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TESO: "The skyrim skin cannot make up for MMO mediocrities" (Not my OP)

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Comments

  • spizzspizz Member UncommonPosts: 1,971

    "I can't speak to the whole game. "

     

    Thats the problem, even beta testers cant tell that since the enterable areas are limited.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    I never felt that i wanted to be playing a different mmorpg. Maybe it made me want to play skyrim or morrowind but definitely not another mmorpg. he gives out about the story and then makes this statement:

    "In The Elder Scrolls Online, the Daedric Prince Molag Bal is making incursions into Tamriel. The main quest has you escaping one of these events, then following the guidance of a prophet.

    That’s about all you need to know, really, as you’ll be hammering “skip” for the rest of it."

    Maybe if he didn't skip the story he might have enjoyed the experience better.

    There are a lot of players (if not the majority) who do not play games to read a book. In fact I bet most people never read quests in RPGs. I know I dont which is why I like the Elder Scrolls series so much it allows for that option....realistically allow.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • ariestearieste Member UncommonPosts: 3,309
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    Originally posted by arieste
    Originally posted by nerovipus32

    Maybe if he didn't skip the story he might have enjoyed the experience better.

    Maybe if the story was better, he woudln't  have skipped it.

     

    Look at this reviewer's background.  The only MMO they admit to liking is TSW, which is a game that is like 99% story.  (Mindya, TSW is probably the best written, best-voiced and "best quests in general" game out there, so it's hard to live up to that).

    There is no way he could know if the story was good or bad if he skipped it.

    Yet the reviewer clearly knows the story (since it's summarized in the article).  Quite the puzzle then, eh?  They skipped the story... yet they know the story.  Impossible!  Or perhaps you just took the word "skip" literally to suit your argument, rather than understanding that it actually meant "started skipping text when it got boring", which is the way I think it was meant to be interpreted.  

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
    Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
    Currently Playing: ESO

  • ariestearieste Member UncommonPosts: 3,309
    Originally posted by spizz

    "I can't speak to the whole game. "

     

    Thats the problem, even beta testers cant tell that since the enterable areas are limited.

    Right, that's why we talk about the parts we know.  It's pretty much a given assumption when talking about an unreleased game - that nobody has full information.    If we all knew everything 100%, there would be no need for the discussion in the first place.  

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
    Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
    Currently Playing: ESO

  • ShodanasShodanas Member RarePosts: 1,933
    The writer states from the very beginning that she is not a fan of MMORPG's. Which by default makes her article biased. 
  • spizzspizz Member UncommonPosts: 1,971
    Originally posted by arieste
    Originally posted by spizz

    "It's not even as good as Skyrim, which is kinda ridiculous given it's the same company and the same world.  "

     

    Thats good, I have not played a single mmo which would be that great like Skyrim. Especially with mods. Its like the reviewer, people expect too much. Skyrim with mods is high end, the top.

    Fallen Earth is basically an MMO version of Skyrim (in a different setting).    (It actually even has a similar opening sequence where you barely escape a life-threatening situation only to be thrust into a wide open world where you can do anything you want (and follow the main story if you like). 

     

    It's not like Skyrim is some unattainable ideal.  It's just a large world, with an open skill system and many different places to explore.  It has virtually nothing that can't be recreated in a multiplayer setting.    As it stands, LoTRO is closer in feel to Skyrim than ESO  (in lotro you run across a huge world and run into ancient ruins full of bandits or whatever - that is like the ultimate "skryim expriences" if you will).    And something you do not experience in ESO.  At least not the first major zone of it anyway.  I can't speak to the whole game. 

    Yeah I understand, but I really did mean an mmo great like Skyrim with all its content. Thats impossible and does not exist in any mmo. Therefore I had to giggle a bit since someone said "it is not even as good as Skyrim".

  • osc8rosc8r Member UncommonPosts: 688
    Originally posted by Heavy-armor-warrior
    Originally posted by osc8r
    Sadly i agree with article 100%.

    What parts. Give me examples.

    I can't, NDA still?

    There's some here: rockpapershotgun review of eso

  • SoulTrapOnSelfSoulTrapOnSelf Member Posts: 190

    This is what happens when MMO devs design themeparks and force gamers to be a hero in every corner of the map, and one has to complete the dull quests not related to the main story because otherwise you won't get XP/gear, etc; let's see what happens when the thief and dark brotherhood guilds are added post launch. And since the game rating is "M", I am expecting these guilds to be epic!

    I only experienced a fun chain quest not related to the main storyline. The rest felt like fillers. And this is why many players will skip the NPC conversations. It's a waste of time to be listening to a mumbo-jumbo story and realize that it's another kill x of this or pick up x of that.

