I think WildStar and Elder Scrolls Online will be some of the last major Theme Parks that we'll see for quite some time.
People said the same thing about GW2 and TOR.
And before that, I'm pretty sure they said the same thing about AoC and WAR.
Er, not they did not. With TOR, it was the turning point in the genre for sure, but TESO and WS were already announced, so why would people think they were the last ones?
I agree that the genre is dying, but doubt that the reason is on the gamer's site nor is it any payment model's fault The genre started to die when after an era of "games made by gamers for gamers" one day the suits took over and tried to produce quarterly numbers instead of great games, releasing titles the players rejected.
Stop making clones which embrace 15yr old mechanics, titles that insult every player's intelligence or just reek of publisher greed.
Give us an adventure that's worth playing and you'll again have a success unheard of since WoW. The genre will continue to go down crap creek until someone stops to produce and starts to innovate instead.
This is more or less true, and what the OP said.
The original MMOs, that were so successful where modern MMOs weren't, were designed by people who loved fantasy games, D&D, and spent their time designing MUDs and other virtual worlds, because that's what they wanted to do in life.
They wanted to bring their fantasy worlds to life. That's what EQ was. DAoC was the culmination of Mythic bringing their past MUDs into 3D space. They targeted an audience, a niche audience, and made a game they knew they'd like to play. And they were unique.
Modern MMOs have none of these things, and the added threat of publishers.
Appealing to multiple millions has never, and never again will be, a viable strategy.
No appealing to millions does and has worked.
It worked with WoW because its a fluke, never again in the west.
Originally posted by Covet78 How are they dying if 50 million people all over the world are currently playing mmo's.
Most of those games people call MMOs aren't MMOs in my opinion.
To be mmo is kinda simple just have massive amount of players that can interact with each other. Now labels like sandbox and rpg can get little tricky.
Specially when everyone has a different idea of what a sandbox is and isn't. RPG might be a little easier but still a lot of differing thoughts there as well.
Originally posted by NagelRitter I don't think it's dying as much as it's becoming a less and less viable cash cow. Which is a good thing in my eyes.
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal I don't think the genre is dying. You just have to hope the games start catering to a wider range of players.
What? The games need to be catering to smaller ranges, not wider ones. Catering to everyone is what is making them so terrible.
He means the genre as a whole not a single game.
Yes. WoW would have likely been successful even if it was a sandbox. Outside of ease of use, I think Battlenet and the already online fanboy base Blizzard has was the most important aspect of bring in the huge numbers. I think its been shown the success simply can not be replicated.
Its time to start catering to some of the left behind players and also expanding the genre before it does collapse on itself. Seems horrible that majority of the people I gamed with mostly have quit the genre.
How many left behind players do you think actually exist? Of those left behind players, how many do you think would actually come back? For that matter, how many of them do you think would be happy with the same game?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I agree that the genre is dying, but doubt that the reason is on the gamer's site nor is it any payment model's fault The genre started to die when after an era of "games made by gamers for gamers" one day the suits took over and tried to produce quarterly numbers instead of great games, releasing titles the players rejected.
Stop making clones which embrace 15yr old mechanics, titles that insult every player's intelligence or just reek of publisher greed.
Give us an adventure that's worth playing and you'll again have a success unheard of since WoW. The genre will continue to go down crap creek until someone stops to produce and starts to innovate instead.
This is more or less true, and what the OP said.
The original MMOs, that were so successful where modern MMOs weren't, were designed by people who loved fantasy games, D&D, and spent their time designing MUDs and other virtual worlds, because that's what they wanted to do in life.
They wanted to bring their fantasy worlds to life. That's what EQ was. DAoC was the culmination of Mythic bringing their past MUDs into 3D space. They targeted an audience, a niche audience, and made a game they knew they'd like to play. And they were unique.
Modern MMOs have none of these things, and the added threat of publishers.
Appealing to multiple millions has never, and never again will be, a viable strategy.
No appealing to millions does and has worked.
It worked with WoW because its a fluke, never again in the west.
