Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Beta weekend not enough to review (?)
Alumicard
Member UncommonPosts: 388
Forget if you like it or not for one moment, that post is not about love or hate. I'm just wondering if the reviewers had enough time to actually do their job, if they are pro or con doesnt matter.
The game got compared to DAoC quite a lot so I hope you agree with or understand my choice to take it as an example.
If you judged DAoC by just its first 10 levels then you had missed out on many features/mechanics. I will leave PvP out of the equation because some like it, some don't and that is not the point of this thread.
Some skills, builds and other stuff didnt make much sense on low level but later added up to something fun. Not sure how familiar you all are with the game so let me explain one example: Pet Pull
In DAoC most classes that could summon pets had a buff which reflected dmg dealt to the pet back to the attacker. On low level that didn't help much because your pet was weak and on many occasions died faster than people could heal it or because the spell needed to be channeled and used a lot of mana you couldnt hold it up long enough to kill stuff.
But once you reached high level, got a stronger (tank) pet and had a buff char with you, 20+ high level mobs were easy. Tanking an artifact boss (high dmg,tough) sometimes need an extra healer but were still easy.
So what I try to get at is, If you really want to review ESO you kind of have to listen to the voice acting, you have to read the quests to "judge" if they are well written or not, you have to explore the world and visit at least some camps/towns which are "hidden". The skill system alone takes time to see how skills evolve. How I understand it, you can choose to upgrade a skill into A or B. So if you take A then I guess you cant go back and take B but have to level another char to take B. Then with the next skill upgrade you have the choice between A-C or A-D and on your second char B-E or B-F aso.
With all that, do you think that anyone can actually give an accurate review by playing it for a weekend?
IMHO, you can't and review sites should get full access. Because someone who just wants to play endgame and doesnt like the leveling will give it a bad review because you dont have enough time to actually play end game. Someone who likes the leveling /story part and doesnt care much about end game might give it a good review. For me, right now, it's not much about the game but about the ones who play it. What do you think?
Comments
The only part of the game that looks and feels like dAoC is the PvP..... The rest of the game does not resemble Daoc for a seccond.... However the PvP works like an improved version of DAoC because the combat works extraordinary good in PvP..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Ultimately, the success or failure of an MMO depends upon its endgame - what activities are there to do once you've ground through all the leveling content. Good PVP certainly helps, as it gives people a reason to keep playing, but for the non-PVPers, most games end up falling to a "grind through dungeons to gear up" and then "grind through raids to gear up more" scheme. SWTOR may only have failed early on because of its quick grind (it took only a few instance playthroughs to get raid ready), for instance.
If ESO's beta didn't include end-game content, then it's impossible to speculate whether the game mechanics that make it awesome now will matter at all after people grind through all that content.
TL;DR -> no, they couldn't possibly.
Me Lord, I might have expressed myself falsely.
I didnt ment to indicate it plays like DAoC skillwise or anything. I'm sure many more games change during your adventures. It was just the first game that came to mind.
It does make you wonder why ZOS allowed a NDA lift for the media to review the early part of the game. It's pretty well known at this point that the game doesn't truly open up until after you leave the starter areas and reach main land. It's almost like ZOS is intentionally trying to drive down the hype of their own game. I think for most people, the weekend really isn't enough to get to the appropriate level to access some of the more interesting features that actually make the game start to shine.
Had I not already had a character on the main land, I wouldn't have seen it for myself either. That took me all of the previous beta weekend to do as well. Thank goodness I didn't have to slog through that starter area for the third straight time.
Your comment would have been false if not for the pre-order bonus allowing you to play any race, any alliance. Still, that aside, most people will only get to choose certain races for certain alliances. That's exactly what DAoC had. Not only that, each faction has it's own secluded lands to level up through, which is the exact same world design of TESO. Imperial City is also exactly like Darkness Falls in DAoC. DAoC also didn't have instanced PvP, like TESO. TESO has public dungeons, just like DAoC did.
See, I could go on. But I've proven my point that you haven't the faintest clue as to what you are talking about.
