If ESO and Wildstar tank, can we finally agree themepark MMOs are a thing of the past?

boxsnd

How many failures does the industry need to realize that it only worked for WoW? It doesn't work for anyone else. 9 years of flops and counting. When will it end?

EugeneKDudley

As long as F2P exist they can survive a very long time, considering they don't have to be very good as long as it don't cost a monthly sub they can coast until shutdown notice.

eldaris

First let's wait for a successful sandbox mmo, polished and with no ffa pvp than you can say theme parks are in trouble.

doodphace

Originally posted by boxsnd
How many failures does the industry need to realize that it only worked for WoW? It doesn't work for anyone else. 9 years of flops and counting. When will it end?

What? So let me get this straight. WoW has 8 million players, SWTOR has 1 million players, we can assume GW2 also has many players, we can also assume the combined populations of Rift/LortO/DDO and other F2P mmos have sizable populations,...compared to EVE's 500k......EVE is the most successful sandbox, and has peaked at a little over 500k...by your definition of faileur, Sandbox was never a success.

So tell me...if ESO and Wildstar "fail", whats left then? By your very own logic, themepark succeeded, then failed, and sandbox never succeeded to begin with..

Posts like these warm my cockles

jpnz

Didn't GW2 make like $300 million?

Didn't SWTOR make $170 million on cash shop alone?

 

Other than EVE, is there a 'successful' sandbox MMORPG?

Xiaoki

If ESO flops it will most likely not be because it was a themepark or it had a subscription.

No, if ESO flops it will be because it was simply not a good game.

Even if ESO was a sandbox it would flop and people would be making topics stating that "sandboxes dont work in today's casual market".

Lastly, what is a success? SWTOR has proven to be a success. Is your definition of success for an MMO that you personally like it irregardless of financial stability?

laserit

I think it's not so much that Theme Parks are dying, But will another style of MMORPG come to the forefront.

 

A good game is a good game no matter what the style

 

dancingstar

Originally posted by Xiaoki

<snippage>

Lastly, what is a success? SWTOR has proven to be a success. Is your definition of success for an MMO that you personally like it irregardless of financial stability?

Well the general use of the word "fail" on these forums as applied to MMOs seems to be "I personally dislike this game," so . . .

doodphace

Originally posted by dancingstar

Originally posted by Xiaoki

Lastly, what is a success? SWTOR has proven to be a success. Is your definition of success for an MMO that you personally like it irregardless of financial stability?

Well the general use of the word "fail" on these forums as applied to MMOs seems to be "I personally dislike this game," so . . .

Well, its more like it failed if it didn't overtake WoW, unless its an MMO they like. Then its "you dont need 8 million players to be a success".

Time and time again lol.

DeserttFoxx

It is not the theme park that's the problem its the 6 button action minimal ui no risk all reward design philosophy these new games are employing . creating easy games for the lowest common denominator that only give 10 hours of game play instead of trying to get you to live a second life in a fantastic new world is the problem.

SirBalin

I don't agree at all.  I will say, I'm a hardcore pvp sandbox player and I can't stand themeparks.  However, there are tons of people just looking for a tab target less complicated scripted themepark.  There is a huge market for them.

azzamasin

Originally posted by boxsnd
How many failures does the industry need to realize that it only worked for WoW? It doesn't work for anyone else. 9 years of flops and counting. When will it end?

As long as Blizzard make a bagillion dollars with WoW every year then you'll always have greedy corporate suits trying to harness those same big bucks. 

 

So in essence you'll never ever see the demise of themeparks.  Best bet is to put your faith in solid small scale games but be ready to suffer through lots of bugs and mediocre polish.  Path of Exile taught me to enjoy a good independent game for what its worth but I'll have to be extremely weary of all indie games still.  As polish is something I have to have in a game.

Ezhae

Originally posted by laserit

I think it's not so much that Theme Parks are dying, But will another style of MMORPG come to the forefront.

 

A good game is a good game no matter what the style

 

The whole game industry, and not only game industry, was always about iteration and evolution of genres. If anything will ever happen to themepark it will be just that, it will change to fit the demand.

The thing is, people like many elements of themeparks. The structure, the "loot shiny stuff" aspect, the fact they always try to occupy the player with new distractions. As much as the idea of sandbox is great and all, majority of the so called playerbase on the market feels lost when confronted with pure sandbox. They will enjoy the freedom for few weeks and then just get bored because there is "nothing to do".  

Yes, there is need for something more but same time it's not entirely letting go of the themepark formula. People like what's familiar to them. 

FlyinDutchman87

No....

 

It'll just prove that ESO and Wildstar were bad games.....

 

 

FlawSGI

Originally posted by SirBalin
I don't agree at all.  I will say, I'm a hardcore pvp sandbox player and I can't stand themeparks.  However, there are tons of people just looking for a tab target less complicated scripted themepark.  There is a huge market for them.

