I never got the feeling Brad nor the EQ team had any idea how to create danger without the super simple idea of overcrowding a zone with mobs.In FFXI the FEAR factor was there and that was even though you could cast invisible or sneak or could simply walk around mobs.The reason was simple,the game was designed to group,in a solo manner you would be gobbled up quickly by aggro.In Eq2 or Vanguard,it was simply a cheap AI all zerging together,even through walls,it always felt very unrealistic,just a wall of mobs that FORCED you to always fight.
There is a big ffxi influence in Pantheon
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
I don't agree about the fear and consequences of not playing good in EQ especially. If you screwed up and were a soft class, many places you would be killed in a couple seconds. Could go on, but everyone has their own opinions, and mine differs.
I never got the feeling Brad nor the EQ team had any idea how to create danger without the super simple idea of overcrowding a zone with mobs.
In FFXI the FEAR factor was there and that was even though you could cast invisible or sneak or could simply walk around mobs.The reason was simple,the game was designed to group,in a solo manner you would be gobbled up quickly by aggro.
In Eq2 or Vanguard,it was simply a cheap AI all zerging together,even through walls,it always felt very unrealistic,just a wall of mobs that FORCED you to always fight.
Really? Giants and griffon on WC? Kithicor forest??
Everquest felt like a simulation of a fantasy world; it served as the genre’s primary antecedent, yet few if any of its successors have managed to match the metaphysical weight and alternate reality of Norrath. Perhaps some of its success can be attributed to the novelty of both the genre and the internet back in 1999, but of course there was far more to it than that. In its initial iterations, the world of Norrath felt real; it had an essential authenticity of time, place and spirit. Unfortunately, despite unprecedented budgets and advanced technology, recent mmorpgs have failed to attain a successful replication of this authenticity.
The current state of the mmorpg industry leaves much to be desired because the predominant philosophy among mainstream developers is to treat the setting as an elaborate backdrop instead of a living, breathing world. I hope Pantheon will help the genre get back to its roots by rediscovering an approach which emphasizes world-simulation.
I never got the feeling Brad nor the EQ team had any idea how to create danger without the super simple idea of overcrowding a zone with mobs.
In FFXI the FEAR factor was there and that was even though you could cast invisible or sneak or could simply walk around mobs.The reason was simple,the game was designed to group,in a solo manner you would be gobbled up quickly by aggro.
In Eq2 or Vanguard,it was simply a cheap AI all zerging together,even through walls,it always felt very unrealistic,just a wall of mobs that FORCED you to always fight.
Huh? You'll need to elaborate because your post doesn't make any sense in it's current state. In EQ1, most classes couldn't solo a single "even con" mob after a certain level. For a warrior, it was about level 8. Did you not realize that FFXI was just about a straight rip-off of EQ1 mechanics?
Originally posted by Uhwop Same things he said about Vanguard.
And Vanguard turned out to be one of the best PvE MMOs of the last 8 years, what's your point?
Yeah, so good it's being closed down. Vanguard was great in theory. Not in execution.
VG never had a real chance. It should of been taking down and worked on then re-released. I don't know if the engine was fixable tho.
That doesnt mean pantheon will have a similar fate. Pantheon is more focused and not looking to do as many things.
SoE initially said they were going to do a relaunch to the people playing VG, but it never happend at the time and it was left in limbo for a long time with 1-2 devs. I imagine they figured it was going to cost too much to do, but that was the plan initially, they were going to redo everything that needed it, then put it out again and have a relaunch.
When something has a bad launch, it is nearly impossible for it to recover, unfortuneatley.
Originally posted by Uhwop Same things he said about Vanguard.
And Vanguard turned out to be one of the best PvE MMOs of the last 8 years, what's your point?
Yeah, so good it's being closed down. Vanguard was great in theory. Not in execution.
VG never had a real chance. It should of been taking down and worked on then re-released. I don't know if the engine was fixable tho.
That doesnt mean pantheon will have a similar fate. Pantheon is more focused and not looking to do as many things.
