A larger amount of in a quickbar slotted skills does not automatically increase the complexity of a game. It only gives the feeling of having more choices and thus being more flexible. In the end you will always stick to your most favoured and/or effective abilities.
A good example is Dark Age of Camelot (Classic pre ToA):
It is possible to use 3 quickbars with 10 slots each. Makes 30 slots.
Now lets take an Armsman. He has access to ...
16 skills in Blunt
16 skills in Thrust
16 skills in Slash
16 skills in Polearms
16 skills in Two Handed
11 skills in Shields
Assuming he specced 39 Blunt 50 Polearms 42 Shields he has access to 36 skills.
=> Out of 9 Shields skills he will slot only 1 ability. Slam. An Anytime 9sec shield stun style.
=> Out of 16 Crush skills he will slot roundabout 3-4 styles. Taunt, After Parry, After Block + Followup
=> Out of 16 Polearms skills he will slot roundabout 6 styles. Taunt, After Parry + Followup, Backstyle + Followup, Special Style
So, out of the vast amount of 36 skills most players drop over 2/3 of the available skills. The ones that are effective remain on the slots.
This makes 11 styles in Total. Plus adding weapons to quickbars for switching, Sprint and Stick Macros you end up with 15 used quickbar slots. Basically 2 DAoC Qbars with 5 remaining slots that can be filled with special realm abilities. Now imagine that DAoC is an old game that asks players to add abilities such as sprint on your qbar and that does not offer automated skillbar swapping when chaging weapons. If this was possible in DAoC you would end up with ~5 skills.
I think 5 abilities per weapon are enough. It depends on how these skills and weapon switching are used by the player.
more is better as far as i'm concerned. i don't need the 100+ slots that some of the older games allow, but i think 5 makes for very limited options in combat. although i suppose one can make it 10 by doubling up the weapon, which isn't bad.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
There is always the possibility that they could give more slots in expansions, perhaps a third weapon even. Right now though the game is tuned towards 5 slots and an ultimate, and 10 slots and 2 ultimate abilities once you reach level 15. The fact is that abilities on your bar will be used actively since nothing has a cool down. Resource management is the key, not the number of abilities. You can always adjust your abilities before combat to fit your needs.
I'm guessing here, I doubt you will be able to fill out your second weapon slots with unique abilities right away at level 15. It will probably take until level 30, especially if you are morphing current abilities, putting points into armor / racials, crafting, passives, etc. More skill slots are something you could not even make effective use of until late into the game.
I've been saying each weapon and skill line needs 5 more skills for the past month now. There is choice between weapon and class combination, but not much choice in weapon and skill abilities.
My only fear is that I get bored with the 5 abilities per line before I reach 50 while doing AvA only and a daily dungeon or two.
You can always change out your abilities as you level to level them up and not stick to the same skills the entire time, hehehe.
Also, can you fit the same weapon into both weapon slots? Curious if I go dual wielding, I can make a PVP and a PVE build using the same weapons, and merely swap out the skills through the weapon swap feature...
5+R were chosen because it's the best for your fingers without forcing people to switch shortcuts or buy another mouse. 6+ get's annoying since you have to aim and going into mouse mode to click skills isn't ideal because...you have to aim.
Besides the technical aspects, you actually have 12 skills (1 entire old-fashioned skill bar from 1 through = sign). Don't think of it as two separate skill sets because it's in your best interest to have skills that work with each other in both sets. Think of it as 12 skills per character at a time instead of 6 skills per weapon.
Ty for all the feedback here, great discussion indeed
Like I said in the other thread that was just created about this, I think staying true to 5+1 would work best if slotted passives, toggles, summons, ets. still worked and remained active even if they were slotted in the bar that isn't currently being used.
Ty for all the feedback here, great discussion indeed
Like I said in the other thread that was just created about this, I think staying true to 5+1 would work best if slotted passives, toggles, summons, ets. still worked and remained active even if they were slotted in the bar that isn't currently being used.
True passives are always active, they don't take up slots on the bars. It's only toggles and summons that have to be on both bars. And it makes sense. Otherwise somebody could fill a whole bar with toggles and summons, and enjoy the benefits of all of them without ever actually having that bar active. Kind of circumvents the whole point of having two bars separated by the weapon swap.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Comments
A larger amount of in a quickbar slotted skills does not automatically increase the complexity of a game. It only gives the feeling of having more choices and thus being more flexible. In the end you will always stick to your most favoured and/or effective abilities.
