Originally posted by DamonVile Originally posted by Po_ggOriginally posted by DamonVileSo what happens if you just don't buy keys to open them ?
Hopefully that will be the case. I've never bought anything that would support the lockbox scam in any games I play. Ok, I admit honestly, on a few occasions I strongly had to fight back the urge when I saw a D'Kora on the Exchange, but I'm tough (or just stupid...) and I avoided to support the lockboxer (D'Kora is a great ferengi vessel in STO, which is lockbox-only) If many players avoiding to purchase the boxes, then the ball goes back to the devs. They can either push it further (Turbine tried that too, luckily without much result), or just leave it as it is. They will still get some extra income from it, since a few folks will buy them, a few always does.I don't buy lock boxes or keys but I have no issue buying what comes out of them with in game money.
Games don't run on promises, good intentions or cheese... if someone wants to spend a pile of money on lockboxes go for it. If I can earn that same item just by playing, then the company wins, the lockbox guys win and I win. We all get what we want.
It's nice to say a company should only sell hats but when you're not paying your bills because people don't buy enough hats, you have to start looking for other things people will buy. It's all wonderful for a gamer to say just shut the game down and keep your " integrity " but it's not just a game to them is it ? I'm not so sure I'd want my company to just shut my job down instead of selling something I don't like.
I can see the big picture of what you're saying, but still. If you aren't selling enough hats to keep in business, is the best idea really to put your hats in a slot machine?
I'm not a fan of real money gambling mechanics being put into a video game. I can see how some people tolerate it or even justify it though.
First, it's not a lockbox. You're not using the correct term. Lockboxes are those boxes you get as loot while playing and it says you need to buy a key to unlock it. That's not the case here, they are completely confined to the item store only.
Secondly, it's not really a good deal. An epic augment isn't really anything in itself. The only item that might actually be very decent to get is the epic signet, however, the chance of getting one is extremely slim, and even so if you manage to get an epic signet, the chance of getting a GOOD epic signet is even smaller.
These things are only worth spening points on if you don't have anything else to buy atm. Buyed a lot of them myself, got a few black bullions, a couple of green augments, pure anima etc. Definitely not worth it
First, it's not a lockbox. You're not using the correct term.
Secondly, it's not really a good deal.
(on a sidenote, in the evening I dived into this issue so much, that I missed the hobbit-taking event on Withywindle... they were already near Isengard when I logged in. /shakefist Funcom. )
First, it's not a lockbox. You're not using the correct term. - seriously? that's your excuse?
There are numerous different implementations in games, with lots of different names. Lockbox is the most common, hence all of those mechanics are called lockboxes. I mean at least by us, common folks. And your definition isn't precise enough. (for example if the keys are dropped in game and you have to buy the box, that isn't lockbox by your meaning either )
These gambling mechanics (a.k.a. lockboxes), when you can acquire a random item from a loot table, if you spend real money for it. Simple as that. But if you like you can call it rafflebox, or rng-box (that's from the tsw forum), or anything else, it doesn't change anything. With the mystery boxes you get a random loot for real money. That's exactly what Joel ment when posted "no lockboxes, I promise".
Secondly, it's not really a good deal. - I wish I could agree with you... In a small part I do actually, and maybe that will be the reason if it won't be a widespread purchase: for maxed out, endgame characters there's not much useful stuff in them, except the epic augment / signet, and maybe the ritual fragments. But as slight the chance to get one, I'm sure a few folks will buy those, for example from the bonus points which are close to expiration. (I'd spend them on cosmetics, but that's just me)
However, those characters who are still working on unlocking the wheel, or just started the endgame grind, or doesn't play an aspect of the game (like nightmares or pvp) it is sadly a pretty good deal. AP injections, AP boosters, max hp pure Anima are great for faster advancement. Black Marks / Bullions can be a nice gift to those who doesn't grind them, but there are a few stuff at the vendor which they like. Even the blue signet / augment is great for someone who's still not at the purples yet.
True, TSW is not an altoholic game. One character in each organisation is more than enough, so it's a bit of a mystery (pun intended) what was FC's goal. I think the boxes will swallowing the bonus points of the maxed-out characters, that's a safe bet. Probably a few folks will buy some additional FC points in the hope of epic signets, generating some extra income.
But it seems the main target of the boxes are the "leveling up" players (in brackets, since there are no levels ), and in TSW there's not many of them. Probably they're planning a campaign to get a new player influx in the game? That would be nice. Still, inserting these boxes was a shady and unfriendly move, and I can't see how can it help the idea... "come to TSW, now we also have lockboxes like all those other games"
Mistake #1 was defending Funcom (or any gaming company for that matter).