WoW is not a fluke. It was designed so that the casual guy that didn't have the time and/or the skill to cut it in EQ and DOAC would have a game where they could. In short, they catered to the casual gamer and there always was, is and will be more of them than hardcore 40+ hours a week types. Do the math and you end up with WoW. Now put the suits in charge being pushed by stockholders and you get the crap we have been forced to deal with ever since.
The idea that game companies will produce a product for anything other than $$$$ is ignant (yes, I misspelled it on purpose). It's a noble thought but we aren't anywhere near a Star Trek type of society.
Originally posted by NagelRitter I don't think it's dying as much as it's becoming a less and less viable cash cow. Which is a good thing in my eyes.
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal I don't think the genre is dying. You just have to hope the games start catering to a wider range of players.
What? The games need to be catering to smaller ranges, not wider ones. Catering to everyone is what is making them so terrible.
He means the genre as a whole not a single game.
Yes. WoW would have likely been successful even if it was a sandbox. Outside of ease of use, I think Battlenet and the already online fanboy base Blizzard has was the most important aspect of bring in the huge numbers. I think its been shown the success simply can not be replicated.
Its time to start catering to some of the left behind players and also expanding the genre before it does collapse on itself. Seems horrible that majority of the people I gamed with mostly have quit the genre.
How many left behind players do you think actually exist? Of those left behind players, how many do you think would actually come back? For that matter, how many of them do you think would be happy with the same game?
I think most people I know personally who have given up do keep some hope that the genre will return to something more akin to the first generation of MMORPGs.
But that said how do developers truly know that current gamers would never try something a large majority of them have never tried?
In the end it boils down to having to accept you are not in the target audience of the big AAA MMOs anymore.
Yes, it's tough not being the centre of the universe anymore, but that's what niche games are for. To serve these niche audiences.
Let the big games be shallow and serve the mass audience (you can't change it anyway), and focus on those games that are actually targeting you and support them. You'll be happier.
The market is starting to shift again and niche games are on the rise, so there is hope.
The MMO genre is dying, but not for ANY of the reasons the OP listed. (though Publishers are a huge problem w/ video games in general).
The reason the MMO genre is 'dying', is because all genres are becoming MMOs. The MMO as a 'genre' is being diffused across all other gameplay types. MMOs will always be around, but they won't be their own thing anymore. We're already seeing this happen, as developers still want to create these massive worlds, but are trying to get away from the stigmas associated with MMO as a genre or label.
I agree that the genre is dying, but doubt that the reason is on the gamer's site nor is it any payment model's fault The genre started to die when after an era of "games made by gamers for gamers" one day the suits took over and tried to produce quarterly numbers instead of great games, releasing titles the players rejected.
Stop making clones which embrace 15yr old mechanics, titles that insult every player's intelligence or just reek of publisher greed.
Give us an adventure that's worth playing and you'll again have a success unheard of since WoW. The genre will continue to go down crap creek until someone stops to produce and starts to innovate instead.
This is more or less true, and what the OP said.
The original MMOs, that were so successful where modern MMOs weren't, were designed by people who loved fantasy games, D&D, and spent their time designing MUDs and other virtual worlds, because that's what they wanted to do in life.
They wanted to bring their fantasy worlds to life. That's what EQ was. DAoC was the culmination of Mythic bringing their past MUDs into 3D space. They targeted an audience, a niche audience, and made a game they knew they'd like to play. And they were unique.
Modern MMOs have none of these things, and the added threat of publishers.
Appealing to multiple millions has never, and never again will be, a viable strategy.
No appealing to millions does and has worked.
It worked with WoW because its a fluke, never again in the west.
WoW is not a fluke. It was designed so that the casual guy that didn't have the time and/or the skill to cut it in EQ and DOAC would have a game where they could. In short, they catered to the casual gamer and there always was, is and will be more of them than hardcore 40+ hours a week types. Do the math and you end up with WoW. Now put the suits in charge being pushed by stockholders and you get the crap we have been forced to deal with ever since.
The idea that game companies will produce a product for anything other than $$$$ is ignant (yes, I misspelled it on purpose). It's a noble thought but we aren't anywhere near a Star Trek type of society.
IMO Blizzard being the maker had far more to do with it than the game itself. Its success wasn't a fluke but in that it was a pure accident though I doubt they assumed they would get those numbers.
