Originally posted by MMOGamer71Welcome to the world of hiding in shadows, back stabbing shield wielding mages in plate armor casting healing spells while preparing a fireball as he readies his bow and places a trap.
except not really
Or at all....but people can hyperbole the shit out of in on a forum.
He does have a point though. That's the direction MMO's are going towards. Instead of actually leveling up a separate Mage for example, this system will allow you to take off your plate armor, put away your Polearm of Destruction, take a cloak and staff out of your backpack, put it on and voila, you're now a mage!
Oh wait you don't need a mage, you need a rogue. Hold on for 2 seconds before you pull that mob...let me change into my Assassin real fast...oh and let me hide and sneak behind the mob first before you pull it.
So much for goddamn immersion. lol
Yes because logging out and logging in on your assassin/mage/warrior whatever alt is so different and so much more immersive /rolleyes.
But I agree an assassin shouldn't be able to use magic and a mage shouldn't be able to use a sword. That's just bad writing and no one is ever going to be able to enjoy a story like that...total immersion breaking.
Originally posted by MMOGamer71Welcome to the world of hiding in shadows, back stabbing shield wielding mages in plate armor casting healing spells while preparing a fireball as he readies his bow and places a trap.
except not really
Or at all....but people can hyperbole the shit out of in on a forum.
He does have a point though. That's the direction MMO's are going towards. Instead of actually leveling up a separate Mage for example, this system will allow you to take off your plate armor, put away your Polearm of Destruction, take a cloak and staff out of your backpack, put it on and voila, you're now a mage!
Oh wait you don't need a mage, you need a rogue. Hold on for 2 seconds before you pull that mob...let me change into my Assassin real fast...oh and let me hide and sneak behind the mob first before you pull it.
So much for goddamn immersion. lol
Yes because logging out and logging in on your assassin/mage/warrior whatever alt is so different and so much more immersive /rolleyes.
But I agree an assassin shouldn't be able to use magic and a mage shouldn't be able to use a sword. That's just bad writing and no one is ever going to be able to enjoy a story like that...total immersion breaking.
Lol wizards in Middle Earth were pretty much angels, and magic in that universe was not what we would think of in a typical high fantasy sense. I think Gandalf gets a pass.
Originally posted by Soulfire99 Lol wizards in Middle Earth were pretty much angels, and magic in that universe was not what we would think of in a typical high fantasy sense. I think Gandalf gets a pass.
what about magicka, baldurs gate, diablo 3, conan, dragon age, Skyrim, Warhammer fantasy or plenty of other games and stories.
I wasn't aware that casting spells meant my hands were broken. My frail ol wizard bones means there's no way in heck I can heft up that heavy dagger and swing it when a warrior charges me and starts interrupting my spell-casts.
1. More content per character by making it accessible
2. As a result of having more content per character, focus on gameplay and rewards becomes more important for developers and players. Variety and quality, and challenging content fits better.
3. Addresses issue of alting and gear grinds, with other rewards such as housing to a better degree. Redoing raids pointlessly for alts or dealing with other possible scenarios - hopefully no extreme rare drop rates for slighty better gear than common.
4. Gives freedom in class choice making it feel different than other mmos while treating a character as a genuine hero that can learn the skills of the world.
5. Customisation to mix abilities as you like.
- the downside could be
that gear grinds are persistent as ever, no challenging content, and really multi classing becomes similar to alting. The difference is that multi classing allows for hybridisation similar to how a themepark mmo allows for templates in a certain tree wity point allocation enhancing already attained abilities.
however, multi classing at its core form encourages alting, and makes it seem that there is more content than other traditional mmos.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
I just watched (for the first time) the EQN Panel on Classes, and I was sorely disappointed when I saw that they were making it so people can basically turn your character into an "all class hybrid" eventually with enough leveling and customization. This is bascially making EQN a mix of Guild Wars 2 and RIFT. Are you kidding?