The reason i defended funcom with TSW is because they followed what they said as closely as they could. The only time they went back on their word is when they couldn't possibly keep it. The dev team for TSW was great, and they did great work. Sadly this lockbox crap comes up which literally sits as a direct lie to the issues we brought up on the forum. This is a issue that the devs themselves came to the forums and told us directly it wouldn't happen. This is why the lockboxes sting so bad, Its not because they are implimenting it. Its because they promised that they wouldn't.
Because i can. I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out. Logic every gamers worst enemy.
The reason i defended funcom with TSW is because they followed what they said as closely as they could. The only time they went back on their word is when they couldn't possibly keep it. The dev team for TSW was great, and they did great work. Sadly this lockbox crap comes up which literally sits as a direct lie to the issues we brought up on the forum. This is a issue that the devs themselves came to the forums and told us directly it wouldn't happen. This is why the lockboxes sting so bad, Its not because they are implimenting it. Its because they promised that they wouldn't.
I don't think TSW Is anything special, or any game made by funcom for that matter, but you can't hold it against them.
They are in a desperate financial situation. Selling gambling is a last resort for any gaming company.
At the end of the day, they have mouths to feed. Wages in Norway are VERY, VERY high.
They can't afford to take the liberties that some gaming companies take because of it, not to mention that they are already in hot water with possibly fraud.
A poster on anarchy online forums in the new engine beta said they have lots pay for items to come that will disrupt gameplay. Funcom is doing this with all their games. They need the money to play the game they are best at the stock market.
Originally posted by Seelinnikoi People seem to forget this important fact that it's the "lockboxes players" that are supporting the game YOU also play for FREE!
Sub-free and free are two different things. Still, the box is pretty cheap now. But it's a pity they couldn't have stuck with selling DLC that gives new weapons and story and more fashion, maybe even some sort of housing, instead of going lockbox. I'm sure the people who work on the game would rather offer more creative content than cash shop gambling for loot, too. I doubt there is much job security for most of them in this 'content'.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
Mistake #1 was defending Funcom (or any gaming company for that matter).
The reason i defended funcom with TSW is because they followed what they said as closely as they could. The only time they went back on their word is when they couldn't possibly keep it. The dev team for TSW was great, and they did great work. Sadly this lockbox crap comes up which literally sits as a direct lie to the issues we brought up on the forum. This is a issue that the devs themselves came to the forums and told us directly it wouldn't happen. This is why the lockboxes sting so bad, Its not because they are implimenting it. Its because they promised that they wouldn't.
I dunno, this seems to happen all the time. People somehow delude themselves into thinking a company that makes a product they like is above certain behavior. Companies do not care about you. Not now, not ever. When they're making enough money, there's no problem and they're more than happy to maintain the status quo to keep making that money. When the money is less than they want/need, things change.
You can't run a business on ideals.
You can see people falling in love with SOE in various threads. "Ooo they dropped their NDA, that means they really care about the players this time!" *swoon* No, they don't. They care about your bank account and how soon it can get hooked up to their game. If that means playing nice and making you feel safe and loved, so be it. Always Be Closing.
Originally posted by Crazy_Stick Well, they went back on a direct promise of no lock boxes ever and here they are. I admit that I consider them a bane of the free to play game lines. Frankly, they totally ruined Star Trek Online and would clutter the space map so bad when they were testing drop rates that you couldn't see your enemies in an STF run. It is not a good move on their part even if I have to acknowledge that they need some sort of additional income to keep the game running and maybe even growing. STO would not have survived without them as much as I hate what the boxes did to the game and integrity of play value. There simply has to be a better way and amidst all the other junk going on I hope they find it. TSW is a niche game but a good niche game and it deserves better than being taken over by some one like PWI.
NO, no, no, no, no. Anyone other than PWI they are the worst company out there when it comes to the cash shop nowadays. they throw everything they can in there. if TSW ever got taken over by PWI the playerbase it has left would leave. Not to mention PWI couldnt tell a story if their lives depended on it. STO is not a story driven game, Sadly to say TSW needs to stay with Funcom or crash. Cause no one could keep up with the story that funcom put out. No One.
The horrors that I have seen, I had several max level characters across 5 PWI games.... the thing that always made me abandon end game with PWI was the rune/gem pyramid scheme in every frickin one of their games. Man, I don't wanna see funcom go PWI style. Also I'm sure the stories in PWI games are much better.... before they use Google Translate.
