time. You can go to any completely irrelevant location at any time, but a very large portion of the locations involved in the actual quests have doors which require keys which you can't get unless you are on the quest in question. Being able to go to a location doesn't matter unless you can actually do something after you get there.
Honestly, you are just coming across as someone who doesn't want there to be an Elder Scrolls MMO at all, not someone who wants it designed in a different way. If you don't want to play one anyway, why do you care how it is designed?
Originally posted by rodarin
THATS what ES was based on, running around and actually exploring.
No. That's something that the Elder Scrolls games include, just like they include many other elements. Just because it's the element you care most about, that doesn't mean that is a universal opinion.
Originally posted by JJ82
The phrase OPEN WORLD means one thing. The WORLD is open. Not part of the world is open, not its open after this point, or that point and up until another point.
If there are invisible walls blocking you, the world isn't open.
You are not phased from the other alliances lands. You are blocked. You cant go there until you "unlock" them, and until that time they are blocked off. That is not open world. PvP is behind a wall, you cant get there, it isn't phased because its not part of the rest of the world.
So, until they stop using meanings that don't apply, I WILL compare them to the games that are ACTUALLY fitting those phrases.
It's not a binary choice, it's a scale. One game can be more or less open world than another. Even if ESO ends up less open world than most of the other Elder Scrolls games, that doesn't mean it isn't more open world than most MMOs, especially other MMOs with a defined narrative.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
The game also uses invisible walls to block off the rest of the world while attempting to use old phrases like "open world".
So yeah, actually you can compare it to Asheons Call, because it really was an open world, where you could go anywhere with your character. Which you cant in TESO.
TESO is trying to be everything to everyone and lying their backsides off while doing it.
I really have to ask: Did you even play TESO past level 15?
Originally posted by ste2000 I can confirm what the dev said, the world is huge indeed
No it's not, it's an instanced zoning word, even within each faction area you are zoning between areas. You cannot go where you want within the world and to top it all it's made of many instances.
Vanguards world of Telon is huge not ESO lol.
Except Vanguard is also cut up into zones or in its case " chunks " and each time you cross one there is a pause for it to load. It is pretty quick being only a second or 2 though but it is still the same.
The world in TESO is huge.. It doesnt matter if there is a loading screen between each area. You can quickly lose hours of playtime by just roaming around in ES fashion in one of the early areas. In fact that is what happened to me.
And everything is made of pixels, lol. There is a difference between loading screens and seemless world where engine loads more data every so often. TES world is small in comparison to Vanguard's no matter how you will try to spin it, lol
Vanguard isnt seamless because it has the loading chunks. Seamless would be 100% no loading ever. In Vanguard the chunks are zone lines. Not seamless.
Your argument is senseless.
The fact is that every game including EQ2 still has chunks. The problem is that Vanguard used a engine that had to load a full chunk up front and not broken into very small pieces for background processing. Engines that are streaming are by your definition not seamless but yet I can show you that they are fully seamless to the limits of your hard drive.
The game also uses invisible walls to block off the rest of the world while attempting to use old phrases like "open world".
So yeah, actually you can compare it to Asheons Call, because it really was an open world, where you could go anywhere with your character. Which you cant in TESO.
TESO is trying to be everything to everyone and lying their backsides off while doing it.
I really have to ask: Did you even play TESO past level 15?
or 10 for that matter
lol, I would say he is mad because he didn't get into beta yet.
Originally posted by ste2000 I can confirm what the dev said, the world is huge indeed
No it's not, it's an instanced zoning word, even within each faction area you are zoning between areas. You cannot go where you want within the world and to top it all it's made of many instances.
Vanguards world of Telon is huge not ESO lol.
Except Vanguard is also cut up into zones or in its case " chunks " and each time you cross one there is a pause for it to load. It is pretty quick being only a second or 2 though but it is still the same.
The world in TESO is huge.. It doesnt matter if there is a loading screen between each area. You can quickly lose hours of playtime by just roaming around in ES fashion in one of the early areas. In fact that is what happened to me.