If when I start an MMO and pick my first class, I pick a Cleric because clearly I am interested in being a HEALER and I enjoy healing, rezzing, and buffing players. Sure maybe I can customize that healer to being more of an "offensive healer" where the heals aren't as good but I get some offensive spells, but still I am a HEALER.
If I wanted that healer to be a stealthy rogue that can hide in shadows, or be a warrior that can leap 50 feet in the air and do a huge whirlwind attack, THEN I WOULD HAVE PICKED THOSE GODDAMN CLASSES FROM THE START.
I just don't understand how these devs work these days.
Is this what the MMO community really wants? They don't want "dedicated healers" or "dedicated wizards" anymore? They want their class to be able to do everything?
This really pisses me off.
I believe they are going for an unbreakable gaming session. What this means is, they want a group to be able to switch out of combat to other rolls so that lack of a specific roll doesn't kill a group after someone leaves. Also the ability to switch around will lower the alts a player will want to have which means there is less storage needed on the game network side for separate characters.
It's not all that bad really. The way they might end up blowing it is if they put caps like guildwars 2 on how efficient your character can be at a specific task.
And to be perfectly honest....I would love crawling through a dungeon with guildies or friends and having to switch our rolls and play styles with several bosses. So maybe one boss puts down a constant aoe so you need a health regen healing specialist and a regular healer. Then the next boss lays nukes down that will go off and wipe party if not killed fast enuff so everyone switches to heavy damage and the healer goes to a hybrid. Perhaps another boss in the dungeon requires water pets to defeat it, so most of the group switches to Mage and summons pets.
There are all sorts of fun and interesting things you can do with this mechanic. It forces you to learn several different play styles and adapt on the fly to overcome. If the combat is good and the game is done correctly, I would see zero problem with this system.
On the other hand what is immersion breaking to me is picking up weapons I cant use because my cookie cutter class says so. If Isee a mace I want to use it I dont car3 ill train and learn it who is to tell me no? I hqt3 being told
The idea of traditional RPG classes is that sure you can pick up that mace off the ground and try to train with it but if you've spent your whole life reading spellbooks and aren't in great shape you will probably always suck with it. It's like I can pick up a baseball bat and try to "train" but I'm never gonna be Derek Jeter.
Classes are actually a good system of letting everyone feel heroic in their chosen field but not having anyone so stupidly powerful that it becomes silly and making it so even your super-powerful character still has to rely on others for some things but apparently that's not what a lot of players want. *sigh*
This mix and max class skill system sounds great on paper but I will bet after a few months ingame there will be a allround class skill mix that most people will use to be able to compete, we have seen it before.
A thing the OP isn't considering is, what if he don't likes the class?
He wants to play a Cleric to be the best healer and heal only. But what if its Class design is not the pure healer but a dps/healer. Well seems he have to start a new character. Aaawww. But oh, there isn't a pure healer in the 10 starter classes, what now? Well some player found a class called Priest and it has better healer abilities. But to get it you have to play another class to eventual unlock this. So you pick your Cleric and go on the journey to become a priest. Until you found it you maybe get accustomed to the secondary skills. But finally you got your Priest and can play a "dedicated" Healer. But oh my, the secondary skills are not making you a better healer, but bringing you out of trouble or some other stuff. If there were only a way to use the secondary skills of the cleric on your Priest to be the dedicated healer you want to be. somewhat like , how should i call it...ah, multiclassing.
you made your custom Cleric/Priest class which is the dedicated healer you wants to player, on no other healer can match you in this discipline. But the Druid/Shaman over there can keep the group alive through damage wards and hots. So he is a viable alternative to you, but the Mage/Cleric next to him can barely keeps himself alive or make big damage. but he could aid the healer when trouble comes and dps the rest of the time.