The horrors that I have seen, I had several max level characters across 5 PWI games.... the thing that always made me abandon end game with PWI was the rune/gem pyramid scheme in every frickin one of their games. Man, I don't wanna see funcom go PWI style. Also I'm sure the stories in PWI games are much better.... before they use Google Translate.
On one side, I hate lockboxes, and will never buy a single key for one in any game that has them.
On the other side, that fact that I don't buy what they're selling and someone else does, means less of my own money(in this case, 0 bucks) is required to maintain the game.
But i do feel bad for those with gambling addictions. They are preying on you, my brothers and sisters...
You can see people falling in love with SOE in various threads. "Ooo they dropped their NDA, that means they really care about the players this time!" *swoon* No, they don't. They care about your bank account and how soon it can get hooked up to their game. If that means playing nice and making you feel safe and loved, so be it. Always Be Closing.
I bought a lock box and all I got was a set of steak knives.
Originally posted by Fendel84M Can't you just not use them?
Yep... Hell, i haven't even really noticed them. They literally make no difference to me. I don't care about them so oh well.
<Shrug> I have considered them much like the random goodie bags that the Council vendors sell for "sequins" throughout the game. I've never bothered wasting leftover Solomon Island Sequins on those, either.
no offense OP but when has funcom actually did anything right over the years? Anarchy Online was a bug ridden mess with a very small niche player base. Age of Conan was one of the worst launches of a mmo out there and lingered on until now which IMO should of been shut down a long time ago. Then TSW launches with no chat working hardly and plenty of bugs to go around as well. Then months later its buy to play with a cash shop. This company honestly reminds me a lot of cryptic , they launch unpolished garbage that take them years to fix and by then the games are almost dead. It sucks because their concepts are awesome but the finished products always suck. I feel like if a free to play company doesnt pick them up soon they are closed doors done for good anyways.
With that said all you have to do is look at how bad their three flagship games are doing, their trading scams, and their laying off of employees AKA "restructuring" to see the writing on the wall. They of course are going to add in anything to try and make them money because Im pretty sure they are by no means raking it in with their abysmal sub numbers in AOC and AO, and buy to play I'm pretty sure is not their lifeline. If you do not like shady business tactics do not play any free to play , buy to play games with low populations as they will do and say anything to keep their business afloat and also could disappear at any given moment.
no offense OP but when has funcom actually did anything right over the years? Anarchy Online was a bug ridden mess with a very small niche player base. Age of Conan was one of the worst launches of a mmo out there and lingered on until now which IMO should of been shut down a long time ago. Then TSW launches with no chat working hardly and plenty of bugs to go around as well. Then months later its buy to play with a cash shop. This company honestly reminds me a lot of cryptic , they launch unpolished garbage that take them years to fix and by then the games are almost dead. It sucks because their concepts are awesome but the finished products always suck. I feel like if a free to play company doesnt pick them up soon they are closed doors done for good anyways.
With that said all you have to do is look at how bad their three flagship games are doing, their trading scams, and their laying off of employees AKA "restructuring" to see the writing on the wall. They of course are going to add in anything to try and make them money because Im pretty sure they are by no means raking it in with their abysmal sub numbers in AOC and AO, and buy to play I'm pretty sure is not their lifeline. If you do not like shady business tactics do not play any free to play , buy to play games with low populations as they will do and say anything to keep their business afloat and also could disappear at any given moment.
Conan was the best game to date after the first 3 months. However, they took our sub and made another game instead of keeping Conan top notch and doing any kind of advertizing.
I def see within 2years the games run by Funcom TSW & Age of Conan atlest sold off to a company like Trion.
So going from an imploding company to one not far from imploding. With Trion having closed its EU doors and shutting down Rift in Russia, Defiance being a dud, the are scrambling to turn Glyph into a Steam launcher which has many on their forums in an uproar, guilds breaking and leaving the game because they wont support it. They are at the point they need to vastly increase their revenue from distribution and hoping they can get enough indie developers reliant on their services to survive.
Trion isn't far from deaths door either. All it will take is for Archeage to be a bust. Unless Comcast takes over since they are their largest investor. Then I really wont support any of their games.
Originally posted by DamonVile So what happens if you just don't buy keys to open them ?
^^^ This ^^^
you dont need keys to open them. they are gambleboxes, not lockboxes.
This was answered back on the second page, anyway. THERE ARE NO KEYS, it's the boxes themselves that are being sold. Hence the argument that they are not "lockboxes" since they're not, well, locked.
If you don't buy them, the only way you'll ever see one is in the rare situations when you get awarded one for no charge (two examples so far: standard boxes were given as "compensation" in the Mankini fiasco -- and one "deeper" box is awared to the first character on your account to complete all four investigations from the recent DLC).
