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Which mmos have/had the best or worst crafting ?
Tindale111
Member UncommonPosts: 276
My favourite game for crafting would have to be Vanguard with EQ2 a close 2nd .the worst 2 for me would be Swtor and no im not bashing the game just the crafting which is almost pointless and the new final fantasy (yes crafting is fun but again pointless as they make it way to easy for everyone ) Crafting for me anyway is one of the most important aspects of a game and is one of the main reasons I will stay in an mmo if done right .
Comments
best=FFXI/SWG
I cant seem to think of a worst one.
There is EVE and the rest, they are realy all the same.
Some MMOs such as Vanguard has mini games when crafting others have just combine these items press a button and it's made, so no they are not all the same.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
I rpefered Vanguard ... even above EQ2.. because in vanguard crafting did not require real time actions but tactical dessigens, it added a unique twist to the engine..
sadly vanguard was never finished as a game... and did not get the chance it deserved.
Really bogs me that none of all those MMO wannabees even tried something comparable to vanguard.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Of the 10 or 15 MMORPGs I played, I think that Fallen Earth has the best crafting. Insane number of recipes, lots of professions, crafting while offline and while questing, salvaging items to gain some of it's source materials. That certain items take several days to create also gives you a feeling of having an item that's worth something.
The worst crafting? Tabula Rasa had pretty bad crafting. World of Warcrafts crafting system is decent, though some professions really suck.
For me, to be fun, a good crafting system has to offer following features:
- lots of recipes
- being able to take items you don't need apart
- taking lots of time for complicated items
- being able to improve items
- most importantly: crafted items should be useful. I hate it when the average quest reward is better than the average crafting reward of the same level. What's the point then of crafting?
- discovering new recipes, not seeing all at once from the beginning
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
While the system itself wasn't the best, its value to the community made it rock. I am talking about crafting in LOTRO back in the older days. I really enjoyed it as it took a lot of dedication to level before they changed the tin and copper node spawn ratios for making bronze. I once had 1000 bronze ingots under the old spawn system, had more than enough gold for myself, so held a competition to give it away. 50 or more leveling crafters showed up to prove they were the most worthy in a talent show I judged from the roof of the inn in Bree... hilarious. Some sang, some danced and dueled, some told awful jokes... Some baked pies (game not real life.)
I can remember the bards that would follow us master crafters around in the crafting hall in Bree. I was an armor smith and people always wanted your service as it was the harder skill to level and they needed crests and quality gear. You were automatically a valued and respected community member for the skill back then. The bards would play for tips and it worked together brilliantly to help alleviate the tedium and make it seem like people had jobs outside of just killing stuff.
While I would end up crafting a ton of gear there would be enough crits to generate lots of blue rather than common items but the low level market was bad due to a lack of coin on that end. I would often give those items away in general rather than vendor them. People would remember you for that and come find you later for work as it really helped them level early on.
That's what made it cool for me. I developed a skill people valued and was able to do lots of cool stuff with it. The community respected and wanted you. After the node spawn change it wasn't as valued a skill anymore. Waste too much time crafting in the current crop of MMORPGs from other companies and you are liable to be a target of ridicule. It's a worthless skill devalued in the face of dungeon running.
I really miss games where crafters are honestly valued members of the community and would love to find another.
When it comes to the worst crafting, to me that would be TSW In that it was simply a utility skill for breaking down junk and turning it into something you need in the moment (like a med kit) where ever you happened to be rather than a profession people valued.
My personal favorite crafting was A tale in the desert. It required a lot of things to get something made and required multiple steps in order to make something.
Want a house? You need tiles for the roof, wood planks for the floors, bricks for the walls and thats just to get the outer part made. Naturally none of these drop in the world they need to be made from smaller components such as for wood planks you need to have wood, which you got from a tree. So to get boards you had to , peel enough off from the trees, then use a wood cutting machine, if you didn't have one of those you needed to make one which required other ingredients (no that machine doesn't drop in the world either). to turn that wood into wood planks. You had to do this with every ingredient of the thing you wanted to make. Find the base component for the machines you'll need first (because without the machines you are going nowhere) then build up from base components to the piece you need.
They also had mini games of sorts like charcoal making which either via bone fire you had to time (base on ticks) when to add wood or if you had a charcoal oven (yes it's a machine so the above applies) you had to regulate the vents, the wood, and the water. Btw you can't hold the water in your hand, they need to be in jugs (which yes you guessed it you needed to make the jugs as well, which required firing clay, (you need a shovel which is another machine type thing for getting the clay out) in a kiln which is also a machine you need to make. so you can get the jugs to fill with water so you can make charcoal which you'll need either for another machine or an end product).