Next a PvP Scenario:
You are the dedicated healer, no one heals better then you, now a Rouge with heals and defensive skills attacks you. You have no Problem to heal the damage he deals to you. But you are a dedicated healer, you cant harm him. But as a smart PvP player you don't play alone but with a buddy who is a dedicated DPS. He reaps through the HP of the enemy like a hot knife through butter. And the Rouges Heals/defense abilities cant compensate the massive damage incoming, well to bad he isn't a "dedicated" tank who could stand against that damage, or that he didn't decided to slot skills to stop you from healing or pure dps skills to overcome you heals. Or even skills to escape the battle.
As you see, dedicated Roles can still be useful but they are not a requirement. And a Jack of all Trades(The Rouge with heal and defensive skills) is still a Master of Nothing. But a Master of All can prepare for coming battles.
I just watched (for the first time) the EQN Panel on Classes, and I was sorely disappointed when I saw that they were making it so people can basically turn your character into an "all class hybrid" eventually with enough leveling and customization. This is bascially making EQN a mix of Guild Wars 2 and RIFT. Are you kidding?
If when I start an MMO and pick my first class, I pick a Cleric because clearly I am interested in being a HEALER and I enjoy healing, rezzing, and buffing players. Sure maybe I can customize that healer to being more of an "offensive healer" where the heals aren't as good but I get some offensive spells, but still I am a HEALER.
If I wanted that healer to be a stealthy rogue that can hide in shadows, or be a warrior that can leap 50 feet in the air and do a huge whirlwind attack, THEN I WOULD HAVE PICKED THOSE GODDAMN CLASSES FROM THE START.
I just don't understand how these devs work these days.
Is this what the MMO community really wants? They don't want "dedicated healers" or "dedicated wizards" anymore? They want their class to be able to do everything?
This really pisses me off.
Because being artificially constrained to a certain class is counter-intuitive to fun, freedom and innovation. No one is stopping you from playing a certain class but for pete's sake don't ruin what I enjoy just so you can have your way. Not everyone enjoys or even wants to be stuck with the same set of tools day in and day out.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Originally posted by SephastusThis is a sandbox game... If you want cement and mortar, then get a run of the mill themepark game, where you start at level 1, and end at level 50, then grind for gear for the rest of your time.Maybe it is something a bit hard to accept, but not all games will appeal to you, and if this is a non-starter for you, don't put your money into this game, and if enough people do it, both this developer and others will see and learn from it... however, if you do put your money here, and enjoy yourself, welcome to a new genre of gaming (new to you).
Personally i find the whole old raid mechanics completely handcuffing and restricting to my style of play and am glad EQ Next went without cookie cutter classes
What is your style of play if I may ask?
I want to be a Stealthy, Fire Slinging, heavy armored, Bow wielding character.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Ok I know this thread has nine pages as of the writing. No one knows exactly what this game is yet. NO ONE but the game designers themselves and frankly they truly haven't told us that much yet, have they. However, it appears people seems to want to pretend that they have had visions of what EQ Next is actually going to be, well because they've played other mmo's and these folks creating the game, well they just don't know game design like the gamers do.
No one is going to be FORCED to do anything. This isn't the Nazi SS boot camp forcing you to download the damn game and then play it. If for whatever reason, you don't like cartoons, then do not buy it, download it, or play it. It's that simple. EverQuest was released in 1999. It still lives, but yeah it's been changed and it's NOT the same game it was in 1999. It's fun once in a while to reminisce about the ol' days. However, truly every blasted time I come through this forum, it's all this "get off my lawn" mentality and the ol' "back in the day, sonny...".
If you do NOT want to level up other classes, THEN DON"T! If you want to heal then DO IT, damnit! How do you know from one round table discussion exactly what EQ Next is going to be? If you have that kind of ability to see in the future and prophesy the eventual look, feel, and philosophy of the game then by all mean go on tour, write a book, schedule speaking engagements, ect.
Really, however, this is just folks that hate on specific games for whatever their reasons. Thankfully, I think for myself. I shall determine for myself what I care to play and how I want to play. This forum nor any other forum will make those decisions for me. Yeah, this is a ran t, and I don't really care what the OP thinks about this, I'm just too old to really care when guys 10, 20, or 30 years my junior think about my feelings
These hate on the new game posts are really getting old...