Comments
I don't buy lock boxes or keys but I have no issue buying what comes out of them with in game money.
Games don't run on promises, good intentions or cheese... if someone wants to spend a pile of money on lockboxes go for it. If I can earn that same item just by playing, then the company wins, the lockbox guys win and I win. We all get what we want.
It's nice to say a company should only sell hats but when you're not paying your bills because people don't buy enough hats, you have to start looking for other things people will buy. It's all wonderful for a gamer to say just shut the game down and keep your " integrity " but it's not just a game to them is it ? I'm not so sure I'd want my company to just shut my job down instead of selling something I don't like.
I can see the big picture of what you're saying, but still. If you aren't selling enough hats to keep in business, is the best idea really to put your hats in a slot machine?
I'm not a fan of real money gambling mechanics being put into a video game. I can see how some people tolerate it or even justify it though.
First, it's not a lockbox. You're not using the correct term. Lockboxes are those boxes you get as loot while playing and it says you need to buy a key to unlock it. That's not the case here, they are completely confined to the item store only.
Secondly, it's not really a good deal. An epic augment isn't really anything in itself. The only item that might actually be very decent to get is the epic signet, however, the chance of getting one is extremely slim, and even so if you manage to get an epic signet, the chance of getting a GOOD epic signet is even smaller.
These things are only worth spening points on if you don't have anything else to buy atm. Buyed a lot of them myself, got a few black bullions, a couple of green augments, pure anima etc. Definitely not worth it
(on a sidenote, in the evening I dived into this issue so much, that I missed the hobbit-taking event on Withywindle... they were already near Isengard when I logged in. /shakefist Funcom.
)
First, it's not a lockbox. You're not using the correct term. - seriously? that's your excuse?
There are numerous different implementations in games, with lots of different names. Lockbox is the most common, hence all of those mechanics are called lockboxes. I mean at least by us, common folks. And your definition isn't precise enough. (for example if the keys are dropped in game and you have to buy the box, that isn't lockbox by your meaning either
)
These gambling mechanics (a.k.a. lockboxes), when you can acquire a random item from a loot table, if you spend real money for it. Simple as that. But if you like you can call it rafflebox, or rng-box (that's from the tsw forum), or anything else, it doesn't change anything. With the mystery boxes you get a random loot for real money. That's exactly what Joel ment when posted "no lockboxes, I promise".
Secondly, it's not really a good deal. - I wish I could agree with you... In a small part I do actually, and maybe that will be the reason if it won't be a widespread purchase: for maxed out, endgame characters there's not much useful stuff in them, except the epic augment / signet, and maybe the ritual fragments. But as slight the chance to get one, I'm sure a few folks will buy those, for example from the bonus points which are close to expiration. (I'd spend them on cosmetics, but that's just me)
However, those characters who are still working on unlocking the wheel, or just started the endgame grind, or doesn't play an aspect of the game (like nightmares or pvp) it is sadly a pretty good deal. AP injections, AP boosters, max hp pure Anima are great for faster advancement. Black Marks / Bullions can be a nice gift to those who doesn't grind them, but there are a few stuff at the vendor which they like. Even the blue signet / augment is great for someone who's still not at the purples yet.
True, TSW is not an altoholic game. One character in each organisation is more than enough, so it's a bit of a mystery (pun intended) what was FC's goal. I think the boxes will swallowing the bonus points of the maxed-out characters, that's a safe bet. Probably a few folks will buy some additional FC points in the hope of epic signets, generating some extra income.
But it seems the main target of the boxes are the "leveling up" players (in brackets, since there are no levels
), and in TSW there's not many of them. Probably they're planning a campaign to get a new player influx in the game? That would be nice. Still, inserting these boxes was a shady and unfriendly move, and I can't see how can it help the idea... "come to TSW, now we also have lockboxes like all those other games" 
Mistake #1 was defending Funcom (or any gaming company for that matter).
The reason i defended funcom with TSW is because they followed what they said as closely as they could. The only time they went back on their word is when they couldn't possibly keep it. The dev team for TSW was great, and they did great work. Sadly this lockbox crap comes up which literally sits as a direct lie to the issues we brought up on the forum. This is a issue that the devs themselves came to the forums and told us directly it wouldn't happen. This is why the lockboxes sting so bad, Its not because they are implimenting it. Its because they promised that they wouldn't.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
I don't think TSW Is anything special, or any game made by funcom for that matter, but you can't hold it against them.
They are in a desperate financial situation. Selling gambling is a last resort for any gaming company.
