Originally posted by Boreil Its melee combat is better than any of the others out there like it right now, Tera/Raiderz/Neverwinter etc etc .
You must be joking.
I consider it slightly worse then Tera because I am not a fan of long winding animations that root you to the ground. Raiderz and Neverwinter are some of the most fun, engaging, visceral and fast paced action combat in the business. It's as if I am actually playing a Twitch based FPS but with melee. I understand some people like slower combat but slow sucks comparable to fast.
ESO's Combat, especially bow and melee are horribly slow, lack weight, and have rigid non flowing animations. The combat is easily the worse aspect of the game IMO. So much so that it still stands a rather high chance of complete failure because I am not the only one to mention it's horrible combat. With that being said, the Staff animations are pretty decent and about the opnly thing worthy of todays generation of combat animations.
FPS is not for everyone. If you say an MMO has FPS like gameplay to me...that game has failed instantly.
On that note, I argue then that Neverwinter and Raiderz has some of the WORST combat out there....
Contextually you are wrong but opinionated you are right. Personal opinions do not make the game any more or less bad. Because it's opinions. I have many opinions about Tab Target WoW style combat being bad and based on my opinions I'd be right but on context I'd be wrong because their combat has no weakness other then personal preference. However with ESO, the fact that the game lacks weight, is floaty and has static combat animations is not a matter of opinion, but fact. hence the combat is bad.
Neverwinter and Raiderz combat lacks none of the facts that make them a bad combat game but only opinions that make them so.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
I agree with you OP. There is no feel to the combat at all. It's like that for ranged combat too, though it's definitely less noticeable because at least you see your ranged attacks connecting. The ability mechanics are also bland, been there done that stuff like standard CC whereas a game like Wildstar at least has some creative ability mechanics.
Originally posted by AIMonster I agree with you OP. There is no feel to the combat at all. It's like that for ranged combat too, though it's definitely less noticeable because at least you see your ranged attacks connecting. The ability mechanics are also bland, been there done that stuff like standard CC whereas a game like Wildstar at least has some creative ability mechanics.
Biggest issue I have with Bow animations is you actually have to release the Left Mouse button fire off the arrow. Very hard to know how long you actually have to hold it down to fire off a Power Attack. Hopefully this can be fixed with a Mod but I'd rather it be like all action based reticule combat that keeping the mouse button pressed will continuously fire off power attacks.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
I am not sure if it's the worst, but it is certainly unworthy of an expensive Triple AAA MMO.
Indeed, I too felt zero impact behind the melee swings. I could have attacked the air for all it mattered. Horrible indeed. It is something I could live with, if the rest of the game was great. But combat is always something people will do a substantial part of the time in a MMO, so I can't fathom why they made it so amateurish.
The entire combat animations - actually ALL animations - of ESO aren't something you enjoy watching. (Unlike GW2 or Wildstar animations.)
AoC had cool melee. I loved how hacking my axes into some dude made a real THUD. ^^
Well, tbh it is an Elder Scrolls game. ES always had horrible melee combat animations, I think it's tradition.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I played the game on max settings, i thought it was my computer at some point, but i have a mid to high end machine, i played both a melee and ranged character, and i must say if the melee feels lifeless and show off a lot of bad animations (much worse than what skyrim had in it's 1.0 form, at least you felt some realism and impact against ennemies and a feel of motion capture animation smoothness at times in battles, and ennemies being "hit" with weapon weight / getting knocked down or backing off a little, it had much more combat feedback.)
Bow animations are so lackluster... You can see them from a recent video from force there :
Even with the assets and bow combat animations in morrowind, you wouldn't have so much stuttering / instability / "core" animation frameskip and cheapness/ clunkyness in bow combat animation, and i'm not talking about "fps" there, i'm talking about actual animated frames of how the quality of the character is firing with bow, if melee combat with one and two handed weapons are already suffering from the really bad quality animations assets Zenimax gave them, god... Bows are easily the worst, if you make a direct comparison to how bow behave and is animated in eso with skyrim or even oblivion you would be amazed by the lack of two things :
Animation quality
Stuttering character that seems like he's either on drugs or too nervous, making his bow go up / down, any direction as his animations are clearly not made for first person view, let alone third person, he still looks stiff and as if he had a broom up the ass.