  • RoguewizRoguewiz Member UncommonPosts: 711

    To each their own, I guess.  I didn't hate Skyrim, but I don't consider the Holy Grail that other people do.  I will agree that TESO has some of the standard generic MMO elements that all themepark games have.  However, it is still a nice change from WOW since the customization is better, and hopefully, the PVP is more meaningful.

    That being said

    If you're wanting a Skyrim clone with an online component, then TESO isn't for you.

    Raquelis in various games
    Played: Everything
    Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
    Wants: The World
    Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring

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  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Originally posted by kairel182
    Originally posted by Tierless

    I still don't understand how they seemingly neglected the hallmark of the Elder Scrolls games, a vast open world of danger. It isn't the freaken skill system or combat system or quest system that makes an ES game, it the WORLD! disappointing.

    That's the problem with such a fantastic single player franchise going MMO, it just won't work.  It absolutely CANNOT be anything like the single player version of games, because to be large enough to satisfy player density, it would have to be the size of current Elder Scrolls titles multiplied by the number of player capacity per server.  At a couple hundred this is not possible because even a hundred players crammed into the current space of those games would be a nightmare.

     

    This is another reason why they haven't even done anything multiplayer (which is the only thing that would make ES titles even better).  An MMO modeled after this franchise is just destined to fail from the start.  It's a balance of technical problems with world building size and player capacity and the inability to allow true freedom in an MMO due to the nature of humans being assholes online.

    wrong wrong wrong.

    Darkfall Online is very similar to an Elder Scrolls experience. It desnt have to be the EXACT game but here are a few tips for making a Elder Scrolls MMO

    no classes

    no levels

    skill based only

    not quest dependent.

    I have played 3 mmos that have that  forumla

    open world

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • SenanSenan Member UncommonPosts: 788
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    I never felt that i wanted to be playing a different mmorpg. Maybe it made me want to play skyrim or morrowind but definitely not another mmorpg. he gives out about the story and then makes this statement:

    "In The Elder Scrolls Online, the Daedric Prince Molag Bal is making incursions into Tamriel. The main quest has you escaping one of these events, then following the guidance of a prophet.

    That’s about all you need to know, really, as you’ll be hammering “skip” for the rest of it."

    Maybe if he didn't skip the story he might have enjoyed the experience better.

    There are a lot of players (if not the majority) who do not play games to read a book. In fact I bet most people never read quests in RPGs. I know I dont which is why I like the Elder Scrolls series so much it allows for that option....realistically allow.

    If reading is a problem for you, play a different genre. Simple as that.

    image
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Originally posted by Seilan
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    I never felt that i wanted to be playing a different mmorpg. Maybe it made me want to play skyrim or morrowind but definitely not another mmorpg. he gives out about the story and then makes this statement:

    "In The Elder Scrolls Online, the Daedric Prince Molag Bal is making incursions into Tamriel. The main quest has you escaping one of these events, then following the guidance of a prophet.

    That’s about all you need to know, really, as you’ll be hammering “skip” for the rest of it."

    Maybe if he didn't skip the story he might have enjoyed the experience better.

    There are a lot of players (if not the majority) who do not play games to read a book. In fact I bet most people never read quests in RPGs. I know I dont which is why I like the Elder Scrolls series so much it allows for that option....realistically allow.

    If reading is a problem for you, play a different genre. Simple as that.

    lol...I have been playing RPGs for 30 years bro...as well as built my own mod for neverwinter nights 1

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • SenanSenan Member UncommonPosts: 788
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by Seilan
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    I never felt that i wanted to be playing a different mmorpg. Maybe it made me want to play skyrim or morrowind but definitely not another mmorpg. he gives out about the story and then makes this statement:

    "In The Elder Scrolls Online, the Daedric Prince Molag Bal is making incursions into Tamriel. The main quest has you escaping one of these events, then following the guidance of a prophet.

    That’s about all you need to know, really, as you’ll be hammering “skip” for the rest of it."

    Maybe if he didn't skip the story he might have enjoyed the experience better.

    There are a lot of players (if not the majority) who do not play games to read a book. In fact I bet most people never read quests in RPGs. I know I dont which is why I like the Elder Scrolls series so much it allows for that option....realistically allow.

    If reading is a problem for you, play a different genre. Simple as that.

    lol...I have been playing RPGs for 30 years bro...as well as built my own mod for neverwinter nights 1

    And yet you have a problem with storytelling in an RPG? I don't even know what to say to that.

    image
  • ariestearieste Member UncommonPosts: 3,309
    Originally posted by Seilan

    And yet you have a problem with storytelling in an RPG? I don't even know what to say to that.