1. It had an easy to use gameplay formula.
2. Had cult following in battlenet players who were already online.
3. It had no peer to its modern UI and clean gameplay.
I seriously doubt WoW would have been successful if they didn't have the Craft series and Diablo and battlenet players who were already online gamers.
I agree that the genre is dying, but doubt that the reason is on the gamer's site nor is it any payment model's fault The genre started to die when after an era of "games made by gamers for gamers" one day the suits took over and tried to produce quarterly numbers instead of great games, releasing titles the players rejected.
Stop making clones which embrace 15yr old mechanics, titles that insult every player's intelligence or just reek of publisher greed.
Give us an adventure that's worth playing and you'll again have a success unheard of since WoW. The genre will continue to go down crap creek until someone stops to produce and starts to innovate instead.
This is more or less true, and what the OP said.
The original MMOs, that were so successful where modern MMOs weren't, were designed by people who loved fantasy games, D&D, and spent their time designing MUDs and other virtual worlds, because that's what they wanted to do in life.
They wanted to bring their fantasy worlds to life. That's what EQ was. DAoC was the culmination of Mythic bringing their past MUDs into 3D space. They targeted an audience, a niche audience, and made a game they knew they'd like to play. And they were unique.
Modern MMOs have none of these things, and the added threat of publishers.
Appealing to multiple millions has never, and never again will be, a viable strategy.
No appealing to millions does and has worked.
It worked with WoW because its a fluke, never again in the west.
WoW is not a fluke. It was designed so that the casual guy that didn't have the time and/or the skill to cut it in EQ and DOAC would have a game where they could.
There were many MMOs at the time that catered to casual gamers, and even DAoC could be played casually. That's not the main thing that made the game a success. What made it a success was having the name, company, and money to reach the casual audience and become the first mainstream MMO. After that, the name has kept them alive. It's a fluke of timing that can't be repeated. That's what makes a fluke.
Most new games coming fall under this genre so I wouldn't say it's going anywhere anytime soon.
Yeah, developers no longer want their game labeled as a MMO because to a large percentage of gamers MMO equal very boring tab targeted combat. Bungie is really careful to never refer to Destiny as a MMO for fear it will turn off a large percentage of possible customers. So we will see "MMO features" added to games, but relatively few games advertised as a MMO.
The games that will be advertised as MMOs will be niche market games for the most part. Certain current market games such as WoW & SWToR will continue making money as well.
To be honest I don't think the genre is dying and it seems a lot of people agree with me. I will agree however with the statement that the lines between the different types of mmo's are being blurred. The gameplay styles have certainly changed and I think that is one reason for some people to feel that the genre is dying.
I think on this site there have been an overwhelmingly large amount of posts saying that there is a problem with the genre. Then there are a ton of replies to that post either agreeing with the statement to a point or others flaming them saying that their "Elitiest Jerks" or "nestalgic" because they are looking for something else. IMO they're not elitest jerks looking for a return to the "Hay-day" of mmo's but people who are looking for that fleeting feeling you get from a MMO that your completely infatuated with. One that allows you to completely immerse yourself with to the point of thinking about it throughout the day till you can play and looking up everything you can just to have some of that feeling when your not playing it.
I think most people would agree that that is whats missing from the current stock of MMO's. There is no real immersion factor so people get bored and move on. Now that's a completely personal preference to say there isn't a game out there that does that, because each game hits each of us differently. But from all the posts I have read over the week or two that I have been coming to this site on the regular, thats the feeling I get, and in all honesty agree with.
I'm wishing, waiting and looking for those games that I can get lost in with some friends (either online or IRL) for a couple years. Something where I might not hit a lvl in a week but I might have a blast doing 1 or 2 open world dungeon crawls with a group of friends. The games were there isn't hand holding and you can't solo everything, in my belief, made those worlds more real and made the time spent in them with those other people absolutely magical.
Personally I think if people are really upset with how the MMO's that are coming out now are being released, all you have to do is look in the mirror. Those of us that played UO, EQ and DAoC back in the day are the ones that did it. We asked for a bit more intuitive interface, more quests and worthwhile rewards, easier ways to find groups and over all easier games.