SoE initially said they were going to do a relaunch to the people playing VG, but it never happend at the time and it was left in limbo for a long time with 1-2 devs. I imagine they figured it was going to cost too much to do, but that was the plan initially, they were going to redo everything that needed it, then put it out again and have a relaunch.
When something has a bad launch, it is nearly impossible for it to recover, unfortuneatley.
I doubt that was really their plan, they gave everyone from Vanguard free access to EQ2 because that was their real plan. To let Vanguard die so it wouldn't be competition for EQ2.
I always hear people say "if SOE didn't care why did they pick the game up" because if they hadn't someone else might, someone who might have given it the attention it needed and then it would be a threat to them. If Vanguard has even a handful of developers rather than being stripped bare by SOE it would have all but killed EQ2 and maybe SOE would have gone down with it.
It was such a better game, it just didn't have the support it needed.
Cloaks are cute. How about, using Steam as your digital distribution platform, offer a joint subscription for both games. Make it $20.. whatever your margins will allow.
Maybe create an alliance of MMO-devs/companies. Don't merge companies, just create a platform that allows ease of support and flow of ideas and even employees between different teams.
Think like the Wu-tang clan: RZA created a platform for aspiring artists to come test their ideas and produce content, free of worry about producers subjugating their greater vision because of focus group/time constraints. Wu-tang was the launchpad. It instantly garnered some level of credibility for the unheard-of artists and allowed them to receive free help on production in the beginning. They make an album under Wu-tang, make the company some money, then if they become more recognizable they spin off and do a self-supported solo album. Voila, you have a successful artist who makes good profits on his own. No need for some kind of overlord-ship directing all movements (I'm looking at you Sony.)
McQuaid and Garriott have the clout. If their games are successful, their blessing will give aspiring developers credibility, and maybe lead the MMO genre in a new direction. The name of the game is quality control.
Originally posted by Vorthanion Wow, he's already giving up on seeing if his hardcore game can make it on its own merits and jumping on the bandwagon of a more successful game with a completely different audience. If this is how hardcore developers are going to behave on future projects, I feel sorry for the hardcore audience.
Funny how cooperation is viewed as weakness. But I guess it's easier to just be negative all the time. Don't be sorry for the hardcore or old school audience, if this is just the beginning of cooperation in old school developers, then soon my friend, your pity may turn into envy.
That'll be a cold day in hell when I feel envious of any game that McQuaid touches. EQ only became enjoyable after SOE took direct control from Verant and dissolved that subsidiary and made sweeping changes to gameplay. Everyone looks at EQ as one of the most successful pioneers of the genre, conveniently overlooking the millions of gamers who tried it and left, long before the industry even knew there were millions of players to work with and long before WoW came along to prove otherwise. EQ2 was their failed attempt to appeal to those millions of gamers who were dissatisfied with EQ. Vanguard was an even more monumental failure. I can't believe people can act like McQuaid has the midas touch, when it's more like a death touch.
Everquest felt like a simulation of a fantasy world; it served as the genre’s primary antecedent, yet few if any of its successors have managed to match the metaphysical weight and alternate reality of Norrath. Perhaps some of its success can be attributed to the novelty of both the genre and the internet back in 1999, but of course there was far more to it than that. In its initial iterations, the world of Norrath felt real; it had an essential authenticity of time, place and spirit. Unfortunately, despite unprecedented budgets and advanced technology, recent mmorpgs have failed to attain a successful replication of this authenticity.
The current state of the mmorpg industry leaves much to be desired because the predominant philosophy among mainstream developers is to treat the setting as an elaborate backdrop instead of a living, breathing world. I hope Pantheon will help the genre get back to its roots by rediscovering an approach which emphasizes world-simulation.
It's hard to argue for world simulation when everyone is crying about action combat and all of the other arcade style mechanics that are the antithesis of a living, breathing MMO. The sheer amount of complaining on the various boards would have us believe that the majority of MMO fans are more interested in games like Planetside 2 or Call of Duty Online rather than games like Archeage or even EQ Next. I guess we'll find out soon enough if they're right once they're all out there and competing.