And everything is made of pixels, lol. There is a difference between loading screens and seemless world where engine loads more data every so often. TES world is small in comparison to Vanguard's no matter how you will try to spin it, lol
Vanguard isnt seamless because it has the loading chunks. Seamless would be 100% no loading ever. In Vanguard the chunks are zone lines. Not seamless.
Your argument is senseless.
The fact is that every game including EQ2 still has chunks. The problem is that Vanguard used a engine that had to load a full chunk up front and not broken into very small pieces for background processing. Engines that are streaming are by your definition not seamless but yet I can show you that they are fully seamless to the limits of your hard drive.
SMH. Now the argument as changed about what seamless is. You lost. Get over it. Vanguard is not seamless.
SMH. Now the argument as changed about what seamless is. You lost. Get over it. Vanguard is not seamless.
No I didn't lose anything. Vanguard is seamless like any other gridded out world. Unreal engine just runs like crap when you start using area streaming. Unity is fairly good with the pro version for chunks but they have to be really small just like Hero Engines seamless linking which runs like crap if you grid a world.
There are real streaming engines but that's completely another discussion.
TESO is either gridded out or streaming even if it's still broken into all these little zones. Hopefully they do a better job than Vanguard.
To address the topic title, no lead developer with half a brain woudl say his game is crap and his world is small...
Even if the world was the size of the post stamp, the lead dev would still say that it's huge.
Well, he could say it's not the size of the wave that's important, it's the motion of the ocean.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Originally posted by Mr.Kujo Really depends on how character relates to the world. If character is faster than in Skyrim, and you get on a even faster mount map may feel 10x smaller than in older games...
Could use a bard, skald, and or minstrel. But wait, all the classes are the same in each realm so....lol.
Originally posted by Mr.Kujo Really depends on how character relates to the world. If character is faster than in Skyrim, and you get on a even faster mount map may feel 10x smaller than in older games...
I don't agree with this. Sounds like someone trying to dig up hate. This is like saying that the Earth shrinks as you speed up in your car.
No, he said "feels". And if you walk, drive or fly to California from New York the feel of the distance will certainly change depending on your travel mode.
The game also uses invisible walls to block off the rest of the world while attempting to use old phrases like "open world".
So yeah, actually you can compare it to Asheons Call, because it really was an open world, where you could go anywhere with your character. Which you cant in TESO.
TESO is trying to be everything to everyone and lying their backsides off while doing it.
I really have to ask: Did you even play TESO past level 15?
or 10 for that matter
lol, I would say he is mad because he didn't get into beta yet.
SMH. Now the argument as changed about what seamless is. You lost. Get over it. Vanguard is not seamless.
No I didn't lose anything. Vanguard is seamless like any other gridded out world. Unreal engine just runs like crap when you start using area streaming. Unity is fairly good with the pro version for chunks but they have to be really small just like Hero Engines seamless linking which runs like crap if you grid a world.There are real streaming engines but that's completely another discussion.TESO is either gridded out or streaming even if it's still broken into all these little zones. Hopefully they do a better job than Vanguard.
Dont waste your time, he has no idea about the thing but will litter this thread with more nonsense if not ignored.
Threw this together today. Kind of sums up how a lot of TES fans feel about this whole zone thing.
lol. Way to try and hype your game but shoot yourself in the foot.
Since we already know that each faction has its own lands that others cant enter, and there is three of them, the total area accessible per character is about the same area as Skyrim. Which is utterly inadequate for hosting thousands of players. The amount of instancing that will result will be horrid.
The game uses phasing.
I could also say the TESO world is nowhere as large as Asheron's Call but that is entirely pointless comparing to a game using phasing on a mega-server. There is a TON to talk about regarding TESO systems alone but evidently so many here know so little about this game they completely miss the major topics that SHOULD be talked about.
The game also uses invisible walls to block off the rest of the world while attempting to use old phrases like "open world".
So yeah, actually you can compare it to Asheons Call, because it really was an open world, where you could go anywhere with your character. Which you cant in TESO.