The companies just took those ideas and ran, flew, jump, sprinted and drove through what we thought was good and went beyond. There's not one person I know that played one of those older MMO's and didn't at one time say, "Man I wish they made __________ easier, this crap is B*lls**t!!"
Personally, after hearing about this new kickstarter grouping game that starts with a P, sorry the name escapes me, I can't wait and will definitely be following it as much as I am with Camelot Unchained. I'm excited for the future, the present imo isn't that great, but hey we did it to ourselves.
The genre's not dieing, it's evolving, we all just have to have some patients and see what it turns into rather than flaming on forums.
The problem with WOW is WOW. It evolved into it's current state to keep players interested and bring in new blood. Blizzard was quite aware that even though the game was simple by EQ Veteran standards back in vanilla, it was still difficult for some. In each expansion, they've streamlined talents, combine talents, removed them, and even totally reworked the system (hi, MOTP). All because they want the game to be more "fun" for those that don't want to sit there and try to make complex choices.
Other developers realize the same problem. Difficult games are great for some of us and we enjoy them. Bring in the new generation of "gimme gimme gimme" and the first time gamers like a 60-yr old grandma who wants to play with her grandchildren, then you're left with a choice: Design a game for those that will stick around for a while, or design a game for those that will "beat it" and quit in about 3-months.
The genre isn't dying. It is entering it's next evolution.
I've always wondered what a polished turd like WOW would evolve into. Maybe a polished turd with a hint of roses?
Raquelis in various games Played: Everything Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6 Wants: The World Anticipating:Everquest NextCrowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
Dying or dead in the sense that games like EQ1 or UO are no longer made but that has been the case since 2005. Perhaps those type of games will continue to come out every once in a while much like platformers and side scrollers are still made but just don't dominate the sales charts like they used to.
Personally I'm waiting for the next evolution and I believe we are at the cusp. Games like Everquest Next and Landmark promise to deliver a new experience that is emergent and unpredictable. Plus new technologies like the Oculcus Rift set to disrupt how we think of video games and even reality.
Originally posted by simsalabim77 Yep. MMO's are dying. The market has only been showing growth for like the past decade so clearly it's dying. MMO's are dying for a specific type of player i.e. the guys and gals who have been playing these games for 15 years who think it's the developers and games fault that they can't enjoy MMO's anymore.
Well hello Captain Assumption!
I have been playing MMORPG's since 1999 when I started playing EQ1. I've played MANY since then. But, I haven't played one in the past...eh, going on 2 years now. Why?
Because they are all the same themepark cookie cutter game to me. Nothing in them to grab me and keep me playing. However, I have been in a few betas lately and I must say that a couple of them have me eagerly awaitng release...and deciding which one I want to play. I haven't been this excited to play something SINCE EQ1...and that is saying a lot.
Originally posted by simsalabim77 Yep. MMO's are dying. The market has only been showing growth for like the past decade so clearly it's dying. MMO's are dying for a specific type of player i.e. the guys and gals who have been playing these games for 15 years who think it's the developers and games fault that they can't enjoy MMO's anymore.
Well hello Captain Assumption!
I have been playing MMORPG's since 1999 when I started playing EQ1. I've played MANY since then. But, I haven't played one in the past...eh, going on 2 years now. Why?
Because they are all the same themepark cookie cutter game to me. nothing in them to grab me and keep me playing. However, I have been in a few betas lately and I must say that a couple of them have me eagerly awaitng release...and deciding which one I want to play. I haven't been this excited to play something SINCE EQ1...and that is saying a lot.
Thumbs up to this ^^^. I would add that even if one did play any of the more recent MMOs, they would find little to no difference other then the skin and UI. Additionally, the poor execution of so-called content once you max a character in level and finish the story is just plain boring. There is no excitement or reason to stay with an MMO once into so-called "end game".
MMOs are not a genre, that is where your thinking is flawed. Also this topic has been done to death. Fundamentally game makers keep trying to either actively label themselves as an MMO or actively avoid it for the exact same reasons. All of the boons and burdens attached to that moniker...