Alyn
All I want is the truth Just gimme some truth John Lennon
Originally posted by SephastusThis is a sandbox game... If you want cement and mortar, then get a run of the mill themepark game, where you start at level 1, and end at level 50, then grind for gear for the rest of your time.Maybe it is something a bit hard to accept, but not all games will appeal to you, and if this is a non-starter for you, don't put your money into this game, and if enough people do it, both this developer and others will see and learn from it... however, if you do put your money here, and enjoy yourself, welcome to a new genre of gaming (new to you).
Personally i find the whole old raid mechanics completely handcuffing and restricting to my style of play and am glad EQ Next went without cookie cutter classes
What is your style of play if I may ask?
I want to be a Stealthy, Fire Slinging, heavy armored, Bow wielding character.
Wouldn't they hear the clanking of your heavy armor? Or better yet, what if your armor creaks because you haven't oiled it in a while
I don't understand why this complaint keeps revisiting these boards...over, and over, and over again.
Yes, it's true that a player has the **opportunity** to multiclass up to 40 classes. It's also true that according to SOE, there is a progression path along class lines along with constraints that will make the advancement of a class progressively more challenging, and, there are itemization constraints as well. In other words, for all practical purposes, players are going to have to really focus and invest into what classes they want to develop; and a whole variety of factors will impact how one chooses to invest their time, energy, and money.
I (as a person who loathes rolling alts) welcomes this approach. To say that just because the opportunities for multi classing are present means there will be a bunch of jack of all trade classes running around is a completely false argument. Also, this structure does not preclude someone from picking a very specific class and sticking to it, and every indication is character progression paths will require greater focus within specific classes with respect to capabilities and itemization, etc.
As I see it, what we're really talking about here is an opportunity to change your mind down the road without having to roll a whole new character, or, to develop some really interesting character customizations. However, just like DDO, I have no reason to expect that the greater the hybridization of class skills, the less that character will be able to deepen any one skill set.
And really, the only way to know for sure if you will like the game is to play it. It's F2P, so if you don't like how the game plays, well, delete it off your hard drive and move on.
I really don't understand all the anger and anxiety. Seems a bit strange.
Why don't you write TSR and ask why went to DnD 2.0 and ask Wizards why they did 3.0 and now 4.0. That is the reason why you have not picking a class and sticking to it.
How about other new MMO's that don't stick to a specific class and allow you more flexibility to change on the fly (TSW for example)
Unfortunately many people would not mind just one class, but what we do not like is having to reroll and level a new character for 1-5 months just because we want to change (Most likely an exaggeration with games nowadays, probably a week or two tops)
No one is going to be FORCED to do anything. This isn't the Nazi SS boot camp forcing you to download the damn game and then play it. If for whatever reason, you don't like cartoons, then do not buy it, download it, or play it. It's that simple. EverQuest was released in 1999. It still lives, but yeah it's been changed and it's NOT the same game it was in 1999. It's fun once in a while to reminisce about the ol' days. However, truly every blasted time I come through this forum, it's all this "get off my lawn" mentality and the ol' "back in the day, sonny...".
"Nazi SS Boot Camp"? Hyperbole much? We all know that in MMOs people will be pressured to go with optimal builds. That's just how these games work. If battle mage is more powerful but I want to be pure mage I will have trouble getting groups. So the "If you don't like it just don't do it." is disingenuous.
Not everyone wants to create a dozen different characters just to try out other classes. Some people like to make just one and change it from time to time.
Originally posted by SelfDestructPro Not everyone wants to create a dozen different characters just to try out other classes. Some people like to make just one and change it from time to time.
Worked out wonderfully for me in FFXI, which remains one of my favorite if not my favorite MMORPG. I didn't like the idea in that game until I played it for years and went back to other games. The class system was also the one thing I liked in FFXIV so IMO it seems to be something I prefer in my MMO's so maybe I will love it in EQN. I'll reserve judgement on this one until I see it in action. I see where the OP is coming from, but unless the system homogenizes everything, I think I will enjoy this system over rolling a new character every time I want to try something new.