TESO is trying to be everything to everyone and lying their backsides off while doing it.
I really have to ask: Did you even play TESO past level 15?
As I said before, you can't compare TESO to Asheron's Call. AC didn't have phasing to spread out the population. That isn't it's only benefit. The main reason why phasing exists is to support the story and quest mechanics by allowing the world to change around the player based upon their actions. AC had very little actual questing and story when it came out. It's 1 month (as best as Turbine could do to stick to the schedule anyway) content additions effectively added the story ... it wasn't build in. It actually worked because the world was so massive and it had individual servers with finite players on each server. It created a game dramatically different and effectively made the game an early attempt at a sandbox game (the developers long ago admitted their tech limited them to much to truly match their original vision).
Yes you could run for an hour trying to cross the world (at running speeds comparable to epic flying mounts in some games) and this gave a great feeling of openness but in reality it wasn't much more than a mob grinding game as those open areas supported no story and no quests. It targeted players loving exploration. TESO isn't entirely that game. It is something different. Perhaps that is what upsets you.
I still do not understand the argument here. Obviously you think a large world is only measured by being larger than previous games effectively unconnected to TESO and it must absolutely be seamless. Where did Zenimax promise this? Perhaps you are simply arguing that you hoped the game was different than it is? This is a fruitless argument. You will forever be disappointed wishing something is different than it is in reality. To continue to do so places you among the crushed souls who continue to complain Swtor isn't a sandbox even though the game has been out for over 2 years and isn't going to be anything else other than what it is.
I've read over the majority of your arguments it mostly is centered around TESO not being entirely open and seemless yet every TES game prior was little more than one single large zone with no ability to go elsewhere (minus player made content). Each zone in TESO past starter zones still offer this exact same game play yet you actually CAN go beyond those boarders. So what exactly is your argument again? Did I miss the memo saying you could install Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim on your pc and suddenly you can walk seamlessly between those areas?
All I am reading is that you (and several others) are upset because TESO isn't the game you envisioned. Well, at the start of each season I envision my home team the Edmonton Oilers winning the Stanley cup as they did when I was a kid but they are in last %$@&;ing place right now so I choose to accept reality instead of smashing my head against the wall hoping for something that isn't reality.
Yes that bothers me because that too me is fun and was part of the appeal for all Elder Scrolls games. I love huge open worlds with lots of things to explore. Reason why Asheron's Call and Skyrim are my 2 favorite MMO's and RPG's of all time. SO sue me for getting a little nostalgia and wanting something akin to the those. I wouldn't even mind it if this was another game but being based on a beloved open world IP I presume to think open ended gameplay would be prevalent here as well.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Not trying to sound negative, but I would hope it would be larger considering it is an MMO. However, the 3 factions are going to severely limit to how big the world "Feels". Granted we can go to all of these places, but how many of them will we actually want to come back to? Not to mention the waypoint system that will let you surpass any area you have already been to plus a mount. You will be traversing the land faster than you can in even GW2.
In short, it seems as though this MMO is setup closer to a SWTOR type of leveling path than say a WoW/GW2 (Yes I feel that GW2 had a great leveling path, the world simply felt massive, granted the waypoints killed that feeling pretty quick.).
I'll buy it, play it, and see what I think. I have played every ESO game so far. Currently I'm digging FFXIV. I am looking forward to EQnext, ESO, Wildstar, Archeage, and a few others. Those I will defiantly buy regardless of what everyone says because I like to make my own opinion.
In this interview the lead game dev Nick Konkle talks about a lot of things, and mentions that the game world is absolutely massive and bigger than the previous 3 Elder Scrolls games combined. He also says that the map for Cyrodil is the same size as in Oblivion, not smaller at all. When asked about freedom he also states the first few levels are more linear but it quickly opens up to freedom Elder Scrolls fans are familiar with.
No, he didn't say that. I listened to literally the whole thing. One of the panel questioned whether it was bigger than all three combined and he did not say yes. He did mention Cyrodil being about the same size as the Oblivion map. He said he didn't know the exact numbers, but that the game was absolutely massive.
