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If the expansion was the same price for everyone then yes put it in an expansion.
No matter what semantics game you want to play or how you want to word it if you pay MORE you get MORE. That is absolutely fine in a free to play or a buy to play game, they have to make money some how. But in a subscription game it doesnt fly. Or at least shouldnt.
So it basically negates the subscription at this point and puts the onus directly on how much cash you spend beyond that basic subscription.
Spend it now in pre order or after in a cash shop.
Just what is that subscription getting me? If I sub now or in 6 months which will be better? Will the game have more content now or then? Will NOT playing 'hurt' me? If I start in 6 months and spend 500 bux in the cash shop were does that put me?
Theyre catering to the cash shop crowd under the guise of a subscription worthy game. Its a frigging joke. No one is ordering these pre orders for the map or the book or the statue (well maybe some for the statue) but the VAST majority are ordering for the head start (which should be enough on its own) but also the ability to unlock the races as well as an instant mount and the rings that will give them an instant advantage in the game over someone who just downloads it on day one.
Again we can play semantics all we want and if getting to a place faster or gaining points for skills/traits faster is an advantage. But the point is NOT EVERYONE has access to that, at least not without paying extra.
Why not just give cosmetic fluff? Which was what people actually thought they were selling. Nothing wrong with that.
The way they can sort of get away with it is because there are only 4 classes anyway and all races play them. So they dont really have an advantage that way. But if a Breton Ebonhart templar gets something a breton daggerfall (the allaince theyr supposed to be locked into) templar doesnt then that raises a red flag.
ll I know is it saved me 60 bucks.
guild war! (not the anet game)
EQ2 fan sites
The ability to pick the faction/race combination you want is something that I'd imagine most would expect to be a standard game feature in a P2P game. I think we all expected that there would eventually be a cash shop element to this game (what AAA game doesn't have one to some extent, P2P or otherwise?) but to make something that should absolutely be part of the box price/subscription fee a pre-order perk that will inevitably be a micro-transaction option likely in the very near future (maybe even at release) is a dick move -- especially when you consider how many people wanted this from the very beginning, but are now expected to either pre-order or pay for the privilege. And to top it off, if you want access to the last launch race, well, you're paying extra for that too.
It just comes off as a sleazy money grab and it doesn't exactly instill you with confidence about the company. I have no problem with CE bonuses like mounts, cosmetics, and other perks like that or a headstart for those who choose to pre-order, but prominent game features shouldn't be a part of either of them, imo.
I remember the previous Shaman/Paladin split, and was there when they changed that. However, again, they aren't locking classes, only racials, which affects only 1 skill line. How much that one skill line affects play is up to debate.
As to the point of 3 random groups fighting, I would ask you and again anyone who thinks the same way the following:
If they had worded it differently, and said the ruling bodies that repesent each territory had formed alliances, and left the word RACE out of it, would that have made a difference? After all, it's war. Governments go to war, not races or individuals of a said race, even if one race controls a territory.
agree - sounds like some promo from Marvel Heroes, NeverWinter, Path of Exile, EQN Landmark
all ftp games
EQ2 fan sites
My thing is, at this stage, why does a game company tweeking their words bother so many. Only 5 to 10 % of game companies have proven that a subscription model works so why not blame them for hedging their bets. If the sub model doesnt work they can retread and already seem to be putting things in place to block off things.
And all the people defending Zenimax on this will get exactly what they deserve when the milking machine is set to full throttle.
I'm quoting your post Selian, but this response is to a few other posts as well:
So if I am understanding the perspective correctly, the belief is that those against this feel they were gyped out of something that they should have been given for paying a subscription? It's not really lore issues, but more about the money?
Just making sure I got this straight.
Well, probably more like given for paying a subscription.
Good point. That's better phrasing. Editing.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
Combination of trying to con people into preorders with shinies before lifting the NDA, which would allow proper reviews to be released, which could then be used to make an informed decision as a consumer. Justifying a subscription by saying that TESO wouldn't hide content behind paywalls, then hiding content behind paywalls. Justifying their decision to lock races into specific alliances, even when people pleaded for it to be different, then turning around and offering it as a preorder shiny... I mean who cares about their previous justifications, that was just lip service. Anyway, it all reeks of shady marketing and cash grab.
I don't feel that I have been gyped out of anything. I'm not dumb enough to fall for baseless marketing hype, so it's not going to hurt me directly at all. However, tons of sheeple will buy into this crap and industry will call it a "success" (at fleecing tons of gamers) and make it a more common practice, probably pushing it even further next time. This is working under the assumption that the game is going to be somewhere between mediocre and garbage, but I guess I can't be certain because I don't have enough information due to the NDA.
Because THEY made such a big deal out of it. They also made it bannable on the official Bethesda forums to start topics or talk about why it was a sub game and why it wasnt buy to play or free to play.
They knew what they were doing all along. As did a lot of us.
Bait and switch 101.
You dont have a subscription based game as well as a cash shop in pre release. You also dont have top guys making mistakes when they talk about said stores, and then have guys come out and blatantly lie about it as claim the guy was wrong, and then a couple months later show us this bullshit.
You have one or the other, and then maybe after some time you might slip it in.
I also love how everyone is using World of Warcraft as an example of why a company SHOULD do something, when the major consensus for most people is you want to do what WoW doesnt. Thats the beauty of hypocrisy though you can use anything you want to make a point no matter how opposite the argument.
WoW can do what they want because theyre WoW and they have shown the ability to milk people out of money. But two wrongs dont make a right. What they do isnt right either but the people left playing that game are stupid enough to do it so be it.
ESo and Zenimax made a lot of statements, even though they havent said a lot about anything. But the most clear and adamant statements they have made were about their subscription model and why they did it and what justifid it. They also have said numerous times there wouldnt be a store (at least not in the way most people would expect one) well store or not they are showing that they are welcoming peopel to spend more money than someone else to get perks that may or may not be actual advanatges. But that is really irrelevant. Because their main point was a subscription would get you everything in the game everyone else got. That is a total lie and has now been proven as such.
There is zero defense for it other than spin and rhetoric.
I dont mind the game, I would buy it and play it if it werent subscription based. And I could live with their plans they have now. I could care less about so called advantages. My point is theyre getting everything and the middle too. But my subscription gets me NOTHING but access to the servers. Well there are a couple hundred other games that offer access tot heir servers for nothing. And those games are all pretty upfront about how if you spend money you get more than someone who doesnt. But I am not spending a sub fee on top of it.
A choice that if you wait till later to buy the game you have to pay extra.
Whenever i step outside, somebody claims to see the light
It seems to me that all of us have lost our patience.
'cause everyone thinks they're right,
And nobody thinks that there just might
Be more than one road to our final destination--
Adventurer's Pack arrived WITH Mirkwood, not with the Mirkwood sale on the following summer.
I agree with the other part with the built-in f2p features. There was the column about the upcoming three sub-games, many folks stated in the comments under it the same, ESO (and probably Wildstar as well) is only after the initial burst income from the boxes, and after a year they'll most likely drop the sub.
I guess we'll see in about a year.
Yes, they will. When they add a cash shop and a free option eventually, subscribers will continue to get the subscriber experience, and everyone will get to purchase things they want in the cash shop for prices which (by virtue of the fact they are paying them) they have agreed are fair. Everyone will be getting exactly what they deserve, which is no more or less than what they are willing to pay for.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.