For those that have played MTG you understand the concept of building a deck. Typically for arguments sake you try to build a deck with 60 cards. Building a deck with all the cards available isn't very smart, you have pick and choose which cards work together. I believe EQN will have a similar system in which we build our skill decks and much like MTG certain decks/builds will have a particular themes and means to win.
No one is going to be FORCED to do anything. This isn't the Nazi SS boot camp forcing you to download the damn game and then play it. If for whatever reason, you don't like cartoons, then do not buy it, download it, or play it. It's that simple. EverQuest was released in 1999. It still lives, but yeah it's been changed and it's NOT the same game it was in 1999. It's fun once in a while to reminisce about the ol' days. However, truly every blasted time I come through this forum, it's all this "get off my lawn" mentality and the ol' "back in the day, sonny...".
"Nazi SS Boot Camp"? Hyperbole much? We all know that in MMOs people will be pressured to go with optimal builds. That's just how these games work. If battle mage is more powerful but I want to be pure mage I will have trouble getting groups. So the "If you don't like it just don't do it." is disingenuous.
If I join some random group of people, how are they going to force me in to playing something I don't want to? How will they even know what classes I have unlocked, geared, progressed to the appropriate Tier, etc?
If it is my guild "forcing" me, I'll join a new one.
The beauty of the system is anyone can do whatever with enough time. If someone tells me to play something, I'll politely tell them to do it their damn self.
If people want to play EQN, but can't get over multi-classing, they are free to play one class forever. They've said that each class will be a full class all on it's own. If people want the system changed fundamentally (not likely) they should stop complaining on random forums and get into Alpha/Beta and tell the devs, not argue with hyped up fans or pure haters lurking on whatever site.
On the other hand what is immersion breaking to me is picking up weapons I cant use because my cookie cutter class says so. If Isee a mace I want to use it I dont car3 ill train and learn it who is to tell me no? I hqt3 being told
The idea of traditional RPG classes is that sure you can pick up that mace off the ground and try to train with it but if you've spent your whole life reading spellbooks and aren't in great shape you will probably always suck with it. It's like I can pick up a baseball bat and try to "train" but I'm never gonna be Derek Jeter.
Classes are actually a good system of letting everyone feel heroic in their chosen field but not having anyone so stupidly powerful that it becomes silly and making it so even your super-powerful character still has to rely on others for some things but apparently that's not what a lot of players want. *sigh*
Your analogy rests on assuming the Dumb Jock and Scrawny Geek stereotypes, but consider Simon Agdstein: chess grandmaster and professional soccer player. Odds are you're no more likely to be him than you are to be Derek Jeter IRL, but once we step into a fantasy game... why not allow for both?
As for traditional RPG classes, it didn't take all that long for the original class-based RPG (D&D) to introduce multi-classing. It's most famous rival system (GURPS) went with freeform from the start.
Also, just because you can potentially do anything doesn't mean you can do everything at once. This leaves lots of room for even the 'super-powerful character' still having to rely on others - if the system is designed right, and the encounters are balanced for it.
No one is going to be FORCED to do anything. This isn't the Nazi SS boot camp forcing you to download the damn game and then play it. If for whatever reason, you don't like cartoons, then do not buy it, download it, or play it. It's that simple. EverQuest was released in 1999. It still lives, but yeah it's been changed and it's NOT the same game it was in 1999. It's fun once in a while to reminisce about the ol' days. However, truly every blasted time I come through this forum, it's all this "get off my lawn" mentality and the ol' "back in the day, sonny...".
"Nazi SS Boot Camp"? Hyperbole much? We all know that in MMOs people will be pressured to go with optimal builds. That's just how these games work. If battle mage is more powerful but I want to be pure mage I will have trouble getting groups. So the "If you don't like it just don't do it." is disingenuous.