At the end of the day, they have mouths to feed. Wages in Norway are VERY, VERY high.
They can't afford to take the liberties that some gaming companies take because of it, not to mention that they are already in hot water with possibly fraud.
It's a business.
New players can get a welcome package and old/returning players can also get a welcome back package and 7 days free subscription time! Just click here to use my referral invitation
Sub-free and free are two different things. Still, the box is pretty cheap now. But it's a pity they couldn't have stuck with selling DLC that gives new weapons and story and more fashion, maybe even some sort of housing, instead of going lockbox. I'm sure the people who work on the game would rather offer more creative content than cash shop gambling for loot, too. I doubt there is much job security for most of them in this 'content'.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
I dunno, this seems to happen all the time. People somehow delude themselves into thinking a company that makes a product they like is above certain behavior. Companies do not care about you. Not now, not ever. When they're making enough money, there's no problem and they're more than happy to maintain the status quo to keep making that money. When the money is less than they want/need, things change.
You can't run a business on ideals.
You can see people falling in love with SOE in various threads. "Ooo they dropped their NDA, that means they really care about the players this time!" *swoon* No, they don't. They care about your bank account and how soon it can get hooked up to their game. If that means playing nice and making you feel safe and loved, so be it. Always Be Closing.
The horrors that I have seen, I had several max level characters across 5 PWI games.... the thing that always made me abandon end game with PWI was the rune/gem pyramid scheme in every frickin one of their games. Man, I don't wanna see funcom go PWI style. Also I'm sure the stories in PWI games are much better.... before they use Google Translate.
I always thought they used babblefish...
On one side, I hate lockboxes, and will never buy a single key for one in any game that has them.
On the other side, that fact that I don't buy what they're selling and someone else does, means less of my own money(in this case, 0 bucks) is required to maintain the game.
But i do feel bad for those with gambling addictions. They are preying on you, my brothers and sisters...
Fine, we'll compromise. I'll get my way & you'll find a way to be okay with that.
I bought a lock box and all I got was a set of steak knives.
Yep... Hell, i haven't even really noticed them. They literally make no difference to me. I don't care about them so oh well.
<Shrug> I have considered them much like the random goodie bags that the Council vendors sell for "sequins" throughout the game. I've never bothered wasting leftover Solomon Island Sequins on those, either.
no offense OP but when has funcom actually did anything right over the years? Anarchy Online was a bug ridden mess with a very small niche player base. Age of Conan was one of the worst launches of a mmo out there and lingered on until now which IMO should of been shut down a long time ago. Then TSW launches with no chat working hardly and plenty of bugs to go around as well. Then months later its buy to play with a cash shop. This company honestly reminds me a lot of cryptic , they launch unpolished garbage that take them years to fix and by then the games are almost dead. It sucks because their concepts are awesome but the finished products always suck. I feel like if a free to play company doesnt pick them up soon they are closed doors done for good anyways.
With that said all you have to do is look at how bad their three flagship games are doing, their trading scams, and their laying off of employees AKA "restructuring" to see the writing on the wall. They of course are going to add in anything to try and make them money because Im pretty sure they are by no means raking it in with their abysmal sub numbers in AOC and AO, and buy to play I'm pretty sure is not their lifeline. If you do not like shady business tactics do not play any free to play , buy to play games with low populations as they will do and say anything to keep their business afloat and also could disappear at any given moment.
Conan was the best game to date after the first 3 months. However, they took our sub and made another game instead of keeping Conan top notch and doing any kind of advertizing.
So going from an imploding company to one not far from imploding. With Trion having closed its EU doors and shutting down Rift in Russia, Defiance being a dud, the are scrambling to turn Glyph into a Steam launcher which has many on their forums in an uproar, guilds breaking and leaving the game because they wont support it. They are at the point they need to vastly increase their revenue from distribution and hoping they can get enough indie developers reliant on their services to survive.
Trion isn't far from deaths door either. All it will take is for Archeage to be a bust. Unless Comcast takes over since they are their largest investor. Then I really wont support any of their games.
My thoughts exactly....i
dont see
the issue personally
No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin
^^^ This ^^^
you dont need keys to open them. they are gambleboxes, not lockboxes.
This was answered back on the second page, anyway. THERE ARE NO KEYS, it's the boxes themselves that are being sold. Hence the argument that they are not "lockboxes" since they're not, well, locked.
If you don't buy them, the only way you'll ever see one is in the rare situations when you get awarded one for no charge (two examples so far: standard boxes were given as "compensation" in the Mankini fiasco -- and one "deeper" box is awared to the first character on your account to complete all four investigations from the recent DLC).