If a weekend of concentrated game time isn't enough time to give a good review of the game, then (to me) that's a good thing. I am fine with games that can be played in a month or two, but it would be nice if there was a game that had many months of non-repetitive game play.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Personally, I think you should take previews (not reviews) for what they are worth. Most of what you read or watched was opinion based, and not a whole lot of fact based. Instead of a description of what a game is all about, you heard some reaction to it, and I think individuals should decide for their own.
That said, there is a pretty common theme that the first 5-9 levels did not suck people in to the game, and get them to commit, unless of course you are a fan already. I understand the games opens up past level 10, but telling someone to play for 4-5 hours before it's fun usually does not work. Many MMO's seem to polish starter areas, and demonstrate what makes them different as quickly as possible to suck people in. I'm not sure that ESO is doing that.
Personally, I enjoyed things past level 10, while I don't think many previews touched on what makes the game different, I think the reason for that is that it's not quite as obvious during those first levels, and I'm not sure if that's a mistake, by design, or even a good choice.
From what they said, PVE endgane would be 50+ and 50++. That means you'll go through the other two faction WHOLE areas (a phased version only for 50s AFAIR). There might be more, I don't remember, but an extra 66% of game to go through should occupy people for a while
And I think the difficulty goes up in 50+ and then again in 50++, to make it more group or raid oriented but don't quote me on this
It's crystal clear that the majority of "media opinions" (they don't even deserve to be called previews, let alone reviews) were published after the minimum possible amount of actual game play. Their focus seemed to be more concerned with being first to release and maximizing their viewer traffic.
It's inevitably what will happen when so many "reviewers" are attempting to make a living from being a YouTube personality. Who can blame them ? It beats getting a real job, lol, provided you can make it work.
So now we're in the age of "tabloid game reviews", where the content is optional but the controversy is always maximised...
I am very pleased to see that you changed your mind and will at least give it a try. I recall you being quite negative, what happened? Enjoyed more the beta? Just curious, no double meanings
Yup, it's clickbait.
Journalism has turned into trolling for page views.
That whole "slow start" thing has been overstated to death. I stick by my impression that most of that is unfamiliarity with a game system--combat, advancement, crafting, etc.--that is different enough from other current MMOs that you have to slow yourself down to get the hang of it.
the first thing you need to get used to is that advancement here is not just about levelling: finding 3 sky shards gives you the same amount of skill points, one, as going up a level...and there are 5 or 6 of those in each starting island. That's 2 extra skill points for the taking if you explore. And make no mistake, this isn't just about improving your weapon with use; skill point allocation into your actives AND passive is what it's all about. When you get to the next 5-15 area, there will be about 15 more to find... Your lore book gives you fair but a bit obscure hints about where they are.
Crafting... Any campfire in the world lets you cook... the provisioning skill you use there makes some very nice long duration buffs while still in the noob island.
Chests... There are tons of chests to find in that noob island... There is no better way to gear up early. Well worth learning the pick lock mechanics early.
Treasure maps.... Yes, noob island had them too.
Side quests... many to find in out of the way places even in noob island. Once in the second zone, there are a shit-ton of those.
So...is that enough "boring" slow shit in the first 10 levels for you?
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
There is two games... A PvP game and a PvE game......
everything related to the PvP game , the setup and all the things you describe breath and show they are the firstborn child of DAoC...
but the rest of the world, so i am talking PvE does not even resemble of DaOc the least bit..... Its story based, with instanced group based dungeons and adventure zones... DAoC PvE consisted out of a single thing GRINDING mobs all day long... In ESO you are the hero in many stories... The combat is so much different... 8 vs 4 group size... In the end you will be able to visit all 3 alliances....
Put it in the light of most casuall players, they will see the PvE game as the core... And the PvP as tagged on... To them the game does not look and feel anything like Daoc...
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Best way is always just play it yourself reviews before release are just hype or bashing and after release can be just as bad. Nowadays you tend to get free trials, I remember when if you wanted to see if you might like a mmo it equaled buy it and play the free month. I remember CoH stuck it out for awhile before offering a trial.
The goals/guidelines for the beta were (amongst others) to test the server load and the PvP, as well as to reach level 10 on a character. Now, it is quite possible that many players didn't manage/didn't stay long enough because they were bored or didn't have the time to.
