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Whatever happened to picking a class and playing THAT class?
joejccva71
Member UncommonPosts: 848
I just watched (for the first time) the EQN Panel on Classes, and I was sorely disappointed when I saw that they were making it so people can basically turn your character into an "all class hybrid" eventually with enough leveling and customization. This is bascially making EQN a mix of Guild Wars 2 and RIFT. Are you kidding?
If when I start an MMO and pick my first class, I pick a Cleric because clearly I am interested in being a HEALER and I enjoy healing, rezzing, and buffing players. Sure maybe I can customize that healer to being more of an "offensive healer" where the heals aren't as good but I get some offensive spells, but still I am a HEALER.
If I wanted that healer to be a stealthy rogue that can hide in shadows, or be a warrior that can leap 50 feet in the air and do a huge whirlwind attack, THEN I WOULD HAVE PICKED THOSE GODDAMN CLASSES FROM THE START.
I just don't understand how these devs work these days.
Is this what the MMO community really wants? They don't want "dedicated healers" or "dedicated wizards" anymore? They want their class to be able to do everything?
This really pisses me off. 
Comments
It's the new one game fits majority of players concept. The more "anything goes" they add to the genre the more shitty and watered down it becomes. Let's be real, while they can advertise flexibility, the truth is that we all know that certain audiences love being able to do anything they want. They don't want factions, they don't want to be limited on who they can kill, and they want to have all the spells and abilities that everyone else has so that they never feel slighted.
It's the industry catering to children and folks who really should just stick with other games. Shame we have to see something potentially so great as this, cater to a mass audience.
Every class can heal, every class has great mitigation, every class has ranged and melee potential...and in the end, it's just a game of mage tanks running around (ala Rift).
If these developers knew how important community was (like, it's the people that bring me back to an mmorpg...not always the graphics or content quantity)...then they'd make us all dependent on each other for leveling and so forth. Full groups of players would abound, there would be group XP rewards for filling all the slots in a group...instead of the gazillion soloers we see in pve and pvp in nearly every title. And these guys wonder why free to play is the demise of most mmoRPGs.
It's nonsense. At some point, a pure old school MMORPG will arrive. Still waiting on that. This McDonald's mega size game design is just terrible.
It seems to be the whole solo play mentality, people want to be able to do it all so they don't have to depend on other people. If i can heal/tank/dps at the same time, i don't have to wait for other people to do things with and i can faceroll through the game type deal. For some reason developers hate healers and tanks and are trying to do away with them
case and point = GW2
Basically it boils down to everyone wants to feel super powerful and special, like they can do it all without help. But by taking away what makes other play styles special, no one is.
To be 100% honest here,... this is my biggest reason to be sceptical about EQN.
I hate current gen MMOs for what they did to group play. I hate being a jack of all trades. I want to specialize in something and be the absolute best in that aspect, then depend on OTHERS for stuff i simply suck at. This is was made community matter in original Everquest. This is what BUILD the community in the first place. Well this and forced downtimes, so you actually had time to chat a sentence or two ;-)
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
See this is a non-issue for you, I mean, its a REAL non issue for you. You seem to be the type of person who likes to have a set class that does a set thing, its how you understand your role and approach to the game. As such, that option still exists for you. You get to be exactly what you wish to be and progress as much as you like. Now, for people like me, who enjoy a level of complexity to their role this is also ideal. It means I can make very specific functioning characters, perhaps some even interesting approaches.
If honest I would rather all games just started with a blank template with no classes involved what-so-ever and your stats, abilities, weapons, armor etc were at complete control of the player.
Also understand that there is nothing wrong in liking the things you like and I liking the things I like, however the issues you see here do not exist. You can still be a dedicated healer and what other people want to play is neither your issue, nor your concern. If I personally want to play a 'Bard' for example then I might dabble in support/healing with a far bit of ranged dps. What right, do you have to tell me not to play what i want to play? None, so, in closing... you can play what you want to play, I can play what I want to play... what's the problem?