Polycount... i thought we were over 6 edges / polygon side to modelize an arm, but god i thought i was back playing a post 2000 game... just look at the bracers and the shape of the arm overall, first person actually make it really appears as it is, and even worse... morrowind had that kind of polycount / edges for an arm, without any mods.
And i don't understand why they would go so "cheap" with polycount of characters, or animations, while games like Age of conan has LESS loading screens and instanced areas as ESO has, and it looks, from a polycount and texture point, two or three generations better than eso, hell, maps i was running around in Eso beta were smaller and had less graphical fidelity than any instanced maps in AOC, just to talk about trees, static objects, and little things all around.
Zenimax has done a pretty lazy job with the game, i don't see where they put the 200 millions, but it was clearly not into the realisation of the game, maybe everything went in the marketting, i'm pissed as i love my elder scrolls game to be well made, and this is clearly not the case.
I would love contact shuddering. Though I have come to expect its absence since very few MMOs actually give you that satisfying feel when you hit an enemy with an ability (Rift was notorious for that). I've been mostly playing in First Person mode, so I haven't felt/seen the bad animations as much. I feel very immersed when in first-person.
I'm going to agree with some users that SWTOR actually had better melee combat than TESO, even though SWTOR was a terrible game.
I do agree that TESO will become another SWTOR and flop early and then go F2P. TESO is actually looking worse than SWTOR, despite a lot of people wondering how that could be possible.
I'm going to agree with some users that SWTOR actually had better melee combat than TESO, even though SWTOR was a terrible game.
I do agree that TESO will become another SWTOR and flop early and then go F2P. TESO is actually looking worse than SWTOR, despite a lot of people wondering how that could be possible.
I dunno content wise they seem a complete flip flop. A lot of people kind liked the initial story experience and then realized the whole world was on rails. TESO seems to complete reverse. It may still go F2P in some manner. But the course of things seems almost diametrically opposite. This doesn't mean the final result will be different though.
I do agree that TESO will become another SWTOR and flop early and then go F2P. TESO is actually looking worse than SWTOR, despite a lot of people wondering how that could be possible.
Only on an mmo gaming forum is selling 2.6 million boxes a flop.
This was a pretty minor thing to me since it's way easier to fix than basic core mechanics of the skill system, which are far better than most games. I don't even remember noticing this as a big deal and my weapons are sword+board and bow.
Completely agree with this, the melee combat was horrible. I mostly played a caster, but did play a Templar with a two handed weapon and it was laughable. I had a massive two handed hammer and my attack drifted across from left to right, then another click drifted it from right to left, showing no impact and no speed. Honestly, if I was in front of the person swinging that thing back and fore, I'd be able to dodge it easily and I'm certainly no Chuck Norris.
I didn't think the melee was bad at all. In fact playing an Assassin with dual weapons I found extremely attractive. To me its the bows that need A LOT of work. I was bored trying that within 2 minutes.
I remember all those people complaining about TSW combat and its animations. IMO this is worse. It reminds me of something i'd see out of an mmo from 2004.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
I just don't understand people. Combat animation? That's really a deal breaker? All I can say is I hope that every person that has vowed not to play this game for reasons xyz actually sticks to that, so maybe the community of this game doesn't end up half disgruntled trolls like a lot of other games have. If you really want an mmo that gives you exactly everything you want without taking into account developer decisions or how other people want to play, then go make it.
Originally posted by Dalanon I just don't understand people. Combat animation? That's really a deal breaker? All I can say is I hope that every person that has vowed not to play this game for reasons xyz actually sticks to that, so maybe the community of this game doesn't end up half disgruntled trolls like a lot of other games have. If you really want an mmo that gives you exactly everything you want without taking into account developer decisions or how other people want to play, then go make it.
Why should I play a game I dont like looking at? Thats unreasonable?
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
TESO. I've been in the beta and playing since mid-2013 and have had a lot of experience playing through the beta, different classes, races, starting areas when given the chance and more. My main problem with this game, and damn is it a big issue for me since it involves the type of character that I play in almost every MMO/RPG is that the melee combat is HORRIBLE. Truly one of the most boring, unengaging experiences I've ever had in a MMO. What's the issue with melee combat? First and foremost the animations are uninteresting and boring, combat feels like a chore when you're doing the same two animations over and over. What truly seals the deal however is the impact of melee attacks, as a geared out dragon knight when I charge forward and swing a massive great-sword at somebody's face and it connects I expect to know it. I want to see them stagger, to make a MOVE, to let me know that they we've been hit. The only thing you get is seeing their HP bar go down. There is no impact, no force behind melee combat. They don't stagger, they don't move, they aren't being thrown around by powerful attacks that would cleave a normal man in half. It's just bad, and it's boring and uninteresting enough for me to not want to play or pay for this game.