    Perhaps he is saying that "storytelling in a RPG" need not be limited to an NPC spamming a wall of poorly written text or its voiced equivalent.

     

     

     

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
    Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
    Currently Playing: ESO

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Originally posted by Seilan
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by Seilan
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    I never felt that i wanted to be playing a different mmorpg. Maybe it made me want to play skyrim or morrowind but definitely not another mmorpg. he gives out about the story and then makes this statement:

    "In The Elder Scrolls Online, the Daedric Prince Molag Bal is making incursions into Tamriel. The main quest has you escaping one of these events, then following the guidance of a prophet.

    That’s about all you need to know, really, as you’ll be hammering “skip” for the rest of it."

    Maybe if he didn't skip the story he might have enjoyed the experience better.

    There are a lot of players (if not the majority) who do not play games to read a book. In fact I bet most people never read quests in RPGs. I know I dont which is why I like the Elder Scrolls series so much it allows for that option....realistically allow.

    If reading is a problem for you, play a different genre. Simple as that.

    lol...I have been playing RPGs for 30 years bro...as well as built my own mod for neverwinter nights 1

    And yet you have a problem with storytelling in an RPG? I don't even know what to say to that.

    doesnt surprise me at all.

    There have always been two types of players in RPGs going all the way back to D&D table top. The lovers of stories and the lovers of exploring and building.

    Both are valid game plays, neither is wrong in the genre. I perfer the non-story game play EXCEPT when the players can basically make the story simply by playing the game (aka Darkfall World War 1).

    It should be pointed out that D&D came from stradegy war games, not stories

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • SenanSenan Member UncommonPosts: 788
    Originally posted by arieste
    Originally posted by Seilan

    And yet you have a problem with storytelling in an RPG? I don't even know what to say to that.

    Perhaps he is saying that "storytelling in a RPG" need not be limited to an NPC spamming a wall of poorly written text or its voiced equivalent.

     

     

     

    I'm sorry, are we talking about a game like that? (And yes, I know your views on ESO already, I just don't agree with them.)

    image
  • SenanSenan Member UncommonPosts: 788
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by Seilan
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by Seilan
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    I never felt that i wanted to be playing a different mmorpg. Maybe it made me want to play skyrim or morrowind but definitely not another mmorpg. he gives out about the story and then makes this statement:

    "In The Elder Scrolls Online, the Daedric Prince Molag Bal is making incursions into Tamriel. The main quest has you escaping one of these events, then following the guidance of a prophet.

    That’s about all you need to know, really, as you’ll be hammering “skip” for the rest of it."

    Maybe if he didn't skip the story he might have enjoyed the experience better.

    There are a lot of players (if not the majority) who do not play games to read a book. In fact I bet most people never read quests in RPGs. I know I dont which is why I like the Elder Scrolls series so much it allows for that option....realistically allow.

    If reading is a problem for you, play a different genre. Simple as that.

    lol...I have been playing RPGs for 30 years bro...as well as built my own mod for neverwinter nights 1

    And yet you have a problem with storytelling in an RPG? I don't even know what to say to that.

    doesnt surprise me at all.

    There have always been two types of players in RPGs going all the way back to D&D table top. The lovers of stories and the lovers of exploring and building.

    Both are valid game plays, neither is wrong in the genre. I perfer the non-story game play EXCEPT when the players can basically make the story simply by playing the game (aka Darkfall World War 1).

    It should be pointed out that D&D came from stradegy war games, not stories

    Fair enough.

    image
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Originally posted by Seilan
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by Seilan
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by Seilan
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    I never felt that i wanted to be playing a different mmorpg. Maybe it made me want to play skyrim or morrowind but definitely not another mmorpg. he gives out about the story and then makes this statement:

    "In The Elder Scrolls Online, the Daedric Prince Molag Bal is making incursions into Tamriel. The main quest has you escaping one of these events, then following the guidance of a prophet.

    That’s about all you need to know, really, as you’ll be hammering “skip” for the rest of it."

    Maybe if he didn't skip the story he might have enjoyed the experience better.

    There are a lot of players (if not the majority) who do not play games to read a book. In fact I bet most people never read quests in RPGs. I know I dont which is why I like the Elder Scrolls series so much it allows for that option....realistically allow.

    If reading is a problem for you, play a different genre. Simple as that.

    lol...I have been playing RPGs for 30 years bro...as well as built my own mod for neverwinter nights 1

    And yet you have a problem with storytelling in an RPG? I don't even know what to say to that.

    doesnt surprise me at all.