Anyway... So what? Should we (us, individuals who are discussing game design on our free time) actually find excuses for a 200+ (paid, 8 hours a day) employees company with millions (number I pulled out of my backside), with experts of the industry, that has been working on a project for 3+ years...
Because they do not know the game design #1 rule:
Gamers have got the attention span of a goldfish
Now, if no one (manager or else) at ZO during the development process of ESO has been able to say: "Eh guys, I think... maybe our tutorial/10 first levels are a bit slow, maybe we should change that slightly... because... well, our gamers might be bored."
I'm sorry, but this is common knowledge that you have 10 minutes to grab the attention of a gamer.
Heck, ANYONE who goes to a job interview knows that the first minute of the interview, you will have been judged, stamped... and that you will be fighting an uphill battle to convince them you're good if you gave a bad impression initially.
How this could have escaped them is beyond me. So no. They have no excuses and they might pay a dear price for this.
I had to rush to reach level 10, and didn't experience enough of that depth, for sure. Which is a shame but I wanted to go PvP.
No, never for any MMORPGs a weekend is enough...
BUT people should have been lied to and should have been thinking unequivocally (after the weekend) that the game was great because they should have designed a top notch starter area. Even if the rest of the game was crap (which it isn't in this case).
Instead they have a mediocre starter area, and lots of people who will base their opinion of the game on this. It is ZO fault, not the people's fault, they are just "people", and I would agree with them generally that 10 levels should be enough to judge interest in a game (at least, these 10 levels should be off putting - they weren't for me, but I can see why others could have hated it).
Maybe they will rework the starter area (I don't know) to make it more user friendly. That would be a good idea.
PS: I should add that I am totally playing this game, because I thought it was fun, but I am disappointed that something as important as the first 10 levels aren't as great as they could have (because the game has what it needs to make them great). (also, I agree with the comment about accessibility - and the fact progress is initially slowed down because they do many things slightly differently)
So you're saying they overestimated the intelligence and attention span of players of a game with an M rating... you might be right at that
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
If you want to pvp before level 10 then moan about the level restriction but for gods sake don't ask them to speed up levelling. As for the attention span of a goldfish .. I think card games, singing etc things like that might help you. Some of us are fine with games that dont have big flashy lights and neon signs saying 'GO HERE'
Personally I'd like the games levelling slowed down
Amen.
And let's not forget that this was a stress test, not a 3 days trial of a finished product. The whole point was to give /feedback about the starting experience. If one felt it lacked in some way, I hope he sent them feedback about it. I know I did
Well, that's all good and well that you, an individual, are different but given that reviews of ESO weren't overall glorious, clearly something was missing and I doubt adding "card games, singing, etc. things like that" to the ESO would have helped.
I'm sure ZO would gladly sacrifice you, an individual, if 1 million gamers were to join the game in your stead.
And before you even go there... don't read what I've just written here as a defence of "neon signs" games, since we all know these games don't have nowadays the success they once had.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say they get that million and then some. I'd say they get at least 3 million units sold between the three platforms.
They gave them what they gave them. The press also didn't have a "beta weekend" in the sense that beta testers had it, they had press access which was even extended.
It's easy to blame the press saying "they should have done their jobs" etc. But you tell me: if a critic's first impression of a game is bad, isn't it his job to tell you exactly that his first impression was bad?
I heard none of the previews claiming that they saw everything about the game, even the most negative one I saw (the Rock Paper Shotgun one) was very clear on that.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Most off them never got past level 5.... And they played those few levels with only one thing in mind..... 1000 ways to trash a game... Negativity obviously sells much better these days then objectivity.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Either they are don't know their own game, the whole game is terrible or they are trying to downplay what they have for an easier launch. What I mean by easier launch is that every mmo launches big, has to put on more servers to meet demand and loses most of them within 2 months. Assuming the later game is really good word of mouth will bring in a lot of gamers later on.
I don't really know but it's odd they would limit what the press can play to the worst part of the game.
The point is not the content of the reviews, but the 'methodology'. They were openly biased against it for many reason and made no effort to hide it. They also played it like it was a wowclone and were upset that it took 'so long' to level and that combat was 'a click fest'
Thank god I received that beta invite last month