Originally posted by Sleepyfish Dark and Light had a large land mass. Wont really matter if the game is no good it can have a land mass the size of Saturn and no one will play it. If the game is great it can get by with an area the size of an island.
Ah someone else who remembers DnL. It was truly vast. Even flying a dragon and going at 300mph you could go 20 minutes without seeing another mob. Forget the postage sized worlds like Skyrim and even EQ1. And yes if you wanted you could walk.
Truly vast and almost totally empty except for a little bit around the starter area. Size is only a part of what makes a good game.
well if you fast travel in Skyrim, the world starts looking a lot smaller. In ESO you cant fast travel to nearly the same extent.
As far as being linear, well, any game with overarching quests can seem linear if you just go do the quests as fast as you can. If you just head out and explore and do stuff, it wouldn't be linear at all. A lot of folks simply do the main quests in a game as fast as they can, they don't explore, they don't do side quests, and naturally the game seems linear to them and quickly they begin complaining that they 'ran out of content', when really they just bypassed much of it.
if you would have seen beta forums you would feel very silly right now , your statement wrong in more than one way
In the beta. Been to the forums... through every single beta I've not been able to get to lvl 10 because I go off task and start exploring.
Originally posted by ste2000 I can confirm what the dev said, the world is huge indeed
No it's not, it's an instanced zoning word, even within each faction area you are zoning between areas. You cannot go where you want within the world and to top it all it's made of many instances.
Vanguards world of Telon is huge not ESO lol.
Yes it is, just because the world is divided into instanced zones, doesn't make the world any smaller
Vanguard was a huge non instanced world.
ESO is a huge instanced world.
They have both big worlds they are just executed in a different manner.
True, instanced does not mean smaller. Its size in total that matters, or at least would if it was actually open world.
The real issue is that the developers are once again attempting to make the game sound more like TES games which they are not. The TES games are completely open world where you can go anywhere at any time. You cannot do this in TESO though. The game may be as big as 3 TES games, but TESO is split off into so many pieces you cant go to that their doing this smacks of ever more desperation to get TES fans suckered into making the buy.
And no, opening up other factions lands at level 50 for your own instance of it does not make up for this bastardization process created to fit the limits of its base PvP design. Maybe if the game did not have a subscription there would be justification in creating ever more closed off parts of the game keeping you away from the gaming population. Walls walls and more walls, may as well have just made another normal TES game, with an online multiplayer PvP battleground option. At least then we would have gotten the typical great TES story, world, combat, modding and everything you get with a TES game.
Do people making these claims about TES games even play them? Where do you get the notion that they are "completely open worlds" insinuating there are no instances? The main game area might be but every city, house, castle, cave etc..requires entering an instance with a loading time that is not insignificant. Skyrim wasn't as bad as Oblivion but it's jarring to gameplay to wait 10+ seconds at times just to leave your house and then go 20 feet to a store and wait 10+ seconds again and then fast travel somewhere and wait 10+ seconds again. It's especially bad if you are crafting and trying to run around a city to access different shops or crafting tables but somehow ESO is worse?
The idea that TES is seamless and without instances is not the case. ESO might have the game world chopped up into more instances but at least they are nearly instant. I would rather have more instances with instant load times than fewer with longer load times. By your comments it sounds like you are just trying to complain about the game because you want it to be F2P.
Comments
I don't think there is a single TES game where you can go anywhere at any time. You can go to any completely irrelevant location at any time, but a very large portion of the locations involved in the actual quests have doors which require keys which you can't get unless you are on the quest in question. Being able to go to a location doesn't matter unless you can actually do something after you get there.
Honestly, you are just coming across as someone who doesn't want there to be an Elder Scrolls MMO at all, not someone who wants it designed in a different way. If you don't want to play one anyway, why do you care how it is designed?