Next SWTOR incoming.
That's all I had to see upon entering this thread to know there was no point in even bothering to read this post. Anytime I see stuff like that or "wow clone!" or any of that other garbage - insta ignore
Originally posted by DSWBeef I remember all those people complaining about TSW combat and its animations. IMO this is worse. It reminds me of something i'd see out of an mmo from 2004.
I'll say exactly what i said then. Some of the animations are poor and I don't really care.
I am not sure if it's the worst, but it is certainly unworthy of an expensive Triple AAA MMO.
Indeed, I too felt zero impact behind the melee swings. I could have attacked the air for all it mattered. Horrible indeed. It is something I could live with, if the rest of the game was great. But combat is always something people will do a substantial part of the time in a MMO, so I can't fathom why they made it so amateurish.
The entire combat animations - actually ALL animations - of ESO aren't something you enjoy watching. (Unlike GW2 or Wildstar animations.)
AoC had cool melee. I loved how hacking my axes into some dude made a real THUD. ^^
Well, tbh it is an Elder Scrolls game. ES always had horrible melee combat animations, I think it's tradition.
Seems pointless to continue this debate as your opinion has become fact and mine is less than opinion in your eyes.
Just to reiterate, though; your OPINIONS are NOT FACTS....nor are my opinions fact.
You say it was floaty and that is fact...that is an OPINION.
Nonetheless, it's pointless to continue this conversation with you because you seem to have the 'I'm right and you're wrong no matter what' mentality. Sad really, because I would have enjoyed a healthy debate.
Originally posted by Boreil Its melee combat is better than any of the others out there like it right now, Tera/Raiderz/Neverwinter etc etc .
You must be joking.
I consider it slightly worse then Tera because I am not a fan of long winding animations that root you to the ground. Raiderz and Neverwinter are some of the most fun, engaging, visceral and fast paced action combat in the business. It's as if I am actually playing a Twitch based FPS but with melee. I understand some people like slower combat but slow sucks comparable to fast.
ESO's Combat, especially bow and melee are horribly slow, lack weight, and have rigid non flowing animations. The combat is easily the worse aspect of the game IMO. So much so that it still stands a rather high chance of complete failure because I am not the only one to mention it's horrible combat. With that being said, the Staff animations are pretty decent and about the opnly thing worthy of todays generation of combat animations.
ESO's combat does not root you to the spot like tera and neverwinter. Tera and neverwinter are horrible, horrible games.
I played the game on max settings, i thought it was my computer at some point, but i have a mid to high end machine, i played both a melee and ranged character, and i must say if the melee feels lifeless and show off a lot of bad animations (much worse than what skyrim had in it's 1.0 form, at least you felt some realism and impact against ennemies and a feel of motion capture animation smoothness at times in battles, and ennemies being "hit" with weapon weight / getting knocked down or backing off a little, it had much more combat feedback.)
Bow animations are so lackluster... You can see them from a recent video from force there :
Even with the assets and bow combat animations in morrowind, you wouldn't have so much stuttering / instability / "core" animation frameskip and cheapness/ clunkyness in bow combat animation, and i'm not talking about "fps" there, i'm talking about actual animated frames of how the quality of the character is firing with bow, if melee combat with one and two handed weapons are already suffering from the really bad quality animations assets Zenimax gave them, god... Bows are easily the worst, if you make a direct comparison to how bow behave and is animated in eso with skyrim or even oblivion you would be amazed by the lack of two things :
Animation quality
Stuttering character that seems like he's either on drugs or too nervous, making his bow go up / down, any direction as his animations are clearly not made for first person view, let alone third person, he still looks stiff and as if he had a broom up the ass.
Polycount... i thought we were over 6 edges / polygon side to modelize an arm, but god i thought i was back playing a post 2000 game... just look at the bracers and the shape of the arm overall, first person actually make it really appears as it is, and even worse... morrowind had that kind of polycount / edges for an arm, without any mods.