I am not sure if this is a jab or not. So tab targeting and simplicity define a themepark now? The definition of themepark and sandbox get more convoluted every post regarding the subject.

 

I enjoy good games and don't really have a preference either way, but I'd like to point out I have tried EvE and it seemed far less complicated than many themeparks I have played. I don't think the reason games have been failing is because they were themeparks, they have just been lackluster and swimming in a market saturated with MMORPG's. I find myself falling right in the middle where I like some of the themepark ellements but hate when games are over linear. I also think total freedom can be a detriment as well but it would be nice to have more than we have been getting in games that have released lately.

MamasGun

Originally posted by dancingstar

Originally posted by Xiaoki

Lastly, what is a success? SWTOR has proven to be a success. Is your definition of success for an MMO that you personally like it irregardless of financial stability?

Well the general use of the word "fail" on these forums as applied to MMOs seems to be "I personally dislike this game," so . . .

Pretty much this.  Also of note:  I'm not quite sure of who you are as a human being, but if you this kind of person, I don't think I'll be agreeing on anything with you, OP.

FlawSGI

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx
It is not the theme park that's the problem its the 6 button action minimal ui no risk all reward design philosophy these new games are employing . creating easy games for the lowest common denominator that only give 10 hours of game play instead of trying to get you to live a second life in a fantastic new world is the problem.

QFT. I have to say I don't mind less though on the UI. I think skill bloat is just as much of a turnoff. Now if a game was designed where there were skills to use that did not focus solely on combat then sure more is better. But when I have 10+ skills to utilize and they mostly do the same stuff then I don't see how it is really a better alternative since really they become fillers while I wait for CD's.

laserit

Originally posted by Ezhae

Originally posted by laserit

I think it's not so much that Theme Parks are dying, But will another style of MMORPG come to the forefront.

 

A good game is a good game no matter what the style

 

The whole game industry, and not only game industry, was always about iteration and evolution of genres. If anything will ever happen to themepark it will be just that, it will change to fit the demand.

The thing is, people like many elements of themeparks. The structure, the "loot shiny stuff" aspect, the fact they always try to occupy the player with new distractions. As much as the idea of sandbox is great and all, majority of the so called playerbase on the market feels lost when confronted with pure sandbox. They will enjoy the freedom for few weeks and then just get bored because there is "nothing to do".  

Yes, there is need for something more but same time it's not entirely letting go of the themepark formula. People like what's familiar to them. 

How dare you bring common sense into this debate!

 

The general theme park design is something that has gotten a little old and stale. I'm sure one day (hopefully not in the too distant future) developer's and technology will come up with a better way to keep player's occupied.

 

At one time Theme parks were fresh and new

azarhal

Originally posted by FlyinDutchman87

No....

 

It'll just prove that ESO and Wildstar were bad games.....

This^!

 

Khrymson

Originally posted by jpnz

Other than EVE, is there a 'successful' sandbox MMORPG?

 

Final Fantasy XI

onlinenow25

Originally posted by boxsnd
How many failures does the industry need to realize that it only worked for WoW? It doesn't work for anyone else. 9 years of flops and counting. When will it end?

Just gotta say, while ESO is questing on Rails with linear vertical progression it is not a WoW clone, its a DAoC clone.

Xthos

No, sandboxes were dead at one point too, and people said no one will make a AAA sandbox ever....Things change, but it takes a long time, because the Development cycle can be 5-8 years.

 

I think everything will still be made, just as I am hopeful for MMOs like original EQ, VG, Pantheon and such, I prefer more old school/classic stuff myself.  I generally do not like stuff like GW2, NW, ESO, but people do, so I am fine with them, just as people should be fine with it that other people do not like those games, even if they love them.

 

I think the next big hit is going to be more hybrid myself.

Lipstickpaddy

Hypothecically if Wildstar and Elder Scrolls Online aren't successful long term, then remember Blizzard are still working on Titan and that is going to be 'themepark'. 

Naral

Everyone talks about the failure of themeparks, but it is arguable that one single themepark (WoW) has made more money than all the other MMORPGs ever published, sandbox or themepark, combined. So, I would say when WoW dies, and then has no successor(s), you can say themeparks are dead.

And I doubt that on paper ESO will be a failure, even if it does end up being a painted turd. It will make enough in box sales alone to make it profitable, especially when you factor in millions of console players who are not even looking at the internet, and just buying games that interest them as they come out. To a company, success is defined as a profitable product, not necessarily a good product. Many companies sell products they know are crap, but they make millions, even billions off them. 

When *that* trend stops, themeparks will be dead. I don't see that ever happening.

VengeSunsoar

Well considering that after some restructuring because their initial business model wasn't reasonable to convert their costs almost all of them are making money hand over fist.

So how many flops have their been again?

Xthos

Originally posted by Lipstickpaddy
Hypothecically if Wildstar and Elder Scrolls Online aren't successful long term, then remember Blizzard are still working on Titan and that is going to be 'themepark'. 

 Have they confirmed that, after the refocus?