No. That's something that the Elder Scrolls games include, just like they include many other elements. Just because it's the element you care most about, that doesn't mean that is a universal opinion. It's not a binary choice, it's a scale. One game can be more or less open world than another. Even if ESO ends up less open world than most of the other Elder Scrolls games, that doesn't mean it isn't more open world than most MMOs, especially other MMOs with a defined narrative.Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
or 10 for that matter
Your argument is senseless.
The fact is that every game including EQ2 still has chunks. The problem is that Vanguard used a engine that had to load a full chunk up front and not broken into very small pieces for background processing. Engines that are streaming are by your definition not seamless but yet I can show you that they are fully seamless to the limits of your hard drive.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
lol, I would say he is mad because he didn't get into beta yet.
SMH. Now the argument as changed about what seamless is. You lost. Get over it. Vanguard is not seamless.
No I didn't lose anything. Vanguard is seamless like any other gridded out world. Unreal engine just runs like crap when you start using area streaming. Unity is fairly good with the pro version for chunks but they have to be really small just like Hero Engines seamless linking which runs like crap if you grid a world.
There are real streaming engines but that's completely another discussion.
TESO is either gridded out or streaming even if it's still broken into all these little zones. Hopefully they do a better job than Vanguard.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
Well, he could say it's not the size of the wave that's important, it's the motion of the ocean.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Could use a bard, skald, and or minstrel. But wait, all the classes are the same in each realm so....lol.
No, he said "feels". And if you walk, drive or fly to California from New York the feel of the distance will certainly change depending on your travel mode.
It fucking better be, the maps from TES games are TINY for an MMO.
16 square miles ain't shit.
That would explain the ignorant statements
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
Yes that bothers me because that too me is fun and was part of the appeal for all Elder Scrolls games. I love huge open worlds with lots of things to explore. Reason why Asheron's Call and Skyrim are my 2 favorite MMO's and RPG's of all time. SO sue me for getting a little nostalgia and wanting something akin to the those. I wouldn't even mind it if this was another game but being based on a beloved open world IP I presume to think open ended gameplay would be prevalent here as well.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
Not trying to sound negative, but I would hope it would be larger considering it is an MMO. However, the 3 factions are going to severely limit to how big the world "Feels". Granted we can go to all of these places, but how many of them will we actually want to come back to? Not to mention the waypoint system that will let you surpass any area you have already been to plus a mount. You will be traversing the land faster than you can in even GW2.
In short, it seems as though this MMO is setup closer to a SWTOR type of leveling path than say a WoW/GW2 (Yes I feel that GW2 had a great leveling path, the world simply felt massive, granted the waypoints killed that feeling pretty quick.).
(-_-)
No, he didn't say that. I listened to literally the whole thing. One of the panel questioned whether it was bigger than all three combined and he did not say yes. He did mention Cyrodil being about the same size as the Oblivion map. He said he didn't know the exact numbers, but that the game was absolutely massive.
Please don't spread lies.
Ah someone else who remembers DnL. It was truly vast. Even flying a dragon and going at 300mph you could go 20 minutes without seeing another mob. Forget the postage sized worlds like Skyrim and even EQ1. And yes if you wanted you could walk.
Truly vast and almost totally empty except for a little bit around the starter area. Size is only a part of what makes a good game.
In the beta. Been to the forums... through every single beta I've not been able to get to lvl 10 because I go off task and start exploring.
So... not really sure what you're babbling about.
Do people making these claims about TES games even play them? Where do you get the notion that they are "completely open worlds" insinuating there are no instances? The main game area might be but every city, house, castle, cave etc..requires entering an instance with a loading time that is not insignificant. Skyrim wasn't as bad as Oblivion but it's jarring to gameplay to wait 10+ seconds at times just to leave your house and then go 20 feet to a store and wait 10+ seconds again and then fast travel somewhere and wait 10+ seconds again. It's especially bad if you are crafting and trying to run around a city to access different shops or crafting tables but somehow ESO is worse?
The idea that TES is seamless and without instances is not the case. ESO might have the game world chopped up into more instances but at least they are nearly instant. I would rather have more instances with instant load times than fewer with longer load times. By your comments it sounds like you are just trying to complain about the game because you want it to be F2P.