    There have always been two types of players in RPGs going all the way back to D&D table top. The lovers of stories and the lovers of exploring and building.

    Both are valid game plays, neither is wrong in the genre. I perfer the non-story game play EXCEPT when the players can basically make the story simply by playing the game (aka Darkfall World War 1).

    It should be pointed out that D&D came from stradegy war games, not stories

    Fair enough.

    The solution is basically let the players have options.

    That is what works and its easy to design

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • YamotaYamota Member UncommonPosts: 6,593
    The preview is pretty much what I expect of the game. WoW in Elder Scrolls skin. Pass.
  • blastermasterblastermaster Member UncommonPosts: 259
    Originally posted by Teala
    Originally posted by Jimmy562
    Originally posted by Teala

    This game might sell well, say 2 million copies(and that is being generous), is because the IP, but it will not have any staying power.  It really doesn't offer anything to keep people playing.   Don't tell me RvR will keep people playing.  It has never worked in post WoW games, not Aion, not AoC, not SWTOR...no game that counts on RvR to keep people playing has succeeded in retaining players.   Also, anyone that has beta'd the game knows how generic it is, the unleashed number of gaming site video reviews provers that.  It is linear, you have little options of combat and will be cast the same spells over and over again ad nauseam(just upgraded versions of an existing spell), which gets old after awhile, and let's not even go into character clothing and armor.   For instance, sorcerers will look like every other sorcerer through the game.    One of the things that killed it for me in SWTOR was the lack of diverse clothing options(when I beta'd) it was rediculous that they didn't have more clothing options.   This game is no different.

    Since the videos show the game for the first 15 levels or so, you can see for yourself that there is no underwater swimming in this game.  That means no underwater exploration.  I guess the developers thought they'd just stick to above ground adventures.   It is also very linear and what is with the MOB placement?  ::rolls her eyes::

    If you are going into this game thinking it is more than what it is...I think you'll be saddened that it is nothing more than a genric MMO themepark, with Elder Scrolls skins slapped on.    

    I could tell you lots more, but the NDA forbids us talking about it past level 15.     Which sadly, this is what Funcom did with AoC and EA did with SWToR.  So, all I have to say is, buyer beware.    Don't expect a whole lot from this game that you haven't all ready seen in countless other MMO's post WoW.

    Don't be silly. You can wear any type of armor you want coupled with the fact you can make 10 different styles of that armor including Imperial. I could have Breton heavy chest piece, Khajiit style legs, Imperial helmet, Orc shoulders the list goes on. You have a ton of choice how you want to look like.

    I honestly don't see how the NDA is stopping you from saying more since what you are saying is total BS.

    Sure, you can wear any type of armor, problem is that if you wear armor not specific for your class you lose protection bonuses and your armor spells are less effective.   If you played beta you'd know this.   Sorcerers get better protection wearing light clothing/armor.    So, what I said was true, unless you just wear whatever you pick up and slap on - and hey, if you don't care for aesthetics and the fact that you get better protection wearing class specific armor - go ahead, and gimp yourself.  

     

    You ignore the fact that you can have 10 different styles in a single armor type.. This means that you have access to 10 different looks for every single piece of armor of a specific level.... 10 * number of equipment slots, ends up like a lot of possibilities no?   I think they have enough armor style for a "fresh" game ( I've seen a lot worse than that over the years...).

  • blastermasterblastermaster Member UncommonPosts: 259
    Originally posted by Yamota
    The preview is pretty much what I expect of the game. WoW in Elder Scrolls skin. Pass.

     

    If you like to make up your mind based on someone else's experience, I guess that's ok...

  • sevitothsevitoth Member UncommonPosts: 375

    "I am not an expert in MMORPGs – or much of a fan of them."

     

    I stopped reading right there.

     

     

    Currently Playing: DAOC Uthgard

    Previously Played: UO, DAOC, Shadowbane, AC2, SWG, Horizons, COX, WOW, EQ2, LOTRO, AOC, WAR, Vanguard, Rift, SWTOR, ESO, GW2.

  • Jimmy562Jimmy562 Member UncommonPosts: 1,158
    Originally posted by Teala
    Originally posted by Jimmy562
    Originally posted by Teala

    This game might sell well, say 2 million copies(and that is being generous), is because the IP, but it will not have any staying power.  It really doesn't offer anything to keep people playing.   Don't tell me RvR will keep people playing.  It has never worked in post WoW games, not Aion, not AoC, not SWTOR...no game that counts on RvR to keep people playing has succeeded in retaining players.   Also, anyone that has beta'd the game knows how generic it is, the unleashed number of gaming site video reviews provers that.  It is linear, you have little options of combat and will be cast the same spells over and over again ad nauseam(just upgraded versions of an existing spell), which gets old after awhile, and let's not even go into character clothing and armor.   For instance, sorcerers will look like every other sorcerer through the game.    One of the things that killed it for me in SWTOR was the lack of diverse clothing options(when I beta'd) it was rediculous that they didn't have more clothing options.   This game is no different.