And i don't understand why they would go so "cheap" with polycount of characters, or animations, while games like Age of conan has LESS loading screens and instanced areas as ESO has, and it looks, from a polycount and texture point, two or three generations better than eso, hell, maps i was running around in Eso beta were smaller and had less graphical fidelity than any instanced maps in AOC, just to talk about trees, static objects, and little things all around.
Zenimax has done a pretty lazy job with the game, i don't see where they put the 200 millions, but it was clearly not into the realisation of the game, maybe everything went in the marketting, i'm pissed as i love my elder scrolls game to be well made, and this is clearly not the case.
Watched the video, honestly didn't see an issue with combat at all. In fact, I liked what I saw, and my track record consists of higher than average expectations.
I must admit reading some of the replies here leaves me asking myself "did we play the same game?".
Worst animations ever? Year 2004 animations?
I played an Orc templar using a 2-handed sword and really enjoyed it. You could feel the momentum of the weapon as you swung it at an enemy, especially noticeable when performing power attacks and the melee combat felt engaging. I also played a dual wielding axe nightblade which i also enjoyed.
I don't know if it's a case of some Race animations being more optimized than others since there obviously are some animation issues judging by the number of people voicing their dislike. That's not to say that I find the animations are without fault, there's always room for adjustments ie. running animations and projectile weapons (bow and staff) felt a little clunky to me.
Originally posted by DSWBeef Gonna have to agree. BUT have you tried the bow combat? Its down right atrocious...
I did. And it didn't bother me. I ran around most of the time with a NB using both bow and DW. I was more concerned with downing groups of 4 or 5 solo in public dungeons, or raining arrows, rooting and knocking back other players in Cyrodiil than what the animations look like.
I play an archer in Skyrim so I'm perfectly aware of its superb bow play. I never expected to have that here and it isn't here but it feels just fine to me.
Well you are the first person I've ever heard who said that archery feels just fine to them in TESO.
I guess regardless of how broken a system is, someone out there will like it.
IMO - archery is the worst aspect of TESO, from the short range, to soft targetting being a complete joke (aim a foot from a target's ankle - and your arrow hits center torso every time - lol)
C'mon.
It's bad.
As opposed to tab target lock on hit almost every single time style gameplay of most every MMO?
Someone has to play devil's advocate here, and it is a legitimate response.
Almost ALL MMOs give you near 100% chance to hit your target. I don't understand your complaint here.
If you don't like the range of bows, the animations, or the 'cast time', that's no problem.
Hating on it because it's easy to aim? Welcome to MMOs, m8.
Comments
Contextually you are wrong but opinionated you are right. Personal opinions do not make the game any more or less bad. Because it's opinions. I have many opinions about Tab Target WoW style combat being bad and based on my opinions I'd be right but on context I'd be wrong because their combat has no weakness other then personal preference. However with ESO, the fact that the game lacks weight, is floaty and has static combat animations is not a matter of opinion, but fact. hence the combat is bad.
Neverwinter and Raiderz combat lacks none of the facts that make them a bad combat game but only opinions that make them so.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Biggest issue I have with Bow animations is you actually have to release the Left Mouse button fire off the arrow. Very hard to know how long you actually have to hold it down to fire off a Power Attack. Hopefully this can be fixed with a Mod but I'd rather it be like all action based reticule combat that keeping the mouse button pressed will continuously fire off power attacks.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
I am not sure if it's the worst, but it is certainly unworthy of an expensive Triple AAA MMO.
Indeed, I too felt zero impact behind the melee swings. I could have attacked the air for all it mattered. Horrible indeed. It is something I could live with, if the rest of the game was great. But combat is always something people will do a substantial part of the time in a MMO, so I can't fathom why they made it so amateurish.
The entire combat animations - actually ALL animations - of ESO aren't something you enjoy watching. (Unlike GW2 or Wildstar animations.)
AoC had cool melee. I loved how hacking my axes into some dude made a real THUD. ^^
Well, tbh it is an Elder Scrolls game. ES always had horrible melee combat animations, I think it's tradition.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I played the game on max settings, i thought it was my computer at some point, but i have a mid to high end machine, i played both a melee and ranged character, and i must say if the melee feels lifeless and show off a lot of bad animations (much worse than what skyrim had in it's 1.0 form, at least you felt some realism and impact against ennemies and a feel of motion capture animation smoothness at times in battles, and ennemies being "hit" with weapon weight / getting knocked down or backing off a little, it had much more combat feedback.)