Comments
There is a big ffxi influence in PantheonAny mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
I don't agree about the fear and consequences of not playing good in EQ especially. If you screwed up and were a soft class, many places you would be killed in a couple seconds. Could go on, but everyone has their own opinions, and mine differs.
Really? Giants and griffon on WC? Kithicor forest??
Everquest felt like a simulation of a fantasy world; it served as the genre’s primary antecedent, yet few if any of its successors have managed to match the metaphysical weight and alternate reality of Norrath. Perhaps some of its success can be attributed to the novelty of both the genre and the internet back in 1999, but of course there was far more to it than that. In its initial iterations, the world of Norrath felt real; it had an essential authenticity of time, place and spirit. Unfortunately, despite unprecedented budgets and advanced technology, recent mmorpgs have failed to attain a successful replication of this authenticity.
The current state of the mmorpg industry leaves much to be desired because the predominant philosophy among mainstream developers is to treat the setting as an elaborate backdrop instead of a living, breathing world. I hope Pantheon will help the genre get back to its roots by rediscovering an approach which emphasizes world-simulation.
Yeah, so good it's being closed down. Vanguard was great in theory. Not in execution.
VG never had a real chance. It should of been taking down and worked on then re-released. I don't know if the engine was fixable tho.
That doesnt mean pantheon will have a similar fate. Pantheon is more focused and not looking to do as many things.
Huh? You'll need to elaborate because your post doesn't make any sense in it's current state. In EQ1, most classes couldn't solo a single "even con" mob after a certain level. For a warrior, it was about level 8. Did you not realize that FFXI was just about a straight rip-off of EQ1 mechanics?
SoE initially said they were going to do a relaunch to the people playing VG, but it never happend at the time and it was left in limbo for a long time with 1-2 devs. I imagine they figured it was going to cost too much to do, but that was the plan initially, they were going to redo everything that needed it, then put it out again and have a relaunch.
When something has a bad launch, it is nearly impossible for it to recover, unfortuneatley.
I doubt that was really their plan, they gave everyone from Vanguard free access to EQ2 because that was their real plan. To let Vanguard die so it wouldn't be competition for EQ2.
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
Cloaks are cute. How about, using Steam as your digital distribution platform, offer a joint subscription for both games. Make it $20.. whatever your margins will allow.
Maybe create an alliance of MMO-devs/companies. Don't merge companies, just create a platform that allows ease of support and flow of ideas and even employees between different teams.
Think like the Wu-tang clan: RZA created a platform for aspiring artists to come test their ideas and produce content, free of worry about producers subjugating their greater vision because of focus group/time constraints. Wu-tang was the launchpad. It instantly garnered some level of credibility for the unheard-of artists and allowed them to receive free help on production in the beginning. They make an album under Wu-tang, make the company some money, then if they become more recognizable they spin off and do a self-supported solo album. Voila, you have a successful artist who makes good profits on his own. No need for some kind of overlord-ship directing all movements (I'm looking at you Sony.)
McQuaid and Garriott have the clout. If their games are successful, their blessing will give aspiring developers credibility, and maybe lead the MMO genre in a new direction. The name of the game is quality control.
That'll be a cold day in hell when I feel envious of any game that McQuaid touches. EQ only became enjoyable after SOE took direct control from Verant and dissolved that subsidiary and made sweeping changes to gameplay. Everyone looks at EQ as one of the most successful pioneers of the genre, conveniently overlooking the millions of gamers who tried it and left, long before the industry even knew there were millions of players to work with and long before WoW came along to prove otherwise. EQ2 was their failed attempt to appeal to those millions of gamers who were dissatisfied with EQ. Vanguard was an even more monumental failure. I can't believe people can act like McQuaid has the midas touch, when it's more like a death touch.
It's hard to argue for world simulation when everyone is crying about action combat and all of the other arcade style mechanics that are the antithesis of a living, breathing MMO. The sheer amount of complaining on the various boards would have us believe that the majority of MMO fans are more interested in games like Planetside 2 or Call of Duty Online rather than games like Archeage or even EQ Next. I guess we'll find out soon enough if they're right once they're all out there and competing.