A good example is Dark Age of Camelot (Classic pre ToA):
It is possible to use 3 quickbars with 10 slots each. Makes 30 slots.
Now lets take an Armsman. He has access to ...
16 skills in Blunt
16 skills in Thrust
16 skills in Slash
16 skills in Polearms
16 skills in Two Handed
11 skills in Shields
Assuming he specced 39 Blunt 50 Polearms 42 Shields he has access to 36 skills.
=> Out of 9 Shields skills he will slot only 1 ability. Slam. An Anytime 9sec shield stun style.
=> Out of 16 Crush skills he will slot roundabout 3-4 styles. Taunt, After Parry, After Block + Followup
=> Out of 16 Polearms skills he will slot roundabout 6 styles. Taunt, After Parry + Followup, Backstyle + Followup, Special Style
So, out of the vast amount of 36 skills most players drop over 2/3 of the available skills. The ones that are effective remain on the slots.
This makes 11 styles in Total. Plus adding weapons to quickbars for switching, Sprint and Stick Macros you end up with 15 used quickbar slots. Basically 2 DAoC Qbars with 5 remaining slots that can be filled with special realm abilities. Now imagine that DAoC is an old game that asks players to add abilities such as sprint on your qbar and that does not offer automated skillbar swapping when chaging weapons. If this was possible in DAoC you would end up with ~5 skills.
I think 5 abilities per weapon are enough. It depends on how these skills and weapon switching are used by the player.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
I think they should add like 1 or 2 slots for active buffs and 5 active on use skill
For example I use 1 buff 1inviz and 3 active skills quite little.
So what a bout 1 additional or 2 Slots for ACTIVE/Passive BUFFS?
There is always the possibility that they could give more slots in expansions, perhaps a third weapon even. Right now though the game is tuned towards 5 slots and an ultimate, and 10 slots and 2 ultimate abilities once you reach level 15. The fact is that abilities on your bar will be used actively since nothing has a cool down. Resource management is the key, not the number of abilities. You can always adjust your abilities before combat to fit your needs.
I'm guessing here, I doubt you will be able to fill out your second weapon slots with unique abilities right away at level 15. It will probably take until level 30, especially if you are morphing current abilities, putting points into armor / racials, crafting, passives, etc. More skill slots are something you could not even make effective use of until late into the game.
Sounds like everybody wants to change ESO so it no longer looks like the ESO that attracted us in the 1st place. And then leave in 30 days.
I'll never understand why people go to a new game and think "ohh this is different, I like. Now I'm going to make it a clone of what I just left."
You can always change out your abilities as you level to level them up and not stick to the same skills the entire time, hehehe.
Also, can you fit the same weapon into both weapon slots? Curious if I go dual wielding, I can make a PVP and a PVE build using the same weapons, and merely swap out the skills through the weapon swap feature...
Aye, something that doesn't swap when you change weapons like toggles and summons and what not?
I want to be immersed within the gameworld and not worry about using one of my 16/24/36 rows of skills/abiltiy's to choose from.
So yes it's enough atleast in TESO for me.
The thing is, consols can easily handle 8 to 10 buttons like in GW2.
Agreed.
I won't miss having to use alt, ctrl, alt+ctrl, alt+shift, ctrl+shift, alt+ctrl+shift for all my key mapping. 1 through 5 plus R? Plenty for me.
5+R were chosen because it's the best for your fingers without forcing people to switch shortcuts or buy another mouse. 6+ get's annoying since you have to aim and going into mouse mode to click skills isn't ideal because...you have to aim.
Besides the technical aspects, you actually have 12 skills (1 entire old-fashioned skill bar from 1 through = sign). Don't think of it as two separate skill sets because it's in your best interest to have skills that work with each other in both sets. Think of it as 12 skills per character at a time instead of 6 skills per weapon.
Ty for all the feedback here, great discussion indeed
Like I said in the other thread that was just created about this, I think staying true to 5+1 would work best if slotted passives, toggles, summons, ets. still worked and remained active even if they were slotted in the bar that isn't currently being used.
True passives are always active, they don't take up slots on the bars. It's only toggles and summons that have to be on both bars. And it makes sense. Otherwise somebody could fill a whole bar with toggles and summons, and enjoy the benefits of all of them without ever actually having that bar active. Kind of circumvents the whole point of having two bars separated by the weapon swap.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.