Bow animations are so lackluster... You can see them from a recent video from force there :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYHczRMlxKw
Even with the assets and bow combat animations in morrowind, you wouldn't have so much stuttering / instability / "core" animation frameskip and cheapness/ clunkyness in bow combat animation, and i'm not talking about "fps" there, i'm talking about actual animated frames of how the quality of the character is firing with bow, if melee combat with one and two handed weapons are already suffering from the really bad quality animations assets Zenimax gave them, god... Bows are easily the worst, if you make a direct comparison to how bow behave and is animated in eso with skyrim or even oblivion you would be amazed by the lack of two things :
Animation quality
Stuttering character that seems like he's either on drugs or too nervous, making his bow go up / down, any direction as his animations are clearly not made for first person view, let alone third person, he still looks stiff and as if he had a broom up the ass.
Polycount... i thought we were over 6 edges / polygon side to modelize an arm, but god i thought i was back playing a post 2000 game... just look at the bracers and the shape of the arm overall, first person actually make it really appears as it is, and even worse... morrowind had that kind of polycount / edges for an arm, without any mods.
And i don't understand why they would go so "cheap" with polycount of characters, or animations, while games like Age of conan has LESS loading screens and instanced areas as ESO has, and it looks, from a polycount and texture point, two or three generations better than eso, hell, maps i was running around in Eso beta were smaller and had less graphical fidelity than any instanced maps in AOC, just to talk about trees, static objects, and little things all around.
Zenimax has done a pretty lazy job with the game, i don't see where they put the 200 millions, but it was clearly not into the realisation of the game, maybe everything went in the marketting, i'm pissed as i love my elder scrolls game to be well made, and this is clearly not the case.
I'm going to agree with some users that SWTOR actually had better melee combat than TESO, even though SWTOR was a terrible game.
I do agree that TESO will become another SWTOR and flop early and then go F2P. TESO is actually looking worse than SWTOR, despite a lot of people wondering how that could be possible.
I dunno content wise they seem a complete flip flop. A lot of people kind liked the initial story experience and then realized the whole world was on rails. TESO seems to complete reverse. It may still go F2P in some manner. But the course of things seems almost diametrically opposite. This doesn't mean the final result will be different though.
Only on an mmo gaming forum is selling 2.6 million boxes a flop.
There Is Always Hope!
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
Not all who wander are lost...
Why should I play a game I dont like looking at? Thats unreasonable?
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
That's all I had to see upon entering this thread to know there was no point in even bothering to read this post. Anytime I see stuff like that or "wow clone!" or any of that other garbage - insta ignore
I'll say exactly what i said then. Some of the animations are poor and I don't really care.
Seems pointless to continue this debate as your opinion has become fact and mine is less than opinion in your eyes.
Just to reiterate, though; your OPINIONS are NOT FACTS....nor are my opinions fact.
You say it was floaty and that is fact...that is an OPINION.
Nonetheless, it's pointless to continue this conversation with you because you seem to have the 'I'm right and you're wrong no matter what' mentality. Sad really, because I would have enjoyed a healthy debate.
ESO's combat does not root you to the spot like tera and neverwinter. Tera and neverwinter are horrible, horrible games.
Watched the video, honestly didn't see an issue with combat at all. In fact, I liked what I saw, and my track record consists of higher than average expectations.
I must admit reading some of the replies here leaves me asking myself "did we play the same game?".
Worst animations ever? Year 2004 animations?
I played an Orc templar using a 2-handed sword and really enjoyed it. You could feel the momentum of the weapon as you swung it at an enemy, especially noticeable when performing power attacks and the melee combat felt engaging. I also played a dual wielding axe nightblade which i also enjoyed.
I don't know if it's a case of some Race animations being more optimized than others since there obviously are some animation issues judging by the number of people voicing their dislike. That's not to say that I find the animations are without fault, there's always room for adjustments ie. running animations and projectile weapons (bow and staff) felt a little clunky to me.
* Waves at Pushkina *
As opposed to tab target lock on hit almost every single time style gameplay of most every MMO?
Someone has to play devil's advocate here, and it is a legitimate response.
Almost ALL MMOs give you near 100% chance to hit your target. I don't understand your complaint here.
If you don't like the range of bows, the animations, or the 'cast time', that's no problem.
Hating on it because it's easy to aim? Welcome to MMOs, m8.