Not at all. It's a choice you make to put 'finding groups' ahead of 'play what you want.' No different than the guy who really wants to play a rogue, but is 'forced' by his guild to roll a healer because that's what the guild is short on.
Comments
Yes because logging out and logging in on your assassin/mage/warrior whatever alt is so different and so much more immersive /rolleyes.
But I agree an assassin shouldn't be able to use magic and a mage shouldn't be able to use a sword. That's just bad writing and no one is ever going to be able to enjoy a story like that...total immersion breaking.
That's pretty much it right here
what about magicka, baldurs gate, diablo 3, conan, dragon age, Skyrim, Warhammer fantasy or plenty of other games and stories.
I wasn't aware that casting spells meant my hands were broken. My frail ol wizard bones means there's no way in heck I can heft up that heavy dagger and swing it when a warrior charges me and starts interrupting my spell-casts.
There are several benefits to multi classing.
1. More content per character by making it accessible
2. As a result of having more content per character, focus on gameplay and rewards becomes more important for developers and players. Variety and quality, and challenging content fits better.
3. Addresses issue of alting and gear grinds, with other rewards such as housing to a better degree. Redoing raids pointlessly for alts or dealing with other possible scenarios - hopefully no extreme rare drop rates for slighty better gear than common.
4. Gives freedom in class choice making it feel different than other mmos while treating a character as a genuine hero that can learn the skills of the world.
5. Customisation to mix abilities as you like.
- the downside could be
that gear grinds are persistent as ever, no challenging content, and really multi classing becomes similar to alting. The difference is that multi classing allows for hybridisation similar to how a themepark mmo allows for templates in a certain tree wity point allocation enhancing already attained abilities.
however, multi classing at its core form encourages alting, and makes it seem that there is more content than other traditional mmos.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
I believe they are going for an unbreakable gaming session. What this means is, they want a group to be able to switch out of combat to other rolls so that lack of a specific roll doesn't kill a group after someone leaves. Also the ability to switch around will lower the alts a player will want to have which means there is less storage needed on the game network side for separate characters.
It's not all that bad really. The way they might end up blowing it is if they put caps like guildwars 2 on how efficient your character can be at a specific task.
And to be perfectly honest....I would love crawling through a dungeon with guildies or friends and having to switch our rolls and play styles with several bosses. So maybe one boss puts down a constant aoe so you need a health regen healing specialist and a regular healer. Then the next boss lays nukes down that will go off and wipe party if not killed fast enuff so everyone switches to heavy damage and the healer goes to a hybrid. Perhaps another boss in the dungeon requires water pets to defeat it, so most of the group switches to Mage and summons pets.
There are all sorts of fun and interesting things you can do with this mechanic. It forces you to learn several different play styles and adapt on the fly to overcome. If the combat is good and the game is done correctly, I would see zero problem with this system.
Looking for an old school mmoRPG? Why not help back the title that is being made by the guy who set the bar in "playing your class?"
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588672538/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
The idea of traditional RPG classes is that sure you can pick up that mace off the ground and try to train with it but if you've spent your whole life reading spellbooks and aren't in great shape you will probably always suck with it. It's like I can pick up a baseball bat and try to "train" but I'm never gonna be Derek Jeter.
Classes are actually a good system of letting everyone feel heroic in their chosen field but not having anyone so stupidly powerful that it becomes silly and making it so even your super-powerful character still has to rely on others for some things but apparently that's not what a lot of players want. *sigh*
This mix and max class skill system sounds great on paper but I will bet after a few months ingame there will be a allround class skill mix that most people will use to be able to compete, we have seen it before.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
A thing the OP isn't considering is, what if he don't likes the class?