All of this could be made easier by being part of a guild (you weren't restricted to one) which had these machines but like the charcoal oven you still needed to understand how it works or you're just going to burn up all the wood and water and waste time.
This was one of the more complex systems of crafting i've ever seen but you need patiences when you realize the thing you need requires 15 steps 8 machines and 6 hours of constant crafting (not counting mistakes or building for the machines) to do. Also limestone digging, talk about needing to know how that works, as the things you need to attempt to dig required time as well. This isn't including that crafting was required in order to unlock skills for yourself or the people in the world (they were free once unlocked but they required massive amounts of materials to open for everyone). My biggest gripe with this game and as far as i can tell it's still going on was that they break it up into tales (hence the name of the game i suppose) and thus when a new one starts they undo almost everything. I understand that it's required to keep the competition going and to not make it so incredibly difficult for new players (one of the tests (passing them is how you progressed, sort of a crude leveling system) requires you to beat the previous ones height by about 1 inch i think), but it's still annoying to see all your hard work just undone.
As for worse, I ca't really judge on good or bad, i suppose one that doesn't affect the economy at all would be worse but every crafting system affects it in some way, I'd prefer to go with what was the most annoying one to deal with and for me that was EQ's, before you jump me it's because I was a spell caster and having several hours worth of work undone by a simple fail was annoying as heck especially when i needed this to actually function correctly in combat (I failed a spell that slowed enemy attacks like 6 times once, that was like a week and a half of time just lost regrinding materials).
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I think that EvE has some pretty horrible crafting, they just do an amazing job at designing the logistics required for it that it more than makes up for it.
I really liked crafting in Haven and Hearth. Everything being player made, and all character advancement based on crafting(food for stats, curios for LP/Lessons/Exp), your play also advances more with the crafting "tech tree" than anything else. Along with some nice town building and similar.
Wurmonline, grindy as can be. But at the highest settings the environment can be pretty, with extensive ways to modify it with their town making/terraforming/crafting mechanics.
Ryzom being able to extensively modify stats of gear, to the extent that it can completely change your play style. It's pretty sweet, if a bit lacking in other game mechanics to shift it towards a MMO-sandbox rather than a GTA/Skyrim style sandbox.
________
Worst World of Everclone crafting that ties crafting to advancement, essentially delagating the crafting game play style to gathering only. Since the mass item dumps results in players losing money through crafting. Further more by the time you can craft something, leveling game mechanics result in anything you can craft to being useless(With normal play).
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
EQII and EvE have the best crafting for different reasons. EQII has stats that go with their crafting and stat gear, which is very RPG related and appreciated. EvE a player can make everything, from the struts to the bolts.
WoW has some of the worst crafting, as it's the same thing done for the nth time in so many expansions, and gotten to the point it's worthless in the end (all to satisfy the weak egos of raiders who really shouldn't even call themselves that as they're point blank carrieds -- after the Dream Paragon exploit scandal I have zero respect to the whole WoW raiding scene, especially how they were so lightly punished for cheating [they knew of the exploit from PTR but never reported it, claiming it was necessary to win as OTHER TOP raid teams also knew of the exploit]).
Best crafting MMOs has the best gear that is crafted...BUT...to get there takes a long time, making it worthwhile to be a mastercrafter (and to weed out the gold sellers and 1hr insta-master exploiters).
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
SWG, easily.
Vanguard's item making was great but the leveling up was tedious.
EQ2's actual crafting kinda sucks (tedious but still automatic to make items), but everything around it is awesome (all the content for crafters)
SWG hands down... Along with the material gathering aspect of it... I loved that crap.
I would also choose A Tale in the Desert as the best example of crafting. It did have many points I personally would have liked to see redesigned (like the test you mention, for the Obelisk, and I would have liked to see mandatory group crafting removed and some sort of NPC or global marketplace to facilitate bartering. But yeah, I love the core concept that you mostly craft things that you yourself want and need, there's no crafting XP to grind, and no useless items you need to craft just to get rid of.
My second choice for good crafting isn't really an MMO since it's a facebook game, but I really like CastleVille's crafting quests and the way they are integrated with story and character development of the NPCs.
I can't really think of a "best", I've yet to play a game where there was any advantage to crafting anything other than just trying to max out a skill.
Worst, Probably all of them, as these days you can gain 5 levels by the time it takes to gather materials and craft anything even remotely useful, not to mention mob drops and quest rewards are usually as good or better anyway.