I agree that the genre is dying, but doubt that the reason is on the gamer's site nor is it any payment model's fault The genre started to die when after an era of "games made by gamers for gamers" one day the suits took over and tried to produce quarterly numbers instead of great games, releasing titles the players rejected.
Stop making clones which embrace 15yr old mechanics, titles that insult every player's intelligence or just reek of publisher greed.
Give us an adventure that's worth playing and you'll again have a success unheard of since WoW. The genre will continue to go down crap creek until someone stops to produce and starts to innovate instead.
So much this, and I would even go as far to say that this is true for a lot of video games of today, and not just MMOs. It always seems like developers just want to make great games, but there's always some suits to step in at the last moment to end all the hype and make changes to the game that leave us with a sour taste in our mouths and cause the game to do poorly. They should stop listening to suits and listen to developers more. Or suits need to learn about video games and stop dooming them to fail. One has to wonder how good someone is at business if they don't seem to understand the customer base and dooms games to fail.
Originally posted by simsalabim77 Yep. MMO's are dying. The market has only been showing growth for like the past decade so clearly it's dying. MMO's are dying for a specific type of player i.e. the guys and gals who have been playing these games for 15 years who think it's the developers and games fault that they can't enjoy MMO's anymore.
Well hello Captain Assumption!
I have been playing MMORPG's since 1999 when I started playing EQ1. I've played MANY since then. But, I haven't played one in the past...eh, going on 2 years now. Why?
Because they are all the same themepark cookie cutter game to me. nothing in them to grab me and keep me playing. However, I have been in a few betas lately and I must say that a couple of them have me eagerly awaitng release...and deciding which one I want to play. I haven't been this excited to play something SINCE EQ1...and that is saying a lot.
Some of the betas I've been in have me quite interested. I'll stop short of saying excited though. Last time I was truly excited for a release was Shadowbane.
Beyond that, some of the other announcements have me frothing for a beta or more info. EQN, WAR 40K, and even McQuaid's next attempt to fail.
Raquelis in various games Played: Everything Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6 Wants: The World Anticipating:Everquest NextCrowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
And what we have here, ladies and gentlemen, is a generation of burnt out gamers who refuse that they are indeed A) burnt out, not the center of the mmo universe anymore and C) far too invested in the 'good old days' to see anything beyond their nose.
Not all games have to appeal to you. That doesn't make them "trash" or "garbage." It makes it "not your cuppa tea." Unsuccessful games die. Period. Gaming companies aren't running a charity. A game that might be turning a profit could potentially die to make room for another cash cow, but there is no circumstance where a game that is a financial black hole would keep running for years on end.
Doesn't matter if it had to drop a subscription. Or merge servers (100% retention rate is a fantasy anyway). It's still running? Proclaiming it a failure is either intellectually dishonest, or hilariously subjective opinion.
I love how at first every 'new' thing was derided as being buzzwords and now here we are, years later where if games aren't sufficiently "innovative" (with absolutely no clue, hint or idea what that actually means) they are automatically "bad." Because. Something. Apparently.
"Sick of the gear treadmill of WoW!" Some cry. And yet when there are MMOs that do away with it entirely we get "There's no progression!" How ironic that EQ2, a game that actually has a fair amount of customization and end game progression via AAs and lauded for it is described in another similar thread as non existent.
"Don't want quest hubs!" And GW2 had to implement the Renown Hearts cause beta testers couldn't figure out what to do. And now we are at "Even bigger theme park than WoW" and "quest hub system." Can't win. Wildstar? Quest hub system. Any cries of WoW clone on that from the previous detractors of GW2? Bueler?
TESO that tries to emulate Skyrim in it's questing is a WoW clone and not a Skyrim clone though! You know, because people don't like the idea and Skyrim clone is too much of a compliment.
"Full targeting!" Cause the action combat that plain didn't exist in MMOs before (how's that for no innovation?) isn't good enough unless you have to manually aim everything. Except not if you suffer lag or latency. Or one of those complainers that don't like the "twitch based" gaming.