    Since the videos show the game for the first 15 levels or so, you can see for yourself that there is no underwater swimming in this game.  That means no underwater exploration.  I guess the developers thought they'd just stick to above ground adventures.   It is also very linear and what is with the MOB placement?  ::rolls her eyes::

    If you are going into this game thinking it is more than what it is...I think you'll be saddened that it is nothing more than a genric MMO themepark, with Elder Scrolls skins slapped on.    

    I could tell you lots more, but the NDA forbids us talking about it past level 15.     Which sadly, this is what Funcom did with AoC and EA did with SWToR.  So, all I have to say is, buyer beware.    Don't expect a whole lot from this game that you haven't all ready seen in countless other MMO's post WoW.

    Don't be silly. You can wear any type of armor you want coupled with the fact you can make 10 different styles of that armor including Imperial. I could have Breton heavy chest piece, Khajiit style legs, Imperial helmet, Orc shoulders the list goes on. You have a ton of choice how you want to look like.

    I honestly don't see how the NDA is stopping you from saying more since what you are saying is total BS.

    Sure, you can wear any type of armor, problem is that if you wear armor not specific for your class you lose protection bonuses and your armor spells are less effective.   If you played beta you'd know this.   Sorcerers get better protection wearing light clothing/armor.    So, what I said was true, unless you just wear whatever you pick up and slap on - and hey, if you don't care for aesthetics and the fact that you get better protection wearing class specific armor - go ahead, and gimp yourself.  

    I don't recall anything saying you get better protection while wearing armor specific for your class. You get better magicka, stamina or health regeneration from the armors but nothing about better protection based on class.

    Also not all sorcerer's are going to play the same way, some may only use magic every so often and use their weapon as the primary damage dealer in which case you wouldn't need the magicka bonuses.

     

    Even if you could only wear light, medium or heavy my point still stands as well. You can wear around 10 different styles of light armor and mix and match. Still have plenty of choice if that was the case.

  • NitthNitth Member UncommonPosts: 3,904


    Originally posted by Heavy-armor-warrior

    Originally posted by Notimeforbs

    Originally posted by nerovipus32

    Originally posted by Heavy-armor-warrior

    Originally posted by nerovipus32 I never felt that i wanted to be playing a different mmorpg. Maybe it made me want to play skyrim or morrowind but definitely not another mmorpg. he gives out about the story and then makes this statement: "In The Elder Scrolls Online, the Daedric Prince Molag Bal is making incursions into Tamriel. The main quest has you escaping one of these events, then following the guidance of a prophet. That’s about all you need to know, really, as you’ll be hammering “skip” for the rest of it." Maybe if he didn't skip the story he might have enjoyed the experience better.
    Yeah, why would you want to skip the story anyways? This guy must not be playing right.
    Why would you not want to know the story of a game that you are investing time into?
    I don't understand that metality either.  The best I can put it is that they don't care about half of the game.  They just want to kill stuff.  And frankly... that's kind of missing the point to the game.  Man... I wish people could learn to stop judging things based on their dysfunctional self-centered expectations.  You have to at least meet things halfway, and these people just won't.
    Its just weird isnt it?

    ...IF you want a great story experience why not just play a single player rpg?
    or you could shell out per month for a medicore story that will most probably be open ended...

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • funyahnsfunyahns Member Posts: 315

     Here is the thing about these critics that should worry you if you are hoping that this game is going to be a giant out of the park homerun.  Getting the fans who are supporting it now is easy I mean they would practically have to spit on you to stop you from buying it.  Its getting the on the fence people, the console fans. Which would mean tapping into that xbox 360 ps3 Skyrim/CoD type of gamer.  You are not going to hit 5 million subs unless a lot of not MMO fans buy it and play.  That is how WoW got its success  was by pulling in people who are not fans of the genre.  When I hear this guy, or Angry Joe who I consider a console gamer saying its not good it is a troubling sign.

     Which does not mean the game cant go on to sell a few million copies and hold 350-750 subs It just means it is not going to be a juggernaut. Which is the reason you spend the 9 figures out.  You don't spend that money to break even, you spend it in an attempt to produce a cash cow. After all you know that you can make a TeS 6 and sell 10 million copies in a day.  Also you can do it a fraction of the cost.

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