He wants to play a Cleric to be the best healer and heal only. But what if its Class design is not the pure healer but a dps/healer. Well seems he have to start a new character. Aaawww. But oh, there isn't a pure healer in the 10 starter classes, what now? Well some player found a class called Priest and it has better healer abilities. But to get it you have to play another class to eventual unlock this. So you pick your Cleric and go on the journey to become a priest. Until you found it you maybe get accustomed to the secondary skills. But finally you got your Priest and can play a "dedicated" Healer. But oh my, the secondary skills are not making you a better healer, but bringing you out of trouble or some other stuff. If there were only a way to use the secondary skills of the cleric on your Priest to be the dedicated healer you want to be. somewhat like , how should i call it...ah, multiclassing.
you made your custom Cleric/Priest class which is the dedicated healer you wants to player, on no other healer can match you in this discipline. But the Druid/Shaman over there can keep the group alive through damage wards and hots. So he is a viable alternative to you, but the Mage/Cleric next to him can barely keeps himself alive or make big damage. but he could aid the healer when trouble comes and dps the rest of the time.
Next a PvP Scenario:
You are the dedicated healer, no one heals better then you, now a Rouge with heals and defensive skills attacks you. You have no Problem to heal the damage he deals to you. But you are a dedicated healer, you cant harm him. But as a smart PvP player you don't play alone but with a buddy who is a dedicated DPS. He reaps through the HP of the enemy like a hot knife through butter. And the Rouges Heals/defense abilities cant compensate the massive damage incoming, well to bad he isn't a "dedicated" tank who could stand against that damage, or that he didn't decided to slot skills to stop you from healing or pure dps skills to overcome you heals. Or even skills to escape the battle.
As you see, dedicated Roles can still be useful but they are not a requirement. And a Jack of all Trades(The Rouge with heal and defensive skills) is still a Master of Nothing. But a Master of All can prepare for coming battles.
Because being artificially constrained to a certain class is counter-intuitive to fun, freedom and innovation. No one is stopping you from playing a certain class but for pete's sake don't ruin what I enjoy just so you can have your way. Not everyone enjoys or even wants to be stuck with the same set of tools day in and day out.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
I want to be a Stealthy, Fire Slinging, heavy armored, Bow wielding character.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Ok I know this thread has nine pages as of the writing. No one knows exactly what this game is yet. NO ONE but the game designers themselves and frankly they truly haven't told us that much yet, have they. However, it appears people seems to want to pretend that they have had visions of what EQ Next is actually going to be, well because they've played other mmo's and these folks creating the game, well they just don't know game design like the gamers do.
No one is going to be FORCED to do anything. This isn't the Nazi SS boot camp forcing you to download the damn game and then play it. If for whatever reason, you don't like cartoons, then do not buy it, download it, or play it. It's that simple. EverQuest was released in 1999. It still lives, but yeah it's been changed and it's NOT the same game it was in 1999. It's fun once in a while to reminisce about the ol' days. However, truly every blasted time I come through this forum, it's all this "get off my lawn" mentality and the ol' "back in the day, sonny...".
If you do NOT want to level up other classes, THEN DON"T! If you want to heal then DO IT, damnit! How do you know from one round table discussion exactly what EQ Next is going to be? If you have that kind of ability to see in the future and prophesy the eventual look, feel, and philosophy of the game then by all mean go on tour, write a book, schedule speaking engagements, ect.
Really, however, this is just folks that hate on specific games for whatever their reasons. Thankfully, I think for myself. I shall determine for myself what I care to play and how I want to play. This forum nor any other forum will make those decisions for me. Yeah, this is a ran t, and I don't really care what the OP thinks about this, I'm just too old to really care when guys 10, 20, or 30 years my junior think about my feelings
These hate on the new game posts are really getting old...
Alyn
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
Wouldn't they hear the clanking of your heavy armor? Or better yet, what if your armor creaks because you haven't oiled it in a while
I don't understand why this complaint keeps revisiting these boards...over, and over, and over again.
Yes, it's true that a player has the **opportunity** to multiclass up to 40 classes. It's also true that according to SOE, there is a progression path along class lines along with constraints that will make the advancement of a class progressively more challenging, and, there are itemization constraints as well. In other words, for all practical purposes, players are going to have to really focus and invest into what classes they want to develop; and a whole variety of factors will impact how one chooses to invest their time, energy, and money.