TL;DR The point is, either find something you enjoy. Design something you would enjoy. Build something you would enjoy. Or don't play. Stop puking subjective standards and vote with your wallet. Stop insulting others who don't enjoy the same things you do. Stop insulting the developers who break their backs in crunch time building these games. Stop insulting the people are are actually putting their money where their mouth is.
You're burnt out. Everything looks the same after a few decades no matter what it is. Deal with it.
''The minecraft effect'' ? What the hell guys stop making shit up, its too early for mmo genre to even start dying, this has been a year with not many so great mmos to play but this doesnt show any signs of a whole genre dying. If you know anything about economics you'd know that things just dont disappear, may that be a currency or a whole game genre, so if something falls, something else rises, in this case please point me in the direction of what people will choose over mmos...
There is a whole new set of great mmos approaching, yeah I agree that expectations are higher now but that applies to every genre not just mmos
Comments
It worked with WoW because its a fluke, never again in the west.
Specially when everyone has a different idea of what a sandbox is and isn't. RPG might be a little easier but still a lot of differing thoughts there as well.
I love post like these because it's like hearing buggy whip makers hoping that cars will disappear and world will go back to what made sense for them.
How many left behind players do you think actually exist? Of those left behind players, how many do you think would actually come back? For that matter, how many of them do you think would be happy with the same game?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
WoW is not a fluke. It was designed so that the casual guy that didn't have the time and/or the skill to cut it in EQ and DOAC would have a game where they could. In short, they catered to the casual gamer and there always was, is and will be more of them than hardcore 40+ hours a week types. Do the math and you end up with WoW. Now put the suits in charge being pushed by stockholders and you get the crap we have been forced to deal with ever since.
The idea that game companies will produce a product for anything other than $$$$ is ignant (yes, I misspelled it on purpose). It's a noble thought but we aren't anywhere near a Star Trek type of society.
I think most people I know personally who have given up do keep some hope that the genre will return to something more akin to the first generation of MMORPGs.
But that said how do developers truly know that current gamers would never try something a large majority of them have never tried?
In the end it boils down to having to accept you are not in the target audience of the big AAA MMOs anymore.
Yes, it's tough not being the centre of the universe anymore, but that's what niche games are for. To serve these niche audiences.
Let the big games be shallow and serve the mass audience (you can't change it anyway), and focus on those games that are actually targeting you and support them. You'll be happier.
The market is starting to shift again and niche games are on the rise, so there is hope.
The MMO genre is dying, but not for ANY of the reasons the OP listed. (though Publishers are a huge problem w/ video games in general).
The reason the MMO genre is 'dying', is because all genres are becoming MMOs. The MMO as a 'genre' is being diffused across all other gameplay types. MMOs will always be around, but they won't be their own thing anymore. We're already seeing this happen, as developers still want to create these massive worlds, but are trying to get away from the stigmas associated with MMO as a genre or label.
IMO Blizzard being the maker had far more to do with it than the game itself. Its success wasn't a fluke but in that it was a pure accident though I doubt they assumed they would get those numbers.
1. It had an easy to use gameplay formula.
2. Had cult following in battlenet players who were already online.
3. It had no peer to its modern UI and clean gameplay.
I seriously doubt WoW would have been successful if they didn't have the Craft series and Diablo and battlenet players who were already online gamers.
There were many MMOs at the time that catered to casual gamers, and even DAoC could be played casually. That's not the main thing that made the game a success. What made it a success was having the name, company, and money to reach the casual audience and become the first mainstream MMO. After that, the name has kept them alive. It's a fluke of timing that can't be repeated. That's what makes a fluke.
MMO - stands for Massive Multiplayer Online Game
Most new games coming fall under this genre so I wouldn't say it's going anywhere anytime soon.
Yeah, developers no longer want their game labeled as a MMO because to a large percentage of gamers MMO equal very boring tab targeted combat. Bungie is really careful to never refer to Destiny as a MMO for fear it will turn off a large percentage of possible customers. So we will see "MMO features" added to games, but relatively few games advertised as a MMO.
The games that will be advertised as MMOs will be niche market games for the most part. Certain current market games such as WoW & SWToR will continue making money as well.