From my understanding, you still pick a main class.. say Cleric. The cleric is given 2 weapon choices and you get 4 abilites for each of those weapons. Then you are given 4 class slots. Those 4 slots allow you to pick abilities from any other class you have collected. This link explains it in alot more detail.
http://www.mmobomb.com/everquest-next-classes-detailed
This is my understanding aswell, also depending on ur class yor are depends on what type of class slots you have, there 4 different types of class slots offensive, defence, movement and utility and each class gets a different amount of each. For example a warrior may get 1 of each while a rogue may get 2 offensive (since its an offensive roll) slots 1 movement and 1 utility. So there is some difference between each classes. A and a Paladin ( being a more defence oriented roll i would assume) maybe get 1 offensive, 2 defensive and a utility slot.
If honest I would rather all games just started with a blank template with no classes involved what-so-ever and your stats, abilities, weapons, armor etc were at complete control of the player.
Also understand that there is nothing wrong in liking the things you like and I liking the things I like, however the issues you see here do not exist. You can still be a dedicated healer and what other people want to play is neither your issue, nor your concern. If I personally want to play a 'Bard' for example then I might dabble in support/healing with a far bit of ranged dps. What right, do you have to tell me not to play what i want to play? None, so, in closing... you can play what you want to play, I can play what I want to play... what's the problem?
Please go watch the Class panel video. Or watch it again if you already have seen it. There will not be dedicated healers or tanks in this game. This was answered specifically at that panel when more than one person asked the question.
If I strictly did healer abilities as a healer, and there was another player with me that multi-classed ..he could potentially (with enough time leveling) be able to tank, hide like rogues can, cast offensive spells from afar and heal just as well as someone that just decided to dedicate themselves as a healer. By just focusing on one spec you are putting yourself at an extreme disadvantage
That is what I'm talking about. They are making this game be a jack of all trades class and if you decide you don't do that, you will get left behind.
You also can still level up other classes though as they stated in the Panel. It's not just one class and then you decide on weapon abilities, etc. through tiers. They specifically stated that you can level up a Warrior to level 20 or whatever, and then do a mage and use those weapon abilities as well.
We're not even getting into the 4 max weapon ability system that is directly copied from GW2. In fact, almost the entire class system is what GW2 has.
I don't mind custom classes, at all.
I do mind Jack of all trades approach. I do mind not having a tank. I do mind not having a healer. Group dynamics NEVER worked without a trinity, GW2 being a recent example of "group play". Everyone in the group is basically soloing next to each other. Maybe giving each other some minor buffs, or at the very best one person kiting a boss while the others fire at it.
Did i mention how boring and mind numbing that is? Id 100% prefer waiting 5 hours for a tank to do a group dungeon then soloing the same dungeon with other soloer around.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
There's a difference between dual classes, and being able to do everything. Atleast in pen and paper D&D there were dedicated tanks and dedicated healers in the game. UO and Shadowbane were different games. EQ1, EQ2, WoW, DAOC, etc all were games that were based on having dedicated roles so groups worked well with the content.
What those SUCCESSFUL games (EQ1, EQ2, WoW, DAOC) didn't have were JACK OF ALL TRADES classes that could do everything.
Agreed. Perfectly stated. This is exactly what I'm talking about.
This i can see where you're going with. Theres nothing stopping us though from just assigning ourselves certain roles to preform taht we focus on more than others. I mean say you got a group of your buddies just say who wants to focus on healing and who wnats to focus on drawing aggroe or what have you and have them preform it to teh best of their abilities without a cookie cutter class to do it in. I mean I guess im just not seeing it as that much of a problem to overcome
This is a sandbox game... If you want cement and mortar, then get a run of the mill themepark game, where you start at level 1, and end at level 50, then grind for gear for the rest of your time.
Maybe it is something a bit hard to accept, but not all games will appeal to you, and if this is a non-starter for you, don't put your money into this game, and if enough people do it, both this developer and others will see and learn from it... however, if you do put your money here, and enjoy yourself, welcome to a new genre of gaming (new to you).