I (as a person who loathes rolling alts) welcomes this approach. To say that just because the opportunities for multi classing are present means there will be a bunch of jack of all trade classes running around is a completely false argument. Also, this structure does not preclude someone from picking a very specific class and sticking to it, and every indication is character progression paths will require greater focus within specific classes with respect to capabilities and itemization, etc.
As I see it, what we're really talking about here is an opportunity to change your mind down the road without having to roll a whole new character, or, to develop some really interesting character customizations. However, just like DDO, I have no reason to expect that the greater the hybridization of class skills, the less that character will be able to deepen any one skill set.
And really, the only way to know for sure if you will like the game is to play it. It's F2P, so if you don't like how the game plays, well, delete it off your hard drive and move on.
I really don't understand all the anger and anxiety. Seems a bit strange.
Why don't you write TSR and ask why went to DnD 2.0 and ask Wizards why they did 3.0 and now 4.0. That is the reason why you have not picking a class and sticking to it.
How about other new MMO's that don't stick to a specific class and allow you more flexibility to change on the fly (TSW for example)
Unfortunately many people would not mind just one class, but what we do not like is having to reroll and level a new character for 1-5 months just because we want to change (Most likely an exaggeration with games nowadays, probably a week or two tops)
I want to be like Magus from Chrono Trigger
"Nazi SS Boot Camp"? Hyperbole much? We all know that in MMOs people will be pressured to go with optimal builds. That's just how these games work. If battle mage is more powerful but I want to be pure mage I will have trouble getting groups. So the "If you don't like it just don't do it." is disingenuous.
Worked out wonderfully for me in FFXI, which remains one of my favorite if not my favorite MMORPG. I didn't like the idea in that game until I played it for years and went back to other games. The class system was also the one thing I liked in FFXIV so IMO it seems to be something I prefer in my MMO's so maybe I will love it in EQN. I'll reserve judgement on this one until I see it in action. I see where the OP is coming from, but unless the system homogenizes everything, I think I will enjoy this system over rolling a new character every time I want to try something new.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
Incoming Magic The Gathering analogy.
For those that have played MTG you understand the concept of building a deck. Typically for arguments sake you try to build a deck with 60 cards. Building a deck with all the cards available isn't very smart, you have pick and choose which cards work together. I believe EQN will have a similar system in which we build our skill decks and much like MTG certain decks/builds will have a particular themes and means to win.
If I join some random group of people, how are they going to force me in to playing something I don't want to? How will they even know what classes I have unlocked, geared, progressed to the appropriate Tier, etc?
If it is my guild "forcing" me, I'll join a new one.
The beauty of the system is anyone can do whatever with enough time. If someone tells me to play something, I'll politely tell them to do it their damn self.
If people want to play EQN, but can't get over multi-classing, they are free to play one class forever. They've said that each class will be a full class all on it's own. If people want the system changed fundamentally (not likely) they should stop complaining on random forums and get into Alpha/Beta and tell the devs, not argue with hyped up fans or pure haters lurking on whatever site.
Your analogy rests on assuming the Dumb Jock and Scrawny Geek stereotypes, but consider Simon Agdstein: chess grandmaster and professional soccer player. Odds are you're no more likely to be him than you are to be Derek Jeter IRL, but once we step into a fantasy game... why not allow for both?
As for traditional RPG classes, it didn't take all that long for the original class-based RPG (D&D) to introduce multi-classing. It's most famous rival system (GURPS) went with freeform from the start.
Also, just because you can potentially do anything doesn't mean you can do everything at once. This leaves lots of room for even the 'super-powerful character' still having to rely on others - if the system is designed right, and the encounters are balanced for it.
Not at all. It's a choice you make to put 'finding groups' ahead of 'play what you want.' No different than the guy who really wants to play a rogue, but is 'forced' by his guild to roll a healer because that's what the guild is short on.