In my experience with mmorpgs
The best : Fallen earth, age of wushu (wulin), darkfall
The worst : Rift and all other games with craft as a minigame option and not as a important aspect of the game.
SWG - crafting was deep, involved, highly rewarding, goods were always sought after and combat was option for pure crafters.
Neverwinter - I have lvled up to like 18 in the crafting and I still see no point in it.
The Vanguard crafting was a lot fo fun and very challenging, though it was grindy, like the rest ot the game. Making bricks and boards to build a housecan be quite tedious.My biggest gripe with Vanguard is that I didn't always know what I was making: level and stas were dependant on skill rolls. I blew many a rare to craft an item I couldn't equip.
Everquest 2's crafting kept me involved, and that made it better than most. Some of the stuff one could craft was fun too. And gathering was another way to spend time.
Mortal Online's crafting was interesting as well. I spent a lot of time gathering for others and being a test dummy for their experiments with weapon designs.
The worst, by far, is SWTOR. Sure it's convenient to have companions gather ingredients while logged out, but it's just a push-button grind. The mechanics of the tiers and sub tiers, the gathering skills and "missions", the inconsistent names of ingredients and crafts and items... it's just a confusing mess that seems poorly tacked on to a game that barely wants to be an MMO... I enjoy my cybertech, but only for the mods she can make.
TSW, LotRO, EQ2, SWTOR, GW2, V:SoH, Neverwinter, ArchAge, EQ, UO, DAoC, WAR, DDO, AoC, MO, BDO, SotA, B&S, ESO,
Best - SWG and FIrefall (which basically copied SWG's system, only with a bit less complexity).
Many people say EQ2 has good crafting. Even though I'm an avid EQ2 player and 10 year vet of the game, i don't agree. I think EQ2 crafting is as bad as most games.
To me, what most games miss about crafting is it involving any kind of skill. In most games, there is no difference between a good crafter and a bad crafter. Everyone takes the same recipe and makes the same item out of the recipe. There is absolutely no skill involved. How is this any fun? How can you take any pride in creating the exact same thing that everyone else creates? I just don't get it.
For me, what made SWG different was that almost every item created was unique. Because there were so many different qualities - base resources varied in quality, these made components of varying quality, these in turn made final items of varying quality - you ended up making truly unique items. These items could suck or could be good. Two crafters didn't just make the same gun. Each crafter's gun's quality depended on the amount of time (and luck) they had put into acquiring the best components in all steps of the process. A good crafter could make a good gun.
Of course the process of combining stuff (iirc) was still pretty basic and required no skill. This is the thing that remains that would make the system better. I want the crafting of a good item to present as much of a skill challenge as downing a difficult monster. Just because it's crafting doesn't mean it should be for idiots. It should still present some kind of challenge.
In EQ2, there is a part of crafting called "experimentation" - this actually presents a challenge and many people fail (and permanently lose very expensive components by failing) - this is the sort of thing that separates good crafters from bad. This is what we need more of. And of course the making of unique stuff that i mentioned earlier.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
+1
Best crafting: Star Wars Galaxies, especially because I could run my own shop and because they also had pet breeding.
Worst crafting: many MMO's have mostly irrelevant crafting. I disliked the SWTOR crafting system the most.
Now that Smedley of Sony has announced that they're working on a secret game that SWG fans will love, I'm waiting to hear more on that. I think SWG had a lot of innovative ideas that should be brought back.
10 year Raider? The only time raiders in EQII cared about crafting is hiring housing designers for their halls or making their spells and enchants. The gulf between raider and crafter in that game is notorious. When the SOE dev mentioned that house deeds could drop as raid loot, the raider response was, "huh?". It's that wide and deep. -_-
EQII has a system in place that the whole game revolves by working at your crafting stations (other games have them, but EQII is hands above them, as the crafting station isn't just a place to cobble a tier piece. It's a true crafting station with stats to watch over). The crafting station is used for traditional means -- leveling your profession and making goods; but it's also the means to level your guild with work orders, both the general and rush orders.
Add the fact that if you're not careful you can lose rares if you're not careful...or even die, as a wrong click can knock +20% of your life off per click...the crafting in that game has more meaning than standing at a mailbox cutting 100 gems, like in WoW.
The crafting only quest lines -- like the mastery one in Sinking Sands (I'll never will forget it as it's so funny), or the grandmaster line to obtain your cloak and Solstice earring -- makes actually playing a crafter more than just a mini-game in EQII. It's just a shame that "raider rules" in that game, as the crafting system could've meant much more.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.