Personally i find the whole old raid mechanics completely handcuffing and restricting to my style of play and am glad EQ Next went without cookie cutter classes
You aren't understanding the entire point. Yes there's nothing stopping people from just "role playing" assigning roles to people. But most people (because it's available for them to do so) will play everything in one super human class where they can do everything (tank, heal, cast spells, and do rogue-like abilities). And for those that don't take advantage of the system they have put in place, they will be at a disadvantage.
Case in point: It's in SOE's court how they want to implement their class system, and if they want people to group up and just solo mobs like GW2 does, then that's how they want to make their game.
It's fine.
It's just too bad because it's nice being that powerful Cleric in a group that does all the healing and saves the group from certain death. It's nice to mean something in a group and have a ROLE. I remember in EQ1 as a cleric, even people I've never met before knew who I was because I was one of those clerics that never charged people to give them a rez, so I was sought after. It's just nice to have roles.
What is your style of play if I may ask?
Ok lets see if I can make my post a little more clear. There is up to 40 classes in the game, you can collect all 40 of those. You choose a "main" class out of all of the classes you've collected. That class determines your weapons allowed and your armor. Your weapon skills are themed towards that main class. Each class also has 4 class abilites. These are broken down into offensive, defensive, utility and movement. You can put any ability into those slots from any class, as long as it matches the type.
So lets say you pick a Cleric.. You can use a 2 handed hammer or a hammer and shield. The weapon abilities are Cleric focused.. They haven't listed the armor allowed yet, but lets say you're allowed to wear plate, so you'll have some defense. Then you have 4 ability slots (which they haven't announced what these slots will be yet) Lets just say for example they are Utility, Utility, Defense, Movement. You can pull any ability from any other class you have that matches those slots. Now can you pull some defense stuff from a Warrior, sure but you won't have the weapon abilities to back it up. Your weapon abilities will be Cleric themed.
Also like they said there won't be a required "Trinity" but each class will have a role to fill, it's just that groups should be able to function with any set up, or any player can change his main class to fit what the group may need. So I don't really seeing you being able to "Everything" but you will have a variety of things to chose from.
No i think you are missing the point but i may be wrong here. As i understood you couldn't be master of all those things at the same time you still have to pick and choose which class skills are active at a time so you can't be ranged/dps/mage/healer/rogue during the same fight you have to prepare what class skills are active beforehand right?
Now if i am wrong and you can do everything all the time all classes all skills 100 percent maxed out with no switching out then I would agree with the other poster that i said i already agreed with anyways about the jack of all trades but master of none is lame.
OK, awesome thanks for the info. I totally think this is a great system and am excited to try it out.
The Deep Web is sca-ry.
Ah personally i like playing a crafter,resource gatherer the most out of anything. I like exploring open world and i really enjoy open world pvp and i enjoy freeform unique character builds that i can customize and have the ability to use a different approach to a game challenge based on the way i theory crafted my character
Play the way you want. If you want to specialize in one thing, then do that. Find all the gear and buffs that let you do that one thing better. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Others may prefer to be competent at more than one thing, none of which may be as good at the single thing you choose. Who knows? And... does it even matter?
Find a group to game with. Let the group decide as a unit what the best tactics are. Don't look for a "How To" on the internet with every little tactic mapped out precisely. Instead, be exactly what you want to be and find others who feel the same. Figure out how to make it work and still have fun. Don't sweat how others play their game.
In the first MMO I ever played, there weren't defined roles. We never even heard of the "Holy Trinity" yet. But we somehow figured out a game plan on our own. It worked, and we had fun. Only years later did I realize that some of things we did could be given labels. I'm glad we figured it out ourselves.
Personally, I think it's extremely tedious and even boring to try to get a group together in the "holy trinity" games. Half the time you're looking for a tank or a healer that's at or around the same level you and the rest of the group are. And not because you want to, but because that's how the devs designed the content, and how the nice little "walkthrough" videos show you. Why bother playing when you can just watch others do it?
Bah. Don't even get me started.