To be honest I don't think the genre is dying and it seems a lot of people agree with me. I will agree however with the statement that the lines between the different types of mmo's are being blurred. The gameplay styles have certainly changed and I think that is one reason for some people to feel that the genre is dying.
I think on this site there have been an overwhelmingly large amount of posts saying that there is a problem with the genre. Then there are a ton of replies to that post either agreeing with the statement to a point or others flaming them saying that their "Elitiest Jerks" or "nestalgic" because they are looking for something else. IMO they're not elitest jerks looking for a return to the "Hay-day" of mmo's but people who are looking for that fleeting feeling you get from a MMO that your completely infatuated with. One that allows you to completely immerse yourself with to the point of thinking about it throughout the day till you can play and looking up everything you can just to have some of that feeling when your not playing it.
I think most people would agree that that is whats missing from the current stock of MMO's. There is no real immersion factor so people get bored and move on. Now that's a completely personal preference to say there isn't a game out there that does that, because each game hits each of us differently. But from all the posts I have read over the week or two that I have been coming to this site on the regular, thats the feeling I get, and in all honesty agree with.
I'm wishing, waiting and looking for those games that I can get lost in with some friends (either online or IRL) for a couple years. Something where I might not hit a lvl in a week but I might have a blast doing 1 or 2 open world dungeon crawls with a group of friends. The games were there isn't hand holding and you can't solo everything, in my belief, made those worlds more real and made the time spent in them with those other people absolutely magical.
Personally I think if people are really upset with how the MMO's that are coming out now are being released, all you have to do is look in the mirror. Those of us that played UO, EQ and DAoC back in the day are the ones that did it. We asked for a bit more intuitive interface, more quests and worthwhile rewards, easier ways to find groups and over all easier games.
The companies just took those ideas and ran, flew, jump, sprinted and drove through what we thought was good and went beyond. There's not one person I know that played one of those older MMO's and didn't at one time say, "Man I wish they made __________ easier, this crap is B*lls**t!!"
Personally, after hearing about this new kickstarter grouping game that starts with a P, sorry the name escapes me, I can't wait and will definitely be following it as much as I am with Camelot Unchained. I'm excited for the future, the present imo isn't that great, but hey we did it to ourselves.
The genre's not dieing, it's evolving, we all just have to have some patients and see what it turns into rather than flaming on forums.
The problem with WOW is WOW. It evolved into it's current state to keep players interested and bring in new blood. Blizzard was quite aware that even though the game was simple by EQ Veteran standards back in vanilla, it was still difficult for some. In each expansion, they've streamlined talents, combine talents, removed them, and even totally reworked the system (hi, MOTP). All because they want the game to be more "fun" for those that don't want to sit there and try to make complex choices.
Other developers realize the same problem. Difficult games are great for some of us and we enjoy them. Bring in the new generation of "gimme gimme gimme" and the first time gamers like a 60-yr old grandma who wants to play with her grandchildren, then you're left with a choice: Design a game for those that will stick around for a while, or design a game for those that will "beat it" and quit in about 3-months.
The genre isn't dying. It is entering it's next evolution.
I've always wondered what a polished turd like WOW would evolve into. Maybe a polished turd with a hint of roses?
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
Personally I'm waiting for the next evolution and I believe we are at the cusp. Games like Everquest Next and Landmark promise to deliver a new experience that is emergent and unpredictable. Plus new technologies like the Oculcus Rift set to disrupt how we think of video games and even reality.
Well hello Captain Assumption!
I have been playing MMORPG's since 1999 when I started playing EQ1. I've played MANY since then. But, I haven't played one in the past...eh, going on 2 years now. Why?
Because they are all the same themepark cookie cutter game to me. Nothing in them to grab me and keep me playing. However, I have been in a few betas lately and I must say that a couple of them have me eagerly awaitng release...and deciding which one I want to play. I haven't been this excited to play something SINCE EQ1...and that is saying a lot.
http://www.superdataresearch.com/blog/us-digital-games-market/
TOR is making $139M in 2013. Not too shabby.
Sure .. traditional MMO may be dying but certainly not MOBA, ARPG, and newer online games like Destiny which some sites classify also as MMOs.
I am all for better games and wouldn't mind if traditional MMOs are gone.
Thumbs up to this ^^^. I would add that even if one did play any of the more recent MMOs, they would find little to no difference other then the skin and UI. Additionally, the poor execution of so-called content once you max a character in level and finish the story is just plain boring. There is no excitement or reason to stay with an MMO once into so-called "end game".
Let's party like it is 1863!
OP...
No.
MMOs are not a genre, that is where your thinking is flawed. Also this topic has been done to death. Fundamentally game makers keep trying to either actively label themselves as an MMO or actively avoid it for the exact same reasons. All of the boons and burdens attached to that moniker...
Yet still, NOT a genre.
So much this, and I would even go as far to say that this is true for a lot of video games of today, and not just MMOs. It always seems like developers just want to make great games, but there's always some suits to step in at the last moment to end all the hype and make changes to the game that leave us with a sour taste in our mouths and cause the game to do poorly. They should stop listening to suits and listen to developers more. Or suits need to learn about video games and stop dooming them to fail. One has to wonder how good someone is at business if they don't seem to understand the customer base and dooms games to fail.
Some of the betas I've been in have me quite interested. I'll stop short of saying excited though. Last time I was truly excited for a release was Shadowbane.
Beyond that, some of the other announcements have me frothing for a beta or more info. EQN, WAR 40K, and even McQuaid's next attempt to fail.
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
And what we have here, ladies and gentlemen, is a generation of burnt out gamers who refuse that they are indeed A) burnt out,
not the center of the mmo universe anymore and C) far too invested in the 'good old days' to see anything beyond their nose.
Not all games have to appeal to you. That doesn't make them "trash" or "garbage." It makes it "not your cuppa tea." Unsuccessful games die. Period. Gaming companies aren't running a charity. A game that might be turning a profit could potentially die to make room for another cash cow, but there is no circumstance where a game that is a financial black hole would keep running for years on end.
Doesn't matter if it had to drop a subscription. Or merge servers (100% retention rate is a fantasy anyway). It's still running? Proclaiming it a failure is either intellectually dishonest, or hilariously subjective opinion.
I love how at first every 'new' thing was derided as being buzzwords and now here we are, years later where if games aren't sufficiently "innovative" (with absolutely no clue, hint or idea what that actually means) they are automatically "bad." Because. Something. Apparently.
"Sick of the gear treadmill of WoW!" Some cry. And yet when there are MMOs that do away with it entirely we get "There's no progression!" How ironic that EQ2, a game that actually has a fair amount of customization and end game progression via AAs and lauded for it is described in another similar thread as non existent.
"Don't want quest hubs!" And GW2 had to implement the Renown Hearts cause beta testers couldn't figure out what to do. And now we are at "Even bigger theme park than WoW" and "quest hub system." Can't win. Wildstar? Quest hub system. Any cries of WoW clone on that from the previous detractors of GW2? Bueler?
TESO that tries to emulate Skyrim in it's questing is a WoW clone and not a Skyrim clone though! You know, because people don't like the idea and Skyrim clone is too much of a compliment.
"Full targeting!" Cause the action combat that plain didn't exist in MMOs before (how's that for no innovation?) isn't good enough unless you have to manually aim everything. Except not if you suffer lag or latency. Or one of those complainers that don't like the "twitch based" gaming.
TL;DR The point is, either find something you enjoy. Design something you would enjoy. Build something you would enjoy. Or don't play. Stop puking subjective standards and vote with your wallet. Stop insulting others who don't enjoy the same things you do. Stop insulting the developers who break their backs in crunch time building these games. Stop insulting the people are are actually putting their money where their mouth is.
You're burnt out. Everything looks the same after a few decades no matter what it is. Deal with it.
''The minecraft effect'' ? What the hell guys stop making shit up, its too early for mmo genre to even start dying, this has been a year with not many so great mmos to play but this doesnt show any signs of a whole genre dying. If you know anything about economics you'd know that things just dont disappear, may that be a currency or a whole game genre, so if something falls, something else rises, in this case please point me in the direction of what people will choose over mmos...
There is a whole new set of great mmos approaching, yeah I agree that expectations are higher now but that applies to every genre not just mmos